"chaz" expounded:

It isnt FREE if you demand some sort of payment............and it looks like
you do. Expectation breeds resentment.

Oh, bullshit. Simple grattitude doesn't cost you a damned thing.
Helen deserved thanx for every single recipient, and she surely
shouldn't have had to post what she did. I never took her up on her
kind offer; shame on any who didn't thank her.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Xref: kermit rec.gardens:268554

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:56:20 -0500, Ann wrote:

"chaz" expounded:

It isnt FREE if you demand some sort of payment............and it looks like
you do. Expectation breeds resentment.

Oh, bullshit. Simple grattitude doesn't cost you a damned thing.
Helen deserved thanx for every single recipient, and she surely
shouldn't have had to post what she did. I never took her up on her
kind offer; shame on any who didn't thank her.

I agree with you and Maddie on the thank you. That's what I'd want.
But Helen didn't ask for a thank just an acknowledgement that they'd
arrived.

I think we should come up with some really good lines for Helen to use
when these same jerks want seconds on the seeds.

Uuhhh.........but before I get too mouthy, Helen have yous sent me any
seeds lately?

zhan

"chaz" expounded:

It isnt FREE if you demand some sort of payment............and it looks like
you do. Expectation breeds resentment.

Oh, bullshit. Simple grattitude doesn't cost you a damned thing.
Helen deserved thanx for every single recipient, and she surely
shouldn't have had to post what she did. I never took her up on her
kind offer; shame on any who didn't thank her.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Xref: kermit rec.gardens:268554

On Wed, 17 Mar 2004 17:56:20 -0500, Ann wrote:

"chaz" expounded:

It isnt FREE if you demand some sort of payment............and it looks like
you do. Expectation breeds resentment.

Oh, bullshit. Simple grattitude doesn't cost you a damned thing.
Helen deserved thanx for every single recipient, and she surely
shouldn't have had to post what she did. I never took her up on her
kind offer; shame on any who didn't thank her.

I agree with you and Maddie on the thank you. That's what I'd want.
But Helen didn't ask for a thank just an acknowledgement that they'd
arrived.

I think we should come up with some really good lines for Helen to use
when these same jerks want seconds on the seeds.

Uuhhh.........but before I get too mouthy, Helen have yous sent me any
seeds lately?

zhan

no harm no foul Bob. I knew you were a good guy, but if youse looks at your
reply it almost looks like your chastising Helen for wanting a thank you.
Yer ok in my book! (I've had the same thing with a few sharings of my own
divisions and let it go.........)
maddie
"zxcvbob" wrote in message Lest anyone get the idea
from my previous message, I don't really blame
Helen for getting upset; I remember how ****ed I was when I exchanged
some aquatic plants with someone on rec.aquaria.frshwater.plants and
they stiffed me. I picked out my very best extra java ferns and wrapped
them carefully and sent them priority mail. I don't remember what kind
of plants I was supposed to get in return, but I never heard back from
the guy. I sent him an email to see if they had arrived OK, and he said
they were great. And he never sent me anything. I sent a reminder
email a few weeks later and he never replied. I was only out a couple
of dollars for the postage, but I *really* felt hurt and angry about
being taken advantage of.

Maybe he sent them and they got lost in the mail. I tend to believe
that a certain [large] percentage people are just assholes, and I don't
do exchanges anymore unless I'm OK with getting nothing back.

Best regards,
Bob

no harm no foul Bob. I knew you were a good guy, but if youse looks at your
reply it almost looks like your chastising Helen for wanting a thank you.
Yer ok in my book! (I've had the same thing with a few sharings of my own
divisions and let it go.........)
maddie
"zxcvbob" wrote in message Lest anyone get the idea
from my previous message, I don't really blame
Helen for getting upset; I remember how ****ed I was when I exchanged
some aquatic plants with someone on rec.aquaria.frshwater.plants and
they stiffed me. I picked out my very best extra java ferns and wrapped
them carefully and sent them priority mail. I don't remember what kind
of plants I was supposed to get in return, but I never heard back from
the guy. I sent him an email to see if they had arrived OK, and he said
they were great. And he never sent me anything. I sent a reminder
email a few weeks later and he never replied. I was only out a couple
of dollars for the postage, but I *really* felt hurt and angry about
being taken advantage of.

Maybe he sent them and they got lost in the mail. I tend to believe
that a certain [large] percentage people are just assholes, and I don't
do exchanges anymore unless I'm OK with getting nothing back.

