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Old 01-05-2004, 10:04 PM
Gwen Morse
 
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Default Unwanted Vines

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ren...&.dnm=2d13.jpg

Photo provided at yahoo photos (I hope, I've never posted there
before) as requested. Here's a repost of the problems...

I'd appreciate if anyone could identify this, it's an unwanted plant
that's growing on our property, from the property next door.

Effectively, it's a network of underground and barely-surface vines.
Diameters seem to range from reasonably slender (thinner than my
pinkie) to thicker around than my thumb (and I have thick thumbs ).
They're sort of 'woody' looking, with a thin layer of 'bark', or outer
skin of some sort. When snipped in half, they're a very clean white on
the inside, with no rings of color. The bark/skin is similar to the
texture of a very young sapling tree (thin and easy to 'peel' off).
Very sturdy roots several inches into the ground, about every 4-5
inches along the length of the vines in/on the ground.

The vines will grow 'up' and climb around any items that they're given
the chance to cover. In that case, they will produce shiny lighish
green leaves (very small). They'll spiral around other plants (which
will kill said plants as several individual shrubs in a short hedge
have been killed by this wrapping).

The spiraling shoots seem to be a secondary product of the vines.
Really, what they do is just cross and recross the dirt
(non-driveway/concrete-covered) parts of our yard. Because they grow
just under the surface of the soil (1" or so of dirt over them), or,
_just_ along the surface, we didn't really notice they had effectively
extended an interconnected 'net' of vines over our entire yard, till
we tried to pull up 'some', and suddenly determined they were all
over.

I'm a disinterested gardener at best. I like bulbs, because they're
colorful and still grow with zero upkeep from me (I don't bother to
dig them up and separate them, for example). I am, however, determined
to get rid of these vines.

I pulled as many as I could find out about five or six summers ago,
and they've spread back from the next property and taken over our
property during that time frame.

What I'd like to know is this: if we rent a gas tiller and 'till' all
the dirt (we live on 60' by 100', and most of that is house and
driveway, so, it's not much dirt to reclaim), and then rake out the
bits of vine, will that get all the vine that's presently in our dirt?
Can we rent tillers that will cut through vines this thick? If we get
rid of all the vines in our dirt and replant our grass, how do we keep
the vines from growing back again? The property next to ours is a
poorly-maintained rental property and the owners refuse to do anything
about the vines on their side. These same vines have already decimated
three generations of dividing fences (two on their side and one on our
side). Is there _anything_ I can do to discourage the vines from
encroaching on our property? Especially since we can't afford to
replace our chain-link fence _again_, but, it's looking dangerously
saggy where the vines are twisted around it and trying to pull it
down.

Chemical warfare suggestions will be considered, although, obviously
non-toxic options are preferred.

Gwen

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Old 01-05-2004, 11:02 PM
Gwen Morse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

On Sat, 01 May 2004 15:23:55 -0400, Gwen Morse
wrote:

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ren...&.dnm=2d13.jpg


Okay, the link seems to be either:
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/renniefan/

or:
http://photos.yahoo.com/renniefan/

There's two copies of the same picture up.

Gwen

  #3   Report Post  
Old 02-05-2004, 01:07 AM
David Hill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

It might make things easier if you had posted a picture of the leaves.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk




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Old 02-05-2004, 02:05 AM
Mike LaMana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

Need leaves or at least other aerial parts, but...my bet is Asiatic
bittersweet Celestrus orbiculatus

--
Mike LaMana, MS
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net



"Gwen Morse" wrote in message
...
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/ren...&.dnm=2d13.jpg

Photo provided at yahoo photos (I hope, I've never posted there
before) as requested. Here's a repost of the problems...

I'd appreciate if anyone could identify this, it's an unwanted plant
that's growing on our property, from the property next door.

Effectively, it's a network of underground and barely-surface vines.
Diameters seem to range from reasonably slender (thinner than my
pinkie) to thicker around than my thumb (and I have thick thumbs ).
They're sort of 'woody' looking, with a thin layer of 'bark', or outer
skin of some sort. When snipped in half, they're a very clean white on
the inside, with no rings of color. The bark/skin is similar to the
texture of a very young sapling tree (thin and easy to 'peel' off).
Very sturdy roots several inches into the ground, about every 4-5
inches along the length of the vines in/on the ground.

The vines will grow 'up' and climb around any items that they're given
the chance to cover. In that case, they will produce shiny lighish
green leaves (very small). They'll spiral around other plants (which
will kill said plants as several individual shrubs in a short hedge
have been killed by this wrapping).

