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  #16   Report Post  
Old 28-09-2003, 03:42 PM
 
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Default pee in the pile

and in China where they take health care very seriously they installed a communal
toilet so they could heat the "night soil" up sufficiently high degree that it kills
the transmissible diseases before it was used. Ingrid

Roy wrote:
When I was in Korea, we had a row of porta potties set up along the
military base perimeter fence line. There was perhaps 20 of them, and
every day old pappa san would come in and pumpout these porta potties,
and go outside the fence to his rice paddy and crop area and literally
pump all this waste onto his crops. He had some mighty fine looking
crops, however I would certainly not eat them. Its common for 3rd
world countries to use human waste for fertilizer.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
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  #17   Report Post  
Old 28-09-2003, 04:02 PM
 
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While it is true of HIV that it does not appear to be transmissible in urine, other
viruses do indeed survive in the air. For example, cold viruses are typically spread
on door knobs and infectious virus of pox is present in the dried scabs.
Ingrid

Nope, it wouldn't be "little different", it would be NO different. The
virus doesn't live in air. Philip



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.
  #19   Report Post  
Old 28-09-2003, 07:32 PM
Warren
 
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Default pee in the pile

wrote:
He was making a general statement about how absurd it was to pass "do

not urinate
everywhere" laws. I am saying there were very good reasons to pass

these laws. I
still yell at people when I see them hark and gob onto the sidewalks.

That is how to
spread TB. As for YOUR OWN pile to pee in, if there is run off into

the sewers,
which at least in Milwaukee runs off into the lake where we get our

water from.... we
had cows urinating in the cattle yards that lead to cryptosporidia

into the water
supply making 500,000 people sick. Our water treatment is now

supposed to take care
of the crypto, but viruses can be even harder to kill. It is not a

minor thing. It
is the viruses and bacteria we dont know about that are waiting in the

wings, altho
a virus like Hanta is a pretty good indicator. It is aquired from

sweeping up mouse
droppings. Ingrid



One of the *suspected* sources of the cryptosporidia in Milwaukee's
water supply was the fecal matter, not the urine of cows upstream from
the city. Let me repeat, it was a *suspected* source that came up during
the finger-pointing part of the investigation. Given that when the
rivers were tested, and tides and currents calculated, it was ruled out
as the source of the contamination. The more likely source that was
neither proven nor ruled-out was the output of a sewage treatment plant
that is in proximity to the inlet for the one water treatment plant
where crypto was a problem, combined with some unusual currents in Lake
Michigan that winter. But it had nothing to do with urine, cow or human.

And there were not 500,000 sick people. That would have been
approximately half of the customers of the Milwaukee water system. There
also was no explanation found for why this suddenly was a problem, and
was a completely unknown issue for the previous 100 years that the water
department was around. And there were far more cows in the watershed 50
years ago, and less treatment done.

Compared to fecal matter, urine is relatively sterile. Hell, compared to
sweat or tears or mucus or even hair, urine is relatively sterile. Yet
some very popular soil amendments are composted cow, horse and chicken
fecal matter. For some strange reason we have a greater fear of urine
than we do of fecal matter, yet urine is far safer.

And lets not forget the one last thing it takes to spread disease. Not
only does the virus or bacteria need to leave the infected body, and
live in some medium outside the body, it must enter into another body in
order to infect it. There are plenty of people who work on sanitary
sewers (there's an oxymoron for you) that do not catch every illness
going around. And I can assure you that the flow in those sewers never
got hot enough to destroy anything. These sewer workers (and I was one
of them for a year) know enough not to touch their faces with their
gloves, and to make sure no open cuts are exposed. As a matter of fact,
sick leave usage among sewer workers was near the bottom of the list,
along with garbage collectors, with various classifications of office
workers leading the pack. Simple proximity to human waste is apparently
not directly related to incidents of illness.

So am I going to go collect my urine or fecal matter to put in my
compost pile? No. It's enough trouble to carry out food scraps before
they start smelling. I sure don't want to have to come up with both a
collection and transportation method to get the waste from me to the
pile. And given that I live in the suburbs, and my neighbors are in
close proximity, I won't be expelling waste at the compost pile, either.
If I looked out in my yard and saw a transient peeing on my pile, I'd be
more upset at his presence in my yard than about his peeing. And I sure
wouldn't dispose of the compost pile because some pee got into it.

