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Freeze Proof Tomato?
Hi, This year I grew some tomatoes in a pot on my patio, and after several hard freezes, after all the other tomatoes had turned to a greenish mush, there was left a single red tomato, with a skin that didn't seem to be susceptible to all the previous freezes. I couldn't really believe that there was an actual tomato which withstood all the freezes we've had here in north texas, but on the vine was a single tomato that seems to be somewhat impervious to the cold. The skin isn't even wrinkled, and it looks like the tomatoes I picked from the plant back in early December before all the freezes started in from time to time. I wonder what to do with it, and think maybe I should save the seeds inside the tomato and try to start a new cold-resistant strain that might prove profitable in some way. What should I do to protect the seeds and start up a batch from those seeds at this point? I can't really tell which original type of tomato it was, since I had three varieties planted in the same pot and I didn't keep track of which plants were which. One was Early Girl, one was Heat Wave, and I can't remember the other type. Is there a good chance that if I keep the seeds and grow some plants from them that all the plants will be more cold resistant than the previous generation? -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Save the seeds and plant them to see what you get is exactly what you should
do. The only way to know if the traits are heritable is to grow plants from the seeds. You will need to cut open the fruit and carefully remove the seeds. It will be a tricky matter removing the seeds from the pulp and drying them but may be worth it if you can grow plants from them whith the traits you suggest. Elroy Willis wrote in message ... Hi, This year I grew some tomatoes in a pot on my patio, and after several hard freezes, after all the other tomatoes had turned to a greenish mush, there was left a single red tomato, with a skin that didn't seem to be susceptible to all the previous freezes. I couldn't really believe that there was an actual tomato which withstood all the freezes we've had here in north texas, but on the vine was a single tomato that seems to be somewhat impervious to the cold. The skin isn't even wrinkled, and it looks like the tomatoes I picked from the plant back in early December before all the freezes started in from time to time. I wonder what to do with it, and think maybe I should save the seeds inside the tomato and try to start a new cold-resistant strain that might prove profitable in some way. What should I do to protect the seeds and start up a batch from those seeds at this point? I can't really tell which original type of tomato it was, since I had three varieties planted in the same pot and I didn't keep track of which plants were which. One was Early Girl, one was Heat Wave, and I can't remember the other type. Is there a good chance that if I keep the seeds and grow some plants from them that all the plants will be more cold resistant than the previous generation? -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
"Cereus-validus" expounded:
You will need to cut open the fruit and carefully remove the seeds. It will be a tricky matter removing the seeds from the pulp and drying them but may be worth it if you can grow plants from them whith the traits you suggest. I watched a show recently about a woman in Maine who saves heirloom tomato seeds. What she does is squeezes the seeds out into canning jars, then fills the jars with water and covers them with cheesecloth. She lets it sit for a week or so, there's a disgusting mold that grows on top; the fermentation cleans the pulp off the seeds. The good seeds drop down to the bottom. She spoons the yuck off the top and pours the seeds out onto cheesecloth and then rinses them and lets them dry. Never tried it myself. YMMV. -- Ann, Gardening in zone 6a Just south of Boston, MA ******************************** |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
"...........Just put the seeds on a sheet of newspaper they will dry off in
a day or so, then either remove them or leave them and sow them on it when you are ready. -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Cereus-validus wrote in rec.gardens
Save the seeds and plant them to see what you get is exactly what you should do. The only way to know if the traits are heritable is to grow plants from the seeds. You will need to cut open the fruit and carefully remove the seeds. It will be a tricky matter removing the seeds from the pulp and drying them but may be worth it if you can grow plants from them whith the traits you suggest. I'm definitely gonna do that. What I'm curious about is what would make the skin on this tomato impervious to cold? We've had at least a dozen freezes around here, some of 'em even in the low 20's. What could make the skin so freeze-proof, and I wonder if the seeds will produce fruit with skin so thick it might be inedible or something. I wonder if a freeze-resistant fruit skin will mean that the leaves will also be more freeze-resistant? I guess I'll have to wait till next winter to find out, but that'll give me something to look forward to. -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Elroy Willis wrote in message . ..
Is there a good chance that if I keep the seeds and grow some plants from them that all the plants will be more cold resistant than the previous generation? To save the seeds, cut open the tomato, spoon out the goo, and put the goo and seeds in a cup of water in a warm place. After fermentation, you will be able to wash the goo off and dry the seeds. Then go ahead and start your tomatoes from seed and see if they produce hardy tomato fruits. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
cross pollination with the cabbage family?????
