This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 12/20/2015 3:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


Especially since those of us living in the northern states have yet to
experience actual winter weather. We've had only a handful of days
where the temps dropped below freezing, maybe two where it got down to
the teens. None at all where it reached zero or below. Our grass is
still green, for pete's sake - and I live in Minnesota.

On 12/22/2015 9:25 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 12/20/2015 3:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


Especially since those of us living in the northern states have yet to
experience actual winter weather. We've had only a handful of days where
the temps dropped below freezing, maybe two where it got down to the
teens. None at all where it reached zero or below. Our grass is still
green, for pete's sake - and I live in Minnesota.


All due to climate change - more of a problem than ISIS.

Moe DeLoughan wrote:
....
Especially since those of us living in the northern states have yet to
experience actual winter weather. We've had only a handful of days
where the temps dropped below freezing, maybe two where it got down to
the teens. None at all where it reached zero or below. Our grass is
still green, for pete's sake - and I live in Minnesota.

at least CA is getting some decent rains the past few
weeks. seeing positive numbers for a change on the
reservoirs inflow/outflow balance.

we've had one snowfall of significance this year so
far and the warmer weather is nice for keeping the
heating bill down (we already keep the heat fairly
cool for the winter anyways -- this is just bonus to
have it not running so often).

a lot of rain though, so i guess it's ok that we
don't have to shovel it and it is safer for driving if
we have to go out.

Christmas is forecast to be above freezing and no snow
on the ground.


songbird

....
at least CA is getting some decent rains the past few
weeks. seeing positive numbers for a change on the
reservoirs inflow/outflow balance.

we've had one snowfall of significance this year so
far and the warmer weather is nice for keeping the
heating bill down (we already keep the heat fairly
cool for the winter anyways -- this is just bonus to
have it not running so often).

a lot of rain though, so i guess it's ok that we
don't have to shovel it and it is safer for driving if
we have to go out.

Christmas is forecast to be above freezing and no snow
on the ground.

Wait until El Nino comes in early 2016! :O
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In article , "frank says...

On 12/22/2015 9:25 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 12/20/2015 3:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


Especially since those of us living in the northern states have yet to
experience actual winter weather. We've had only a handful of days where
the temps dropped below freezing, maybe two where it got down to the
teens. None at all where it reached zero or below. Our grass is still
green, for pete's sake - and I live in Minnesota.


All due to climate change - more of a problem than ISIS.

"Climate change" isn't selling people into slavery. And it's been
changing for longer than humans have existed--the problem now is that
it's changing in a way and at a time that gives a certain political
subgroup an opportunity to try to transfer wealth.

On 12/23/2015 7:02 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , "frank says...

On 12/22/2015 9:25 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 12/20/2015 3:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


Especially since those of us living in the northern states have yet to
experience actual winter weather. We've had only a handful of days where
the temps dropped below freezing, maybe two where it got down to the
teens. None at all where it reached zero or below. Our grass is still
green, for pete's sake - and I live in Minnesota.


All due to climate change - more of a problem than ISIS.

"Climate change" isn't selling people into slavery. And it's been
changing for longer than humans have existed--the problem now is that
it's changing in a way and at a time that gives a certain political
subgroup an opportunity to try to transfer wealth.



My attempt at sarcasm.

I've urged folks to read "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton.

Environmentalists went nuts but that was not the main purpose of the
book but to point out what you have just written.

On 12/20/2015 4:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


Opposite problem here nearer the opposite coast. I've been having insanely
warm temperatures aggravated by excessive rain. I've noted that verbena,
creeping phlox and periwinkle are blooming; color is showing in the buds on
the weeping cherry; hyacinth, daffodils, and crocus are coming up fast.
I've yet to walk out into the woody area near the driveway because of the
thick wet leaves but I fear that the English bluebells are coming up and
they are marginal in my climate under the best of conditions -- if they
come up now they probably won't survive to bloom later.

The new normal is abnormal...

