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Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
Does anyone know of any research that has been done on the potential for
contracting mad cow disease from using bone meal or blood meal as a soil amendment for veggies or herbs. That is, assuming no direct contact with the stuff. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
"George Orwell" wrote in message
... Does anyone know of any research that has been done on the potential for contracting mad cow disease from using bone meal or blood meal as a soil amendment for veggies or herbs. That is, assuming no direct contact with the stuff. Human CJD has been attributed to eating beef contaminated with brain or spinal cord material (where the harmful prions live.) If you do not eat garden bone meal, you need not fear it as a disease vector. -- Don Phillipson Carlsbad Springs (Ottawa, Canada) |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
George Orwell wrote: Does anyone know of any research that has been done on the potential for contracting mad cow disease from using bone meal or blood meal as a soil amendment for veggies or herbs. That is, assuming no direct contact with the stuff. Take peak at http://www.newscientist.com/hottopic...d=HOOGIMOCHNGF On a rainy day! Bill -- "No Progress without contraries" William Blake. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article , George Orwell
wrote: Does anyone know of any research that has been done on the potential for contracting mad cow disease from using bone meal or blood meal as a soil amendment for veggies or herbs. That is, assuming no direct contact with the stuff. Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. It is believed they inhaled the initial prion infection while spreading bone meal in their gardens. Agricultural lobby & spin doctors have hired scientific spokespersons to state pretty much "there is no evidence that BSE can infect humans by inhaling bone meal." The guys hired to say this usually have five or six degrees in science, but never did any actual studies, & get paid by Agribusiness which uses bonemeal. It remains that the four cases in England have never been explained by any alternative theory, since those four gardeners had not been exposed to infected meat. It is also not being studied to what degree the BSE prions can be absorbed, unaltered, into edible tubors & plants --thus entering the food chain even for vegetarians. It is theoretically possible, but it isn't being studied, so there is no evidence one way or the other. The prions have reached the bone meal product by several methods. While it is no longer legal to put infected sheep & cattle meat in feeds for dogs, cats, pigs, or cattle, it is still legal to make a rendering product from waste meats that are not to be used as animal feeds. BSE infects game animals in the United States, especially elk, & these end up at rendering plants as roadkill. They also render sheep, the most commonly infected farm animals in the United States. Lastly, while it is widely believed that chickens cannot be infected, some scientists speculate that chickens have "safely" eaten prion-infected feeds merely because their lifespans are too short for the infection to injur them -- but the prions could nevertheless be in their brainstem & spine, & rendered chicken meal could also be a source of the prions. And the rendering plant industry is self-regulating (meaning largely unregulated). On the rare occasion when anyone ever checked to see if self-regulation worked, the vats obviously had everything from zoo animals & roadkill to dog & cat carcasses from animal control & run-over racoons, with wildlly inadequate methods of monitoring which end-product batch gets labeled liver meal or chicken meal or beefmeal allegedly suitable to feed even pets -- & you can bet they care even less what goes into their garden-grade garbage. Not much in the news was an American recall of Canadian pet foods found to be contaminated by BSE prions, but if anyone thinks they're more careful in say Milwaukee than in Alberta, they're kiddin' themselves. Because the risks of bone meal in garfdening is not being studied for publication in peer-review contexts, it is possible to say there is no definitive evidence of risk, & fail to mention no one is looking for the evidence because vested parties fund such research & can pick & choose what suits agribusiness best. And those four British cases remain a haunting answer to any Agribusiness spin about it all beikng unproven. One of these victims reportly "never wore a mask & used to grind up the soil & make a big cloud of dust" when adding bonemeal to his rose garden, & was exposed to it on many occasions over a great length of time. The majority of Britain's human cases ate at MacDonalds -- MacDonalds was the sole source of the contaminated meat! -- but four victims were evidently exposed only to bone meal fertilizers. That fact doesn't qualify as a "study" so agribusiness dismisses the cases as unproven, & will certainly never admit how extremely likely it is. In a garden that is not used for harvested vegetables, & if a gardener wears a high-end face mask while spreading bonemeal (not one of those worthless felt paper mouth guards), the possibility of risk would seem largely to be mitigated. Not that I've ever seen a gardener with even one of the worthless felt-paper face guards which stop nothing from going up the snout, let alone an industrial grade real-deal filter mask. But even if it were reasonable to assume it is safe to breathe in bone meal while fertilizing the garden, I would not use it. I do not want to look at my gardens & have to think, "I've sprinkled rendered animals all over that." -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
On Fri, 28 May 2004 00:21:22 +0200 (CEST), George Orwell
opined: Does anyone know of any research that has been done on the potential for contracting mad cow disease from using bone meal or blood meal as a soil amendment for veggies or herbs. That is, assuming no direct contact with the stuff. I don't know that data, but soft rock phosphate is far better for soil than is bone meal and seaweed is far better for soil than is blood meal. ....as an aside. V Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend? http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
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Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message ... The message from (paghat) contains these words: In article , George Orwell wrote: Does anyone know of any research that has been done on the potential for contracting mad cow disease from using bone meal or blood meal as a soil amendment for veggies or herbs. That is, assuming no direct contact with the stuff. Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. Some of the victims were vegetarians. I have not heard that all the vegetarians were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. The majority of Britain's human cases ate at MacDonalds -- MacDonalds was the sole source of the contaminated meat! -- Er, for the benefit of others who may not know..Paghat is joking. No single source of infected meat was identifiable. but four victims were evidently exposed only to bone meal fertilizers. That theory has not been publicised in Britain afaik, so could you provide a source for it please? Janet. The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments. The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments. It is not known if these will eventually succumb to vCJD or even if this is 100% related to BSE. I suppose I should take precautions when using bone meal but I'm always too busy to bother. Others suggest that if I did get 'mad cow disease' they would notice little difference~~and they are my friends!! Brian. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article , Janet Baraclough..