Best regards,
Bob

I do the same and get the same results as you. I expressed the exact same thing
you are here and I still got no results. So, now if I send seeds, I have
completely let go of anything, including a notification of receipt. However, I
do a lot less seed sharing. I'm busy with my life and garden. Friends I've
met over the years are who I still send plants or seeds to. NObody else.

Victoria


On 16 Mar 2004 15:03:24 GMT, (Helen J. Foss) opined:

For several years now I have posted 'FREE SEEDS - POSTAGE PAID' on
rec/gardens and received multi requests for tomato seeds.
I filled the requests for what folks asked for. Took the time to
label the individual little 'baggies', insert the seeds, secured them
between cardboard sheets and mailed them off at my own expense. I didn't,
and don't have a problem with this.
I put together over 300 packets last fall alone and enjoyed doing
it. The ONLY thing I asked in return was that the recipients of my labors,
notify me when they received the seeds....I don't think that was too much
to ask for.
A few offered me some different seeds, which I though was a nice
gesture on their part, and I accepted the offer. To this day I have not
received any seeds, but that doesn't really bother me as much as the fact
that a few of the ones I sent seeds to, didn't have the common courtesy to
sit at the keyboard for one minute, and tell me they received the
seeds....how long does it take to say 'I got them'?
I have sent seeds to many States, Alaska (I know it's a State),
Australia, United Kingdom and Wales and received reports that the seeds
have done well in their area.
Now suddenly I'm receiving further requests for seeds, and have
already maialed out over 150 packets, for which I have received replies of
their arrival.
To the folks that sent me messages telling me of their arrival, I
say a BIG THANK you, and hope I'll be able to send you some new and
different seeds next fall.
To the folks that were too busy to spend a minute on the
keyboard, I say THANKS FOR NOTHING, and there will be no further shipments
from this source.
To those who want to flame me, just want to say that I had to vent
my disappointment in certain people that have no time to show a little
common courtesy to a fellow gardener.
Hope you all have a great growing season and abundant crops.

On Tue, 16 Mar 2004 16:48:17 GMT, "Stephen M. Henning" opined:

"chaz" wrote:

"Helen J. Foss" wrote:
I put together over 300 packets last fall alone and enjoyed doing
it. The ONLY thing I asked in return was that the recipients of my labors,
notify me when they received the seeds....I don't think that was too much
to ask for.

It isnt FREE if you demand some sort of payment.......and it looks like
you do. Expectation breeds resentment.

Common courtesy is not payment, it is just common courtesy.
The lack of common courtesy breeds resentment.

You are right, on one hand. ON the other hand, it is only ME who can breed
resentment. So, I either detach from it, or I discontinue doing it. Either way,
I'm responsible with how I react.

It seems that, in my perception anyway, people in this great country, the USA
have become almost barbaric. Common decency or common respect is virtually
gone. People do it if it feels good. I have no understanding on any level how
certain people do the things they do. So, I become more and more reclusive and
closer and closer to a very small circle of people.

I really can't take the constant whining and complaining about life. It's too
short and I have joy in my life. I'd like to kee it that way.

V

madgardener wrote:
no harm no foul Bob. I knew you were a good guy, but if youse looks at your
reply it almost looks like your chastising Helen for wanting a thank you.
Yer ok in my book! (I've had the same thing with a few sharings of my own
divisions and let it go.........)
maddie


Thanks; that's why I wrote a follow-up message [below].
I reread my first message, and it came across a lot harsher than I
intended. I just meant to say that Helen may have inadvertently
offended some folks ("Have a nice day" can cause some people to burst
into tears) so they didn't reply. Some of the seeds may have been lost
in the mail or confiscated by Customs. And some of the recipients were
probably just assholes, but sadly that is to be expected too.

Don't assume that everyone who didn't respond is an jerk; most of them
are, but you can't tell which ones. It's easier to "let it go" that way
(at least in the same situation, it's easier for me.)

Best regards,
Bob


"zxcvbob" wrote in message Lest anyone get the idea
from my previous message, I don't really blame

Helen for getting upset; I remember how ****ed I was when I exchanged
some aquatic plants with someone on rec.aquaria.frshwater.plants and
they stiffed me. I picked out my very best extra java ferns and wrapped
them carefully and sent them priority mail. I don't remember what kind
of plants I was supposed to get in return, but I never heard back from
the guy. I sent him an email to see if they had arrived OK, and he said
they were great. And he never sent me anything. I sent a reminder
email a few weeks later and he never replied. I was only out a couple
of dollars for the postage, but I *really* felt hurt and angry about
being taken advantage of.

