Thanks for all the good help. My progress report:

Yesterday I went to the privately owned green house that I like and bought the
rest of my tomato and pepper plants for this season. While there, I asked about
winter squashes and got a 3.5" pot of Waltham butternut. I hadn't planned on it
but couldn't resist.

Today I dug up the rest of my vegetable garden, put in my soil improvers (around
here that's lots of peat, some top soil and a little composted manure), got the
peppers and tomatoes in the ground and gave some thought as to the best space
for the squash. The zucchini is now in a half whisky barrel in the front. It
is new, has never had anything in it so I'm following the rule about crop
rotation helping to foil the bugs. (I also used the foil-- can't hurt, might
help.) I have a smallish vegetable patch to begin which is happily being taken
over by raspberries and strawberries leaving even less room. It is hard to
rotate under these conditions since there isn't a lot of space to rotate into.

I put a mound in for the butternut. Right now it looks quite funny since it has
4 feet on all sides to grow into but has only this tiny seedling on top. I
think I may poke some beans around it just so I'll have something that grows
fast. I want the instant gratification that beans provide. I figure they'll
have grown, flowered and produced green beans before the squash has gotten too
big and leafy. Then I can just pull them up in time for the squash to sprawl
out.

In the past, I've never paid any attention to what sort of beans I was
planting. I looked in my kitchen cupboard and planted black beans or red chili
beans or whatever I happen to have there. They've always grown. (Whether
they've vined or bushed has always been a surprise.) They've always produced
some green beans. And the price for seeds has always been the most reasonable
around. Is there any reason why I shouldn't continue this practice? Do the
beans sold as seeds produce more or better green beans?

--Lia

On Sat, 31 May 2003 19:17:51 GMT, Julia Altshuler
wrote:

snip
In the past, I've never paid any attention to what sort of beans I was
planting. I looked in my kitchen cupboard and planted black beans or red chili
beans or whatever I happen to have there. They've always grown. (Whether
they've vined or bushed has always been a surprise.) They've always produced
some green beans. And the price for seeds has always been the most reasonable
around. Is there any reason why I shouldn't continue this practice? Do the
beans sold as seeds produce more or better green beans?

I like to plant the varieties advertised as "haricot vert" and harvest
young and tender. OTOH, one really cool thing about gardening is that
there are so many things you can put into the ground and eventually
get edibles from. Supermarket coriander seeds make cilantro plants!
Garlic, sprouting potatoes, a fallen leaf in a commerical greenhouse
may all produce interesting crops. The fun of 'supermarket' gardening
is surprise; the fun of using carefully developed seeds is precise
accomodation to your needs. I expect commercial seeds *do* yield
more certain results. Although where did the supermarket beans come
from? A ditch somewhere? I don't know much about hybridization in
beans. But if you're using dried beans to harvest as green 'uns, let
your taste be your guide. Just don't erect an elaborate bean-climing
support and plant bush beans beneath, as I did once. :-) I mean, the
beans were fine, but I felt awfully silly about the supports.

Yesterday I went to the privately owned green house that I like and bought
the
rest of my tomato and pepper plants for this season. While there, I asked
about
winter squashes and got a 3.5" pot of Waltham butternut. I hadn't planned on
it
but couldn't resist.

Today I dug up the rest of my vegetable garden, put in my soil improvers
(around
here that's lots of peat, some top soil and a little composted manure), got
the
peppers and tomatoes in the ground and gave some thought as to the best space
for the squash. The zucchini is now in a half whisky barrel in the front.
It
is new, has never had anything in it so I'm following the rule about crop
rotation helping to foil the bugs. (I also used the foil-- can't hurt, might
help.) I have a smallish vegetable patch to begin which is happily being
taken
over by raspberries and strawberries leaving even less room. It is hard to
rotate under these conditions since there isn't a lot of space to rotate
into.

I put a mound in for the butternut. Right now it looks quite funny since it
has
4 feet on all sides to grow into but has only this tiny seedling on top. I
think I may poke some beans around it just so I'll have something that grows
fast. I want the instant gratification that beans provide. I figure they'll
have grown, flowered and produced green beans before the squash has gotten
too
big and leafy. Then I can just pull them up in time for the squash to sprawl
out.

In the past, I've never paid any attention to what sort of beans I was
planting. I looked in my kitchen cupboard and planted black beans or red
chili
beans or whatever I happen to have there. They've always grown. (Whether
they've vined or bushed has always been a surprise.) They've always produced
some green beans. And the price for seeds has always been the most
reasonable
around. Is there any reason why I shouldn't continue this practice? Do the
beans sold as seeds produce more or better green beans?

--Lia
Cultivars, specifically designed for snap beans have a meatier pod, while those
used for dried beans typically have a thin pod which quickly gets tough and
stringy. That squash ill probably surprise you. They are usually a shorter
season than for instance the balck turtle bean you mentioned. Expect the squash
to ripe before the turtle beans are ready to be picked as shell beans.

FarmerDill wrote:

Cultivars, specifically designed for snap beans, have a meatier pod, while those
used for dried beans typically have a thin pod which quickly gets tough and
stringy. That squash will probably surprise you. They are usually a shorter
season than for instance the black turtle bean you mentioned. Expect the squash
to ripen before the turtle beans are ready to be picked as shell beans.

This makes a lot of sense. In the past, unless I caught the green beans when
they were very small, they did get tough. This year I'll buy seeds specifically
for green beans. I've never grown beans as shell beans. Usually I plant them
when I have a bit of extra space and want to see something growing there fast.
Green beans are perfect for this. Instant gratification (nearly).

--Lia