wrote: The message from (paghat) contains these words: In article , George Orwell wrote: Does anyone know of any research that has been done on the potential for contracting mad cow disease from using bone meal or blood meal as a soil amendment for veggies or herbs. That is, assuming no direct contact with the stuff. Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. Some of the victims were vegetarians. I have not heard that all the vegetarians were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. The majority of Britain's human cases ate at MacDonalds -- MacDonalds was the sole source of the contaminated meat! -- Er, for the benefit of others who may not know..Paghat is joking. No single source of infected meat was identifiable. By no means a joke. Deaths from e-coli & mad cow is why they are so often called McDeath or McDisease, serving Big McBrain & McPoo burgers. Most or all the UK cases were from meats processed by McKey Food Corporation under contract to McDonalds. McDeadly was where victims purchased the greater percentage of beef in their diets. McDonalds became McLibel trying to sue people into shutting up about it; they didn't care if they won or lost the suits, which were intended to be costly for their foes. The suits were defined as "strategic lawsuits to stop public activism" & succeeded in frightening even news agencies into mentioning it, because short of a doubleblind independent study (which was never going to happen) no proof could ever be proof enough, & McLibel would sue & sue & sue & become the biggest nuisances on earth. Newspapers would rather have McDonald's advertising dollars rather than be the target of another of McDonald's Strategic Suits Against Public Activism, so they won't harp on the connection. But somehow in their suit-happy mood McDonalds never had the nerve to sue Eric Schlosser who documented McDonald's role in spreading diseases to people, because that's stuff that won't help them once it is quoted thereafter from sworn court testimony. but four victims were evidently exposed only to bone meal fertilizers. That theory has not been publicised in Britain afaik, so could you provide a source for it please? It was reported on Dateline in August 20, 1997, that four victims in UK of the human form of Mad Cow were not meat eaters, but had been exposed to bonemeal in their gardening practices. It was also in numerous newspapers at the time. The Dateline report had the daughter of one of the victim describing her father in his rose garden stirring up a veritable cloud of bonemeal dust. Doubtlessly it was in UK newspapers just as commonly at the time. But public memory is short, & when a new Associated Press article does appear as a reminder (such as by Rukmini Callimachi this past December, in the wake of a new mad cow scare) who really reads the newspapers these days? Callimachi reported that only THREE non-meat-eating gardeners died, but previous articles always say it was four; there's always absolute agreement they were gardeners who used bonemeal, & had no other possible point of exposure to the deadly prions. In consequence of these facts, the British Royal Horticutural Society recommen ds that bonemeal users never use bonemeal without a facemask. The utter uselessness of the sorts of masks you can buy in nearest hardware store, unfortunately RHS failed to note that. After the mad cow scare last year here in Washington state (thanks to infected cows brought in from Canada making it into the human foodchain) a number of safety measures were put into place that never existed before, & which even now have no enforcement system. The recalls included bonemeal products using cowparts, & also soaps. One federal inspector said that there were so many niche markets for the secondary leavings of diseased cattle that it was impossible to recall all of it. Several distributors of this deadly garbage "voluntarily" withdrew bonemeal & tallow products from the given time-period of BSE known to be in the product chain, but volunteering was just a trick to guarantee the government would not in the future harrass anyone with any new laws with teeth or enforcement of any kind. It remains a self-regulating industry, & cleaning up their act is strictly a matter of public relations. -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
"Brian" wrote: Others suggest that if I did get 'mad cow disease' they would notice little difference~~and they are my friends!! Brian Bill is too! -- "No Progress without contraries" William Blake. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
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Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
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Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
"Will" wrote According to my son, a medical microbiologist with a keen interest in BSE, your stuff is spot on. May I respectfully suggest, Will, that regardless of your son's opinion, a discussion of a disease acquired by eating at a restaurant is off-topic on a gardening newsgroup. The original question, whether bonemeal fertilizer is a threat, is more related, and as usual Paghat's response is fabricated nonsense. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article , "Dave Gower"
wrote: "Will" wrote According to my son, a medical microbiologist with a keen interest in BSE, your stuff is spot on. May I respectfully suggest, Will, that regardless of your son's opinion, a discussion of a disease acquired by eating at a restaurant is off-topic on a gardening newsgroup. The original question, whether bonemeal fertilizer is a threat, is more related, and as usual Paghat's response is fabricated nonsense. Actually it's dead-on on-topic that gardeners should know the evidence of four out of 50 deaths effected gardeners through use of bonemeal, the rest through eating at Mcdonalds. Those are FACTS and only blind-with-head-in-shit-pile fools won't even consider the facts of the matter. It's also dead-on on-topic that the Royal Horticultural Society recommends never using bone or blood meal without wearing a mask because of the risk of BSE exposure. Even the type of head-in-shitpile fool who won't believe in reality should be able to tell that's on-topic. Your pal, paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
The message
from "Brian" contains these words: The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments. Exactly. The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments. Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:46:55 +0100, I found this from Janet