The spiraling shoots seem to be a secondary product of the vines.
Really, what they do is just cross and recross the dirt
(non-driveway/concrete-covered) parts of our yard. Because they grow
just under the surface of the soil (1" or so of dirt over them), or,
_just_ along the surface, we didn't really notice they had effectively
extended an interconnected 'net' of vines over our entire yard, till
we tried to pull up 'some', and suddenly determined they were all
over.

I'm a disinterested gardener at best. I like bulbs, because they're
colorful and still grow with zero upkeep from me (I don't bother to
dig them up and separate them, for example). I am, however, determined
to get rid of these vines.

I pulled as many as I could find out about five or six summers ago,
and they've spread back from the next property and taken over our
property during that time frame.

What I'd like to know is this: if we rent a gas tiller and 'till' all
the dirt (we live on 60' by 100', and most of that is house and
driveway, so, it's not much dirt to reclaim), and then rake out the
bits of vine, will that get all the vine that's presently in our dirt?
Can we rent tillers that will cut through vines this thick? If we get
rid of all the vines in our dirt and replant our grass, how do we keep
the vines from growing back again? The property next to ours is a
poorly-maintained rental property and the owners refuse to do anything
about the vines on their side. These same vines have already decimated
three generations of dividing fences (two on their side and one on our
side). Is there _anything_ I can do to discourage the vines from
encroaching on our property? Especially since we can't afford to
replace our chain-link fence _again_, but, it's looking dangerously
saggy where the vines are twisted around it and trying to pull it
down.

Chemical warfare suggestions will be considered, although, obviously
non-toxic options are preferred.

Gwen



  #5   Report Post  
Old 02-05-2004, 06:04 AM
Gwen Morse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

On Sat, 1 May 2004 19:30:15 -0400, "Mike LaMana"
fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:

Need leaves or at least other aerial parts, but...my bet is Asiatic
bittersweet Celestrus orbiculatus


They don't have any leaves (yet).

What options do I have if they are the above?

Gwen



  #6   Report Post  
Old 02-05-2004, 04:03 PM
Mike LaMana
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

If I am right don't try to pull them up if the infestation is widespread -
they sucker like mad. I would spray the after they leaf out, but of course
this will kill the whole plane and the neighbor may not like that.

--
Mike LaMana, MS
Heartwood Consulting Services, LLC
Toms River, NJ
www.HeartwoodConsulting.net



"Gwen Morse" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 1 May 2004 19:30:15 -0400, "Mike LaMana"
fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:

Need leaves or at least other aerial parts, but...my bet is Asiatic
bittersweet Celestrus orbiculatus


They don't have any leaves (yet).

What options do I have if they are the above?

Gwen



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Old 02-05-2004, 04:05 PM
Jim Elbrecht
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

On Sat, 01 May 2004 23:13:12 -0400, Gwen Morse
wrote:

On Sat, 1 May 2004 19:30:15 -0400, "Mike LaMana"
fake@MikeatHeartwoodConsultingdotnet wrote:

Need leaves or at least other aerial parts, but...my bet is Asiatic
bittersweet Celestrus orbiculatus


They don't have any leaves (yet).


My wild guess is Virginia Creeper [Woodbine-- Parthenocissus
quinquefolia or P. inserta] , but it is just a wild guess.


When you write "network of underground and barely-surface vines" it
makes me think of Virginia Creeper.

But when you write "They'll spiral around other plants" it sounds like
bittersweet. If it is more a random matting with some light
twisting-- and maybe some suckers that attach to wood posts or
branches-- then I'd go with Virginia Creeper. But if it appears to be
actually 'choking' what it is climbing on I'd go for bittersweet.

If you've ever seen your plants leafed out, search for
Virginia Creeper
at http://images.google.com & see if it looks familiar. [red leaves in
fall-- some black berries late summer.]

The bittersweet has bright orange berries in the fall -- often seen in
fall bouquets in this part of the world. [northeast US]


What options do I have if they are the above?


Same thing as for the bittersweet vine, though with an uncooperative
neighbor, you're in for a life-long fight.

I had it on 2 wooded sides of my 1 acre property. I used roundup
where it was mixed with poison ivy & have used a 6 foot mowed buffer &
frequent attacks at runners to keep it at bay on the rest of my
property line. In 16 years I have been able to keep it within
reason, but if I ignore it for 3-4 years my property would be solid
'creeper'.

Jim
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Old 03-05-2004, 02:02 AM
Gwen M. Morse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines


If you've ever seen your plants leafed out, search for
Virginia Creeper
at http://images.google.com & see if it looks familiar. [red leaves in
fall-- some black berries late summer.]

