Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater
catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc.

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

I am willing to eat anything that is healthy, preferably
remaining vegetarian (although I am quite willing to have
chickens for eggs, and perhaps a goat for milk.)

This would involve one person living alone, in decent physical
condition, willing to do hard work and learn whatever is needed.

I realise that the yearly food yield will have to be spread out
via preserving, canning, etc.

My "day job" can be done remotely, via wireless Internet
connection, with flexible hours, thus leaving time and
opportunity for extensive gardening/farming, etc.

I do understand the risk of, for example, having a bad year, bad
weather, etc, and so would have money set aside to buy food in
that case. But the plan is to avoid that if at all possible.

I live in New Zealand, with plenty of rain in winter, but also
reasonable sunshine in summer.

So... How many acres of flat, farm-able land will I need?


Thanks in advance!

-V.

--
Guide To DIY Living
http://www.self-reliance.co.nz
(Work in progress)

In misc.survivalism Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote:
Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater
catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc.

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

The answer kind of depends if you'r in the middle of the Amazon, Antarctica,
or Austria.

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 06:56:32 -0800, Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote:

Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying
some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment,
composting toilet, etc, etc.
...

What do you plan to use for fuel ... for heating, cooking, generator,
operating ag equipmnet, and/or etc?

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:56:32 -0800, Down Under On The Bucket Farm
said:

Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater
catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc.

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

I am willing to eat anything that is healthy, preferably
remaining vegetarian (although I am quite willing to have
chickens for eggs, and perhaps a goat for milk.)

This would involve one person living alone, in decent physical
condition, willing to do hard work and learn whatever is needed.

I realise that the yearly food yield will have to be spread out
via preserving, canning, etc.

My "day job" can be done remotely, via wireless Internet
connection, with flexible hours, thus leaving time and
opportunity for extensive gardening/farming, etc.

I do understand the risk of, for example, having a bad year, bad
weather, etc, and so would have money set aside to buy food in
that case. But the plan is to avoid that if at all possible.

I live in New Zealand, with plenty of rain in winter, but also
reasonable sunshine in summer.

So... How many acres of flat, farm-able land will I need?


Thanks in advance!

-V.
Very little if you plan things just right :-)
Google up "Square foot gardening"

"Down Under On The Bucket Farm" wrote in message
...
Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater
catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc.

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

I am willing to eat anything that is healthy, preferably
remaining vegetarian (although I am quite willing to have
chickens for eggs, and perhaps a goat for milk.)

This would involve one person living alone, in decent physical
condition, willing to do hard work and learn whatever is needed.

I realise that the yearly food yield will have to be spread out
via preserving, canning, etc.

My "day job" can be done remotely, via wireless Internet
connection, with flexible hours, thus leaving time and
opportunity for extensive gardening/farming, etc.

I do understand the risk of, for example, having a bad year, bad
weather, etc, and so would have money set aside to buy food in
that case. But the plan is to avoid that if at all possible.

I live in New Zealand, with plenty of rain in winter, but also
reasonable sunshine in summer.

So... How many acres of flat, farm-able land will I need?

I'm not sure acreage is necessary. I have a friend who grows all the fruit
and produce she needs to support her family on a small urban lot. And she
has enough left over to share with a local foodbank.

Grains may be more problematical. If you intend to raise grains as well for
flour, breads, etc., you may very well need some acreage, as the yields are
not as intensive. And any livestock will also need some space. But you
should be able to grow as many veggies and fruits as you need in a
relatively compact area, specially if you rotate crops through the growing
season and have a greenhouse/cold frame to encourage things in cold weather
and for early seeding.


pam - gardengal

Not a question that can be definitively answered on a general basis.

There are WAY too many variables. Soil fertility, length of growing
season, WHAT crops you are intending to grow, etc.

Try getting in touch with whatever the New Zealand government has
established to assist gardeners (in the US the Dept. of Agriculture
nationally and the states individually have a variety of programs).

They also probably have a wealth of free handouts to further help you.

I have a daughter in the area of Napier who seems to do well with two
season gardening, but not on the scale you are contemplating.


On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:56:32 -0800, Down Under On The Bucket Farm
wrote:

Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater
catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc.