Baraclough.. : The message from "Brian" contains these words: The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments. Exactly. The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments. Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays the piper..... |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
"Agnes" wrote in message ... On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:46:55 +0100, I found this from Janet Baraclough.. : The message from "Brian" contains these words: The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments. Exactly. The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments. Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays the piper..... Nothing is 'in the clear'. Potential avenues of infection are all under investigation to avoid further contamination. The only recent conclusion is that animal products might not be/have been the only method of infection. Or even at all. Brian. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article , Agnes
wrote: On Sat, 29 May 2004 22:46:55 +0100, I found this from Janet Baraclough.. : The message from "Brian" contains these words: The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments. Exactly. The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments. Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays the piper..... Actually there is no such journal of any so-called "West of England Medical School, May 2004" & that isn't even the name of Department of Health & Social Care at the University of the West of England, Bristol. The citation was incomplete because entirely bogus. Brian's fake citation is either misremembered hearsay, or he just made it up. And the University of the West of England doesn't even have fascilities for the study of BSE/mad cow, though that school has many experts in economics of cattle agriculture, and has been involved in longterm studies of safer cattle farming techniques funded by the beef industry. The claim that prion-infected meat & meat byproducts are in the clear is just wacky. The journey of these prions from infected sheep, to rendering plant cattle feeds, to cattle, to humans is not in debate. How original infections are passed between ruminants, however, is still an unknown process. But BSE (Bovine spongiform encephalopathy) & CJD ( Creutzfeldt-Jakob Disease) in humans have repeatedly been shown to have the same causitive agent, a prion that is not damaged even by high temperatures & survives any degree of meat processing or byproduct rendering. There is a separate form of CJD called "sporadic CJD" which might not be connected to beef & beef byproducts. A meat-industry propoganda campaigne attempted to misuse information about sporadic CJD as evidence that beef didn't cause the sudden rash of cases in humans. No science supports the cluster of red herrings & half-truths the meat industry put out there. And though the University of the West of England does a lot of work for the beef industry, I do not believe the fake citation has any basis in reality, the Bristol test farms being aimed at healthier farm practices rather than participation in the propoganda blitz on both sides of the Atlantic. The key source of misinformation on the web is the anti-consumer industry-sponsored & misleadingly named Center for Consumer Freedom. It was founded as a front group for the restaurant, alcohol, & tobacco industries, but in the last few years been well funded additionally by the beef industry. They oppose anything that makes meat, fast food, or alcohol look bad, & have served as attack-dogs equally against activists & scientists. In a May 11, 2002 San Francisco Chronicle article, Center for Consumer Freedom spokesman John Doyle was actually cajoled by a reporter into this amazing confession: " our enemies are just about every consumer & environmental group, chef, legislator or doctor who raises objections to things like pesticide use, genetic engineering of crops or antibiotic use in beef and poultry." The CCF claims "reputable scientists" have proven beef is not involved in human infection -- but no scientists are named. Here's a synopsis of the pure-propoganda all-the-time "take" paid for by the beef industry to a PR group pretending to be a consumer organization: http://www.consumerfreedom.com/madco...TOKEN=96900063 They never provide any sources for these extreme minority opinions of beef never having caused this disease in humans, & nobody who is not a lunatic with some of their brain cells already spongiformed could seriously fall for it. -paghat the ratgirl -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
The message from "Brian" contains these words: The most recent [ West of England Medical School-pub. May2004] research suggests that eating meat might very well have little or no relevance~~ the prion being capable of withstanding autoclaving of instruments. Exactly. The work has shown that removed tonsils and appendixes from healthy patients show a significant [but small] proportion having the prion. The proportion, when extrapolated, means there are several thousand carriers of vCJD who could have contaminated others, or been contaminated, via contact with affected, but supposedly sterilised, instruments. Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. ________________________________ The above was headlined in all the National Press and was extracted from appropriate publications ~this month. The research is totally available. The Medical School is Plymouth/Exeter based and highly regarded though relatively recently founded. However, their research has been ongoing for many years. Our daughter was involved with the team. Google should be able to give the details more precisely. We can only hope that they search for a means of eliminating T-AVD. Those infected with this form of Verbal Diarrhoea are only found Trans-Atlantic and might find a simpleton to believe them. I would personally prescribe Grammoxone~ even though it is a fairly painless termination. Brian. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
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Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
The message
from Agnes contains these words: So the animal products are now in the clear. Blood transfusion and instruments are now responsible. And of course scientific sources are impecable, truthful and honest. They don't indulge in spin. Who pays the piper..... You seem to have misread. Nobody has suggested that "animal products are in the clear". There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians also develop the disease. Janet. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
Our mad cow never made it into the food chain, yours did.
