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How to keep raccoons away
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How to keep raccoons away
"Adam Russell" wrote in message ...
"Snooze" wrote in message . com... Don't let your kids wear wool socks on a low humidity day...imagine what would happen if they discovered they can shuffle around the house and zap each other with a few thousand volts. A typical static electricity shock is about 2000 - 4000 volts. Of course a amperage involved is so low, that aside from the surprise, no damage is done. Ever taken a weak 9v battery and tapped it against your tongue? A fresh battery hurts a little, but a weak one gives a little tingling sensation. A consumer grade electric fence is harmless, it will give a mild shock, but nothing dangerous. I couldn't find the specifications online, so guestimating, if an electric fence transformer draws 120v A/C @ 1 amp, the output would be 4000 v A/C at .03 amp. That's just a mild shocker, pretty safe..if it was D/C on the otherhand is a different story. You dont know much about electricity it appears. Static electricity is completely different from transformer electricity. When you get a shock from static electricity it is 2-4k for only an extreme fraction of a second. I dont remember how short exactly (1ms comes to mind), but it is the brevity that saves you. As it swiftly runs out of electrons the voltage falls to zero. Somehow I doubt it's the brevity that makes static electricity harmless. I've played around with battery-powered circuits that work by delivering pulses of electricity to the subject when the current through a circuit containing an inductor is interrupted (for example, the gag lighters that shock people work this way). Whatever current is flowing through the inductor gets sent through the subject for a short period of time. It's relatively safe because the peak amperage is controlled. If you hook up a resistor in series with the subject, the maximum current doesn't change, but the pulses get shorter. When you do this, the pain falls off, but the response from your muscles doesn't change as much. Eventually, especially if the contact area between the electrodes and the skin is large, you can produce involuntary muscle contractions with little or no pain. Given that the heart is a muscle, I would think that a few seconds of current would be better than a few milliseconds if the goal was to produce pain without rendering any permanent harm. I could be wrong, but if I had to guess, I'd say the reason static electricity isn't harmful is because most of the voltage is across the air gap, not across your body. Also, the charge is entirely on your skin, and most is probably very close to the spot where you're about to touch something, so practically no current is going through your heart. Power out of your wall does not fall off. At all. That 120v will deliver 1mA or 15A depending on the resistance of what you are powering and only limited by your circuit breaker or fuse. If you were to put a penny in the fusebox it could deliver 1000's of amps with no problem except that the wires would get hot. So putting it through a transformer will not reduce the amperage available to any safe amount. 4000v will kill you, and it matters not whether it is DC or AC. Surely it couldn't be very difficult to have a device of some sort in the circuit to control the maximum current. At the very least, couldn't he just put an appropriate fuse in the circuit, if there wasn't one already? Now as to the matter of electric fences, when I was a child my grandpa told me to stay away from the electric fence surrounding the cow field. He said it would kick me like a sledgehammer. He could have been pulling my leg, but I imagine that anything meant to coerce a cow would hurt a human. OTOH, a raccoon is not a cow. The question is open whether you could make a fence with enough jolt to keep out racoons but not enough to hurt 3 year olds. I personally doubt it. There's almost one order of magnitude between the current needed to cause pain and the current that's large enough to be dangerous. The fact that the area of contact with the wire is small, and a three-year old is larger than a racoon, ought to make the range of safety even broader. |
How to keep raccoons away
Jim Black wrote: Somehow I doubt it's the brevity that makes static electricity harmless. Who said static electricity is harmless? Lightning is static electricity, but I don't see many people standing outside in a thunderstorm. |
How to keep raccoons away
But what do I tell customer service if the cocktail holder breaks!?!?
