Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance.

Regards,
Mike D.

Mike Davis wrote:

...My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance...



(1) an outside dog that roams your property will do a lot to keep the
woodchucks away. Of course, that means the problem is transferred to
your neighbors.

(2) in most states it is illegal to transport wild animals, so toddling
down the road with them fits into that category. Further, it is
inconsiderate of the people who live "down the road". Unless you're
really out in the boonies (in which case nobody will see what you're
doing), there will be people living within woodchuck range of your
release point. The only legal actions you can take after live trapping
the woodchuck are (a) releasing them again (b) dispatching them by some
means or (c) turning them over to your local animal control officer (who
will probably dispatch them for a fee). If you have a farmer in your
area who is used to dealing with woodchucks, he may be willing to
dispatch the woodchuck for a smaller fee than the animal control officer
(since it's in his interest to keep the woodchuck population down).
However ASK him before bringing him a woodchuck.

Do not feel bad about dispatching a woodchuck. They are not a rare,
threatened or endangered species. They do provide food for coyotes.
(Also wildcats in some areas).

(3) woodchucks do not like to be separated from the safety of their
burrow. If you place a fence between them and their burrow it will help.
They can climb, or burrow under the fence, but it's an obstacle. If you
plant something outside the fence that will satisfy them, they are
likely to stay out of your garden. They are partial to broadleafed
plants such as clover, which (in my opinion) looks good in lawns anyway.
I have even had luck with a fence that doesn't enclose the garden, just
goes between the woods and the garden to make it difficult to return to
their burrow. However, you have to show your presence in the garden
fairly regularly (2-3 times a day). If the garden is empty most of the
time, the woodchuck may be tempted to take chances.

You will have to be vigilant about the possibility of the woodchuck
burrowing into the garden, giving him a quick escape route. If this
happens, you will have to find the other entrance to the burrow as well
as the one in your garden. The sulfur smoke bombs will keep them out of
the burrow for a couple of weeks, but don't get the little ones in the
hardware sto those are designed for small rodents such as voles and
are inadequate for a woodchuck. Agway (and probably others) sells a
woodchuck-sized smoke bomb. It may (probably will) require several
applications to be fully effective.

In my experience, a burrow that is just filled in will be re-opened in a
short time, even if you smooth out the ground around it. They must leave
a scent at the hole so they can tell where it was. However, if you
really dig up the soil around the hole to a depth of 8" or more while
filling it in, they won't find it and re-open it.

Mike Davis wrote:

...My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance...



(1) an outside dog that roams your property will do a lot to keep the
woodchucks away. Of course, that means the problem is transferred to
your neighbors.

(2) in most states it is illegal to transport wild animals, so toddling
down the road with them fits into that category. Further, it is
inconsiderate of the people who live "down the road". Unless you're
really out in the boonies (in which case nobody will see what you're
doing), there will be people living within woodchuck range of your
release point. The only legal actions you can take after live trapping
the woodchuck are (a) releasing them again (b) dispatching them by some
means or (c) turning them over to your local animal control officer (who
will probably dispatch them for a fee). If you have a farmer in your
area who is used to dealing with woodchucks, he may be willing to
dispatch the woodchuck for a smaller fee than the animal control officer
(since it's in his interest to keep the woodchuck population down).
However ASK him before bringing him a woodchuck.

Do not feel bad about dispatching a woodchuck. They are not a rare,
threatened or endangered species. They do provide food for coyotes.
(Also wildcats in some areas).

(3) woodchucks do not like to be separated from the safety of their
burrow. If you place a fence between them and their burrow it will help.
They can climb, or burrow under the fence, but it's an obstacle. If you
plant something outside the fence that will satisfy them, they are
likely to stay out of your garden. They are partial to broadleafed
plants such as clover, which (in my opinion) looks good in lawns anyway.
I have even had luck with a fence that doesn't enclose the garden, just
goes between the woods and the garden to make it difficult to return to
their burrow. However, you have to show your presence in the garden
fairly regularly (2-3 times a day). If the garden is empty most of the
time, the woodchuck may be tempted to take chances.