Maybe he sent them and they got lost in the mail. I tend to believe
that a certain [large] percentage people are just assholes, and I don't
do exchanges anymore unless I'm OK with getting nothing back.

Best regards,
Bob

On 16 Mar 2004 15:03:24 GMT in ,
(Helen J. Foss) graced the world with this
thought:


To those who want to flame me, just want to say that I had to vent
my disappointment in certain people that have no time to show a little
common courtesy to a fellow gardener.
Hope you all have a great growing season and abundant crops.

Take a pill.

You sound a little needy, which might be off-putting to some seed
recipients. Certainly there is a type of gardener too cheapy-ass to buy
even a $2 seedling or a packet of seeds, the sorts of bungholes who just
want something for nothing. Because of my website, I have beggars emailing
me for cuttings & seeds several times a week, as there seem to be no end
of ******s cruising the web looking for free plants from perfect strangers
because they apparently have no actual friends with whom to trade plants.
I ignore most of them or send them links to commercial sources, but when I
can I do occasionally share things with friends & correspondents, though
mainly with visitors rather than with emailers.

Despite my own cynical views of the matter, people have sent me things
from time to time which they thought I would enjoy, which I often did

Helen is the very opposite of needy. She very generously offers to send
seeds to people *at her own expense*! If you send to more than a dozen
people, that starts to add up to some real $$$. I've exchanged seeds
and roots with her, and when her package arrives, there are always
extras in there. Like me, she hates to see things go to waste, and that
includes extra seeds.

In this day and age it seems to be difficult to give freely of your
time and resources without comming under suspicion of having an
ulterior motive.

It doesn't matter wether you spent five minutes stuffing some seeds in
an envelope, or an hour digging up some daylilies to divide, it's nice
to know that the items arrived and were appreciated. Sometimes life
gets in the way for awhile and the recipient takes longer than they'd
like to say thanks, but to get no response at all is very frustrating.

BP

In article , Bonnie
Punch wrote:


You sound a little needy, which might be off-putting to some seed
recipients. Certainly there is a type of gardener too cheapy-ass to buy
even a $2 seedling or a packet of seeds, the sorts of bungholes who just
want something for nothing. Because of my website, I have beggars emailing
me for cuttings & seeds several times a week, as there seem to be no end
of ******s cruising the web looking for free plants from perfect strangers
because they apparently have no actual friends with whom to trade plants.
I ignore most of them or send them links to commercial sources, but when I
can I do occasionally share things with friends & correspondents, though
mainly with visitors rather than with emailers.

Despite my own cynical views of the matter, people have sent me things
from time to time which they thought I would enjoy, which I often did

Helen is the very opposite of needy. She very generously offers to send
seeds to people *at her own expense*! If you send to more than a dozen
people, that starts to add up to some real $$$. I've exchanged seeds
and roots with her, and when her package arrives, there are always
extras in there. Like me, she hates to see things go to waste, and that
includes extra seeds.

In this day and age it seems to be difficult to give freely of your
time and resources without comming under suspicion of having an
ulterior motive.

It doesn't matter wether you spent five minutes stuffing some seeds in
an envelope, or an hour digging up some daylilies to divide, it's nice
to know that the items arrived and were appreciated. Sometimes life
gets in the way for awhile and the recipient takes longer than they'd
like to say thanks, but to get no response at all is very frustrating.

BP

Well, I send about 200 pieces of mail art out into the world each month.
Some to people I've traded stuff with for twenty years, some to people I
don't know at all. When sending to new people I suspect less than a third
respond by sending mail art in return, which according to the rules of the
game all mail-artists are supposed to do. But my sentiment has always been
if I get something in return, super; if I don't get something in return,
no big deal, cuz maybe even then I spread a momentary delight to someone
before they tossed my art in the garbage, or better still magnetted it to
their refrigerator. I don't need to know what happened. My first reward is
that I did it at all. If I get a second reward of someone informing me
they were made happy by it, or a third reward in being made happy by
someone else's art sent to me, or in some cases the shocking reward of
discovering that something I made ten years ago is permanently archived in
museums in Cuba, Hungary, Canada, England, & the United States -- well,
the less reward sought, the more reward there seems to be!