:) "Doug Kanter" pontificated wisely that: "rot13 (Kevin Miller)" wrote in message ... I would not use an electric fence with a 3 year old kid in the house. Given that the racoons are nocturnal you would only need to turn the fence on at night when presumably your 3yr old would be inside. You have just won a virtual cocktail for noticing something nobody else did. Place glass in CD-ROM drawer and hit: CTRL-M (for real beer - Molson) CTRL-B (for water - i.e.: Budweiser) CTRL-J (for Jack Daniels) Kevin Miller (rot13) http://www.net1plus.com/users/miller9 |
How to keep raccoons away
Ignoramus27199 pontificated wisely
that: In article , rot13 wrote: Given that the racoons are nocturnal you would only need to turn the fence on at night when presumably your 3yr old would be inside. I can second the recommendation for Premier. Their customer reps are very helpful and knowledgable. I called when I was setting up fencing for our goats planning on getting a fancy combination of electric twine, HT wire, fiberglass line posts, metal corner t-posts and a solar-battery energizer. After asking what I wanted the fencing for their rep suggested electric netting, some plastic corner posts and an energizer with 9v alkaline battery. Saved me a bunch of money and I've been very happy with the system. You see, my spouse would never agree to it no matter what physics based explanations I offer. I hear ya, but things do sometimes change. My wife would never agree to any kind of gun around, until she chased a fox away from her hen house. Then I discovered that our state laws were such that an air rifle was the only practical solution. Kevin Miller (rot13) http://www.net1plus.com/users/miller9 |
How to keep raccoons away
In article , Advanced Priority
wrote: Jim Black wrote: Somehow I doubt it's the brevity that makes static electricity harmless. Who said static electricity is harmless? Lightning is static electricity, but I don't see many people standing outside in a thunderstorm. How well I remember shuffling across the carpet & pointing my finger at my sister's head, giggling until -- FLASH! -- both of us fell into fits of tears. And that's why to this day I have but nine fingers & my sister went blind & became bald for life. -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/ |
How to keep raccoons away
Advanced Priority wrote in message ...
Jim Black wrote: Somehow I doubt it's the brevity that makes static electricity harmless. Who said static electricity is harmless? Lightning is static electricity, but I don't see many people standing outside in a thunderstorm. Oops ... but you know what I meant -- static electricity at around 2000 - 4000 volts, as was being discussed. Practically everything is lethal if you get enough of it. |
How to keep raccoons away
"Adam Russell" wrote in message ... You dont know much about electricity it appears. Static electricity is completely different from transformer electricity. When you get a shock from static electricity it is 2-4k for only an extreme fraction of a second. I dont remember how short exactly (1ms comes to mind), but it is the brevity that saves you. As it swiftly runs out of electrons the voltage falls to zero. Power out of your wall does not fall off. At all. That 120v will deliver 1mA or 15A depending on the resistance of what you are powering and only limited by your circuit breaker or fuse. If you were to put a penny in the fusebox it could deliver 1000's of amps with no problem except that the wires would get hot. So putting it through a transformer will not reduce the amperage available to any safe amount. 4000v will kill you, and it matters not whether it is DC or AC. Now as to the matter of electric fences, when I was a child my grandpa told me to stay away from the electric fence surrounding the cow field. He said it would kick me like a sledgehammer. He could have been pulling my leg, but I imagine that anything meant to coerce a cow would hurt a human. OTOH, a raccoon is not a cow. The question is open whether you could make a fence with enough jolt to keep out racoons but not enough to hurt 3 year olds. I personally doubt it. Most fence chargers work on pulses. You get zapped, but that's all it is...a zap. You have plenty of time to let go before it sends another pulse...and you tend to let go in a hurry. A 3 year old would be fine with the fence...just like the cows...one zap and they develop a healthy respect for it. jena |
How to keep raccoons away
"JMartin" wrote in message Most fence chargers work on pulses. You get
