Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

I want to fill my newly built 4'x24' raised bed, over 1 ft deep, with
a good soil to grow vegetables and herbs (and maybe some flowers too,
why not). I purchased 5 40-lb bags of top soil, different brands, from
local stores, and sent samples from each to our Extension Service for
testing. Based on the results I got back, and also from price
considerations, I will choose one named Garden Magic Top Soil,
produced by Michigan Peat. Now that I'm looking more closely at this
product, I noticed that instructions on the bag talk about using the
product to "top your soil". Specific recommendations for using this
product a

-Top dresses lawns and gardens
-Patches bare spots on lawns
-Loosens heavy soils
-Improves moisture retention in existing soils

(this is verbatim from their web site)

Interestingly, there is no mention of using this product as your soil,
period. It's always about doing something to your existing soil in
order to improve it. So I called Michigan Peat and asked whether this
particular product is suitable for use as the only soil (as opposed to
something used to enrich existing soil). The person I spoke with
seemed to be caught by surprise by my question, and after a few
seconds of silence (and apparent hesitation), slowly said "yes, it
should work". So the official answer from the company, technically
speaking, was "yes", but I didn't feel exactly reassured. Perhaps it
would help if I mention that they describe the composition of Magic
Garden Top Soil as a "blend of dark reed sedge peat and sand". Not
knowing anything about soil composition in general, this description
doesn't help me much. I know it's supposed to be a mix of clay, silt,
and sand, but how does "dark reed sedge peat" fit into this scheme? I
know from the test results that the pH and mineral and organic content
are all good, so one question to ask would be, is the structure of
this product adequate?

I'd like to know if anybody happens to have used this product and
knows whether it can be used as "real" soil (whatever that is). Any
other related experiences or insights will be appreciated too!

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Subject: Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
From: (Cicero_wnb)
Date: 4/2/2004 8:15 AM Eastern Standard Time
Message-id:

I want to fill my newly built 4'x24' raised bed, over 1 ft deep, with
a good soil to grow vegetables and herbs (and maybe some flowers too,
why not). I purchased 5 40-lb bags of top soil, different brands, from
local stores, and sent samples from each to our Extension Service for
testing. Based on the results I got back, and also from price
considerations, I will choose one named Garden Magic Top Soil,
produced by Michigan Peat. Now that I'm looking more closely at this
product, I noticed that instructions on the bag talk about using the
product to "top your soil". Specific recommendations for using this
product a

-Top dresses lawns and gardens
-Patches bare spots on lawns
-Loosens heavy soils
-Improves moisture retention in existing soils

(this is verbatim from their web site)

Interestingly, there is no mention of using this product as your soil,
period. It's always about doing something to your existing soil in
order to improve it. So I called Michigan Peat and asked whether this
particular product is suitable for use as the only soil (as opposed to
something used to enrich existing soil). The person I spoke with
seemed to be caught by surprise by my question, and after a few
seconds of silence (and apparent hesitation), slowly said "yes, it
should work". So the official answer from the company, technically
speaking, was "yes", but I didn't feel exactly reassured. Perhaps it
would help if I mention that they describe the composition of Magic
Garden Top Soil as a "blend of dark reed sedge peat and sand". Not
knowing anything about soil composition in general, this description
doesn't help me much. I know it's supposed to be a mix of clay, silt,
and sand, but how does "dark reed sedge peat" fit into this scheme? I
know from the test results that the pH and mineral and organic content
are all good, so one question to ask would be, is the structure of
this product adequate?

I'd like to know if anybody happens to have used this product and
knows whether it can be used as "real" soil (whatever that is). Any
other related experiences or insights will be appreciated too!



It's ****ing soil, you ****ing dumbshit. Peat and sand, or peat and perlite.
What in hell does brand name matter? Are you really this stupid, and obsessive,
over soil brand? ROTFLMAO.

-

theoneflasehaddock

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

"theoneflasehaddock" wrote in message
om...
(Cicero_wnb) wrote in message
. com...
uckoff (theoneflasehaddock) wrote in message
...

It's ****ing soil, you ****ing dumbshit. Peat and sand, or peat and
perlite.
What in hell does brand name matter? Are you really this stupid, and
obsessive,
over soil brand? ROTFLMAO.


So it is real soil, thanks for clarifying.

You'd be surprised to see the differences in the analyses I got back
(apparently not all soils are created equal...). One of them had a pH
of 8.1 ! At first I thought that maybe testing commercial top soils
was overkill, but when I got the results back I felt vindicated!

No, they're not equal - but they're all soil. Dumbass.

Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, eh???



Howm Grone J

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

"theoneflasehaddock" wrote in message
om...
(Cicero_wnb) wrote in message
. com...
uckoff (theoneflasehaddock) wrote in message
...

It's ****ing soil, you ****ing dumbshit. Peat and sand, or peat and
perlite.
What in hell does brand name matter? Are you really this stupid, and
obsessive,
over soil brand? ROTFLMAO.


So it is real soil, thanks for clarifying.

You'd be surprised to see the differences in the analyses I got back
(apparently not all soils are created equal...). One of them had a pH
of 8.1 ! At first I thought that maybe testing commercial top soils
was overkill, but when I got the results back I felt vindicated!