On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 4:56:15 AM UTC-8, Frank wrote:
On 12/23/2015 7:02 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , "frank says...

On 12/22/2015 9:25 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 12/20/2015 3:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


Especially since those of us living in the northern states have yet to
experience actual winter weather. We've had only a handful of days where
the temps dropped below freezing, maybe two where it got down to the
teens. None at all where it reached zero or below. Our grass is still
green, for pete's sake - and I live in Minnesota.


All due to climate change - more of a problem than ISIS.

"Climate change" isn't selling people into slavery. And it's been
changing for longer than humans have existed--the problem now is that
it's changing in a way and at a time that gives a certain political
subgroup an opportunity to try to transfer wealth.



My attempt at sarcasm.

I've urged folks to read "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton.

Environmentalists went nuts but that was not the main purpose of the
book but to point out what you have just written.

I read that dreadful, dreadful, cheap-shot drivel with incredulity; then anger.
Maybe certain parties here are subtle enough to read good intent into evil performance. But the average NYTimes best seller purchaser-type would more likely take the bad stuff for (what passes in their limited cosmos) for reality.

"Environmentalists went nuts" is yet another cheap shot. Bad enough that for the last 35 years, since James Hansen's testimony before Congress, Our Corporate Masters have succeeded in heading off climate reform advocated by thinking people until we have probably passed the fabled 'tipping point'.

But for an influential pop novelist to further distort the limited thinking powers of hoi polloi is unforgivable. I hope Michael Crichton's great-grandchildren, if they are able to survive, realize who helped bring about their fate!

On 12/27/2015 12:13 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote:
On Wednesday, December 23, 2015 at 4:56:15 AM UTC-8, Frank wrote:
On 12/23/2015 7:02 AM, J. Clarke wrote:
In article , "frank says...

On 12/22/2015 9:25 AM, Moe DeLoughan wrote:
On 12/20/2015 3:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


Especially since those of us living in the northern states have yet to
experience actual winter weather. We've had only a handful of days where
the temps dropped below freezing, maybe two where it got down to the
teens. None at all where it reached zero or below. Our grass is still
green, for pete's sake - and I live in Minnesota.


All due to climate change - more of a problem than ISIS.

"Climate change" isn't selling people into slavery. And it's been
changing for longer than humans have existed--the problem now is that
it's changing in a way and at a time that gives a certain political
subgroup an opportunity to try to transfer wealth.



My attempt at sarcasm.

I've urged folks to read "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton.

Environmentalists went nuts but that was not the main purpose of the
book but to point out what you have just written.

I read that dreadful, dreadful, cheap-shot drivel with incredulity; then anger.
Maybe certain parties here are subtle enough to read good intent into evil performance. But the average NYTimes best seller purchaser-type would more likely take the bad stuff for (what passes in their limited cosmos) for reality.

"Environmentalists went nuts" is yet another cheap shot. Bad enough that for the last 35 years, since James Hansen's testimony before Congress, Our Corporate Masters have succeeded in heading off climate reform advocated by thinking people until we have probably passed the fabled 'tipping point'.

But for an influential pop novelist to further distort the limited thinking powers of hoi polloi is unforgivable. I hope Michael Crichton's great-grandchildren, if they are able to survive, realize who helped bring about their fate!


Thought I might get a rise out of you Sara.

Happy New Year

On 12/20/2015 1:08 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
This morning, I saw frost on my neighbors' roofs as late as 8:30am.

"Winter chill" is the number of hous the termperature is at or below
45F. I generally measure from 1 November to 31 March. The average for
my area is about 330 hours. Two years ago, however, we got only 127
hours. Last year it was only 102 hours with the first chill occuring
late on Christmas day.

This year seems to be reverting back to normal. Our first chill was in
mid-November. So far, we have had over 50 hours of chill.

Just because we are having a normally cold winter does not mean there is
no human-induced climate change. "One swallow does not make a summer."
(Aristotle)


December is not completely over yet, but we have had more winter chill
November-December (113 hours) than we had entire last winter
November-March (102 hours). By Friday (New Year Day), we might even
exceed the winter two years ago (127 hours).