You will have to be vigilant about the possibility of the woodchuck
burrowing into the garden, giving him a quick escape route. If this
happens, you will have to find the other entrance to the burrow as well
as the one in your garden. The sulfur smoke bombs will keep them out of
the burrow for a couple of weeks, but don't get the little ones in the
hardware sto those are designed for small rodents such as voles and
are inadequate for a woodchuck. Agway (and probably others) sells a
woodchuck-sized smoke bomb. It may (probably will) require several
applications to be fully effective.

In my experience, a burrow that is just filled in will be re-opened in a
short time, even if you smooth out the ground around it. They must leave
a scent at the hole so they can tell where it was. However, if you
really dig up the soil around the hole to a depth of 8" or more while
filling it in, they won't find it and re-open it.

A well placed shot in the head will solve a ground hog problem
imediately. To tell the truth, groundhogs are about the only thing I
miss from when I used to live up north, beside shoo fly pie and Genese
Cream Ale..........They do make excellent table fare. We just do not
have any in this neck of the woods, but I guess our substitute of a
hog is an Armadillo..........Tell you what, I'll catch some dillo's
and swap you out 2 dillo's for 1 groundhog. I'll take having a ground
hog problem over a dillo for the mostpart. Dillos are continually
digging all around, usually only have one burrough and its usually out
of the beaten path and isolated, but at night they will wreck a garden
or lawn looking for insects. Hogs at least make a place and utilize
it, and not continulaly dig theplace up, but they are kind of
indiscriminate on where they build a burrough at, makes no difference
if its in the middle of a hay field or your yard.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

On Mon, 8 Mar 2004 11:46:10 -0500, "Mike Davis"
wrote:

Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance.

Regards,
Mike D.



I beat one over the head with a shovel one time, but that did not stop
him from raising a family. I found out that groundhogs can (and will)
climb a chicken wire fence. What stopped them was placing an electric
wire around the garden one at 6", another at 3 feet from the ground,
and that keeps the deer out too.

"Mike Davis" wrote in message
newsr13c.33608$UU.15729@lakeread01...
Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former
garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and
toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance.

You have to kill them. Sorry to say for you all animal lovers, but they will
toddle right back. We dealt with them for 12 years in Western NJ. I killed
at least 50 of them in that time but they kept on coming back from
somewhere. Good luck.

In article , "Ricky"
wrote:

"Mike Davis" wrote in message
newsr13c.33608$UU.15729@lakeread01...
Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former
garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and
toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance.

You have to kill them. Sorry to say for you all animal lovers, but they will
toddle right back. We dealt with them for 12 years in Western NJ. I killed
at least 50 of them in that time but they kept on coming back from
somewhere. Good luck.

Unfortunately this is indeed often the only option. IF the groundhog is
legitimately causing real harm to the garden, live capture for release
elsewhere is often illegal, & elsetimes more cruel than a quick humane
death. I would recommend live capture & turning the animal over to animal
control -- they will likely kill it humanely. Scissor or jaw traps are
cruel & in some states illegal.

SOME species of marmots/groundhogs are protected, & harrassing them could
get you heavily fined, potentially even imprisoned.

And depending on what one is growing, many people manage to live with
groundhogs, so make sure they are REALLY causing damage & don't kill them
merely because they're there.

[REPOST OF GROUNDHOG & PRAIRIE DOG POST]

I lived with a prairie dog for a while. His name was Woodrow. Though they
are not notable climbers, he figured out a bag of peanuts, from which he
received very occasional treats, was kept on the top of a seven-foot-tall
shelf. He managed to get up there one day when I was letting him roam free
in what I thought was a "prairie dog proofed" room, & by the time I came
back in the room, he'd eaten the whole bag. Which gave him one hell of a
stomach ache & diarrhea & cost a vet bill.

This was my then-roommate's pet but as she was gone a
lot, I was his defacto caretaker. He was a TERRIBLE pet for
destructiveness & odor & when my roommate moved out I was SO relieved not
to have Woodrow around anymore. I lived with him for nearly two years
though & have as many good memories of his charming behavior, as of bad
memories of stuff he ruined & messes he made & visitors who wanted to know
what that smell was.

Anyhow, in gardens, moles are insectivorous, usually cause no real harm,
are actually beneficial, & it bothers me people are so insistent on
killing them. But groundhogs are vegetarians & will devour many things in
the garden. I would almost certainly attempt to accomodate a woodchuck or
the like even so. I mean, if I can forgive a prairie dog for chewing up a
rare book, I'm sure I could forgive a woodchuck for eating the flower
buds. But where I presently live I'm not likely to be tested on that
score (no groundhogs in this town).