No, they're not equal - but they're all soil. Dumbass.

Kind of like the pot calling the kettle black, eh???



Howm Grone J

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

You're right to test them. I'm too cheap to do so. When I first
began gardening, I got whatever was on sale. For annuals and
perennials, I dug top soil into the hard clay down to 12". I had a
triple mix that became crusty around mid-summer probably because of
all the salts in the manure portion of the mix.

For shrubs, I simply dug as deep as I could get, usually 24", and
filled it with top soil then planted my shrubs in the top soil. The
shrubs did great for a couple of years then it would sink into the
soil so I had to add more soil each year or take the shrub out and
replant it. I'd don't know if I'm imagining it but the top soil in
these pits seems to shrink.

Plants do beautifully in pure top soil. If your mix is light enough,
you might want to try it as a potting mix for outdoor plants too.

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

I created a little raised bed over an unused portion of driveway in my back
yard, and basically did the same thing. But I dumped any kind of bag of soil
in there I could get - there's top soil, potting soil, some shovelfuls of
dirt from other parts of my garden, cow manure, chicken manure, more
topsoil, more potting soil - well, you get the picture. So far, the
vegetables I have grown in there have done very well - this will be the 4th
year for that bed. Vegetables I have grown in there include lettuces,
collards, parsnips, carrots, radishes, tomatoes, snow peas, sugar snap peas,
chinese cabbage, spinach, mesclun - well, you get the picture. I have found
that these soils compact over time, so every spring I add a few more bags,
and top dress with more manure.
So I don't think you have to obsess over it too much. Since you are creating
soil from scratch, the plants don't have to deal with rocks, hardpan clay,
and some of the other obstacles they would encounter in "real" soil.
"Cicero_wnb" wrote in message
om...
I want to fill my newly built 4'x24' raised bed, over 1 ft deep, with
a good soil to grow vegetables and herbs (and maybe some flowers too,
why not). I purchased 5 40-lb bags of top soil, different brands, from
local stores, and sent samples from each to our Extension Service for
testing. Based on the results I got back, and also from price
considerations, I will choose one named Garden Magic Top Soil,
produced by Michigan Peat. Now that I'm looking more closely at this
product, I noticed that instructions on the bag talk about using the
product to "top your soil". Specific recommendations for using this
product a

-Top dresses lawns and gardens
-Patches bare spots on lawns
-Loosens heavy soils
-Improves moisture retention in existing soils

(this is verbatim from their web site)

Interestingly, there is no mention of using this product as your soil,
period. It's always about doing something to your existing soil in
order to improve it. So I called Michigan Peat and asked whether this
particular product is suitable for use as the only soil (as opposed to
something used to enrich existing soil). The person I spoke with
seemed to be caught by surprise by my question, and after a few
seconds of silence (and apparent hesitation), slowly said "yes, it
should work". So the official answer from the company, technically
speaking, was "yes", but I didn't feel exactly reassured. Perhaps it
would help if I mention that they describe the composition of Magic
Garden Top Soil as a "blend of dark reed sedge peat and sand". Not
knowing anything about soil composition in general, this description
doesn't help me much. I know it's supposed to be a mix of clay, silt,
and sand, but how does "dark reed sedge peat" fit into this scheme? I
know from the test results that the pH and mineral and organic content
are all good, so one question to ask would be, is the structure of
this product adequate?

I'd like to know if anybody happens to have used this product and
knows whether it can be used as "real" soil (whatever that is). Any
other related experiences or insights will be appreciated too!

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

You're right to test them. I'm too cheap to do so. When I first
began gardening, I got whatever was on sale. For annuals and
perennials, I dug top soil into the hard clay down to 12". I had a
triple mix that became crusty around mid-summer probably because of
all the salts in the manure portion of the mix.

For shrubs, I simply dug as deep as I could get, usually 24", and
filled it with top soil then planted my shrubs in the top soil. The
shrubs did great for a couple of years then it would sink into the
soil so I had to add more soil each year or take the shrub out and
replant it. I'd don't know if I'm imagining it but the top soil in
these pits seems to shrink.

Plants do beautifully in pure top soil. If your mix is light enough,
you might want to try it as a potting mix for outdoor plants too.

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

I created a little raised bed over an unused portion of driveway in my back
yard, and basically did the same thing. But I dumped any kind of bag of soil
in there I could get - there's top soil, potting soil, some shovelfuls of
dirt from other parts of my garden, cow manure, chicken manure, more
topsoil, more potting soil - well, you get the picture. So far, the
vegetables I have grown in there have done very well - this will be the 4th
year for that bed. Vegetables I have grown in there include lettuces,
collards, parsnips, carrots, radishes, tomatoes, snow peas, sugar snap peas,
chinese cabbage, spinach, mesclun - well, you get the picture. I have found
that these soils compact over time, so every spring I add a few more bags,
and top dress with more manure.
So I don't think you have to obsess over it too much. Since you are creating
soil from scratch, the plants don't have to deal with rocks, hardpan clay,
and some of the other obstacles they would encounter in "real" soil.
"Cicero_wnb" wrote in message
om...
I want to fill my newly built 4'x24' raised bed, over 1 ft deep, with
a good soil to grow vegetables and herbs (and maybe some flowers too,
why not). I purchased 5 40-lb bags of top soil, different brands, from
local stores, and sent samples from each to our Extension Service for
testing. Based on the results I got back, and also from price
considerations, I will choose one named Garden Magic Top Soil,
produced by Michigan Peat. Now that I'm looking more closely at this
product, I noticed that instructions on the bag talk about using the
product to "top your soil". Specific recommendations for using this
product a