I've heard mail artists complain the way Helen complained about seeds,
that they send out mail art to people who say they are mail artists, who
are supposed to send art back, but who never respond in any manner -- no
expression of grattitude, no acknowledgement, nothing in trade, nada,
whine, winge, woe is me the Great Sharer. I say stop kvetching -- or stop
sharing if it makes you so whiny. The purpose of sharing is not personal
gain. And a 20% response rate is a HUGE personal gain even though even
that shouldn't be required.

In Helen's case it's even a little like giving away samples of candy in
the grocery store & expecting them to come back the next day to say thank
you -- if they can't say thank you up front & that be enough, then don't
bother. And a properly addressed envelop or package gets there 99.999999%
of the time, so requiring acknowledgement that it was at least received is
just an exuse for the neediness. I think most people would feel if they
gave away 100 packets of seeds and made as few as two lasting friends from
the deal, good lord that's fantastic. Griping about the others is
churlish.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

The message a
from Bonnie Punch contains these words:



You sound a little needy, which might be off-putting to some seed
recipients.

Helen is the very opposite of needy.

"Needy" doesn't only mean poor,hard-up. It's also used to describe
people who (consciously or not), manipulate other people and social
situations in order to support some hidden psychological need of their
own.

She very generously offers to send
seeds to people *at her own expense*! If you send to more than a dozen
people, that starts to add up to some real $$$.

Well, Helen said she had packaged and sent a consignment to over 300
recipients, many abroad.Yes, that's some real $$$; "investing" so much
time and money in strangers could mean she's rather emotionally needy in
the above sense. As Paghat pointed out, needy behaviour often often
makes people shy away.

I don't think Helen (or you) should take it as an unkind criticism. If
on careful consideration one's own behaviour or attitude turns out to be
the cause of one's frustration, at least there's an opportunity to do
something about it :-)

Janet.

The message a
from Bonnie Punch contains these words:



You sound a little needy, which might be off-putting to some seed
recipients.

Helen is the very opposite of needy.

"Needy" doesn't only mean poor,hard-up. It's also used to describe
people who (consciously or not), manipulate other people and social
situations in order to support some hidden psychological need of their
own.

She very generously offers to send
seeds to people *at her own expense*! If you send to more than a dozen
people, that starts to add up to some real $$$.

Well, Helen said she had packaged and sent a consignment to over 300
recipients, many abroad.Yes, that's some real $$$; "investing" so much
time and money in strangers could mean she's rather emotionally needy in
the above sense. As Paghat pointed out, needy behaviour often often
makes people shy away.

I don't think Helen (or you) should take it as an unkind criticism. If
on careful consideration one's own behaviour or attitude turns out to be
the cause of one's frustration, at least there's an opportunity to do
something about it :-)

Janet.

You sound a little needy, which might be off-putting to some seed
recipients.

Helen is the very opposite of needy.

"Needy" doesn't only mean poor,hard-up. It's also used to describe
people who (consciously or not), manipulate other people and social
situations in order to support some hidden psychological need of their
own.

Paghat meant emotionally needy. I knew that, and I meant that she is
not any more needy than the rest of us. We *all* manipulate people
*all* the time. We pay attention to a spouse/lover so that they will
love us, and we won't be alone. We flatter a friend so they'll like us
and we'll have someone to talk to. In order to get you have to give. We
all have psycological, physical and emotional needs. It's part of being
human.

She very generously offers to send
seeds to people *at her own expense*! If you send to more than a dozen
people, that starts to add up to some real $$$.

Well, Helen said she had packaged and sent a consignment to over 300
recipients, many abroad.Yes, that's some real $$$; "investing" so much
time and money in strangers could mean she's rather emotionally needy in
the above sense. As Paghat pointed out, needy behaviour often often
makes people shy away.

Maybe she's just really nice? I realize that generosity is a dying
trait, so it can be difficult to recognize it when you see it. Even
nice people will complain when they feel like too many people have
taken advantage of them. Interpreting frustration over a lack of
manners as needy is a bit of a stretch. There's nothing needy about her
behavior - she's venting her anger. What's she supposed to do? People
need to be reminded of basic ettiquette sometimes, and some people
won't get it unless you hit them upside the head with a clue-by-four.

This isn't the first time someone has complained here of a lack of a
decent response when sending out items. When we were children we were
taguht by our parents to say thank you, but some people seem to think
that it's no longer necessary as an adult.

All she wants is a simple thank you. Why is that so hard to accept?

BP