As a big rodent fan myself, I've read several articles about people who've
befriended their garden woodchuck with quite a lot of success. They tend
to impact gardens a lot less if you feed them at predictable times of the
day, as they're lazy buggers at heart. Of course, having ONE semi-tame
woodchuck might become pretty easy, but if it became a happy extended
family, that could be big trouble. Here are a couple Pet
Groundhog/Woodchuck websites:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall.../bob_lutz.html
There are lots of links at that site. Plus this groundhog lovers website:
http://www.hoghaven.com/
which has a photo section to die for, cute cute cute.

-paghat the ratgirl

PS: The following is quoted verbatim from a "Woodchucks in the Garden"
fact sheet including humane control measures:

The groundhog, or woodchuck, is a large rodent, about two feet long,
including its bushy tail. It has a compact, chunky body supported by
short, strong legs. The forefeet, which have long, curved claws, are well
adapted for digging. The coarse fur is gray on the upper body and
yellowish-orange on the underside.

Groundhogs prefer to live in open fields, woodlands and hedgerows. They
dig extensive burrows with two or more entrances. These burrows are
commonly located in fields, pastures, along fence rows, stone walls,
roadsides, and even at the bases of trees. Groundhogs feed on a variety of
vegetables, grasses and legumes. Some favorite foods are peas, beans,
carrot tops, alfalfa, clover and grasses. Early morning and evening hours
are the groundhog's preferred feeding times.

Control: Needless to say, groundhogs living near vegetable gardens and
other choice plantings can be real pests. Control measures are limited in
residential and suburban areas. Wire fencing discourages them sometimes.
Live-trapping may also be effective; bait the trap with apple slices or
vegetables such as carrots or ears of corn. Another method is flushing the
animals from their burrows, then filling the entrances with large rocks.
Admittedly, none of these solutions will take care of the problem
permanently, but they may reduce the damage groundhogs do.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article , "Ricky"
wrote:

"Mike Davis" wrote in message
newsr13c.33608$UU.15729@lakeread01...
Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former
garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and
toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance.

You have to kill them. Sorry to say for you all animal lovers, but they will
toddle right back. We dealt with them for 12 years in Western NJ. I killed
at least 50 of them in that time but they kept on coming back from
somewhere. Good luck.

Unfortunately this is indeed often the only option. IF the groundhog is
legitimately causing real harm to the garden, live capture for release
elsewhere is often illegal, & elsetimes more cruel than a quick humane
death. I would recommend live capture & turning the animal over to animal
control -- they will likely kill it humanely. Scissor or jaw traps are
cruel & in some states illegal.

SOME species of marmots/groundhogs are protected, & harrassing them could
get you heavily fined, potentially even imprisoned.

And depending on what one is growing, many people manage to live with
groundhogs, so make sure they are REALLY causing damage & don't kill them
merely because they're there.

[REPOST OF GROUNDHOG & PRAIRIE DOG POST]

I lived with a prairie dog for a while. His name was Woodrow. Though they
are not notable climbers, he figured out a bag of peanuts, from which he
received very occasional treats, was kept on the top of a seven-foot-tall
shelf. He managed to get up there one day when I was letting him roam free
in what I thought was a "prairie dog proofed" room, & by the time I came
back in the room, he'd eaten the whole bag. Which gave him one hell of a
stomach ache & diarrhea & cost a vet bill.

This was my then-roommate's pet but as she was gone a
lot, I was his defacto caretaker. He was a TERRIBLE pet for
destructiveness & odor & when my roommate moved out I was SO relieved not
to have Woodrow around anymore. I lived with him for nearly two years
though & have as many good memories of his charming behavior, as of bad
memories of stuff he ruined & messes he made & visitors who wanted to know
what that smell was.

Anyhow, in gardens, moles are insectivorous, usually cause no real harm,
are actually beneficial, & it bothers me people are so insistent on
killing them. But groundhogs are vegetarians & will devour many things in
the garden. I would almost certainly attempt to accomodate a woodchuck or
the like even so. I mean, if I can forgive a prairie dog for chewing up a
rare book, I'm sure I could forgive a woodchuck for eating the flower
buds. But where I presently live I'm not likely to be tested on that
score (no groundhogs in this town).