That aside. Thanks for the warning about bone meal. What kind of other fertilizer would be good for roses? take care Liz On Fri, 28 May 2004 15:38:50 -0700, (paghat) wrote: After the mad cow scare last year here in Washington state (thanks to infected cows brought in from Canada making it into the human foodchain) a |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
For bone meal, replace using soft rock phosphate. Not that awful junk Triple
Phosphate. Really, my roses (I have 2, a Rosa rugosa and an antique climber) love the application of compost, and I fertilize them with organic pelletized fertilizer, LadyBug Brand (if you can not find it in your area, ask around for another brand of certified organic) and I spray the roses with aerobic tea, liquid seaweed, molasses, apple cider vinegar and fish emulsion. All of that goes into a sprayer at a rate of 1 tablespoon per gallon of (rain) water, and the aerobic tea at about a cup to the gallon. I do this and I have virtually no problems. I cannot control the humidity. The roses get plenty of air circulation. On Mon, 31 May 2004 03:30:21 GMT, MisNomer opined: Our mad cow never made it into the food chain, yours did. That aside. Thanks for the warning about bone meal. What kind of other fertilizer would be good for roses? take care Liz On Fri, 28 May 2004 15:38:50 -0700, (paghat) wrote: After the mad cow scare last year here in Washington state (thanks to infected cows brought in from Canada making it into the human foodchain) a Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend? http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
On Mon, 31 May 2004 01:01:05 +0100, I found this from Janet
Baraclough.. : There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians also develop the disease. Janet. Thy did not have surgery!!! |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:25:47 GMT, I found this from escapee
: For bone meal, replace using soft rock phosphate. Been using this for years its really worht using. Will |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
On Mon, 31 May 2004 21:44:10 +0100, Will opined:
On Mon, 31 May 2004 14:25:47 GMT, I found this from escapee : For bone meal, replace using soft rock phosphate. Been using this for years its really worht using. Will Yes, it is. I find it a more available form of phosphate than any other organic form. Many times there is plenty of phosphorous in the soil, but it's locked up and to help with the exchange of that I use epsom salts. V Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for a friend? http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
paghat wrote: Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. It is believed they inhaled the initial prion infection while spreading bone meal in their gardens. No doubt *all four* of them also drank water, breathed air, and wore clothes. Thus, you must believe that drinking water, breathing air, and wearing clothes causes BSE. In fact, there is no evidence whatsoever that using bonemeal leads to BSE. The BSE hysteria is a wonderful example of hysteria overtaking science. billo |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
Janet Baraclough.. wrote: Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to "reassure" the population. In fact, this is one example of the BSE hysteria *costing* lives. The FDA allows fewer and fewer people to donate blood for political reasons while the demand for blood rises, leading to severe blood shortages. BSE has cost lives in the US -- because of the over-reaction to a very small risk. billo |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article , (Silly
Billy) wrote: In article , paghat wrote: Four cases in Great Britain were not traceable to any meat eaten, but all four were inveterate gardeners who used bonemeal. It is believed they inhaled the initial prion infection while spreading bone meal in their gardens. No doubt *all four* of them also drank water, breathed air, and wore clothes. billo Your usual netkook thinking at work again. Someone could jump off a cliff & break his spine & cave in his skull, & if it were profitable to convince others to break their spines & skulls, you'd tell 'em the headlong leap was harmless, because all the injured parties were actually maimed & killed because they breathed air & drank water water & wore clothes. Somehow I suspect holding their breath, going thirsty, & being naked all the time, wouldn't change the course of a dease, the cause of which is well established. -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
Janet Baraclough.. wrote: There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians also develop the disease. Janet. Please provide a citation of a case of BSE/vCJD transmitted by blood transfusion. Blood transfusion is an inefficient method of transmission in sheep, and as far as I know, there has never been a case in humans. If you have a case, please cite it. More important, please cite the actual calculated risk (for example, see: Dealler S. Transfus Med. 1996 Sep;6(3):217-22 A matter for debate: the risk of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to humans posed by blood transfusion in the UK.) It's one thing to trumpet a theoretical risk. It's another to look at what the risk actually *is.* billo |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
paghat wrote: Your usual netkook thinking at work again. Someone could jump off a cliff & break his spine & cave in his skull, & if it were profitable to convince others to break their spines & skulls, you'd tell 'em the headlong leap was harmless, because all the injured parties were actually maimed & killed because they breathed air & drank water water & wore clothes. No, paghat, that's what *you* are claiming. Here's a clue again -- association != causation. The "netkook" thinking is to inflate theoretical risks into something they are not. Yet one more clue, Paghat. There's a reason it's not called "beef renderer's disease." Tell me, Paghat, how many British meat renderers have contracted BSE? After you tell me that, tell me how risky casual contact is. Your "netkook" hysteria is the kind of thing that made people afraid to touch HIV positive patients. There are risks, but people should find out exactly what they are, not inflate fantastical risks from their ideology. billo |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
Bill Oliver wrote:
