David Hill wrote:
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/xft/


Who are you replying to with that?

--
--------------
Peace,
Delta Nine


Life is very difficult. Once you understand that, life becomes easier.
-Buddha

I'm tellin' ya D9, you can't go wrong with gallons and gallons of urine.
- T.D. Shadow

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:36:57 +0100, Janet Baraclough.. wrote:

The message
from "David Hill" contains these
words:

Yes there is a lot of political correctness gone mad.I believe that you
still talk about "Black berries", Here some of the Politically correct
brigade insist that they be referred to now as "Bramble fruit".

To help you avoid being offensive due to ignorance; the term kaffir
equates to "******", not "black".

Yeah, but it relates to "******" in SOUTH AFRICA. A third world country just about as far away on
the planet as any place can be from the US. I would understand offense IN THE UNITED STATES if
someone IN THE UNITIED STATES called a plant a "****** Lily". I wouldn't use the term myself. But
I do not CARE if the word is offensive in some distant country in some way that is not meaningful in
my own country. I don't CARE if the word "kaffir" is a slur against ethnic Bantus in South Africa,
because I'm never going to go to South Africa and am most likely never going to meet a Bantu. The
thing is, many, many, many words used in one language or country has a different meaning if you go
to in a different language or country. Take for instance (since you are in the UK) the word
"fanny". It means "butt" in the US, and "pussy" over there. What about "shag"? Means a dance over
here, and "****" over there. And that barely even touches the surface of the problem.

I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that every word that I use is NOT,
in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group.

paghat wrote:

So anyone who wishes to clean the word "Kaffir Lily" out of their
personal
vocabulary because, hey, this is the world wide web, & it really is
like
hanging out at least partly in South Africa -- then for that choice I
say
"Ahu!", hooray!, how polite you are. But if someone just thinks it's
a
vulgar word in every context & nobody should use it anywhere ever who
isn't a racist, then to them I also say "Ahu!", stupid!

-paghat the ratgirl


Words are nothing but letters or sounds put together, depending on
whether you're writing or speaking. In and of themselves, those letters
or sounds are not offensive alone or together. Context makes them
offensive.

There is the context of the writer or speaker, and the context of the
reader or listener involved here. Some people are so offended when they
read or hear particular words that they can't or won't consider the
context of the writer or speaker.

My personal opinion is that our problems, in order of severity and
importantance a
1. Writers/speakers who intend their words to be offensive in
context,
2. Readers/listeners who are so offended by particular words that
they don't consider the writer/speaker's context,
3. Readers/listeners who misinterpret the writer/speaker's context,
4. Writers/speakers who don't take reasonable care to see that their
context is not easily misinterpreted to be offensive,
5. Writers/speakers and readers/listeners who aren't even aware that
they words could be offensive in certain contexts.

Unfortunately too many people focus on the least severe and important
situation. That means either the more severe and important issues have
been resolved (ha!), or they have nothing better to do than raise hell.
(Or perhaps they're not equipped to handle the more important issues,
and draw attention away from their inabilities by making such a big deal
over the less important issues.)

But it all still comes down to context. Words are just letters or
sounds. Context gives those words meaning. It is only once they have
meaning that they can be offensive.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:49:33 -0400, Darren Garrison
wrote:

I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that every word that I use is NOT,
in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group.

Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word
perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such
as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference).
How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our
educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary
school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words?

I know it is the parents responsibility to stop such hatred.
Unfortunately it isn't happening.

zhan

Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word
perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such
as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference).
How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our
educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary
school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words?

I saw a queer thing this morning. A frog was sitting on a dike. I asked him,
"How come you are sitting on your ass lookin' like Mick Jagger?" He told me
that a big rock fell out of the sky and hit the water right in front of him
it made a sound like "wop" and threw him up on the dike. Then along came a
possum and a coon and he was so scared he decided to spend the day until all
the big animals went away.

Words are just words until someone let's them get under their skin. Use 'em
right or use 'em wrong, but they're just words.

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 17:08:31 -0500, zhanataya wrote:

Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word
perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such
as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference).
How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our
educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary
school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words?

"Hate" is an emotion, not a word (okay, so "hate" IS a word, but you know what I mean). Just by
writing a word that somebody, somewhere conciders offensive does NOT mean that I hate anyone. And
my point is, the word "kaffir" has ABSOLUTELY NO MEANING to me, and I would be willing to bet that
it has no meaning to 99.99% of all people that I have ever met in my life (I did know one white
exchange student from Zimbabwae that may or may not have heard the word before).

To answer your question, NO, I am NOT going to stop using a word that I have used all of my life
just because it turns out that it has some impolite meaning in some distant country or at some time
in the distant past. (And, BTW, out of the list you gave above, the only one I use is "Frog" to
describe the French-- and it is because I WANT to insult the French). Ribbit!

On Sun, 4 Apr 2004 18:21:23 -0400, "Ricky" wrote:

I saw a _explitive_deleted_ thing this morning. A _explitive_deleted_ was sitting on a _explitive_deleted_. I asked him,
"How come you are sitting on your _explitive_deleted_ lookin' like _explitive_deleted_ Jagger?" He told me
that a big rock fell out of the sky and hit the water right in front of him
it made a sound like "_explitive_deleted_" and threw him up on the _explitive_deleted_. Then along came a
_explitive_deleted_ and a _explitive_deleted_ and he was so scared he decided to spend the day until all
the big animals went away.

Cleaned up so as to not offend thin-skinned morons.

zhanataya wrote:

....How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick?