As a big rodent fan myself, I've read several articles about people who've
befriended their garden woodchuck with quite a lot of success. They tend
to impact gardens a lot less if you feed them at predictable times of the
day, as they're lazy buggers at heart. Of course, having ONE semi-tame
woodchuck might become pretty easy, but if it became a happy extended
family, that could be big trouble. Here are a couple Pet
Groundhog/Woodchuck websites:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall.../bob_lutz.html
There are lots of links at that site. Plus this groundhog lovers website:
http://www.hoghaven.com/
which has a photo section to die for, cute cute cute.

-paghat the ratgirl

PS: The following is quoted verbatim from a "Woodchucks in the Garden"
fact sheet including humane control measures:

The groundhog, or woodchuck, is a large rodent, about two feet long,
including its bushy tail. It has a compact, chunky body supported by
short, strong legs. The forefeet, which have long, curved claws, are well
adapted for digging. The coarse fur is gray on the upper body and
yellowish-orange on the underside.

Groundhogs prefer to live in open fields, woodlands and hedgerows. They
dig extensive burrows with two or more entrances. These burrows are
commonly located in fields, pastures, along fence rows, stone walls,
roadsides, and even at the bases of trees. Groundhogs feed on a variety of
vegetables, grasses and legumes. Some favorite foods are peas, beans,
carrot tops, alfalfa, clover and grasses. Early morning and evening hours
are the groundhog's preferred feeding times.

Control: Needless to say, groundhogs living near vegetable gardens and
other choice plantings can be real pests. Control measures are limited in
residential and suburban areas. Wire fencing discourages them sometimes.
Live-trapping may also be effective; bait the trap with apple slices or
vegetables such as carrots or ears of corn. Another method is flushing the
animals from their burrows, then filling the entrances with large rocks.
Admittedly, none of these solutions will take care of the problem
permanently, but they may reduce the damage groundhogs do.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article , "Ricky"
wrote:

"Mike Davis" wrote in message
newsr13c.33608$UU.15729@lakeread01...
Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former
garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and
toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance.

You have to kill them. Sorry to say for you all animal lovers, but they will
toddle right back. We dealt with them for 12 years in Western NJ. I killed
at least 50 of them in that time but they kept on coming back from
somewhere. Good luck.

Unfortunately this is indeed often the only option. IF the groundhog is
legitimately causing real harm to the garden, live capture for release
elsewhere is often illegal, & elsetimes more cruel than a quick humane
death. I would recommend live capture & turning the animal over to animal
control -- they will likely kill it humanely. Scissor or jaw traps are
cruel & in some states illegal.

SOME species of marmots/groundhogs are protected, & harrassing them could
get you heavily fined, potentially even imprisoned.

And depending on what one is growing, many people manage to live with
groundhogs, so make sure they are REALLY causing damage & don't kill them
merely because they're there.

[REPOST OF GROUNDHOG & PRAIRIE DOG POST]

I lived with a prairie dog for a while. His name was Woodrow. Though they
are not notable climbers, he figured out a bag of peanuts, from which he
received very occasional treats, was kept on the top of a seven-foot-tall
shelf. He managed to get up there one day when I was letting him roam free
in what I thought was a "prairie dog proofed" room, & by the time I came
back in the room, he'd eaten the whole bag. Which gave him one hell of a
stomach ache & diarrhea & cost a vet bill.

This was my then-roommate's pet but as she was gone a
lot, I was his defacto caretaker. He was a TERRIBLE pet for
destructiveness & odor & when my roommate moved out I was SO relieved not
to have Woodrow around anymore. I lived with him for nearly two years
though & have as many good memories of his charming behavior, as of bad
memories of stuff he ruined & messes he made & visitors who wanted to know
what that smell was.

Anyhow, in gardens, moles are insectivorous, usually cause no real harm,
are actually beneficial, & it bothers me people are so insistent on
killing them. But groundhogs are vegetarians & will devour many things in
the garden. I would almost certainly attempt to accomodate a woodchuck or
the like even so. I mean, if I can forgive a prairie dog for chewing up a
rare book, I'm sure I could forgive a woodchuck for eating the flower
buds. But where I presently live I'm not likely to be tested on that
score (no groundhogs in this town).