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

I am willing to eat anything that is healthy, preferably
remaining vegetarian (although I am quite willing to have
chickens for eggs, and perhaps a goat for milk.)

This would involve one person living alone, in decent physical
condition, willing to do hard work and learn whatever is needed.

I realise that the yearly food yield will have to be spread out
via preserving, canning, etc.

My "day job" can be done remotely, via wireless Internet
connection, with flexible hours, thus leaving time and
opportunity for extensive gardening/farming, etc.

I do understand the risk of, for example, having a bad year, bad
weather, etc, and so would have money set aside to buy food in
that case. But the plan is to avoid that if at all possible.

I live in New Zealand, with plenty of rain in winter, but also
reasonable sunshine in summer.

So... How many acres of flat, farm-able land will I need?


Thanks in advance!

-V.

Everything remains very simple to calculate until you bring the goat into
the formula.. While a human can raise his food in a cultivated plot of
ground, livestock require acres of vegitation to survive.. We all think of a
goat or pig thriving on kitchen scraps. Not nearly enough, especially since
you are going to be only one person and living on a vegetarian diet.

You most likely will have to purchase feed for a few chickens to be
productive. Raising grain requires additional land plus equipment and labor
to just raise it for your livestock.

Also, just a question. How will you maintain an internet connection if you
are off the grid??

Steve

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:56:32 -0800, Down Under On The Bucket Farm
wrote:

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

Entirely or in part? American pioneers often supplemented their
homesteads with things like flour, oil, sugar, and salt. Your posts
indicate a beginning gardner. See how much veg you can harvest and
preserve this year. What are you willing to give up? Meaningful grain
production (and processing) is problematical. Are you prepared to
properly care for goats and chickens? Food, shelter, vet issues? A
vegetarian diet implies quite a selection of foods. This is also a
labor-intensive effort in many ways. 'Spare time' just doesn't cover
it.

--
Remove "nospam" for e-mail
"Down Under On The Bucket Farm" wrote in message
...
Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater
catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc.

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

Depends on the land's fertility and how much work you're willing to do.

I read a pretty good book on the subject that said you could support a
family of 4 on 5 acres.

My vegetable garden measures about 20 feet by 100 feet and even without "too
much" labor we can grow enough lettuce, tomatoes, snow peas, beans, carrots,
onions, cauliflower, sweet potatoes, kale, and Swiss chard to eat fresh, can
and/or freeze and still have some to give to the neighbors and compost. But
the soil has been nurtured almost fanatically for nearly 30 years.

When my husband and I were looking into homesteading, we researched rural Texas. The zone
is 8b and we would raise chickens for eggs, and goats for cheese. In season fruits and
vegetables and winter crops of many different leafy greens, etc...In other words,
continuous produce all year. If we planned to have ten chickens, 8 goats, it was
suggested we have at least 5 acres. Preferably with brush and a glen...with water running
through the property. We were going to use wind power and solar power with energy stores
in banks of batteries designed to use for this process.

This is a huge area and there are no certain amounts of land. You may want to see if
anyone in your region is homesteading and see if there are any cooperatives among them.
That has been a steady component in all the reading I'd done.

Victoria

On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 06:56:32 -0800, Down Under On The Bucket Farm
opined:

Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater
catchment, composting toilet, etc, etc.

One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

I am willing to eat anything that is healthy, preferably
remaining vegetarian (although I am quite willing to have
chickens for eggs, and perhaps a goat for milk.)

This would involve one person living alone, in decent physical
condition, willing to do hard work and learn whatever is needed.

I realise that the yearly food yield will have to be spread out
via preserving, canning, etc.

My "day job" can be done remotely, via wireless Internet
connection, with flexible hours, thus leaving time and
opportunity for extensive gardening/farming, etc.

I do understand the risk of, for example, having a bad year, bad
weather, etc, and so would have money set aside to buy food in
that case. But the plan is to avoid that if at all possible.

I live in New Zealand, with plenty of rain in winter, but also
reasonable sunshine in summer.

So... How many acres of flat, farm-able land will I need?


Thanks in advance!

-V.