zapped, but that's all it is...a zap. You have plenty of time to let go before it sends another pulse...and you tend to let go in a hurry. Very true unless you're like me. A number of years ago I kept a horse at a neighboring property, the field surrounded by an electric fence about two feet off the ground. In a small area with a lump in the ground, I would step over the fence to take a shortcut to the barn. Once, in shorts my inner thigh caught the fence. As I danced back and forth, getting each leg, I finally jumped high enough to clear it. It hurt but more of a slap/surprise kind of hurt. I must have looked so silly dancing over that fence grin Sue Northern Wisconsin |
How to keep raccoons away
paghat wrote: How well I remember shuffling across the carpet & pointing my finger at my sister's head, giggling until -- FLASH! -- both of us fell into fits of tears. And that's why to this day I have but nine fingers & my sister went blind & became bald for life. -paghat the ratgirl Did your sister become a lesbian, too? |
How to keep raccoons away
Did a quick search. Your town justice had it right. Here is the URL
for the applicable NY state reg, section 11-0523: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/d...ife/damage.htm "Doug Kanter" pontificated wisely that: "rot13 (Kevin Miller)" wrote in message ... Also be sure to carefully check your local hunting regulations. Many places, including MA, have an "exemption" to the hunting season rules that give property owners the right to destroy wildlife in the act of causing damage or threatening personal safety. That's interesting. Our town justice used to be my son's baseball coach, so we had lots of time to shoot the breeze. Once, I was having serious problems with a couple of dogs destroying vegetable plants (digging within the garden). The judge told me that as long as I did not violate firearms laws, it was legal to "reeducate" (i.e.: kill) such dogs. A couple of people who are not in a position to know these things argued with me about this, and asked me to confirm it. I was unable to find this in our town's statutes. Perhaps it's a NY state statute. I believe what the judge told me, but still....it's interesting to know where these things are written, for both practical AND historical reasons. Kevin Miller (rot13) http://www.net1plus.com/users/miller9 |
How to keep raccoons away
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How to keep raccoons away
Richard Cline wrote in
: In article , (rot13) wrote: I am reminded of a neighbor of mine who found a couple large stray dogs in his yard. He called animal control and asked them to come and pick up the dogs. They told him that they were unable to come to his house. He replied that that was no problem, he would simply shoot the dogs. They told him that it was against the law. He explained that the stray dogs were attacking his dog and he would shoot the strays as a means of protecting his dog. The animal control people arrived within ten minutes. Dick This reminds me of a neighbor a few years ago when he saw two kids breaking into his storage building. When he called the police he was told they didn't have a car ton send right away, but would get there when they cvould. He called them back in a couple of minutes and told them not to hurry that he just shot the two intruders. They show up in about 3 minutes and caught the two kids. The police ask why he lied about shooting the kids. He said well I got lied to by you when you said you had no car to send out. That's interesting. Our town justice used to be my son's baseball coach, so we had lots of time to shoot the breeze. Once, I was having serious problems with a couple of dogs destroying vegetable plants (digging within the garden). The judge told me that as long as I did not violate firearms laws, it was legal to "reeducate" (i.e.: kill) such dogs. A couple of people who are not in a position to know these things argued with me about this, and asked me to confirm it. I was unable to find this in our town's statutes. Perhaps it's a NY state statute. I believe what the judge told me, but still....it's interesting to know where these things are written, for both practical AND historical reasons. |
How to keep raccoons away
"Fay" wrote in message