As a big rodent fan myself, I've read several articles about people who've
befriended their garden woodchuck with quite a lot of success. They tend
to impact gardens a lot less if you feed them at predictable times of the
day, as they're lazy buggers at heart. Of course, having ONE semi-tame
woodchuck might become pretty easy, but if it became a happy extended
family, that could be big trouble. Here are a couple Pet
Groundhog/Woodchuck websites:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall.../bob_lutz.html
There are lots of links at that site. Plus this groundhog lovers website:
http://www.hoghaven.com/
which has a photo section to die for, cute cute cute.

-paghat the ratgirl

PS: The following is quoted verbatim from a "Woodchucks in the Garden"
fact sheet including humane control measures:

The groundhog, or woodchuck, is a large rodent, about two feet long,
including its bushy tail. It has a compact, chunky body supported by
short, strong legs. The forefeet, which have long, curved claws, are well
adapted for digging. The coarse fur is gray on the upper body and
yellowish-orange on the underside.

Groundhogs prefer to live in open fields, woodlands and hedgerows. They
dig extensive burrows with two or more entrances. These burrows are
commonly located in fields, pastures, along fence rows, stone walls,
roadsides, and even at the bases of trees. Groundhogs feed on a variety of
vegetables, grasses and legumes. Some favorite foods are peas, beans,
carrot tops, alfalfa, clover and grasses. Early morning and evening hours
are the groundhog's preferred feeding times.

Control: Needless to say, groundhogs living near vegetable gardens and
other choice plantings can be real pests. Control measures are limited in
residential and suburban areas. Wire fencing discourages them sometimes.
Live-trapping may also be effective; bait the trap with apple slices or
vegetables such as carrots or ears of corn. Another method is flushing the
animals from their burrows, then filling the entrances with large rocks.
Admittedly, none of these solutions will take care of the problem
permanently, but they may reduce the damage groundhogs do.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article , "Ricky"
wrote:

"Mike Davis" wrote in message
newsr13c.33608$UU.15729@lakeread01...
Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former
garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

My previous experience has been to live trap the little monsters and
toddle
a few miles down the road to unfarmed areas and release em. If there's
another way to get rid of them (the wife is definitely not in favor of my
initial suggestion of woodchuck chili), I'd appreciate your guidance.

You have to kill them. Sorry to say for you all animal lovers, but they will
toddle right back. We dealt with them for 12 years in Western NJ. I killed
at least 50 of them in that time but they kept on coming back from
somewhere. Good luck.

Unfortunately this is indeed often the only option. IF the groundhog is
legitimately causing real harm to the garden, live capture for release
elsewhere is often illegal, & elsetimes more cruel than a quick humane
death. I would recommend live capture & turning the animal over to animal
control -- they will likely kill it humanely. Scissor or jaw traps are
cruel & in some states illegal.

SOME species of marmots/groundhogs are protected, & harrassing them could
get you heavily fined, potentially even imprisoned.

And depending on what one is growing, many people manage to live with
groundhogs, so make sure they are REALLY causing damage & don't kill them
merely because they're there.

[REPOST OF GROUNDHOG & PRAIRIE DOG POST]

I lived with a prairie dog for a while. His name was Woodrow. Though they
are not notable climbers, he figured out a bag of peanuts, from which he
received very occasional treats, was kept on the top of a seven-foot-tall
shelf. He managed to get up there one day when I was letting him roam free
in what I thought was a "prairie dog proofed" room, & by the time I came
back in the room, he'd eaten the whole bag. Which gave him one hell of a
stomach ache & diarrhea & cost a vet bill.

This was my then-roommate's pet but as she was gone a
lot, I was his defacto caretaker. He was a TERRIBLE pet for
destructiveness & odor & when my roommate moved out I was SO relieved not
to have Woodrow around anymore. I lived with him for nearly two years
though & have as many good memories of his charming behavior, as of bad
memories of stuff he ruined & messes he made & visitors who wanted to know
what that smell was.

Anyhow, in gardens, moles are insectivorous, usually cause no real harm,
are actually beneficial, & it bothers me people are so insistent on
killing them. But groundhogs are vegetarians & will devour many things in
the garden. I would almost certainly attempt to accomodate a woodchuck or
the like even so. I mean, if I can forgive a prairie dog for chewing up a
rare book, I'm sure I could forgive a woodchuck for eating the flower
buds. But where I presently live I'm not likely to be tested on that
score (no groundhogs in this town).