It's not "dike", it's "dyke". I oughta know.

In article , zhanataya
wrote:

On Sun, 04 Apr 2004 16:49:33 -0400, Darren Garrison
wrote:

I, personally, neither have the time or the interest to make sure that
every word that I use is NOT,
in some language and in some country, offensive to some individual or group.

Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word
perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such
as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference).
How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our
educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary
school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words?

I know it is the parents responsibility to stop such hatred.
Unfortunately it isn't happening.

zhan

Dyke is a pretty word, a good word, a useful word; I used to stop around
Seattle in a leather jacket that said DYKE on the back, & it upset nobody.
My current jacket hasn't been decorated as I'm a bit old to ever again
feel like being fashionable. But I still wear my Sex Pistols, Neurosis, &
Dead Kennedys t-shirts, & they get more comments than ever did the Dyke
jacket.

Fact is, any word can be said with affection, you dear old kike you.
Anyone who can't figure that out has AT LEAST as much of a problem as
people who actually like the words, & very likely a bigger problem.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article , "Ricky"
wrote:

Interesting. To busy for common courtesy or respect. Any word
perceived as a hate word should be eliminated from common usage. Such
as, ******, Kaffir or Kafir (I used to think there was a difference).
How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick? Has our
educational system slipped so far that the graduates from elementary
school are unable to express themselves without the use of such words?

I saw a queer thing this morning. A frog was sitting on a dike. I asked him,
"How come you are sitting on your ass lookin' like Mick Jagger?" He told me
that a big rock fell out of the sky and hit the water right in front of him
it made a sound like "wop" and threw him up on the dike. Then along came a
possum and a coon and he was so scared he decided to spend the day until all
the big animals went away.

Words are just words until someone let's them get under their skin. Use 'em
right or use 'em wrong, but they're just words.

Right. The irony of any free speech argument being about what CANNOT be
said....well, yes, words are powerful, that's why people use them. Most
arguments for why not to express oneself in this manner is in reality an
argument to do so. Any one who can't tell the difference between "This is
my main ******" & "let's lynch some ******s" just isn't going to have any
ideas worthy of their right to free speech, but I uphold their sacred
right to be shallow & boring & call that "politeness" while impolitely
telling other people they're not shallow & boring enough. There is nver
anyone so far distant from polite who demands of others. In fact, now that
I think of it, of the words Cocksuck & Polite, Politis the dirtier word --
if one judges the context of the speakers demandin milquetoast behaviors &
anti-free-speech pseudo-politeness of others.There is only one good
argument for cleaning up one's image: "you're addressing children, so stop
being such a dirty ****." Adults telling adults how they have to speak is
totally lame.

"If President Kennedy got on television and said:'I'm considering
appointing two or three of the top ******s in the country to my
cabinet'-if it was nothing but ******, ******, ****** - in six months
****** wouldn't mean any more than good night, god bless you. when that
beautiful day comes, you'll never see another ****** kid come home from
school crying because some mother****er called him a ******." -Lenny Bruce

"I'm a ******," Lubel said fervently. "I'm a ******!" Confused, the three
teens looked at one another. One declared: "That ******'s crazy!"

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Judy wrote in :



zhanataya wrote:

....How about Wop, Dike, Queer, Kike, Frog, Coon Ass, Mick?

It's not "dike", it's "dyke". I oughta know.


no sense in using the wrong spelling to offend the lebanese folk

Thanks Janet. Actually I thought the kaffirs were the native-born whites, like
Afrikaaners. The Middle East and Central/Eastern Europe are more my territory
for unusual ethnic names (Quick: where can you find a Rusyn? Not a Russian, a
Rusyn.
zemedelec

Reading the above, the only conclusion I've managed to reach is that anyone
offended by any name must have a severe inferiority complex.
Others seem to imply "Complex be damned"!!
As a long serving member of the RWAFF
[Royal West African Frontier Force] on the Gold Coast,[now Ghana] I
accumulated numerous derogatory names, many quite true, but none that could
possibly have annoyed or offended me in any way. I cannot even think of any
term I would find offensive, true or not!!
Calling me an 'organic gardener' might imply some degree of unmerited
ignorance however.
Best Wishes
"Zemedelec" wrote in message
...
Thanks Janet. Actually I thought the kaffirs were the native-born whites,
like
Afrikaaners. The Middle East and Central/Eastern Europe are more my
territory
for unusual ethnic names (Quick: where can you find a Rusyn? Not a
Russian, a
Rusyn.
zemedelec

The message
from Darren Garrison contains these words:


I do not CARE if the word is offensive in some distant country in some
way that is not meaningful in my own country. I don't CARE if the
word "kaffir" is a slur against ethnic Bantus in South Africa, because
I'm never going to go to South Africa and am most likely never going
to meet a Bantu.

This is an international newsgroup with contributors from other
countries and many races.

Janet

Janet Baraclough.. wrote:

The message
from Darren Garrison contains these words:



I do not CARE if the word is offensive in some distant country in some
way that is not meaningful in my own country. I don't CARE if the
word "kaffir" is a slur against ethnic Bantus in South Africa, because
I'm never going to go to South Africa and am most likely never going
to meet a Bantu.


This is an international newsgroup with contributors from other
countries and many races.

Janet


But what is your point? No one here has said they were personally
offended, only *vicariously* offended. Not one single Bantu has spoken up
on this issue.

People in Quebec City find the entire English language offensive. Maybe we
should switch to French to avoid offending their sensibilities.

Sincèrement,
Bob