The bittersweet has bright orange berries in the fall -- often seen in
fall bouquets in this part of the world. [northeast US]


I've never paid too much attention to the leaves but, I'll check once
they start to grow back this season.

I certainly don't remember seeing any sorts of berries.

What options do I have if they are the above?



Same thing as for the bittersweet vine, though with an uncooperative
neighbor, you're in for a life-long fight.


The property that the vines are coming from has just been sold, although
we don't know if it's still being kept as a rental property, or, if the
new owners are moving in to live there. With the latter situation, it
would be much more likely we could get them to help clear out the vines.

I had it on 2 wooded sides of my 1 acre property. I used roundup
where it was mixed with poison ivy & have used a 6 foot mowed buffer &
frequent attacks at runners to keep it at bay on the rest of my
property line. In 16 years I have been able to keep it within
reason, but if I ignore it for 3-4 years my property would be solid
'creeper'.


Just about the only _good_ thing about living on a property that's
60'x100' is that there's not much to maintaining it . If I had an acre
to try to recover, I think I'd let the vines have it!

So, I can spray it with Roundup? I bought a big container of that to
kill the weeds growing in between the concrete sections of my driveway.
Will that kill my lawn (I think the label said it would kill grass) too?
I mean, if I spray it on the vines? I won't necessarily "mind" if it
will kill patches of grass, I just want to be prepared.

And, "how" do I use it? Obviously, I spray it on the vines, but, can I
still continue to pull them out? Someone else in the group said not to
pull them, but, if I don't, then, I can't rake or mow (they catch both
the rake tines and the mower blades). Should I maybe pull what I can and
then spray Roundup on any bits that get left behind (to kill broken
roots that might make new plants)? I know I can spray the vines that are
wrapped around things (trees and fencing and stuff), but, I don't see
how I can spray the vines that are just under the surface of the ground
WITHOUT pulling them up.

Also, while I'm thinking of it, what if I bought _alot_ of Roundup and
put it in a big power sprayer and (with the permission of the neighbors)
went next door and sprayed the zones that the vines are coming from?
Would that completely kill them in those areas, or, just the ones
exposed on the surface? If I did that a few times during the season
would it be likely to actually 'kill' them completely?

The areas the vines are coming from are quite literally "just" vines and
sapling/small trees, with maybe some scraggy underbrush plants. If I
could effectively kill them in the 'nest' it might make recovering my
property bordes that much easier.

Gwen

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Old 03-05-2004, 02:04 AM
David Hill
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

".............If I am right don't try to pull them up if the infestation is
widespread -they sucker like mad. I would spray the after they leaf out, but
of course this will kill the whole plane and the neighbour may not like
that. .............."

Chop through them along the boundary with a spade then spray your growth,
this way it cant get back to your neighbours plant.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk




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Old 03-05-2004, 04:02 AM
Gwen M. Morse
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

David Hill wrote:
".............If I am right don't try to pull them up if the infestation is
widespread -they sucker like mad. I would spray the after they leaf out, but
of course this will kill the whole plane and the neighbour may not like
that. .............."

Chop through them along the boundary with a spade then spray your growth,
this way it cant get back to your neighbours plant.


What's meant by the 'whole plane' and why do I care if it's killed?

Gwen




  #11   Report Post  
Old 03-05-2004, 02:02 PM
Pat Kiewicz
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

Mike LaMana said:

If I am right don't try to pull them up if the infestation is widespread -
they sucker like mad. I would spray the after they leaf out, but of course
this will kill the whole plane and the neighbor may not like that.


If you can trench along the property line and cut all your vines free from
the neighbor's, you can safely use a systemic herbicide like Roundup on your
property without causing any dieback of the neighbor's vines (that's assuming
no spray drift). It may take several treatments and will require constant vigilence
as the vines will continue to encroach from next door.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

  #12   Report Post  
Old 04-05-2004, 08:02 AM
gregpresley
 
Posts: n/a
Default Unwanted Vines

I would add that you could or should sink a barrier in the trench -
preferable metal or very thick plastic - and as deep as you can dig. Most
perennials shoot their traveling root systems no deeper than 8-12 inches, so
if your barrier is deeper than that, you should be able to contain the horde
from the neighbor.
"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Mike LaMana said:

If I am right don't try to pull them up if the infestation is

widespread -
they sucker like mad. I would spray the after they leaf out, but of

course
this will kill the whole plane and the neighbor may not like that.


If you can trench along the property line and cut all your vines free from
the neighbor's, you can safely use a systemic herbicide like Roundup on

your
property without causing any dieback of the neighbor's vines (that's

assuming
no spray drift). It may take several treatments and will require constant

vigilence
as the vines will continue to encroach from next door.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)



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