As a big rodent fan myself, I've read several articles about people who've
befriended their garden woodchuck with quite a lot of success. They tend
to impact gardens a lot less if you feed them at predictable times of the
day, as they're lazy buggers at heart. Of course, having ONE semi-tame
woodchuck might become pretty easy, but if it became a happy extended
family, that could be big trouble. Here are a couple Pet
Groundhog/Woodchuck websites:
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconVall.../bob_lutz.html
There are lots of links at that site. Plus this groundhog lovers website:
http://www.hoghaven.com/
which has a photo section to die for, cute cute cute.

-paghat the ratgirl

PS: The following is quoted verbatim from a "Woodchucks in the Garden"
fact sheet including humane control measures:

The groundhog, or woodchuck, is a large rodent, about two feet long,
including its bushy tail. It has a compact, chunky body supported by
short, strong legs. The forefeet, which have long, curved claws, are well
adapted for digging. The coarse fur is gray on the upper body and
yellowish-orange on the underside.

Groundhogs prefer to live in open fields, woodlands and hedgerows. They
dig extensive burrows with two or more entrances. These burrows are
commonly located in fields, pastures, along fence rows, stone walls,
roadsides, and even at the bases of trees. Groundhogs feed on a variety of
vegetables, grasses and legumes. Some favorite foods are peas, beans,
carrot tops, alfalfa, clover and grasses. Early morning and evening hours
are the groundhog's preferred feeding times.

Control: Needless to say, groundhogs living near vegetable gardens and
other choice plantings can be real pests. Control measures are limited in
residential and suburban areas. Wire fencing discourages them sometimes.
Live-trapping may also be effective; bait the trap with apple slices or
vegetables such as carrots or ears of corn. Another method is flushing the
animals from their burrows, then filling the entrances with large rocks.
Admittedly, none of these solutions will take care of the problem
permanently, but they may reduce the damage groundhogs do.

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

[another repost which shows it is possible to love & care about things of
nature around one's house rather than shit bricks & kill everything for
the sake of a couple dollars worth of carrots.]

MARMOTS/GROUNDHOGS AS PETS:

The groundhog you can see in the film GROUNDHOG'S DAY was a more-or-less
trained pet. Though amenable to being held & messed with on-camera, it
nevertheless bit the hell out of Bill Murray who was not very expert in
handling it. The scene where he is making the groundhog use a steering
wheel, what looks like Bill getting bitten is in fact Bill getting bitten.
They kept the scene in since Murray stayed in character. The same
groundhog appeared in a couple other film calling for a Groundhog's Day
sequence, but I forget which.

One of the marmots most often kept in captivity is the hoary marmot. They
are quite common, they thrive in captivity, & thus have even been used as
captive behavioral study models by some researchers. The steppe marmot
is used as a captive-bred fur-baring animal on fur-farms in Russia. The
steppe marmot more closely resembles prairie dogs in that it is not a
mountain animal but prefers the flat steppes where they live in extensive
colonies. American marmots/groundhogs do not live in colonies as do ground
squirrels & prairie dogs, & one rarely sees extensive populations in
finite areas.

When America had much more of a rural population with rural lifestyles,
marmots/woodchucks were much more apt to end up family pets. I found two
websites of general histories that spoke of marmots or woodchucks kept as
pets in Victorian America. Here are some 1937 photos of a family that kept
a pet marmot, very charming:
http://www.hoghaven.com/boy1937.htm
http://www.hoghaven.com/girl1937.htm
http://www.hoghaven.com/man1937.htm
and from the same Hog Haven website, a more recent picture of a
hand-raised orphan groundhog:
http://www.hoghaven.com/bella1.htm
You'll want to noodle around in the whole www.hoghaven.com website which
is delightfully packed with entertaining bits.

The people who run groundhog.com have encouraged groundhogs to live all
around their home. Living in a very rural place they are not actually
restricting what these animals do, so they are still largely wild animals
that have learned to hang out near the farm & trust people. If it were a
more populated region no doubt neighbors would complain about garden-raids
or otherwise have a "must exterminate vermin!" response.

