Many people are not used to Democrats or Liberals or
anyone outside their primitive agenda, speaking out or giving quotations, or
citation on any information to rebuke their false claims.

John Kerry said:

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several
months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably
discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes
committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a
day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of
command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off
heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the
power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed
villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun,
poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in
addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular
ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country"

Truth, false claims, nuanced position, or perhaps slander? No wonder those
Swift boat vets are ****ed off.

Signed,
Conservative Democrat with no representation in the party as currently
formatted.

In article ,
(IntarsiaCo) wrote:

Many people are not used to Democrats or Liberals or
anyone outside their primitive agenda, speaking out or giving quotations, or
citation on any information to rebuke their false claims.

John Kerry said:

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several
months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably
discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes
committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a
day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of
command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears,
cut off
heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned
up the
power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed
villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun,
poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South
Vietnam in
addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular
ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country"

Truth, false claims, nuanced position, or perhaps slander? No wonder those
Swift boat vets are ****ed off.

Signed,
Conservative Democrat with no representation in the party as currently
formatted.

Amazing how loonies can hate a man for bravery & truth. Even when the
truth comes from a man who was there & was wounded, the rest of the story
is just supposed to be covered up.

Kerry proved with actions that he has the capacity for personal bravery up
to the point of risking his life to save others, serving his country to
the highest degree short of death, while George W. Bush draft-dodged &
went awol even from his non-duties in the National Guard the instant
drug-testing was required of him.

Kerry had the integrity to follow-up on his bravery in action up with
honesty in service to the world, in reporting what occurred happened in
Viet Nam. Bravery & honesty -- yuck, deplorable.

How sad that anyone on earth can so deplore the combination of bravery &
honesty. I'll never fathom how anyone purporting to care about vets would
prefer for president a draft-dodging coward & pathological liar who has
sent men & women to die in battle for reasons that had no basis in
reality.

Machieveli said that the best way to destroy a good man is to find his
best & least assailable traits, & assail those. And people think Bush
doesn't know philosophy!

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

paghat wrote:

In article ,
(IntarsiaCo) wrote:

Many people are not used to Democrats or Liberals or
anyone outside their primitive agenda, speaking out or giving
quotations, or citation on any information to rebuke their false claims.

John Kerry said:

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that
several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150
honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to
war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes
committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at
all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears,
cut off
heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned
up the
power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed
villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for
fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South
Vietnam in
addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very particular
ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country"

Truth, false claims, nuanced position, or perhaps slander? No wonder
those Swift boat vets are ****ed off.

Signed,
Conservative Democrat with no representation in the party as currently
formatted.

Amazing how loonies can hate a man for bravery & truth. Even when the
truth comes from a man who was there & was wounded, the rest of the story
is just supposed to be covered up.

Kerry proved with actions that he has the capacity for personal bravery up
to the point of risking his life to save others, serving his country to
the highest degree short of death, while George W. Bush draft-dodged &
went awol even from his non-duties in the National Guard the instant
drug-testing was required of him.

Kerry had the integrity to follow-up on his bravery in action up with
honesty in service to the world, in reporting what occurred happened in
Viet Nam. Bravery & honesty -- yuck, deplorable.

How sad that anyone on earth can so deplore the combination of bravery &
honesty. I'll never fathom how anyone purporting to care about vets would
prefer for president a draft-dodging coward & pathological liar who has
sent men & women to die in battle for reasons that had no basis in
reality.

Machieveli said that the best way to destroy a good man is to find his
best & least assailable traits, & assail those. And people think Bush
doesn't know philosophy!

-paghat the ratgirl


AGREE!!!!
I spent two involuntary tours in Vietnam in the U.S. Army between 1967 and
1979 and I witnessed atrocities such as cutting off ears of the dead,
burning down villages, shooting of water buffalo and ducks and rape. Those
in Vietnam who did not witness or perform such were probably garrison
troops in a headquarters unit.

Also, I spent some time at a place called Dong Tam in the Mekong Delta. You
could climb a short distance up the comms tower and look into Cambodia. It
was common knowledge that the boats there and troops WERE going into
Cambodia.