In article , Janet Baraclough.. wrote: There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians also develop the disease. Janet. Please provide a citation of a case of BSE/vCJD transmitted by blood transfusion. Blood transfusion is an inefficient method of transmission in sheep, and as far as I know, there has never been a case in humans. If you have a case, please cite it. More important, please cite the actual calculated risk (for example, see: Dealler S. Transfus Med. 1996 Sep;6(3):217-22 A matter for debate: the risk of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to humans posed by blood transfusion in the UK.) It's one thing to trumpet a theoretical risk. It's another to look at what the risk actually *is.* billo http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=14962520 Lancet. 2004 Feb 7;363(9407):417-21. Comment in: Lancet. 2004 Feb 7;363(9407):411-2. Possible transmission of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease by blood transfusion. Llewelyn CA, Hewitt PE, Knight RS, Amar K, Cousens S, Mackenzie J, Will RG. National Blood Service, Cambridge Centre, Cambridge CB2 2PT, UK. BACKGROUND: Variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) is a novel human prion disease caused by infection with the agent of bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE). Epidemiological evidence does not suggest that sporadic CJD is transmitted from person to person via blood transfusion, but this evidence may not apply to vCJD. We aimed to identify whether vCJD is transmissible through blood transfusion. METHODS: The national CJD surveillance unit reported all cases of probable or definite vCJD to the UK blood services, which searched for donation records at blood centres and hospitals. Information on named recipients and donors was provided to the surveillance unit to establish if any matches existed between recipients or donors and the database of cases of vCJD. Recipients were also flagged at the UK Office of National Statistics to establish date and cause of death. FINDINGS: 48 individuals were identified as having received a labile blood component from a total of 15 donors who later became vCJD cases and appeared on the surveillance unit's register. One of these recipients was identified as developing symptoms of vCJD 6.5 years after receiving a transfusion of red cells donated by an individual 3.5 years before the donor developed symptoms of vCJD. INTERPRETATION: Our findings raise the possibility that this infection was transfusion transmitted. Infection in the recipient could have been due to past dietary exposure to the BSE agent. However, the age of the patient was well beyond that of most vCJD cases, and the chance of observing a case of vCJD in a recipient in the absence of transfusion transmitted infection is about 1 in 15000 to 1 in 30000. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
Bill Oliver wrote:
In article , Janet Baraclough.. wrote: There is another way to contract nv CJD, via human blood products and contaminated surgical instruments, which may explain why vegetarians also develop the disease. Janet. Please provide a citation of a case of BSE/vCJD transmitted by blood transfusion. Blood transfusion is an inefficient method of transmission in sheep, and as far as I know, there has never been a case in humans. If you have a case, please cite it. More important, please cite the actual calculated risk (for example, see: Dealler S. Transfus Med. 1996 Sep;6(3):217-22 A matter for debate: the risk of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to humans posed by blood transfusion in the UK.) It's one thing to trumpet a theoretical risk. It's another to look at what the risk actually *is.* billo And here's a description of the possible mechanism of infection: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q..._uids=15058746 Br J Biomed Sci. 2004;61(1):48-54. Leucodepletion for transmissible spongiform encephalopathies. St Romaine C, Hazlehurst G, Jewell AP. School of Life Sciences, Kingston University, Penrhyn Road, Kingston-upon-Thames, Surrey KT1 2EE, UK. Transmissible spongiform encephalopathies (TSEs) have been recognised around the world for many years. Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD), one of the human forms of TSE, has been studied widely and thus far has not proved a great threat to human health. The emergence of two new TSEs--bovine spongiform encephalopathy (BSE) in cattle and variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (vCJD) in humans in the UK--has caused great concern. BSE has had an economic impact and vCJD is a threat to human health. It has been shown that these two diseases are caused by the same prion agent and are linked. Research indicates that vCJD behaves differently to CJD and there is strong evidence to suggest that vCJD is present in lymphoid tissues and B lymphocytes, which presents a theoretical risk that it may be transmitted by transfusion of blood and blood products. To minimise/prevent this risk, the UK government has decided that plasma should be sourced from abroad and has instructed the National Blood Service to leucodeplete all blood and blood products, at a cost of 70 million pounds per annum, although it is not known if this will remove this risk. |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
Bill Oliver wrote:
In article , Janet Baraclough.. wrote: Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to "reassure" the population. In fact, this is one example of the BSE hysteria *costing* lives. The FDA allows fewer and fewer people to donate blood for political reasons while the demand for blood rises, leading to severe blood shortages. BSE has cost lives in the US -- because of the over-reaction to a very small risk. billo Please provide a citation for your claim that "Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to 'reassure' the population". |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
User-Agent: NewsWatcher-X 2.2.3b2
Cache-Post-Path: X-Cache: nntpcache 2.4.0b5 (see http://www.nntpcache.org/) X-Complaints-To: Lines: 48 Path: kermit!newsfeed-west.nntpserver.com!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!diablo.voicenet .com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!soggy72.drizzl e.com!user Xref: kermit rec.gardens:281093 In article , Ermalina wrote: Bill Oliver wrote: In article , Janet Baraclough.. wrote: Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to "reassure" the population. In fact, this is one example of the BSE hysteria *costing* lives. The FDA allows fewer and fewer people to donate blood for political reasons while the demand for blood rises, leading to severe blood shortages. BSE has cost lives in the US -- because of the over-reaction to a very small risk. billo Please provide a citation for your claim that "Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to 'reassure' the population". You can't actually have a rational conversation with Silly Billo, he's a notorious troll who pokes into issues he knows little about in order to dissimilate & tell whoppers for the fun of getting anyone who actually cares about anything upset. He'll try every trolly trick except honesty to never budge, which over the years has led me to believe he doesn't personally care about a thing. Bare that in mind if you decide to play with him. A loony sod can be loads of fun if you're not taken by surprise how increasingly convoluted & ridiculous he will be whenever anyone condescends to notice he's back in action, & expect reason to have any accumulative effect on the unreasonable. -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