Yes, I know that winter does not start in November and is over before
the end of March. But my garden responds to chill that occurs from the
start of November until the end of March.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

David E. Ross wrote:
....
December is not completely over yet, but we have had more winter chill
November-December (113 hours) than we had entire last winter
November-March (102 hours). By Friday (New Year Day), we might even
exceed the winter two years ago (127 hours).

Yes, I know that winter does not start in November and is over before
the end of March. But my garden responds to chill that occurs from the
start of November until the end of March.

how much of the rains of the past few weeks
have been getting to you?

here it has been warmer than normal up until the past
few days when it has started to be winter again.


songbird

On 12/29/2015 8:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...
December is not completely over yet, but we have had more winter chill
November-December (113 hours) than we had entire last winter
November-March (102 hours). By Friday (New Year Day), we might even
exceed the winter two years ago (127 hours).

Yes, I know that winter does not start in November and is over before
the end of March. But my garden responds to chill that occurs from the
start of November until the end of March.

how much of the rains of the past few weeks
have been getting to you?

here it has been warmer than normal up until the past
few days when it has started to be winter again.


songbird


With a rain-year that runs 1 October through 30 September, we have had
1.02 inches so far. Last rain-year, we already had 5.03 inches by this
date.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary

On 12/29/2015 12:03 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 12/29/2015 8:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...
December is not completely over yet, but we have had more winter chill
November-December (113 hours) than we had entire last winter
November-March (102 hours). By Friday (New Year Day), we might even
exceed the winter two years ago (127 hours).

Yes, I know that winter does not start in November and is over before
the end of March. But my garden responds to chill that occurs from the
start of November until the end of March.

how much of the rains of the past few weeks
have been getting to you?

here it has been warmer than normal up until the past
few days when it has started to be winter again.


songbird


With a rain-year that runs 1 October through 30 September, we have had
1.02 inches so far. Last rain-year, we already had 5.03 inches by this
date.


Looking at records, I see here in Delaware we average 43 inches per
year. Averages about the same over the seasons with slightly more in
the summer. I don't think I watered the lawn once this past season.
With a well I have unlimited water but hear of people similar to me
paying maybe $60/month for municipal water which I think is excessive.
Every now and then we have a dry period and those on city water are
asked to conserve and not to water lawns.

On 12/29/2015 12:43 PM, Frank wrote:
On 12/29/2015 12:03 PM, David E. Ross wrote:
On 12/29/2015 8:00 AM, songbird wrote:
David E. Ross wrote:
...
December is not completely over yet, but we have had more winter chill
November-December (113 hours) than we had entire last winter
November-March (102 hours). By Friday (New Year Day), we might even
exceed the winter two years ago (127 hours).

Yes, I know that winter does not start in November and is over before
the end of March. But my garden responds to chill that occurs from the
start of November until the end of March.

how much of the rains of the past few weeks
have been getting to you?

here it has been warmer than normal up until the past
few days when it has started to be winter again.


songbird


With a rain-year that runs 1 October through 30 September, we have had
1.02 inches so far. Last rain-year, we already had 5.03 inches by this
date.


Looking at records, I see here in Delaware we average 43 inches per
year. Averages about the same over the seasons with slightly more in
the summer. I don't think I watered the lawn once this past season.
With a well I have unlimited water but hear of people similar to me
paying maybe $60/month for municipal water which I think is excessive.
Every now and then we have a dry period and those on city water are
asked to conserve and not to water lawns.


Where I live, the soils and subsoils are so highly mineralized that well
water is not suitable even for cattle let alone humans. My monthly
water bill from an independent government water and sewage agency (not a
for-profit water company) averages $99.66.

In this community, housing tracts are too dense for septic systems.
Sewage fees are added to our property tax bill: $534.24 per year.

--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean, see
http://www.rossde.com/garden/climate.html
Gardening diary at http://www.rossde.com/garden/diary