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:48:41 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
opined:

AGREE!!!!
I spent two involuntary tours in Vietnam in the U.S. Army between 1967 and
1979 and I witnessed atrocities such as cutting off ears of the dead,
burning down villages, shooting of water buffalo and ducks and rape. Those
in Vietnam who did not witness or perform such were probably garrison
troops in a headquarters unit.

Also, I spent some time at a place called Dong Tam in the Mekong Delta. You
could climb a short distance up the comms tower and look into Cambodia. It
was common knowledge that the boats there and troops WERE going into
Cambodia.

Welcome home, soldier and thank you. I'm glad for people like you and sorry we
have undesirables who would do such murderous things. It's no wonder many
Vietnam Vets can't talk to this day about their tour of duty there.

Victoria





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escapee wrote:

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 17:48:41 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
opined:

AGREE!!!!
I spent two involuntary tours in Vietnam in the U.S. Army between 1967 and
1979 and I witnessed atrocities such as cutting off ears of the dead,
burning down villages, shooting of water buffalo and ducks and rape.
Those in Vietnam who did not witness or perform such were probably
garrison troops in a headquarters unit.

Also, I spent some time at a place called Dong Tam in the Mekong Delta.
You
could climb a short distance up the comms tower and look into Cambodia.
It was common knowledge that the boats there and troops WERE going into
Cambodia.

Welcome home, soldier and thank you. I'm glad for people like you and
sorry we
have undesirables who would do such murderous things. It's no wonder many
Vietnam Vets can't talk to this day about their tour of duty there.

Victoria


Thank you,
I see where I had a typo in my post - it should have read between - 1967 and
1970.

The following was from a post on another newgroup about the helicopter pilot
who drew dawn on soldiers at My Lai and saved a few lives by doing so.
This was on TV a couple weeks ago. The same type of individuals are the
ones questioning Kerry. The post follows:

How did you guys treat Hugh Thompson the helicopter pilot who risked his
life and stopped the killings at My
Lai?**Why*he*was*treated*as*a*traitor*by*his
fellow vets!**He*received*death*threats*and*the*officers* club*would*empty
when he walked in to have a drink.**The*U.S.*military*even*stopped*providing
him with adequate back-up on his missions after My Lai!**Are*these*the*same
Vietnam Vets who are now accusing Kerry of being a traitor?

RealOne wrote:

**** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com ****


"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message
...
paghat wrote:

AGREE!!!!
I spent two involuntary tours in Vietnam in the U.S. Army between 1967
and 1979

What was your unit and where where you stationed at both times?

First Signal Brigade both tours. First tour stationed at Bear Cat and Dong
Tam supplying radio relay support for 9th Infantry division

Second tour - based in Chu Lai with supplying radio relay support for the
Americal Division (Lt. Calley's old Division) with numerous trips out to
LZs and fire bases.

And what unit were you in????


and I witnessed atrocities such as cutting off ears of the dead,
burning down villages, shooting of water buffalo and ducks and rape.
Those
in Vietnam who did not witness or perform such were probably garrison
troops in a headquarters unit.

Also, I spent some time at a place called Dong Tam in the Mekong Delta.
You
could climb a short distance up the comms tower and look into Cambodia.
It
was common knowledge that the boats there and troops WERE going into
Cambodia.

I don't believe you.

Why?


I was a Song Be, RVN

Good for you. Welcome home.




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"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message
...
paghat wrote:

AGREE!!!!
I spent two involuntary tours in Vietnam in the U.S. Army between 1967 and
1979

What was your unit and where where you stationed at both times?


and I witnessed atrocities such as cutting off ears of the dead,
burning down villages, shooting of water buffalo and ducks and rape.
Those
in Vietnam who did not witness or perform such were probably garrison
troops in a headquarters unit.

Also, I spent some time at a place called Dong Tam in the Mekong Delta.
You
could climb a short distance up the comms tower and look into Cambodia.
It
was common knowledge that the boats there and troops WERE going into
Cambodia.

I don't believe you.