Elroy Willis wrote: I'm definitely gonna do that. What I'm curious about is what would make the skin on this tomato impervious to cold? We've had at least a dozen freezes around here, some of 'em even in the low 20's. What could make the skin so freeze-proof, and I wonder if the seeds will produce fruit with skin so thick it might be inedible or something. I wonder if a freeze-resistant fruit skin will mean that the leaves will also be more freeze-resistant? I guess I'll have to wait till next winter to find out, but that'll give me something to look forward to. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
cross pollination with the cabbage family?????
Elroy Willis wrote: I'm definitely gonna do that. What I'm curious about is what would make the skin on this tomato impervious to cold? We've had at least a dozen freezes around here, some of 'em even in the low 20's. What could make the skin so freeze-proof, and I wonder if the seeds will produce fruit with skin so thick it might be inedible or something. I wonder if a freeze-resistant fruit skin will mean that the leaves will also be more freeze-resistant? I guess I'll have to wait till next winter to find out, but that'll give me something to look forward to. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
That is botanically impossible, Poi sucker.
wrote in message ... cross pollination with the cabbage family????? Elroy Willis wrote: I'm definitely gonna do that. What I'm curious about is what would make the skin on this tomato impervious to cold? We've had at least a dozen freezes around here, some of 'em even in the low 20's. What could make the skin so freeze-proof, and I wonder if the seeds will produce fruit with skin so thick it might be inedible or something. I wonder if a freeze-resistant fruit skin will mean that the leaves will also be more freeze-resistant? I guess I'll have to wait till next winter to find out, but that'll give me something to look forward to. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Yes! The fermentation process removes the gel around the seed which is
a sprout inhibitor. The fermentation process also is supposed to kill off disease spores or whatever is clinging to the seed. So it's put it in the freezer container or what have you and let them sit around until a bubbly mass of mold appears and then scrape that out of there and dump them into a few layers of cheese cloth, rinse them off to clean them off and then let them dry. Plant the resulting seed however you plant others. If the plants you planted, were hybrids, the resulting offspring from you saved seed could be like one of the two parent plants on either side, or their grandparents. or further back, or it could be like the saved tomato, or one if it's relatives on either side. You may get a good one like the one you saved, it's parents or grandparents... you'll have to then save seed from those and cross back with the parent.. and do that several generations in order to fix the traits you like. Good luck! Janice On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 07:05:59 -0500, Ann wrote: "Cereus-validus" expounded: You will need to cut open the fruit and carefully remove the seeds. It will be a tricky matter removing the seeds from the pulp and drying them but may be worth it if you can grow plants from them whith the traits you suggest. I watched a show recently about a woman in Maine who saves heirloom tomato seeds. What she does is squeezes the seeds out into canning jars, then fills the jars with water and covers them with cheesecloth. She lets it sit for a week or so, there's a disgusting mold that grows on top; the fermentation cleans the pulp off the seeds. The good seeds drop down to the bottom. She spoons the yuck off the top and pours the seeds out onto cheesecloth and then rinses them and lets them dry. Never tried it myself. YMMV. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
"...........You may get a good one like the one you saved, it's parents or
grandparents...you'll have to then save seed from those and cross back with the parent.. and do that several generations in order to fix the traits you like. ......." Sounds good,....BUT........"Cross back to the parent"?. have you forgotten that the parent tomato is dead and gone before you even sow the seed, let alone have it there to cross back to. You just have to have several seasons of selection with the hope that the trait that you want doesn't die out. -- David Hill Abacus nurseries www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
in nature, by pollination probably correct. but there are other ways genes cross
species barriers, transposons AKA jumping genes are one way http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...ansposons.html many of the tricks scientists use in recombinant DNA are found in nature. We use viruses as vectors to carry wanted genes into plants. And some viruses in nature pick up host DNA during replication and cart it out with them on the way out to the next infection. I was joking of course about cross pollination, but dont be so sure about the survivability of cross pollinates. There are precious few in the animal world (Ligers, mules) but plants are not so fussy about how many chromosomes they can have. many are fine with double sets (4N). And needless to say, humans have been busy creating crosses. Ingrid "Cereus-validus" wrote: That is botanically impossible, Poi sucker. wrote in message ... cross pollination with the cabbage family????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
in nature, by pollination probably correct. but there are other ways genes cross