Bottom line: This whole discussion is much ado about nothing. People who
are afraid of urine aren't going to be convinced even when the
inconsistency of their use of cow and horse manure is pointed out. And
people who are inclined to pee on their compost piles aren't going to be
convinced that they're evil spreaders of illness. At the end of the day,
we're all going to be doing the same thing with our pee that we were
doing with it last week.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Adobe Collections now at Holzemville
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/adobestore.html




  #20   Report Post  
Old 28-09-2003, 08:32 PM
no one of importance
 
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Default pee in the pile

Which is why I limited my remarks to HIV alone. I just get tired of the
stupid remarks around a disease that has the potential of destroying entire
nations. Look into what's happened in Africa regarding HIV and the
destruction of a couple of generations of people. One UN ag deputy minister
went into Africa for a meeting with minister from Nigeria, IIRC (it may have
been Zimbabwe) and was met by the country's Minister of Agriculture. This
was highly unusual, the meeting was a low level one. The minister explained
that normally he'd have sent several deputies, but they had all died of
AIDS. He then went on to say that AIDS has so decimated his country's
farmers that famine is pretty well assured.

Well, off my soapbox now,
Philip
wrote in message
...
While it is true of HIV that it does not appear to be transmissible in

urine, other
viruses do indeed survive in the air. For example, cold viruses are

typically spread
on door knobs and infectious virus of pox is present in the dried scabs.
Ingrid

Nope, it wouldn't be "little different", it would be NO different. The
virus doesn't live in air. Philip





  #22   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 12:32 AM
Janet Baraclough
 
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Default pee in the pile

The message
from "Cereoid-UR12-" contains these words:

Of course, none of YOUR friends could possibly have AIDS.


They would all come out and tell everyone if they had the dreaded disease,


Yes, these days they probably would. Among work colleagues and
socially I know several people who are open about their HIV positive or
AIDS status.

Denial and ignorance of disease transmission routes are no protection
at all. It's in all our interest to be properly informed about how and
where AIDS risk occurs; which is not from peeing in compost heaps.

Janet
  #23   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 01:04 AM
paghat
 
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In article , Janet Baraclough
wrote:

The message
from "Cereoid-UR12-" contains these words:

Of course, none of YOUR friends could possibly have AIDS.


They would all come out and tell everyone if they had the dreaded disease,


Yes, these days they probably would. Among work colleagues and
socially I know several people who are open about their HIV positive or
AIDS status.

Denial and ignorance of disease transmission routes are no protection
at all. It's in all our interest to be properly informed about how and
where AIDS risk occurs; which is not from peeing in compost heaps.

Janet


Well, if any people were buried in the compost pile to evade a police
helicopter during the meth lab bust, & the criminals were just laying
under the pile with their soar-encrusted mouths wide open, then when Crazy
Uncle Snookies went out to the pile to take a whizz, he might pass along
something.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/
  #24   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 01:32 AM
David Hare-Scott
 
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Default pee in the pile


wrote in message
...
RIGHT... and so it is. That is how polio and many other diseases

including some of
the hepatitis viruses get passed around. Ingrid

Merl Turkin wrote:
As a kid you are brainwashed into thinking
"pee pee nasty", "pee pee bad", it's total nonsense if you are

healthy.



Ingrid you are mistaken. In most people most of the time urine is
sterile. The only time it is not is if the owner has a urinary tract
infection. The microorganisms that cause many diseases that are
communicable by contact, exchanging bodily fliuids, droplets in sneezes,
etc don't generally cross over from the blood stream to the urine.

See here http://www.engenderhealth.org/ip/disease/dtm2.html

In the case of the UTI the bugs mostly get into the urine and
surrounding tissue from the outside via the urethra not by crossing from
the blood.

In the home situation you are much more likely to exchange microbes with
each other by touching, kissing, breathing etc than contact with the
urine of another. The chance of getting such via urine when you have
not got it by any of the more common methods would be slim indeed.

My estimation is that the risk is vanishingly small.