There are an awful lot of variable involved here, but in a place like
Maine where I am, I've heard you could grow all the wood you would need
for heat through the winter on 5 acres. I've also heard you could eat
very well if you gardened 5 acres, with a lot of extra to put away or
sell for cash. I think I remember Eliot Coleman saying in one of his
books you could make a decent living growing on as little as 5 acres.

HTH



One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

Lots of people claim lots of things. I would be inclined to do some
personal research before I would just my life to something I saw in a book.
This type of farming is very difficult to sustain and takes a lot of work.
You could well be in deep trouble if you were forced to stop work for a week
or two due to injury, illness, or some other reason. or what if a storm
came through and destroyed your crops? or a horde of grasshoppers? even a
herd of deer could decimate your garden very quickly.

personally I suspect you can do a lot on 5 good acres with a continuous
water source, but I am leery of trusting my life to such a small area.

"WCD" wrote in message
...

There are an awful lot of variable involved here, but in a place like
Maine where I am, I've heard you could grow all the wood you would need
for heat through the winter on 5 acres. I've also heard you could eat
very well if you gardened 5 acres, with a lot of extra to put away or
sell for cash. I think I remember Eliot Coleman saying in one of his
books you could make a decent living growing on as little as 5 acres.

HTH



One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 14:33:07 -0500, WCD wrote:


One issue is the question of how much physical space would be
needed to grow enough food to completely support myself?

There are an awful lot of variable involved here, but in a place like
Maine where I am, I've heard you could grow all the wood you would need
for heat through the winter on 5 acres. I've also heard you could eat
very well if you gardened 5 acres, with a lot of extra to put away or
sell for cash. I think I remember Eliot Coleman saying in one of his
books you could make a decent living growing on as little as 5 acres.

I guess I'm taking "self-sufficiency" too literally. I think it would
be virtually impossible for one person or family to be entirely
self-sufficient. If you include barter or sale of what you have excess
of -- that is, relying on your own land and labor to support you in
whatever way practical -- that's a different story. Reductio ad
absurdum, one could easily be "self-sufficient" if one had an oil well
in the back yard. L-) I expect one could grow enough veg so as not to
have to purchase any extra. But even a vegetarian can't live on canned
tomatoes and green beans alone. The OP mentioned goat(s) and chickens,
which means fodder of some sort and grain, and shelter. Experience
with a 20'x40' veg plot made me *very* aware of how difficult real
farming must be. Between too hot/cold, too much/too little water,
diseases, pests, weeds, and inexplicable failures to grow, I'd rather
not depend on my own efforts to sustain me.

"Ann" wrote in message ...
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 06:56:32 -0800, Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote:

Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to buying
some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment,
composting toilet, etc, etc.
...

What do you plan to use for fuel ... for heating, cooking, generator,
operating ag equipmnet, and/or etc?

A well managed farm will support one person on 1/6 of an acre - but
those are numbers for grains/soybeans only, and a vegetarian person.
If you have farm animals, fruit trees, veggie patch, unfertile soil,
watering problems, your needs will rise accordingly. If you want to be
self-sufficient, there are a number of permaculture solutions that may
help you save labor. Amongst them is having
oaks or chestnuts to limit your need to grow grains. And use favas in
the cold season for extra bulk food plus fertilizing.

I would also plan on a green house of some size as well, maybe not the
biodome , but a large functional one where you hve some environmental
control


"simy1" wrote in message
om...
"Ann" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 06:56:32 -0800, Down Under On The Bucket Farm wrote:

Hi Everybody,

I am working on long-term plans for self-sufficiency, oriented to
buying
some bare land and building an off-grid house, rainwater catchment,
composting toilet, etc, etc.
...

What do you plan to use for fuel ... for heating, cooking, generator,
operating ag equipmnet, and/or etc?

A well managed farm will support one person on 1/6 of an acre - but
those are numbers for grains/soybeans only, and a vegetarian person.
If you have farm animals, fruit trees, veggie patch, unfertile soil,
watering problems, your needs will rise accordingly. If you want to be
self-sufficient, there are a number of permaculture solutions that may
help you save labor. Amongst them is having
oaks or chestnuts to limit your need to grow grains. And use favas in
the cold season for extra bulk food plus fertilizing.