Ermalina wrote: Bill Oliver wrote: Possible transmission of variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease by blood transfusion. Note the *possible.* of vCJD. INTERPRETATION: Our findings raise the possibility that this infection was transfusion transmitted. Or not. Infection in the recipient could have been due to past dietary exposure to the BSE agent. Oh. However, the age of the patient was well beyond that of most vCJD cases, and the chance of observing a case of vCJD in a recipient in the absence of transfusion transmitted infection is about 1 in 15000 to 1 in 30000. And what was the chance of observing a case of vCJD in a random transfusion? That was the question I asked. I didn't claim that it was impossible. Once again, I am noting that small risks should be identified as small. As noted in the article you quote, this is not, in fact, a proven case. But even if it is, the existence of *one* case after all these years indicates the miniscule risk. Once again, what *is* the calculated risk? With the presence of one *possible* case, the hysteria that abounds is hardly appropriate. billo |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
Ermalina wrote: Bill Oliver wrote: In article , Janet Baraclough.. wrote: Or via blood donations. In the UK, people who recieved a transfusion during the early 80s are banned from donating blood. Some countries no longer import any human blood products from the UK. Janet Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to "reassure" the population. In fact, this is one example of the BSE hysteria *costing* lives. The FDA allows fewer and fewer people to donate blood for political reasons while the demand for blood rises, leading to severe blood shortages. BSE has cost lives in the US -- because of the over-reaction to a very small risk. billo Please provide a citation for your claim that "Even the FDA has admitted there is no scientific basis for this decision in the US -- it was purely political, in order to 'reassure' the population". The fact that this is a "theoretical" risk is openly noted by the FDA -- if you look at its labeling guidance the FDA demands the following warning (see: http://www.aabb.org/members_only/arc...dcoi101001.htm ) WARNING: Because whole blood and blood components are made from human blood, they may carry a risk of transmitting infectious agents, eg viruses, and theoretically the Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease (CJD) agent.? Note that "theoretically." In other words, they don't know what the risk actually is. In fact, here's the FDA position as described by the AABB: (see http://www.aabb.org/members_only/arc...ins/ab99-8.htm ) So far, there is no evidence that anyone who has traveled to the UK has become infected with nvCJD. The AABB does not believe that people who have traveled there should be concerned about their health. To date, there is also no evidence that nvCJD can be transmitted by blood transfusions, or by any type of person-to-person contact. However, until more research is done and conclusive evidence can be found regarding how nvCJD is transmitted, the FDA is requiring this precautionary donor deferral to safeguard against the unproven possibility that nvCJD could be spread by blood transfusion. ***** end excerpt **** Ah yes, a precaution to safeguard against the unproven possibility. That's rock solid science, yessirree. As noted by the American Red Cross in http://my.webmd.com/content/article/...177_2417_00_07 ************************************ begin excerpt In 2001, in an attempt to protect the nation's blood supply from mad cow disease, the FDA banned blood donation from people who had previously lived in Europe. But blood industry representatives are appealing to the agency to lift the ban, saying that it exacts a tremendous toll on our blood supply. Currently, donations are banned from: * Anyone who has lived in the U.K. for three months or longer since 1980 * Anyone who has lived anywhere in Europe for six months since 1980 * Anyone who has received a blood transfusion in the U.K. Mad cow disease is a degenerative brain disease in animals. Infected animals act crazy, or "mad," displaying changes in mood such as nervousness or agitation and having difficulty standing up, and usually die within two weeks to six months. Mad cow disease seems to spread to people through eating infected beef. Some animal studies suggest that it may be possible to transmit the disease through blood transfusion, prompting concerns among blood bank and FDA officials about safeguarding the blood supply. Scientists still don't know a lot about mad cow disease and how it is transmitted, nor do doctors have a test to screen for it. In humans, mad cow disease is called new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease, or vCJD. Most of the 140 vCJD cases identified so far have occurred in the U.K. The first U.S. case occurred in October 2002, but it is believed the patient contracted it while in the U.K. Still, there is no evidence to suggest that the disease has spread through blood or blood products. "(But) the concern is that the incubation period can be quite long. Even if the risk is quite small, you might not see it in a hundred or so cases. After the experience in the '80s (with HIV transmission through the blood supply), the public expects us to do too much too soon rather than too little too late," said Peter L. Page, MD, senior medical officer at the American Red Cross. ***** end excerpt ***** Yes, Virginia, political. That's what "the public expects us to do too much too soon" means. The AABB notes the effect this policy of "too much too soon" has on the blood supply. See http://www.aabb.org/pressroom/press_...rtse062701.htm begin excerpt ********* The AABB acknowledges the FDA's need to reach a compromise on whether to implement any new donor deferral policies while at the same time carefully balancing patient welfare against all relevant risks and benefits to patient health. Currently, an individual will be deferred or disqualified as a blood donor if he or she has lived in the United Kingdom for a cumulative period of six months or more from 1980-1996. This policy was established by the FDA in order to prevent a possible but not confirmed risk of transmitting vCJD through blood transfusion. However, stricter criteria currently are being debated, which could adversely affect the availability of blood. Although it is difficult to measure precisely the effect of a stricter deferral, best estimates suggest that anywhere between five and ten percent of potential blood donors could be eliminated. "We recognize that a theoretical risk of transmission of TSE through blood transfusion exists," said Klein. "At the same time, availability of blood is also a safety issue and we must balance this risk against the potential risk of TSE