-Top dresses lawns and gardens
-Patches bare spots on lawns
-Loosens heavy soils
-Improves moisture retention in existing soils

(this is verbatim from their web site)

Interestingly, there is no mention of using this product as your soil,
period. It's always about doing something to your existing soil in
order to improve it. So I called Michigan Peat and asked whether this
particular product is suitable for use as the only soil (as opposed to
something used to enrich existing soil). The person I spoke with
seemed to be caught by surprise by my question, and after a few
seconds of silence (and apparent hesitation), slowly said "yes, it
should work". So the official answer from the company, technically
speaking, was "yes", but I didn't feel exactly reassured. Perhaps it
would help if I mention that they describe the composition of Magic
Garden Top Soil as a "blend of dark reed sedge peat and sand". Not
knowing anything about soil composition in general, this description
doesn't help me much. I know it's supposed to be a mix of clay, silt,
and sand, but how does "dark reed sedge peat" fit into this scheme? I
know from the test results that the pH and mineral and organic content
are all good, so one question to ask would be, is the structure of
this product adequate?

I'd like to know if anybody happens to have used this product and
knows whether it can be used as "real" soil (whatever that is). Any
other related experiences or insights will be appreciated too!

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

I can't argue from my own knowledge, but this seems to go counter to
the general recommendation of "raised beds" and "deep soil". Do you
really think that one foot of top soil is too much?

Salty Thumb wrote in message ...

If I recall correctly, it is suboptimal to grow stuff purely in "topsoil".
Don't remember why though. Might have to do with drainage (you want a less
permeable layer to slow water from siphoning below the root level but not
so impermeable as to continually waterlog the roots) or nutrient intake
(same idea, you don't want water soluable ions to wash beyond your root
depth).

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

I can't argue from my own knowledge, but this seems to go counter to
the general recommendation of "raised beds" and "deep soil". Do you
really think that one foot of top soil is too much?

Salty Thumb wrote in message ...

If I recall correctly, it is suboptimal to grow stuff purely in "topsoil".
Don't remember why though. Might have to do with drainage (you want a less
permeable layer to slow water from siphoning below the root level but not
so impermeable as to continually waterlog the roots) or nutrient intake
(same idea, you don't want water soluable ions to wash beyond your root
depth).

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

Salty Thumb wrote:

Warning: blind leading the blind here or at least visually impaired
leading
the blind.

I would say it depends on what you are growing. Aside from nutrient
intake
the roots have to hold the plants in place. Is your homogenous heap
of
topsoil going provide enough stability for that? Someone else said
she had
excellent results, and I can imagine that some plants would work
really
well in pure topsoil.

All I can say for sure is I once rooted a rosemary in pure topsoil
(although it was in a gallon container) and it died, whereas the stuff
in
potting mix 90%+ survived. Looking back, this so called topsoil (el
cheapo
brand) probably didn't have much organic matter in it and crusted up
like
brick. I suppose if you make sure you have organic matter or add
compost
and have proper drainage, you should have excellent results.


So what is the official definition of "top soil". Is it like "top shelf"
in liqueur -- the most expensive name brand? Or is it simply soil
scrapped off the top of someplace?

Most of the stuff I've seen labeled as "top soil" is soil scraped off
the top, with the biggest rocks screened out. Barely a step above "clean
fill", but nowhere near what I would consider "top shelf", despite the
higher price put on it because someone decided to call it "top soil".

Of course I'm answering my own question here. "Top soil" is stuff
scrapped off the top. Mistaking the use of the word "top" in "top soil"
to infer quality is a rookie mistake.

For that matter, "potting soil" simply means it'll fit in a pot if
that's where you want to put it.

There are no official definitions of what soil labels mean. If it's a
commercial bagged mix, the label may give you some idea of what has gone
into that particular soil. You can judge drainage capabilities with some
basic tactile tests involving water. But if more is important to you
than drainage, you're just going to have to have the soil tested. Simple
labels like "top" or "potting" won't tell you what the pH is, or what
the NPK values are.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

We carried this brand once at our garden center a few years ago. It was
basically a bag of mud. Only good for filling ruts in lawns whe the soil
is clay ...but products change over time.

Is Garden Magic Top Soil suitable as soil (by itself)?
 

On Mon, 12 Apr 2004 01:44:05 GMT, "garden guy"
wrote:

We carried this brand once at our garden center a few years ago. It was
basically a bag of mud. Only good for filling ruts in lawns whe the soil
is clay ...but products change over time.


Golly, you're awesome.
----

Fluffy White Baby Seal