They've included a section on rescues too. The rescue page shows their
own primary rescue now fully grown & sitting in its "owner's" lap. "Owner"
is a stretch since once the groundhog was grown, they let it loose, & it
moved in under the house & merely volunteered to remain a pet, they in no
way kept it from doing whatever it pleased. It gets along well with the
cat -- the cat even goes into the groundhog's tunnel to visit -- & the
groundhog never ceased to come sit in peoples' laps to get treats. The
other groundhogs leave the farm each winter to go hibernate, but looks
like the hand-raised one hibernates in the burrow it made for itself under
the house.

Captive breeding is being done on Vancouver Island to assist in
re-establishing populations of an endangered variety. The volunteers &
workers are lucky to handle young marmots regularly, which seem to be very
friendly, but only photograph at the site of anyone handling a full grown
marmot, it has been sedated. The Vancouver recovery project's stunning
website with great photographs throughout:
http://www.marmots.org
and there's some stuff elsewhere on the net about the Toronto & Calgary
zoo programs to breed this same endangered species in captivity.

There are of course many kinds of marmots, some common, some endangered.
Their dispositions probably vary from type to type, since that's true of
the different varieties of prairie dogs. "The Marmot Burrow" website
which is he
http://www.marmotburrow.ucla.edu/
has a page on how to care for them in captivity:
http://www.marmotburrow.ucla.edu/care.html
The fact that they hibernate is mentioned as a drawback, & the main
recommendation otherwise seems to be a mere "guess" that females make
slightly better pets & even they must be acquired very young. It fails to
note that marmots are usually abandoned when weaned & can already take
care of themselves when pretty small; no one should try to rescue one just
because it's little, it's probably doing fine.

There is an exotic pet farm in Newark Ohio whose personal pets include a
groundhog named Sophia, Lennie the Wonder Prairie Dog, a pet lynx, & much
else. Plus they do sell these exotics to the public, hopefully not
willynilly since much of what they offer make really crappy pets.

There are many other pet marmot groundhog & woodchuck bits scattered all
over the net. And for something goofy, look at this illustration of a
geisha & her pet groundhog:
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/n...kopie.jpg.html

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

[another repost which shows it is possible to love & care about things of
nature around one's house rather than shit bricks & kill everything for
the sake of a couple dollars worth of carrots.]

MARMOTS/GROUNDHOGS AS PETS:

The groundhog you can see in the film GROUNDHOG'S DAY was a more-or-less
trained pet. Though amenable to being held & messed with on-camera, it
nevertheless bit the hell out of Bill Murray who was not very expert in
handling it. The scene where he is making the groundhog use a steering
wheel, what looks like Bill getting bitten is in fact Bill getting bitten.
They kept the scene in since Murray stayed in character. The same
groundhog appeared in a couple other film calling for a Groundhog's Day
sequence, but I forget which.

One of the marmots most often kept in captivity is the hoary marmot. They
are quite common, they thrive in captivity, & thus have even been used as
captive behavioral study models by some researchers. The steppe marmot
is used as a captive-bred fur-baring animal on fur-farms in Russia. The
steppe marmot more closely resembles prairie dogs in that it is not a
mountain animal but prefers the flat steppes where they live in extensive
colonies. American marmots/groundhogs do not live in colonies as do ground
squirrels & prairie dogs, & one rarely sees extensive populations in
finite areas.

When America had much more of a rural population with rural lifestyles,
marmots/woodchucks were much more apt to end up family pets. I found two
websites of general histories that spoke of marmots or woodchucks kept as
pets in Victorian America. Here are some 1937 photos of a family that kept
a pet marmot, very charming:
http://www.hoghaven.com/boy1937.htm
http://www.hoghaven.com/girl1937.htm
http://www.hoghaven.com/man1937.htm
and from the same Hog Haven website, a more recent picture of a
hand-raised orphan groundhog:
http://www.hoghaven.com/bella1.htm
You'll want to noodle around in the whole www.hoghaven.com website which
is delightfully packed with entertaining bits.

The people who run groundhog.com have encouraged groundhogs to live all
around their home. Living in a very rural place they are not actually
restricting what these animals do, so they are still largely wild animals
that have learned to hang out near the farm & trust people. If it were a
more populated region no doubt neighbors would complain about garden-raids
or otherwise have a "must exterminate vermin!" response.