transmission through blood." ******** end excerpt Here's what are to tell people who are deferred: IF YOU WERE DEFERRED AS A BLOOD DONOR BECAUSE OF TRAVEL TO THE UNITED KINGDOM? * The deferral is a result of a Food and Drug Administration (FDA) recommendation that anyone who spent more than six months in the United Kingdom (UK) between 1980 and 1996 be deferred from donating blood. We would like to reassure you, however, that you should not be alarmed about your health, and we do not believe that it is necessary for you to see your doctor as a result of this deferral. * The FDA is taking a very conservative approach to make sure that an unusual and rare brain disease called "new variant Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease" (nvCJD) does not affect the US blood supply. In fact, this travel deferral is an addition to other CJD deferrals that have been in place for many years. * New variant CJD is extremely rare, and has infected only a very small number of people, mostly from England or other parts of the UK (England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland, Channel Islands and Isle of Mann). It is likely, but not yet proven, that there is a connection between eating beef from cattle infected with a similar disease. * There is no evidence that travelers to the UK, even those who may have eaten beef while traveling there, have become infected with nvCJD. Scientists do not believe that nvCJD can be transmitted through casual or even intimate (sexual) contact with an infected person. To date, there is no evidence that nvCJD can be spread person-to-person by blood transfusions. However, until more research is done and conclusive evidence can be found regarding how nvCJD is transmitted, the FDA is requiring this precaution. * Your deferral period is (institution's deferral period here). We share your disappointment, but please know that as new information about nvCJD, or even a blood test, becomes available, it may be possible someday to reinstate you as a donor. * Thank you for your generous spirit. Your desire to save lives by donating blood makes all the difference for patients in need, and we are grateful to you. (http://www.aabb.org/members_only/arc...ins/ab99-8.htm) So, it is a theoretical risk in which there is no actual evidence that travellers to the UK are at risk and they are doing it to be extremely cautious and do "too much too soon." And in doing so, they are decreasing the blood supply by 10 - 15% at a time with blood demand is increasing. As noted by Celso Bianco, MD in his review for Hematology: (see http://www.aabb.org/members_only/arc...ins/ab96-4.htm ) The theoretical possibility of CJD transmission by transfusion has been examined by other investigators. A study of transfusion histories of 202 definite and probable cases of CJD which had been part of prospective studies performed in England and Wales between 1980-84 and 1990-92, showed that 21 of the patients had received blood transfusions and 29 had donated blood (8). The frequency of blood transfusions or donations did not differ between CJD cases and matched controls, leading the investigators to conclude that the evidence did not suggest that transfusion was a major risk factor for development of CJD (8). No cases of CJD among hemophiliacs have been reported in the medical literature. The Medline database contains 1,485 references on CJD and 6,385 references on hemophilia between January 1976 and October 1994. None of these references links CJD and hemophilia. An extensive review of mortality data performed by L. Schonberger from the CDC did not identify a single CJD death in individuals with a clott On December 15, 1994, the issue of CJD and transfusion was reviewed by the FDA Blood Products Advisory Committee. After extensive discussion, the Committee recommended that in-date cellular products of blood from donors who later develop CJD should be withdrawn from distribution. In case these products were transfused, the Committee recommended that physicians and recipients be notified. In the case of plasma pooled for further manufacture, the Committee recommended against recall of manufactured products, because of the lack of evidence for transmission. The hemophilia community appeared to be quite dissatisfied with this recommendation, leading the FDA to convene a new Advisory Committee to review the possibility of transmission of CJD by plasma derivatives. The Special Advisory Committee met on June 22, 1995, and recommended that all plasma products containing plasma from individuals who later died of CJD, including albumin, should be withdrawn from the market, despite the lack of evidence for transmissib Lookback studies have been organized around blood donors who later developed CJD. These studies involve identification of recipients and review of their health status. So far, review of the cause of death of 35 recipients of these units indicated that none had developed CJD or other central nervous system disease. Once case of potential transmission to a liver transplant recipient who also received transfusions of albumin has recently been reported. One of the albumin donors died three years later from a dementia clinically characterized as CJD (9). Obviously, the liver transplant recipient was exposed to a variety of drugs and biologics, making it difficult to determine the exact source of disease. Unfortunately, because of the very low incidence of CJD and the long incubation period, there will be a long period of time before more definitive answers become available. In the interim, CJD is being approached as a disease which can theoretically be transmitted by blood and blood products. ***** end excerpt **** The risk is small. Period. billo |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
Bill Oliver wrote:
More important, please cite the actual calculated risk (for example, see: Dealler S. Transfus Med. 1996 Sep;6(3):217-22 A matter for debate: the risk of bovine spongiform encephalopathy to humans posed by blood transfusion in the UK.) It's one thing to trumpet a theoretical risk. It's another to look at what the risk actually *is.* billo Regarding the risk of transmission of BSE/vCJD by blood transfusion in the U.S.: 1. What doofus would rely on a 1996 paper for an assessment of risk of transmission? The link between BSE and vCJD was not recognized until 1996. Even now, our "ignorance is encyclopedic." 2. In the words of the National Acadamies of Science report entitled "Advancing Prion Science (published in 2004)": "These studies provide some assurances for the lack of blood transmission of TSE agents, but the inherent deficiencies of epidemiological approaches, the rarity of the conditions, the difficulty of correctly diagnosing true cases, and the long incubation period prior to case expression make these assurances both tentative and infirm. This is particularly true for assessing the risk of transmitting the vCJD agent through the transfusion of blood or one of its derivatives since this is such a new TSE." 3. Consequently, Mr. Oliver, you ask a question that only a FOOL would consider answerable at this time. So, what's your answer? ;-) |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