... Richard Cline wrote in : In article , (rot13) wrote: I am reminded of a neighbor of mine who found a couple large stray dogs in his yard. He called animal control and asked them to come and pick up the dogs. They told him that they were unable to come to his house. He replied that that was no problem, he would simply shoot the dogs. They told him that it was against the law. He explained that the stray dogs were attacking his dog and he would shoot the strays as a means of protecting his dog. The animal control people arrived within ten minutes. Dick This reminds me of a neighbor a few years ago when he saw two kids breaking into his storage building. When he called the police he was told they didn't have a car ton send right away, but would get there when they cvould. He called them back in a couple of minutes and told them not to hurry that he just shot the two intruders. They show up in about 3 minutes and caught the two kids. The police ask why he lied about shooting the kids. He said well I got lied to by you when you said you had no car to send out. Sounds like Krispy Kreme syndrome. |
How to keep raccoons away
"Fay" wrote in message ... snip This reminds me of a neighbor a few years ago when he saw two kids breaking into his storage building. When he called the police he was told they didn't have a car ton send right away, but would get there when they cvould. He called them back in a couple of minutes and told them not to hurry that he just shot the two intruders. They show up in about 3 minutes and caught the two kids. The police ask why he lied about shooting the kids. Filing a false report usually has a stiff penalty. How did you avoid being charged? He said well I got lied to by you when you said you had no car to send out. Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't justify your crime this way. |
How to keep raccoons away
On 10 May 2004 13:54:25 GMT, someone wrote:
Can I simply buy a raccoon trap and transport a few away from my property? Sure, if you want to do that every night until you have taught all the racoons in the neighborhood not to go in the traps. But that won't keep them out of your garden. You sure this aint just a troll???? -v. |
How to keep raccoons away
Doug Kanter wrote: "Max" wrote in message ... In article , "Joseph Meehan" wrote: that's upsetting that they can climb. They live in trees. They are also very good at opening gates and latches. They can quickly learn to turn standard door handles. They are not too good at picking locks, but some primates can do that. ahem.. cough [tap tap] THEY HAVE HANDS!!! .max They also have a sense of humor. While camping in the Catskills many years ago, my wife & I watched as some knucklehead set up a screen house, and inside it, two sets of collapsible plastic shelves onto which he placed what appeared to be enough snacks for an army. Lots of chips, cookies, cereal, etc. The ranger warned the dummy about wildlife, but I guess he decided the ranger didn't know what he was talking about. Around 2:00 AM, there was lots of crashing & interesting animal sounds. Two raccoons had bitten through the screen and knocked over the shelves. When the guy got up the nerve to come out of his tent, the creatures were still inside having a feast, while they watched the guy run around outside the screen house yelling. The feast continued for about an hour until the ranger finally came over and urged them (with a stick) to go elsewhere. He then evicted the camper. LOL at coons. When still in Illinois I had tossed a bunch of Halloween suckers in the trash that the ants had gotten into. The next morning I found a pile of sucker sticks in the yard! I laughed for days at the mental picture of these coons sucking on suckers in the yard. :) amy |
How to keep raccoons away
Marcy Hege wrote: Weird racoons may be displaying signs of rabies. Not an animal to be messed with when acting weird! I definitely wouldn't have a child anywhere around if I was trying to deal with a caged "weird" racoon. Amen! Coons and skunks or any nocturnal animals observed active in the DAYTIME should be treated as rabid. amy |
How to keep raccoons away
Doug Kanter wrote: "Ignoramus15189" wrote in message ... In article , Doug Kanter wrote: Sharpen your spade and make a "slot" into the ground all along the bottom of the existing fence. Insert fence wire as deep as possible, and attach the I am sorry for my stupid question, but what is fence wire? Galvanized wire screen that you buy in rolls. It's available with openings of various sizes. It'll be obvious which size to get. top of the wire to the chain link fence. This still leaves the top of the fence vulnerable though, and raccoons can definitely climb. that's upsetting that they can climb. It's not upsetting to the raccoons. :-) A Havahart trap is a good idea, too, but you might want to have your local animal control people assist. Raccoons can get weird.... I can