I was a Song Be, RVN



-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
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http://www.usenet.com
Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

The following was from a post on another newgroup about the helicopter pilot
who drew dawn on soldiers at My Lai and saved a few lives by doing so.
This was on TV a couple weeks ago. The same type of individuals are the
ones questioning Kerry. The post follows:

How did you guys treat Hugh Thompson the helicopter pilot who risked his
life and stopped the killings at My
Lai?**Why*he*was*treated*as*a*traitor*by*his
fellow vets!**He*received*death*threats*and*the*officers* club*would*empty
when he walked in to have a drink.**The*U.S.*military*even*stopped*providing
him with adequate back-up on his missions after My Lai!**Are*these*the*same
Vietnam Vets who are now accusing Kerry of being a traitor?

I believe that at some time later, the truth came out, he was awarded
a medal, and he now lectures on ethics in war at West Point.

vince norris

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:04:39 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann" wrote:

(snip)
The following was from a post on another newgroup about the helicopter pilot
who drew dawn on soldiers at My Lai and saved a few lives by doing so.
This was on TV a couple weeks ago. The same type of individuals are the
ones questioning Kerry. The post follows:

How did you guys treat Hugh Thompson the helicopter pilot who risked his
life and stopped the killings at My
Lai?**Why*he*was*treated*as*a*traitor*by*his
fellow vets!**He*received*death*threats*and*the*officers* club*would*empty
when he walked in to have a drink.**The*U.S.*military*even*stopped*providing
him with adequate back-up on his missions after My Lai!**Are*these*the*same
Vietnam Vets who are now accusing Kerry of being a traitor?

I'd say the helicopter pilot is hardly in the same league as Kerry. He's an
honest and courageous man. Kerry, on the other hand........well, his own words
speak eloquently for him.

The Watcher wrote:

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:04:39 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
wrote:

(snip)
The following was from a post on another newgroup about the helicopter
pilot who drew dawn on soldiers at My Lai and saved a few lives by doing
so.
This was on TV a couple weeks ago. The same type of individuals are the
ones questioning Kerry. The post follows:

How did you guys treat Hugh Thompson the helicopter pilot who risked his
life and stopped the killings at My
Lai?**Why*he*was*treated*as*a*traitor*by*his
fellow vets!**He*received*death*threats*and*the*officers* club*would*empty
when he walked in to have a drink.**The*U.S.*military*even*stopped
providing him with adequate back-up on his missions after My Lai!**Are
these*the*same Vietnam Vets who are now accusing Kerry of being a traitor?

I'd say the helicopter pilot is hardly in the same league as Kerry. He's
an honest and courageous man. Kerry, on the other hand........well, his
own words speak eloquently for him.

"You know I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation. I've
never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business.
But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public
office."
-- Dubya in 1989

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed...
managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the many
tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most
damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal
allegiance to their country." (Colin Powell's autobiography, My American
Journey, p. 148)

On Sun, 22 Aug 2004 21:04:39 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
opined:


Thank you,
I see where I had a typo in my post - it should have read between - 1967 and
1970.

I figured as much.

The following was from a post on another newgroup about the helicopter pilot
who drew dawn on soldiers at My Lai and saved a few lives by doing so.
This was on TV a couple weeks ago. The same type of individuals are the
ones questioning Kerry. The post follows:

How did you guys treat Hugh Thompson the helicopter pilot who risked his
life and stopped the killings at My
Lai?Â*Â*WhyÂ*heÂ*wasÂ*treatedÂ*asÂ*aÂ*traitorÂ*by Â*his
fellow vets!Â*Â*HeÂ*receivedÂ*deathÂ*threatsÂ*andÂ*theÂ*o fficersÂ*clubÂ*wouldÂ*empty
when he walked in to have a drink.Â*Â*TheÂ*U.S.Â*militaryÂ*evenÂ*stoppedÂ*prov iding
him with adequate back-up on his missions after My Lai!Â*Â*AreÂ*theseÂ*theÂ*same
Vietnam Vets who are now accusing Kerry of being a traitor?

I'm not sure, but I do know they are all somehow tied to the current
administration in some way. They paid for the commercial out of pocket and are
all relatively big contributors to the Bush Campaign.

It's been all over the news. They've been outed.

V





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On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 06:18:43 -0400, "Paul E. Lehmann"
opined:


"You know I could run for governor but I'm basically a media creation. I've
never done anything. I've worked for my dad. I worked in the oil business.
But that's not the kind of profile you have to have to get elected to public
office."
-- Dubya in 1989

"I am angry that so many of the sons of the powerful and well-placed...
managed to wangle slots in Reserve and National Guard units...Of the many
tragedies of Vietnam, this raw class discrimination strikes me as the most
damaging to the ideal that all Americans are created equal and owe equal
allegiance to their country." (Colin Powell's autobiography, My American
Journey, p. 148)

....and it's been going on for hundreds of years.





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http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

"Paul E. Lehmann" wrote in message
...
paghat wrote:

In article ,
(IntarsiaCo) wrote:

Many people are not used to Democrats or Liberals or
anyone outside their primitive agenda, speaking out or giving
quotations, or citation on any information to rebuke their false
claims.

John Kerry said:

"I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that
several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over
150
honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified
to
war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but
crimes
committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at
all levels of command....

They told the stories at times they had personally raped, cut off ears,
cut off
heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and
turned
up the
power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians,
razed
villages in fashion reminiscent of Genghis Khan, shot cattle and dogs
for
fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of
South
Vietnam in
addition to the normal ravage of war, and the normal and very
particular
ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country"

Truth, false claims, nuanced position, or perhaps slander? No wonder
those Swift boat vets are ****ed off.

Signed,
Conservative Democrat with no representation in the party as currently
formatted.

Amazing how loonies can hate a man for bravery & truth. Even when the
truth comes from a man who was there & was wounded, the rest of the
story
is just supposed to be covered up.

Kerry proved with actions that he has the capacity for personal bravery
up
to the point of risking his life to save others, serving his country to
the highest degree short of death, while George W. Bush draft-dodged &
went awol even from his non-duties in the National Guard the instant
drug-testing was required of him.

Kerry had the integrity to follow-up on his bravery in action up with
honesty in service to the world, in reporting what occurred happened in
Viet Nam. Bravery & honesty -- yuck, deplorable.

How sad that anyone on earth can so deplore the combination of bravery &
honesty. I'll never fathom how anyone purporting to care about vets
would
prefer for president a draft-dodging coward & pathological liar who has
sent men & women to die in battle for reasons that had no basis in
reality.

Machieveli said that the best way to destroy a good man is to find his
best & least assailable traits, & assail those. And people think Bush
doesn't know philosophy!

-paghat the ratgirl


AGREE!!!!
I spent two involuntary tours in Vietnam in the U.S. Army between 1967 and
1979 and I witnessed atrocities such as cutting off ears of the dead,
burning down villages, shooting of water buffalo and ducks and rape.
Those
in Vietnam who did not witness or perform such were probably garrison
troops in a headquarters unit.

Also, I spent some time at a place called Dong Tam in the Mekong Delta.
You
could climb a short distance up the comms tower and look into Cambodia.
It
was common knowledge that the boats there and troops WERE going into
Cambodia.

Yeah....but not the B-52s. smirk :-) That Kissinger....what a crazy guy.

but I do know they are all somehow tied to the current
administration in some way.

And Bob Dole said:

"Not every one of these people can be Republican liars....There's got to be
some truth to the charges"

"I mean, one day he's saying that we were shooting civilians, cutting off their
ears, cutting off their heads, throwing away his medals or his ribbons...The
next day he's standing there, 'I want to be president because I'm a Vietnam
veteran' "

"Maybe he should apologize to all the other 2.5 million veterans who served.
He wasn't the only one in Vietnam."

Signed,
Still waiting for that apology.

IntarsiaCo wrote:

but I do know they are all somehow tied to the current
administration in some way.

And Bob Dole said:

Blah blah blah.

What Bob Dole said was in effect "Unless your wounds were as great or
greater than mine, you are a cry baby and don't deserve your purple heart.

I think Bob Dole owes ALL Veterans a BIG appology.

Also, remember that Bob Dole was nursed back to health by a lady he
eventually married - only to later have an adulterous affair with Liz, dump
his wife and marry Liz. Another unappreciative compassionate conservative.