species barriers, transposons AKA jumping genes are one way http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...ansposons.html many of the tricks scientists use in recombinant DNA are found in nature. We use viruses as vectors to carry wanted genes into plants. And some viruses in nature pick up host DNA during replication and cart it out with them on the way out to the next infection. I was joking of course about cross pollination, but dont be so sure about the survivability of cross pollinates. There are precious few in the animal world (Ligers, mules) but plants are not so fussy about how many chromosomes they can have. many are fine with double sets (4N). And needless to say, humans have been busy creating crosses. Ingrid "Cereus-validus" wrote: That is botanically impossible, Poi sucker. wrote in message ... cross pollination with the cabbage family????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
in nature, by pollination probably correct. but there are other ways genes cross
species barriers, transposons AKA jumping genes are one way http://users.rcn.com/jkimball.ma.ult...ansposons.html many of the tricks scientists use in recombinant DNA are found in nature. We use viruses as vectors to carry wanted genes into plants. And some viruses in nature pick up host DNA during replication and cart it out with them on the way out to the next infection. I was joking of course about cross pollination, but dont be so sure about the survivability of cross pollinates. There are precious few in the animal world (Ligers, mules) but plants are not so fussy about how many chromosomes they can have. many are fine with double sets (4N). And needless to say, humans have been busy creating crosses. Ingrid "Cereus-validus" wrote: That is botanically impossible, Poi sucker. wrote in message ... cross pollination with the cabbage family????? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Cereus-validus wrote in rec.gardens
While researching freeze-resistant tomatoes, I ran across several articles about the introduction of cold-water fish genes into tomato plants. Whatever gene(s) that keep certain fish from freezing can be taken out of the fish and introduced into different plants like the tomato, to keep them from freezing, to a certain degree. Some people find such experimentation unacceptable or dangerous, but I find it fascinating, actually. That is botanically impossible, Poi sucker. wrote in message cross pollination with the cabbage family????? Elroy Willis wrote: I'm definitely gonna do that. What I'm curious about is what would make the skin on this tomato impervious to cold? We've had at least a dozen freezes around here, some of 'em even in the low 20's. What could make the skin so freeze-proof, and I wonder if the seeds will produce fruit with skin so thick it might be inedible or something. I wonder if a freeze-resistant fruit skin will mean that the leaves will also be more freeze-resistant? I guess I'll have to wait till next winter to find out, but that'll give me something to look forward to. -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
David Hill wrote in rec.gardens
"...........Just put the seeds on a sheet of newspaper they will dry off in a day or so, then either remove them or leave them and sow them on it when you are ready. That approach sounds a lot easier than all the fermenting and cheesecloth stuff. -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Cereus-validus wrote in rec.gardens
While researching freeze-resistant tomatoes, I ran across several articles about the introduction of cold-water fish genes into tomato plants. Whatever gene(s) that keep certain fish from freezing can be taken out of the fish and introduced into different plants like the tomato, to keep them from freezing, to a certain degree. Some people find such experimentation unacceptable or dangerous, but I find it fascinating, actually. That is botanically impossible, Poi sucker. wrote in message cross pollination with the cabbage family????? Elroy Willis wrote: I'm definitely gonna do that. What I'm curious about is what would make the skin on this tomato impervious to cold? We've had at least a dozen freezes around here, some of 'em even in the low 20's. What could make the skin so freeze-proof, and I wonder if the seeds will produce fruit with skin so thick it might be inedible or something. I wonder if a freeze-resistant fruit skin will mean that the leaves will also be more freeze-resistant? I guess I'll have to wait till next winter to find out, but that'll give me something to look forward to. -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
David Hill wrote in rec.gardens
"...........Just put the seeds on a sheet of newspaper they will dry off in a day or so, then either remove them or leave them and sow them on it when you are ready. That approach sounds a lot easier than all the fermenting and cheesecloth stuff. -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
David Hill wrote in rec.gardens
"...........Just put the seeds on a sheet of newspaper they will dry off in a day or so, then either remove them or leave them and sow them on it when you are ready. That approach sounds a lot easier than all the fermenting and cheesecloth stuff. -- Elroy Willis EAP Chief Editor and Newshound http://web2.airmail.net/~elo/news |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Elroy Willis expounded:
That approach sounds a lot easier than all the fermenting and cheesecloth stuff. It may be easier but not as effective. The purpose is to get rid of the pulp, which is a bit of a germination inhibitor. -- Ann, Gardening in zone 6a Just south of Boston, MA ******************************** |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Elroy Willis expounded:
That approach sounds a lot easier than all the fermenting and cheesecloth stuff. It may be easier but not as effective. The purpose is to get rid of the pulp, which is a bit of a germination inhibitor. -- Ann, Gardening in zone 6a Just south of Boston, MA ******************************** |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 12:24:14 -0000, "David Hill"