get weird too, I am not afraid of raccoons. In order to release an animal from a Havahart trap, your hands will be right ON the trap as you open the end. You didn't say whether you've seen raccoons on your property during daylight hours, but if you have, it's assumed they may be rabid. Animal control people may have equipment which allows them to keep a little more distance during the release. Animal control capturing a coon in the daytime is NOT going to release it. It will be destroyed....unless someone is exposed...then it will be destroyed and the head sent to the lab to test for rabies. amy ex-animal control Besides...if you have to "get weird" to keep from being bitten, it might mean hurting the animal. The issue is, are there so many local raccoons that trapping them is a waste of time? Do they migrate? For example, obviously, trapping birds is a waste of time since they propagate everywhere. But, if I could trap, say, 3-5 raccoons, would it actually help? Beats me. I lived in a semi-city neighborhood where we'd only see one or two per year. No idea what your area is like. Take a walk, look for other vegetable gardens, and knock on the owners' doors & ask them. Another suggestion I've heard is to plant prickly stuff around the crops that interest the raccoon. Zucchini and other squashes have abrasive stems that some raccoons won't step through. And, you didn't mention how far your fence is from the garden. If it's possible to plant shrubs that'll end up being 3-4' in diameter, and still leave room for YOU to work, you might consider barberry. Nothing gets past that bush without severe lacerations. That's why birds hang out in them and laugh at the cats. no space for that, unfortunately. Too bad. It's fun to watch dogs crash into barberry bushes. |
How to keep raccoons away
Bill Spohn wrote: I would not use an electric fence with a 3 year old kid in the house. Gee - even the coons only touch it about once - most kids should be at least as smart....;-) Agreed. I grew up with electric fences. Although we did have one ditz sister who could ALWAYS be convinced "the fence wasn't on but would she go check it for us?" :) amy |
How to keep raccoons away
Anthony Aversano wrote: On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:25:31 GMT, "Doug Kanter" wrote: "Ignoramus15189" wrote in message ... In article , Doug Kanter wrote: "Ignoramus15189" wrote in message ... forgot to say, trapping and releasing raccoons would be educational for my 3 year old son. Is it an ego thing, or is there some other reason you don't want to enlist your local animal control people? I hate spending money on various contractors. Hiring contractors is an unbelievable waste of time and money. Are we on the same planet? I'm referring to your TOWN'S animal control department. I've never heard of those people charging a citizen for removing an animal. Where I live (a little north of Seattle, Washington) you have to pay for this service unless you can show they are injured or diseased. I had a family of 4 destroying my ponds last year and was told to either live with it or pay the cities subcontractor $300 to remove them. And keep paying about $75 per animal after that as new ones arrived to fill the created void. Tony THAT sucks! Ya'll should pay more taxes. :) amy |
How to keep raccoons away
Adam Russell wrote: "Snooze" wrote in message . com... "Adam Russell" wrote in message ... Evolution in action. He'll either learn what futility is, or he'll actually educate himself on electric fences and not subscribe to ignorant hysteria. I'll bet he's even touched his tongue to a battery as a child, but somehow he thinks that should have electrocuted him. I'm pretty sure it takes more than 9v to scare off a racoon. So how much voltage would you use that would do the job but not hurt the child? I know you can die from as little as 50v. Even less if you got imaginative. Don't let your kids wear wool socks on a low humidity day...imagine what would happen if they discovered they can shuffle around the house and zap each other with a few thousand volts. A typical static electricity shock is about 2000 - 4000 volts. Of course a amperage involved is so low, that aside from the surprise, no damage is done. Ever taken a weak 9v battery and tapped it against your tongue? A fresh battery hurts a little, but a weak one gives a little tingling sensation. A consumer grade electric fence is harmless, it will give a mild shock, but nothing dangerous. I couldn't find the specifications online, so guestimating, if an electric fence transformer draws 120v