David


  #25   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 05:31 AM
Zemedelec
 
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Default pee in the pile

For some strange reason we have a greater fear of urine
than we do of fecal matter, yet urine is far safer. BRBR


Actually, if you have nothing better and are out with the Special Forces eating
spiders (or lost in the woods) its a useful topical antiseptic.
zemedelec


  #26   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 05:32 AM
Zemedelec
 
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Default pee in the pile

For some strange reason we have a greater fear of urine
than we do of fecal matter, yet urine is far safer. BRBR


Actually, if you have nothing better and are out with the Special Forces eating
spiders (or lost in the woods) its a useful topical antiseptic.
zemedelec
  #27   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 08:32 AM
JNJ
 
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Default pee in the pile

BTW, being HIV positive and urinating on the pile would be little
different than someone not infected doing the same.

Nope, it wouldn't be "little different", it would be NO different. The
virus doesn't live in air.


You are incorrect. Most individuals who are HIV positive are also on a
cocktail of medications to stay alive. Therefore the urine would not be the
same -- there would be a variety of chemicals present that are not present
in the urine of those not infected. Furthermore, each individual would
likely not have the same biological processes, eating habits, and other
factors that affect urine content. Ergo the statement that the two would be
little different.

Semantics aside, we're saying the same thing -- this aspect of the thread is
purely idiotic.
James



  #28   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 09:42 AM
no one of importance
 
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Default pee in the pile

Agreed. Let's let the AIDS thing drop.

Philip

"JNJ" wrote in message
...
BTW, being HIV positive and urinating on the pile would be little

different than someone not infected doing the same.

Nope, it wouldn't be "little different", it would be NO different. The
virus doesn't live in air.


You are incorrect. Most individuals who are HIV positive are also on a
cocktail of medications to stay alive. Therefore the urine would not be

the
same -- there would be a variety of chemicals present that are not present
in the urine of those not infected. Furthermore, each individual would
likely not have the same biological processes, eating habits, and other
factors that affect urine content. Ergo the statement that the two would

be
little different.

Semantics aside, we're saying the same thing -- this aspect of the thread

is
purely idiotic.
James





  #29   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 11:02 AM
Cereoid-UR12-
 
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Default pee in the pile

Since you are "no one of importance", we can ignore your request.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist like
Reagan did, that's your personal prerogative and don't try to impose it on
anyone else.


no one of importance wrote in message
news:ciRdb.626636$YN5.452308@sccrnsc01...
Agreed. Let's let the AIDS thing drop.

Philip

"JNJ" wrote in message
...
BTW, being HIV positive and urinating on the pile would be little
different than someone not infected doing the same.

Nope, it wouldn't be "little different", it would be NO different.

The
virus doesn't live in air.


You are incorrect. Most individuals who are HIV positive are also on a
cocktail of medications to stay alive. Therefore the urine would not be

the
same -- there would be a variety of chemicals present that are not

present
in the urine of those not infected. Furthermore, each individual would
likely not have the same biological processes, eating habits, and other
factors that affect urine content. Ergo the statement that the two

would
be
little different.

Semantics aside, we're saying the same thing -- this aspect of the

thread
is
purely idiotic.
James







  #30   Report Post  
Old 29-09-2003, 04:32 PM
no one of importance
 
Posts: n/a
Default pee in the pile

OK, maybe you didn't read the whole thread. I was agreeing with James that
the idea of AIDS being passed by urinating in a compost pile was pretty much
stupid and should be dropped.

Philip

"Cereoid-UR12-" wrote in message
...
Since you are "no one of importance", we can ignore your request.

If you want to stick your head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist

like
Reagan did, that's your personal prerogative and don't try to impose it on
anyone else.


no one of importance wrote in message
news:ciRdb.626636$YN5.452308@sccrnsc01...
Agreed. Let's let the AIDS thing drop.

Philip

"JNJ" wrote in message
...
BTW, being HIV positive and urinating on the pile would be little
different than someone not infected doing the same.

Nope, it wouldn't be "little different", it would be NO different.

The
virus doesn't live in air.

You are incorrect. Most individuals who are HIV positive are also on

a
cocktail of medications to stay alive. Therefore the urine would not

be
the
same -- there would be a variety of chemicals present that are not

present
in the urine of those not infected. Furthermore, each individual

would
likely not have the same biological processes, eating habits, and

other
factors that affect urine content. Ergo the statement that the two

would
be
little different.

Semantics aside, we're saying the same thing -- this aspect of the

thread
is
purely idiotic.
James









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