wrote: "...........You may get a good one like the one you saved, it's parents or grandparents...you'll have to then save seed from those and cross back with the parent.. and do that several generations in order to fix the traits you like. ......." Sounds good,....BUT........"Cross back to the parent"?. have you forgotten that the parent tomato is dead and gone before you even sow the seed, let alone have it there to cross back to. You just have to have several seasons of selection with the hope that the trait that you want doesn't die out. Ok, I probably should have said parent Stock.. I was sleep typing. ;-) You save seed from the "Freeze Proof Tomato" and plant some of that seed (T1) and get an assortment of plants with varying qualities. You choose the plant that has the qualities you want in fruit and plant. Save seed from it (T2) You plant the (T2) seed and get a bunch of plants and you choose the best plant and fruit type from the resulting offspring. In the mean time you plant some more (T1) seed. Choose a plant that has the qualities you want. Cross the chosen offspring from (T2) back to the (T1) offspring. You can also choose to plant T1 seed and get an assortment of plants with varying fruits, you can choose several plants of the sort you want from that very first planting of saved seeds and choose immature blossoms on those plants and isolate them from one another, and then choose which plant is going to provide pollen and which shall be the receptor.. on the receptor, remove all the male plant parts so they cannot self pollinate. When the pollen ripens on the other flower, pollinate the female and again isolate and mark that flower, so you can save seed from the resultant fruits. I guess there is line breeding and crossing back and all sorts of techniques used to fix traits, but it all starts with a "parent stock"... and that's what I meant, I'm certainly not a plant breeder, but I'd like to learn more about it, and intend to by a book .. can't remember the exact title at the moment, I have a lousy memory, Breed your own vegetable varieties, or plant varieties, something like that. It's always been of interest to me, just haven't been able to pursue it yet. Janice |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:51:57 GMT, Elroy Willis
wrote: David Hill wrote in rec.gardens "...........Just put the seeds on a sheet of newspaper they will dry off in a day or so, then either remove them or leave them and sow them on it when you are ready. That approach sounds a lot easier than all the fermenting and cheesecloth stuff. yup but you don't get rid of the sprout inhibitor on the seed, nor the advantage of killing off any disease spores etc. Tomatoes are pretty stubborn growers though, so you might get them to grow anyway. ;-) When I saw how all the places were saying to save the seed, I went Gross! But every place I've seen instructions for saving the seed have said to do the fermentation process. *sigh* Janice |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
Elroy Willis wrote in
: I'm definitely gonna do that. What I'm curious about is what would make the skin on this tomato impervious to cold? We've had at least a dozen freezes around here, some of 'em even in the low 20's. maybe your tomato plant is descended from some mutant Nasa tomatoes http://spaceresearch.nasa.gov/resear...ros/seeds.html |
Freeze Proof Tomato?
yes, there are all kinds of cross kingdom recombinant DNA experiments going on AND
released. GMO .. genetically modified organisms are in most foods now in the US, but unlike Europe, there is no requirement for labeling that they are or contain GMO foods. The best documentary I have seen is Harvest of Fear http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/harvest/ from PBS. I use it in my class. there are many uses for recombinant DNA where to benefits vastly outweigh the costs. Modifying foods cross species or kingdoms is simply being done to put more money in the pockets of a few industrial food producers with frankly enormous risk to the environment and possibility of driving species to extinction. One example is producing GM yams (a staple food in Africa) that is resistant to a common pathogen resulting in stunting. All this sounds nice except that the key nutrition for developing brains in humans has always been high protein foods, not starchy carbohydrates. This appears to be the "missing link" in human evolution as well. After outright malnutrition the worst cause of nutritional retardation is protein deficient diets. So the GM yams makes it possible for everyone to have lots of yams... all genetically identical and along comes another pathogen like the one hit potatoes in Ireland and the whole crop bellies up and then everyone starves. The reason the people are in trouble with their current yams is not enough genetically diverse crops in the first place. they are basically practicing monoculture rather than having many different kinds of plants so those that they can afford to lose most of one crop without facing starvation. The worst problem in Africa (as it has always been everywhere else) is war and dislocation. potatoes were the primary starch and storage crop in my grandmothers village in Yugoslavia. But my grandfather traveled all over Europe and brought different varieties of potatoes back to the village and altho some potato varieties might have succumbed to pathogens, not all did. GMO crops are monoculture. If GMO crops have any reproductive edge they WILL drive the more highly diverse crops to extinction and then the monoculture will succumb to the first lethal pathogen that comes along. Ingrid Elroy Willis wrote: While researching freeze-resistant tomatoes, I ran across several articles about the introduction of cold-water fish genes into tomato plants. Whatever gene(s) that keep certain fish from freezing can be taken out of the fish and introduced into different plants like the tomato, to keep them from freezing, to a certain degree. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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