A/C @ 1 amp, the output would be 4000 v A/C at .03 amp. That's just a mild shocker, pretty safe..if it was D/C on the otherhand is a different story. You dont know much about electricity it appears. Static electricity is completely different from transformer electricity. When you get a shock from static electricity it is 2-4k for only an extreme fraction of a second. I dont remember how short exactly (1ms comes to mind), but it is the brevity that saves you. As it swiftly runs out of electrons the voltage falls to zero. Power out of your wall does not fall off. At all. That 120v will deliver 1mA or 15A depending on the resistance of what you are powering and only limited by your circuit breaker or fuse. If you were to put a penny in the fusebox it could deliver 1000's of amps with no problem except that the wires would get hot. So putting it through a transformer will not reduce the amperage available to any safe amount. 4000v will kill you, and it matters not whether it is DC or AC. Now as to the matter of electric fences, when I was a child my grandpa told me to stay away from the electric fence surrounding the cow field. He said it would kick me like a sledgehammer. He could have been pulling my leg, but I imagine that anything meant to coerce a cow would hurt a human. OTOH, a raccoon is not a cow. The question is open whether you could make a fence with enough jolt to keep out racoons but not enough to hurt 3 year olds. I personally doubt it. The electic fence wouldn't have kicked you like a sledgehammer. I saw more reaction from guys peeing on it than my blonde sister grabbing it to see if it was alive. Incidentally, she was also the same one that ALWAYS tested the batteries.....and she's alive and well. :) amy |
How to keep raccoons away
In article , Amy D
wrote: You may speak for the animal control where you worked but you do not speak for all animal control agencies. Our local control will release the animal several miles from its capture point. Dick Animal control capturing a coon in the daytime is NOT going to release it. It will be destroyed....unless someone is exposed...then it will be destroyed and the head sent to the lab to test for rabies. amy ex-animal control |
How to keep raccoons away
Xref: kermit rec.gardens:278970 misc.rural:131630 misc.consumers.house:106471 alt.home.repair:477437
Richard Cline wrote: In article , Amy D wrote: You may speak for the animal control where you worked but you do not speak for all animal control agencies. Our local control will release the animal several miles from its capture point. Dick Are you telling me your animal control will release a racoon captured in the daytime? amy Animal control capturing a coon in the daytime is NOT going to release it. It will be destroyed....unless someone is exposed...then it will be destroyed and the head sent to the lab to test for rabies. amy ex-animal control |
How to keep raccoons away
"Amy D" wrote in message
... In order to release an animal from a Havahart trap, your hands will be right ON the trap as you open the end. You didn't say whether you've seen raccoons on your property during daylight hours, but if you have, it's assumed they may be rabid. Animal control people may have equipment which allows them to keep a little more distance during the release. Animal control capturing a coon in the daytime is NOT going to release it. It will be destroyed....unless someone is exposed...then it will be destroyed and the head sent to the lab to test for rabies. Correct. I was mixing two ideas in too large of a bowl. :-) |
How to keep raccoons away
Curiousity got the better of me ...
Safest is a battery-powered, pulsing (as opposed to continuous) electric fence controller bearing Underwriters Laboratories label ANSI/UL69 (Electric Rence Contollers) One town's regulations specified that the current pulse a maximum of 60 times a minute with the duration of each pulse a max of 1/10 second and be 25 milliamps or less. This is on the high side; the newer controllers have pulse duration around 1/1000 second. Voltages seem to run in the 5K-7K range. The shorter pulse duration also has the advantage of not heating dried vegetation to combustion temperature. |
How to keep raccoons away
"William W. Plummer" wrote in