They've included a section on rescues too. The rescue page shows their
own primary rescue now fully grown & sitting in its "owner's" lap. "Owner"
is a stretch since once the groundhog was grown, they let it loose, & it
moved in under the house & merely volunteered to remain a pet, they in no
way kept it from doing whatever it pleased. It gets along well with the
cat -- the cat even goes into the groundhog's tunnel to visit -- & the
groundhog never ceased to come sit in peoples' laps to get treats. The
other groundhogs leave the farm each winter to go hibernate, but looks
like the hand-raised one hibernates in the burrow it made for itself under
the house.

Captive breeding is being done on Vancouver Island to assist in
re-establishing populations of an endangered variety. The volunteers &
workers are lucky to handle young marmots regularly, which seem to be very
friendly, but only photograph at the site of anyone handling a full grown
marmot, it has been sedated. The Vancouver recovery project's stunning
website with great photographs throughout:
http://www.marmots.org
and there's some stuff elsewhere on the net about the Toronto & Calgary
zoo programs to breed this same endangered species in captivity.

There are of course many kinds of marmots, some common, some endangered.
Their dispositions probably vary from type to type, since that's true of
the different varieties of prairie dogs. "The Marmot Burrow" website
which is he
http://www.marmotburrow.ucla.edu/
has a page on how to care for them in captivity:
http://www.marmotburrow.ucla.edu/care.html
The fact that they hibernate is mentioned as a drawback, & the main
recommendation otherwise seems to be a mere "guess" that females make
slightly better pets & even they must be acquired very young. It fails to
note that marmots are usually abandoned when weaned & can already take
care of themselves when pretty small; no one should try to rescue one just
because it's little, it's probably doing fine.

There is an exotic pet farm in Newark Ohio whose personal pets include a
groundhog named Sophia, Lennie the Wonder Prairie Dog, a pet lynx, & much
else. Plus they do sell these exotics to the public, hopefully not
willynilly since much of what they offer make really crappy pets.

There are many other pet marmot groundhog & woodchuck bits scattered all
over the net. And for something goofy, look at this illustration of a
geisha & her pet groundhog:
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/loth/n...kopie.jpg.html

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

"Mike Davis" wrote:

Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

We have almost as many groundhogs and white-tailed deer. If a groundhog
comes into the yard area and tries to set up home, there are two things
that will get rid of him.

First, I can toss gasoline into the hole, count to 5 and then toss in a
match. Never see the groundhog again, but the following year another
groundhog may use the hole.

Second, I can shoot the groundhog and bury him in his own hole. That
always works.

Dwight Sipler wrote:

in most states it is illegal to transport wild animals, so toddling
down the road with them fits into that category.

In Pennsylvania, the game commission will loan us traps to trap and
relocate groundhogs. The traps catch more skunks and cats than
groundhogs. Also, we have so many groundhogs that the den always gets a
new tennant.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Dwight Sipler wrote:

Notwithstanding the legality issue, it is possible to take them far
enough away that they won't toddle back.

Maybe, but others will use the den within a year unless you completely
block all entrances. If you trap it and fill in all entrances and cover
the area with hardware cloth, you might be able to keep them from using
the area.

When I do that, they live in my barn, under an old out-house, and under
some heavy groundcover juniper close to the house. Unfortunately, I
can't use gasoline in any of these locations and traps just fill up with
skunks and cats. I use a 20 gauge shotgun.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

"Mike Davis" wrote:

Any experience with driving away groundhogs (aka woodchucks, whistlepigs,
etc.) from the garden area. I'm moving into a house where the former garden
tract has become home for a fat and feisty furball.

We have almost as many groundhogs and white-tailed deer. If a groundhog
comes into the yard area and tries to set up home, there are two things
that will get rid of him.

First, I can toss gasoline into the hole, count to 5 and then toss in a
match. Never see the groundhog again, but the following year another
groundhog may use the hole.

Second, I can shoot the groundhog and bury him in his own hole. That
always works.

Dwight Sipler wrote:

in most states it is illegal to transport wild animals, so toddling
down the road with them fits into that category.

In Pennsylvania, the game commission will loan us traps to trap and
relocate groundhogs. The traps catch more skunks and cats than
groundhogs. Also, we have so many groundhogs that the den always gets a
new tennant.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman