In article , Aaron Baugher
wrote:

animaux writes:

Not only did he threaten people, his 11 year old daughter said
something which put red flags up on the whole block. She asked
another little girl if she ever had sex, or wanted to have sex.
These are 11 year old girls.

You realize, of course, that some schools start sex education in
kindergarten nowadays. That may not be the case in your area, but
it's drastically jumping to conclusions to think an 11-year-old got
such curiosity at home, no matter how weird her family is otherwise.
They're getting bombarded with it from all sides.

If you hate someone because you're the sort of person who is all-round
filled with hate, tacking on "PLUS he rapes his children" is an easy
slander. It's only interesting that "he has a basketball hoop" was the
more important "crime" until people didn't agree, then "he rapes his kids"
was tacked on as secondary to having an unacceptable basketball hoop.

As in "it takes two to tango" it might or might not be true that the given
neighbor is a horrible crazy person; we certainly have no credible
testimony to it being so, but it is at least as likely that HE has crazy
neighbors!

-paggers

Come to think of it, when I was 11 years old, a school friend used to
pass around his mom's trashy romance novels -- the kind with fully
descriptive sex, not the tamer ones that stop at the bedroom door.
Luckily for their morals, most of the kids probably couldn't read yet.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

That's right. Whats being done to your mother now is disgusting. I do recall
discussing that many months back. Our situation is completely different.


On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 14:13:07 GMT, wrote:

There is a big difference because Victoria bought into this suburb KNOWING about the
rules. Nothing hidden, everything was in black and white on paper. Signing on the
dotted line meant agreeing to the rules set out. Most of the rules concern what
goes on it the front and public areas around the house. Ingrid

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 23:01:13 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
But don't you see the irony of the message thread you posted this in? I
guess not.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

"Vox Humana" wrote in message
.. .

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Vox Humana" expounded:
SNIP


I also think that it is preposterous that one would assume that just
because
they bought something and pay taxes that they have an entitlement to do
what
they want. That would be like saying "I paid $40K for my car and pay
license fees (taxes) so I should be able to use it exactly as I want. To
hell with traffic laws."



You all should see some of the arguments right along those line over in
alt.law-enforcment.traffic

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article ,
unya (Purchgdss) wrote:

His junk heap and trailer and b-ball hoop that nobody ever
plays with are going to go. We have a lot of money invested in our
homes and
his house is the first you see when you enter the gates.

No different than the "garden police".
sigh I'm so grateful I don't have a "neighborhood association"/home
nazi's in
my subdivision. I purposely bought where I did *because* there isn't
one.

I agree the attitude is entirely "neighbhood association nazi," a very
fine turn of phrase, & going off-the-deep-end even trying to ban someone's
basketball hoop seems like a satire on what it means to BE a neighborhood
associaton nazi. It's too bad the empowering the powerless results in such
abuses, but abuse of small power seems more often the rule than the
exception.

I wouldn't believe anyone on earth could be that churlish & moronic & get
neighborhood enforcement for their demented perspective on how a neighbor
should live, except a friend of mine bought into one of those
association-controlled hideous housing projects, wherein no one of human
value will ever fit in. She learned the hard way that when you sign away
your property rights to a random bunch of "N.A.N.s," you're gonna get
screwed. The Associaton had even banned planting trees in any of the
homes' back yards (which were enormous back yards). That Association had
seriously banned fences, trees, or gardens, & were die-hards about
enforcing the laws, & during Association meetings two or three crazy-ass
diseased ****s who'd lived there longest ruled the roost. Every home had a
half-acre or more of land out back, but they were banned from using it any
way -- except as a lawn maintained by the Association. This was simply so
the company they hired to mow it wouldn't have to mow around anything or
have any fences in the way.

Homeowners associations are run by volunteer board members who are elected
by the vote of the land owners. I would guess that in the overwhelming
majority of cases few people ever bother to attend meetings or vote. The
people who do have concerns therefore are the ones who attend meeting and
run for office. At our annual meeting only four to six people ever show up
at the meeting and so few people are concerned about how things are run that
people run unopposed for executive offices. It is a gross exaggeration to
suggest that people are being pushed around or are agreeing to objectionable
rules when they don't bother to attend meetings. I bet that if the
homeowners mentioned above were to check their deeds, they would find that
their back yards are really part of the common area, not part of their
limited common area reserved for their private use. In other words, that
property is not theirs and they don't pay taxes on it. As for the comment
about the basketball hoop, I have to ask why people think it is their
birthright to leave their toys out instead of picking them up? We have the
same issue in our neighborhood. If I decided to leave all my gardening
equipment in the driveway or on the lawn, people would see that as rude, but
if someone wants to put up a BB hoop that they use for 4 hours a year, then
they see that as their unalienable right. These same people simply tip the
thing over in their yards when they don't use it. Finally, do you really
think that just because a person decides to live in a neighbor that is
governed by an association that they have "no human value?" To
characterized such neighbors as "hideous housing projects" is questionable.
Do you really believe that up-scale neighborhoods are free of covenants and
restrictions?

On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 09:26:15 -0700, (paghat) wrote:

If you hate someone because you're the sort of person who is all-round
filled with hate, tacking on "PLUS he rapes his children" is an easy
slander. It's only interesting that "he has a basketball hoop" was the
more important "crime" until people didn't agree, then "he rapes his kids"
was tacked on as secondary to having an unacceptable basketball hoop.

You are a mental case.

As in "it takes two to tango" it might or might not be true that the given
neighbor is a horrible crazy person; we certainly have no credible
testimony to it being so, but it is at least as likely that HE has crazy
neighbors!

-paggers

And you're an ass too.

[[[[[APPLAUSE]]]]]]] Paghat, you hit it on the head.
I've seen how some HOAs operate. "Nazi" is a good word for it.

Minteeleaf

paghat wrote:

unya (Purchgdss) wrote:

His junk heap and trailer and b-ball hoop that nobody ever
plays with are going to go. We have a lot of money invested in our homes and
his house is the first you see when you enter the gates.

No different than the "garden police".
sigh I'm so grateful I don't have a "neighborhood association"/home
nazi's in
my subdivision. I purposely bought where I did *because* there isn't one.

I agree the attitude is entirely "neighbhood association nazi," a very
fine turn of phrase, & going off-the-deep-end even trying to ban someone's
basketball hoop seems like a satire on what it means to BE a neighborhood
associaton nazi. It's too bad the empowering the powerless results in such
abuses, but abuse of small power seems more often the rule than the
exception.

I wouldn't believe anyone on earth could be that churlish & moronic & get
neighborhood enforcement for their demented perspective on how a neighbor
should live, except a friend of mine bought into one of those
association-controlled hideous housing projects, wherein no one of human
value will ever fit in.
big snip

These people are welcome to their ugly lives, but give them an ounce of
power, they do all they can to impose their ugly standards on the private
lives of others.

-paghat the ratgirl

Why don't you live in a development where there are people like you? Why move
into a development of people who want to live the way they do, then criticize
them for it? Maybe you like living next to the dump, but nobody in this
development does other than the goober. These are not trailer homes.




On Mon, 02 Jun 2003 17:22:02 -0400, Minteeleaf wrote:

[[[[[APPLAUSE]]]]]]] Paghat, you hit it on the head.
I've seen how some HOAs operate. "Nazi" is a good word for it.

Minteeleaf

paghat wrote:

unya (Purchgdss) wrote:

His junk heap and trailer and b-ball hoop that nobody ever
plays with are going to go. We have a lot of money invested in our homes and
his house is the first you see when you enter the gates.

No different than the "garden police".
sigh I'm so grateful I don't have a "neighborhood association"/home
nazi's in
my subdivision. I purposely bought where I did *because* there isn't one.

I agree the attitude is entirely "neighbhood association nazi," a very
fine turn of phrase, & going off-the-deep-end even trying to ban someone's
basketball hoop seems like a satire on what it means to BE a neighborhood
associaton nazi. It's too bad the empowering the powerless results in such
abuses, but abuse of small power seems more often the rule than the
exception.

I wouldn't believe anyone on earth could be that churlish & moronic & get
neighborhood enforcement for their demented perspective on how a neighbor
should live, except a friend of mine bought into one of those
association-controlled hideous housing projects, wherein no one of human
value will ever fit in.
big snip

These people are welcome to their ugly lives, but give them an ounce of
power, they do all they can to impose their ugly standards on the private
lives of others.

-paghat the ratgirl

there is no permit required for a fence. my mother has owned this land and lived
there for 55 years. It was cow pasture and out in the country at that time fenced by
barbed wire. she now lives on 2 heavily wooded acres off a 700 foot long private
drive. one side of this drive is a shared lot line with the Bitch. My mother also
shares lot lines with 11 other properties and over 55 years has not had any problem
with any other neighbor. My mother also shares her huge wealth of plants with
everyone in the neighborhood. at least 500 feet of this property line on their side
is wild brush which is impassable. my mother is in her 80's. when we returned from
out of state her private road was overrun with the brush scratching cars, difficult
for the snow plow to put the snow anywhere. So my DH and I started whacking the crap
back to the lot line. The Bitch went ape shit nuts. said we were whacking HER brush
on HER property. We had it surveyed and were fine. but to avoid conflict we
slowly, little by little started down the drive cutting back the brush and put up a
fine gauge 3' fence on the lot line so we wouldnt whack her brush. It wasnt a chain
link fence. Now she couldnt see the fence unless she walked up ON my mothers private
drive to see it. This is what earned her the name of "The BITCH". She insisted that
we were whacking on her property, wouldnt accept the survey and said she would sue if
we continued to whack back brush. We offered a deal. We would use her surveyor
(actually we did use her surveyor the first time), if we were wrong we'd move the
fence and pay the guy.. if the fence was on the lot line they'd pay the guy. They
turned that down. then they called the city and forced us to remove the nearly
invisible metal fence which we replaced with a wooden fence that she REALLY hates.
again, she cant see this fence from her property. But at that point my mother became
really alarmed they might REALLY claim part of her drive and asked us to put up a
nice split rail fence across the lower part of the driveway which was open and had
nice sod came up to my mothers asphalt drive. Then they sued claiming adverse
possession cause they been mowing the lawn up to the drive. They lost, but it cost
us 5K. Their lawyer was his BIL (until he quit in disgust with The Bitch) and then
she was ****ing and moaning to neighbors that it cost them 10K.
BTW, never ever does the city SEND OUT a list of the new rules either before they
pass their idiotic laws or after. How would my mother figure that the city had passed
an assinine law forbidding metal fences much less fences that cannot be seen by the
asshole neighbors.
So I didnt add that the Bitch and her husband the ******* stopped my mother on her
private drive and started yelling at her about us cutting the crap. My mother got
into the house and had an asthmatic attack and was hospitalized. We went over to
tell the Bitch and ******* to not do that again, that my mother had asthma, that she
couldnt take confrontations like that. We werent being hostile ... and she just
refused to hear anything we were saying. She kept talking about other things and I
kept trying to tell her about my mothers health and she kept rambling on about some
other shit. Then they sued my mother and two days before the court date my mother
had a heart attack, so stressed by the whole thing that even tho were getting the
lawyers bills and paying them.
Now the Bitch and ******* belong to the local Catholic church where nearly all the
neighbors go. We never talked about any of this with the neighbors (well except my
aunt lives down the hill from us) but eventually they all began asking us what the
hell was going on and we told them. Then the stories began pouring in about the
Bitch and ******* and how they had done the same thing in another community and so
driven their next door neighbor crazy she was outside one night screaming she was
going to kill em at the top of her lungs until the police came and calmed her down.
The neighbors loath this pair of disgusting excuses for humanity and have rallied
around my mother ...
The Bitch and ******* have no idea what is in store for them when we come into
possession of the house. How does 700 feet of plastic Flamingos sound? With
lights. Hitched up to a sled with a Santa in winter. And it will be perfectly
legal. Actually, this is only a small part of what went on and is going on in the
saga of Lot Wars. Ingrid

"Vox Humana" wrote:
In many jurisdictions one has to have a building permit for a fence. In any
case, it always makes sense to check out these things before making
improvements to your property. I wouldn't want to look at a chain link
fence so I would be the one reporting the violation if I were the neighbor.
I find it interesting that your take on this is that the woman who reported
the violation is a "bitch" but your mother who broke the law is a victim.




~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

I would call Child Protective Services, and you can be anonymous, regarding
concerns that sexual abuse is occurring in that house. Otherwise, the
little girl continues to be a victim and will grow up to be .... God knows
what.
Roz
azusa

paghat,
I believe the concern about the basketball hoop was that he used it to
sordidly display his he-man hunting prowess.
Roz
az usa

In article ,
K. Reece wrote:

"Bill Oliver" wrote in message
...
In article FztCa.45945$hd6.9249@fed1read05,
wrote:
Why on earth does he hang dead deer from the basketball hoop? And why
does
he get away with it?
Roz


Probably to age it. You do know, don't you, that the steaks you buy
in the supermarket have been hanging for around 21 days? While
commercial meat houses hang beef in cool temperatures for long
periods, the tradition for game is to hang it at ambient temperature
for shorter periods. The "gamey" taste of meat harvested by hunting
rather than packaged at the supermarket is in large part due to
insufficient ageing.

billo

They might have been in the past but beef is not aged by commercial
processors anymore. It costs too much money in shrinkage. The beef hangs
in the "hot box" for all of 48 hours max before it's cut, packaged and
shipped. After it's package it doesn't hang around all that long before
it's shipped either. There's a lot of it that goes "direct ship" too.
There's a lot of it that is cut and packaged and on a truck in less than 48
hours from the time it walks in the door.

My DH works in a beef packing plant.

Kathy



No kidding. I always heard that beef was aged for 21 days.

billo

In article ,
says...
How does 700 feet of plastic Flamingos sound? With
lights. Hitched up to a sled with a Santa in winter. And it will be perfectly
legal.

East of Beaumont Texas there is a place on I-10 that has
15 foot neon colored palm trees and others that flash
light. That would just about complete the scene for you.
--
Good judgment comes from experience,
and a lot of that comes from bad judgment.


Lar. (to e-mail, get rid of the BUGS!!

paghat wrote:

If you hate someone because you're the sort of person who is all-round
filled with hate, tacking on "PLUS he rapes his children" is an easy
slander. It's only interesting that "he has a basketball hoop" was the
more important "crime" until people didn't agree, then "he rapes his
kids"
was tacked on as secondary to having an unacceptable basketball hoop.


I'd have to agree.

Hanging game from a basketball hoop is an annoyance. It's not even in
the same league as raping his kids. "He rapes his kids" is not something
incidental to hanging game, or any other annoying habit or even all the
annoying habits you can come up with.

If there is *any* credible reason to believe that he may be molesting
his daughter, the right thing to do is not wait until you have "proof".
The right thing to do is report him to the proper authorities
immediately. If he is molesting his children, every day you wait is
another day of hell for them.

If your suspicions are so baseless that you feel reporting it is wrong,
then bringing it up in any forum says more about you than him.
Especially if you're bringing it up only to bolster your arguments that
his annoying habits are worth taking him to court.

For God's sake. Dead game hanging from a basketball hoop is nothing
compared to raping his children, and your primary concern has been your
declining property values. If you think he's raping his kids, REPORT IT.
Don't use it as an "...oh, and I think he also..." to justify your anger
at him for being an annoying neighbor.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

wrote:
There is a big difference because Victoria bought into this suburb
KNOWING about the
rules. Nothing hidden, everything was in black and white on paper.
Signing on the
dotted line meant agreeing to the rules set out.



Let me see if I get this straight. Ignorance of the law is an excuse? Or
the rules your mother broke weren't in black and white on paper? Or if
the local government doesn't have you sign a piece of paper that you've
read and understand all the applicable rules, laws and ordanences, they
shouldn't apply to you.

The only real difference between the two situations is you agree with
Victoria that her neighbor is annoying, and you don't agree with your
mother's neighbor that your mother is annoying. That's perfectly fine.
You're entitled to feel those ways. Just don't expect the rest of us to
be as blind to the irony as you are.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

No different than the "garden police".
sigh I'm so grateful I don't have a "neighborhood association"/home nazi's
in
my subdivision. I purposely bought where I did *because* there isn't one.

I have a basketball hoop for my son who doesn't play with it much anymore,
as
do my neighbors. Also have a swing set at the rear that was smashed by tree
branches in the ice storm. Haven't figured out how to remove the concrete
set
pieces yet and being I'm a single mom, I don't have anyone to help me.

I'm sure there are more than a few violations of the home nazi's at my
house.

Just my 2 cents.........
Christine

Just to give you a clue: The Nazi's killed millions of people. Please use
your
terminology correctly. We have no homeowners or neighborhood association.
There is nothing formal. However, the homes in here are not box houses made
of
tin cans with cellophane windows.

The people in here signed on the line whereby they agreed to certain deed
restrictions and these can and will be enforced by a civil hearing.

I am not a conventional gardener. I have wildflowers everywhere in full
death,
but I leave them so they set and ripen seed. My sidewalk strip has no turf,
but
a hedge of Gaura lindheimerii and datura. I believe in orderly chaos as a
garden style. However, I respect those in here who signed on the dotted line
to
maintain a nicely kept front yard. If that's too hard for you to understand,
I'm sorry.

No, I'm sorry for you. Following this thread and the concerns you express show
your own insecurities and issues.

I was with you on the hanging venison (my own personal opinion), but then you
strayed into all the "transgressions" that you feel "lower your property
value".

As an after thought, you threw in a highly inflammatory comment on incest
because you received criticism for your complaints about unsightly (for you)
basketball hoops, boats, the "trash heap" of his yard, etc. You also show
unfailing elitism by referring to "trailer homes". Obviously the man had
enough money to purchase the house in YOUR neighborhood in the first place.

Instead of "working on gathering information", perhaps that young girl would be
best served by your relating your suspicions to the proper authorities and
allowing THEM to investigate immediately instead of (if this is actually
happening) continuing the silence that needs to be broken.

Seems to me the more important thing (than the way his property affects you) is
the child. Isn't that the better high road than worrying about his "trash
heap"?

"In 50 years, it will not matter
what type of car I drove, the house I lived in, the money I had. What will
matter is that I was important in the life of a child..."

Please recheck your priorities AND motives.


Just my 2 cents.........
Christine