news:JVLoc.660$Dz.92685@attbi_s52: "Fay" wrote in message ... snip This reminds me of a neighbor a few years ago when he saw two kids breaking into his storage building. When he called the police he was told they didn't have a car ton send right away, but would get there when they cvould. He called them back in a couple of minutes and told them not to hurry that he just shot the two intruders. They show up in about 3 minutes and caught the two kids. The police ask why he lied about shooting the kids. Filing a false report usually has a stiff penalty. How did you avoid being charged? He said well I got lied to by you when you said you had no car to send out. Two wrongs don't make a right. You can't justify your crime this way. Why not? Flimsier excuses have been used to justify more obvious crimes. Would it have been better to just shoot the kids? You don't have to kill them, just a couple of bullets in the legs. They'll have a harder time stealing next time, gimping around being crippled and what not. Of course if you're a bad shot and hit one in the head, save it for the judge. |
How to keep raccoons away
"Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Are we on the same planet? I'm referring to your TOWN'S animal control department. I've never heard of those people charging a citizen for removing an animal. It's not unheard of. We had a baby raccoon trapped in our garage behind pegboard last summer. The town wouldn't touch the situation and referred us to a private contractor. Cost us $145 to have the guy take it out and release it in our yard. BTW, after seeing how pi$$ed off that animal was, there's no way I'd try to release one from a trap myself. And this was a raccoon that was only about 3 months old. Better left to professionals. -- JennP. |
How to keep raccoons away
I'd have spent a dollar on letting the car idle for a half gallon of gas, or
so, then removed the carcass..... Mark (just trying to save you $144 next time) Dunning "JennP" wrote in message news:4Sdrc.767$JC5.195590@attbi_s54... "Doug Kanter" wrote in message ... Are we on the same planet? I'm referring to your TOWN'S animal control department. I've never heard of those people charging a citizen for removing an animal. It's not unheard of. We had a baby raccoon trapped in our garage behind pegboard last summer. The town wouldn't touch the situation and referred us to a private contractor. Cost us $145 to have the guy take it out and release it in our yard. BTW, after seeing how pi$$ed off that animal was, there's no way I'd try to release one from a trap myself. And this was a raccoon that was only about 3 months old. Better left to professionals. -- JennP. |
How to keep raccoons away
On Sat, 22 May 2004 03:16:52 GMT, "mark dunning"
wrote: I'd have spent a dollar on letting the car idle for a half gallon of gas, or so, then removed the carcass..... Mark (just trying to save you $144 next time) Dunning reading in misc.rural. fun part is that depending on how new the car is, that might not work. since about 1995, the car computers have been smart enough to stop the engine when the oxygen level falls below 16% or so...and with the modern cat cons, that might not have the carbon monoxide level high enough for more than a head ache. ck -- country doc in louisiana (no fancy sayings right now) |
How to keep raccoons away
"charles krin" wrote in message ... | On Sat, 22 May 2004 03:16:52 GMT, "mark dunning" | wrote: | | I'd have spent a dollar on letting the car idle for a half gallon of gas, or | so, then removed the carcass..... | | Mark (just trying to save you $144 next time) Dunning | | reading in misc.rural. | | fun part is that depending on how new the car is, that might not work. | since about 1995, the car computers have been smart enough to stop the | engine when the oxygen level falls below 16% or so...and with the | modern cat cons, that might not have the carbon monoxide level high | enough for more than a head ache. Actually the variation in O2 levels as controlled by the computer is not that great. Regardless it is the blood's affinity for CO that is the danger and CO levels way lower than can be minimally produced by an internal combustion engine are sufficient to kill after prolonged exposure. The key is time. I should also mention that CO is heavier than O2 so the atmosphere at the bottom of the rat hole will be have increasingly concentrated CO levels. If all else fails the critter will have one h*ll of a head ache. |
How to keep raccoons away
Not Me wrote:
snip I should also mention that CO is heavier than O2 so the atmosphere at the bottom of the rat hole will be have increasingly concentrated CO levels. If all else fails the critter will have one h*ll of a head ache. C = 12, O = 16, N = 14 CO = 28, O2 = 32, N2 = 28 R, Tom Q. |
How to keep raccoons away