In article ,
Ermalina wrote: Bill Oliver wrote: 1. What doofus ... Ah, yes, the standard approach of someone who doesn't have the facts, start with the personal attacks. In fact, a 1996 estimate is a good place to start, since the risk has gone down since then. Thus, a 1996 estimate places an *upper bound* on the actual risk. You do understand the concept of upper bound? 2. In the words of the National Acadamies of Science report entitled "Advancing Prion Science (published in 2004)": "These studies provide some assurances for the lack of blood transmission of TSE agents, but the inherent deficiencies of epidemiological approaches, the rarity of the conditions, the difficulty of correctly diagnosing true cases, and the long incubation period prior to case expression make these assurances both tentative and infirm. This is particularly true for assessing the risk of transmitting the vCJD agent through the transfusion of blood or one of its derivatives since this is such a new TSE." Which makes my point. The event is so *rare* that it is difficult to get decent statistics. It's like calculating the probability of being hit by a meteorite. But, hey. don't let that stop you from engaging in hysteria and in pretending that every little exposure to things like bone meal will end in death. And don't let that stop you from decreasing the blood supply by 10-15% -- which results in *real* death, and *real* disease, and *real* costs. But *those* deaths, and *those* illnesses and *those* costs are a small price to pay for a theoretical risk that is so miniscule that the *rarity* of it makes calculating the risk difficult. What was that you were saying about a "doofus?" What kind of doofus would choose to have people die because they can't get the right kind of blood in an emergency in order to placate an irrational hysteria? 3. Consequently, Mr. Oliver, you ask a question that only a FOOL would consider answerable at this time. So, what's your answer? ;-) Well, I'll go with FOOLS like Dr. Bernadette Healy -- who calls the risk "tiny." ( http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/1503744.stm) Or FOOLS like Brown, et al. in The distribution of infectivity in blood components and plasma derivatives in experimental models of transmissible spongiform encephalopathy. Transfusion 38(9):810,1998 who call it "minimal." Or FOOLS like Wilson K, Code C, Ricketts MN., Risk of acquiring Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease from blood transfusions: systematic review of case-control studies. BMJ. 2000 Jul 1;321(7252):17-9. who conclude: "Case-control studies do not suggest a risk of developing Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease from blood transfusion. Rather, a trend seems to exist towards a lower frequency of previous blood transfusion in patients with Creutzfeldt-Jakob disease than in controls." Or FOOLS like Ricketts MN, Brown P. Transmissible spongiform encephalopathy update and implications for blood safety. Clin Lab Med. 2003 Mar;23(1):129-37 who conclude "At this time, the accumulated evidence does not support the implementation of measures targeted against the risk of transfusion transmission of sporadic, familial, or iatrogenic CJD." Or FOOLS like Brown P. Variant CJD transmission through blood: risks to predictors and "predictees". Transfusion. 2003 Apr;43(4):425-7. who noted: "With the passage of time, systematically collected epidemiologic data substantiated the absence of CJD transmissions in blood recipients and began to weigh more heavily on the perception of risk to humans. It was finally decided that any such risk was negligible, and plasma pools were no longer discarded upon knowledge of a contributing CJD donor (although deferrals designed to eliminate "high-risk" donor categories, such as growth hormone and dura mater recipients, remained in force).. . 1) While it is true that the number of vCJD "carriers" remains unknown, early estimates of as many as 100,000 cases have in recent years shriveled to a maximum of just a few hundred cases, assuming the entirely reasonable estimate of 15 to 20 years as the average incubation period. 1,2 The increasing time period during which the evolution of cases has been observed continues to improve the precision of mathematical modeling and to alleviate concern about the extent of infection of the exposed UK population. 2. 2) Although the concentration of prion protein is indisputably higher in the organs of patients with vCJD than sporadic CJD, and probably does indicate a correspondingly higher concentration of infectivity, infectivity is demonstrable in tissues of patients with both diseases, 3,4 and no studies directly comparing infectivity levels have been performed. Furthermore, the presence of infectivity in blood-interactive organs is not equivalent to infectivity in the blood, as is well demonstrated in studies of circulating and splenic lymphocytes in an experimental mouse model of scrapie. 5 3. 3) Transmission of disease in experimental models via blood and blood components should not be considered in isolation. The only meaningful approach comes from a consideration of data that compare infectivity in vCJD and BSE experimental models to other experimental disease models or that compare epidemiologic observations in humans. These data are summarized in Table 1 (references 6-9 and unpublished data) and lead to the conclusion that, at the very least, the risk associated with vCJD and BSE is not yet demonstrably worse than the risk from non-vCJD forms of disease, which has been shown to be negligible. end excerpt. Considering the millions and millions of blood transfusions that have occurred since the BSE hysteria over a decade ago, and in that time there has only been *one* ***possible*** example, which is actually *more* likely to be diet-related, I'll go along with the FOOLS who use words like "tiny," "negligible," and "minimal." I would rate it somewhere less than a thousand times less than being hit by lightning and *perhaps* slightly more than being hit by a meteor as I go out to get my mail tomorrow morning. But hey, all these people are FOOLS, I know, and are slaves to the evil medical-industrial complex. Go with the experts like paghat. Watch out, the sky is falling. And that's Dr. Oliver, to you. billo |
Bone/ Blood Meal and Mad Cow Disease
Nice to see you still minimizing behind the guise of science....
On Tues, 01 Juno 2004 23:16:01 -0000, (Bill Oliver) wrote: The BSE hysteria is a wonderful example of hysteria overtaking science. bilbo baggins Acts of creation are ordinarily reserved for gods and poets. To plant a pine, one need only own a shovel. -- Aldo Leopold |
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