"Tom Quackenbush" | I should also mention that CO is heavier than O2 so the atmosphere | at the bottom of the rat hole will be have increasingly concentrated CO | levels. If all else fails the critter will have one h*ll of a head ache. | | C = 12, O = 16, N = 14 | | CO = 28, O2 = 32, N2 = 28 The real world physics/dynamics is not quite that simple but sufficient to say CO is heavier than air and will settle to the lowest level i.e. the bottom of the rat hole. |
How to keep raccoons away
Not Me wrote:
"Tom Quackenbush" | I should also mention that CO is heavier than O2 so the atmosphere | at the bottom of the rat hole will be have increasingly concentrated CO | levels. If all else fails the critter will have one h*ll of a head ache. | | C = 12, O = 16, N = 14 | | CO = 28, O2 = 32, N2 = 28 The real world physics/dynamics is not quite that simple but sufficient to say CO is heavier than air and will settle to the lowest level i.e. the bottom of the rat hole. Are you sure you're not thinking of CO2? Carbon monoxide is obviously lighter than air (but not by much). If you don't believe me, Google for "carbon monoxide lighter air". R, Tom Q. |
How to keep raccoons away
"Not Me" wrote in message ... "Tom Quackenbush" | I should also mention that CO is heavier than O2 so the atmosphere | at the bottom of the rat hole will be have increasingly concentrated CO | levels. If all else fails the critter will have one h*ll of a head ache. | | C = 12, O = 16, N = 14 | | CO = 28, O2 = 32, N2 = 28 The real world physics/dynamics is not quite that simple but sufficient to say CO is heavier than air and will settle to the lowest level i.e. the bottom of the rat hole. Brownian motion will cause gases to mix. You don't see the O2 and N2 that compose most of our "air" separating. |
How to keep raccoons away
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"William W. Plummer" wrote in news:yPntc.35081$af3.1824427@attbi_s51: "Not Me" wrote in message ... "Tom Quackenbush" | I should also mention that CO is heavier than O2 so the | atmosphere | at the bottom of the rat hole will be have increasingly | concentrated CO levels. If all else fails the critter will have | one h*ll of a head ache. | | C = 12, O = 16, N = 14 | | CO = 28, O2 = 32, N2 = 28 The real world physics/dynamics is not quite that simple but sufficient to say CO is heavier than air and will settle to the lowest level i.e. the bottom of the rat hole. Brownian motion will cause gases to mix. You don't see the O2 and N2 that compose most of our "air" separating. But isn't it true that there exists some "heavy" gas that will tend to collect at a lowest elevation? I don't remember exactly what carbon monoxide does, but it's possible that I've also heard that it sinks (compared to say something like helium which obviously wants to rise). The question is whether CO is one of those gases. |
How to keep raccoons away
On Wed, 26 May 2004 08:23:48 -0400, "Not Me" wrote:
Actually the variation in O2 levels as controlled by the computer is not that great. Regardless it is the blood's affinity for CO that is the danger and CO levels way lower than can be minimally produced by an internal combustion engine are sufficient to kill after prolonged exposure. The key is time. I should also mention that CO is heavier than O2 so the atmosphere at the bottom of the rat hole will be have increasingly concentrated CO levels. If all else fails the critter will have one h*ll of a head ache. actually, carbon monoxide, at mol wt 28 (same as N2) is slightly lighter than air (avg formula wt approx 30). and there have been a number of documented human survivors from failed CO suicide attempts because the engines shut down before the air in the garage became lethal. and cigarette smokers frequently tolerate levels of carboxy hemoglobin that would debilitate folks who didn't smoke. ck -- country doc in louisiana (no fancy sayings right now) |
How to keep raccoons away
On Thu, 27 May 2004 16:36:23 GMT, Salty Thumb
wrote: But isn't it true that there exists some "heavy" gas that will tend to collect at a lowest elevation? I don't remember exactly what carbon monoxide does, but it's possible that I've also heard that it sinks (compared to say something like helium which obviously wants to rise). The question is whether CO is one of those gases. Is not...Oxygen (O2, molecular wt 32) will settle slowly...Carbon Dioxide (CO2, molecular wt 44) settles fairly well...Propane (C3H8, also molecular wt 44), settles well enough to cause major problems if a leak occurs. ck -- country doc in louisiana (no fancy sayings right now) |
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