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Old 23-08-2004, 04:33 PM
Martin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Answer to the straight cut pruning method - for the second time!

Hi Hemant

This post was in response to a question put earlier, which was:-

"I'm curious about the details of that pruning method that some Brits
use for bushes. You know, the one where you just make a straight cut
across the middle top of the bush. Does anyone have any details about
it? Where do you choose your line? Do you do any other "lateral"
pruning. Etc. Etc."

I did reply to the person concerned giving the source of the article but he
either missed my reply or ignored it. That thread actually got a bit out or
control and off topic so I posted the reply you see which contains the whole
report rather that just a reference.

I would however advise against this method of pruning.

Please note my last comment which says "We do not endorse the above pruning
method. For the best way to prune roses
visit:-http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose "

Regards

Martin Double
Bexrose - Webmaster

Email:
Web Site:
http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose

----- Original Message -----
From: Hament Verma
To:
Sent: Monday, August 23, 2004 1:06 PM
Subject: RE : Straight cut pruning.


Hi,

Let me understand what you are trying to say here. Can you explain me in
detail?

Nice meeting you.

Thanks,

Hemant Verma

*****************

Friends are for forever



From: Martin )
Subject: Answer to the straight cut pruning method - for the second
time!





View this article only

Newsgroups: rec.gardens.roses
Date: 2004-08-21 01:44:03 PST


PRUNING ROSES WITH HEDGETRIMMERS:British Trials Show It Produces More
BloomsBy RNRS President, Ken Grapes



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Old 23-08-2004, 10:09 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:33:13 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:

I did reply to the person concerned giving the source of the article but he
either missed my reply or ignored it.


No, there's a third choice - *you* missed the reply.

That thread actually got a bit out or control and off topic


Well, a lot of that had to do with you and your sockpuppet, Franz.

so I posted the reply you see which contains the whole
report rather that just a reference.


Your original reply to my query was just a link to the pruning article
on the site that many of us will be ignoring in the future. It wasn't
a link to that "report". The "second time", as you put it, was
actually the first time you posted anything other than a vague biased
comment on the method.

BTW, who cares if you endorse it or not? Why are you the Rose Nazi
about this? Do you have proof that it causes the problems that you
claim? One would think that if it *was* such a bad technique, we could
have heard some rebuttal to the decade-old tests? Apparently, from
what I understand, they're still using this method. In fact, one of
our most successful rose gardeners (who takes care of about 70 gardens
for the time-pressed denizens of Nashville), uses a variation of this
because he uses a chainsaw to do most of his pruning in the winter and
then goes back in the spring to clean things up. Apparently it works
for he and his clients shrug.

Do you even *grow* roses or are you a hired gun for the website?
  #3   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 08:14 AM
Martin
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Perhaps you should read my first response again, you have it wrong.

And / or read the follow up to the original article itself, over which heads
rolled!


Regards

Martin Double
Bexrose

Email:
Web Site:
http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 23 Aug 2004 15:33:13 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:

I did reply to the person concerned giving the source of the article but

he
either missed my reply or ignored it.


No, there's a third choice - *you* missed the reply.

That thread actually got a bit out or control and off topic


Well, a lot of that had to do with you and your sockpuppet, Franz.

so I posted the reply you see which contains the whole
report rather that just a reference.


Your original reply to my query was just a link to the pruning article
on the site that many of us will be ignoring in the future. It wasn't
a link to that "report". The "second time", as you put it, was
actually the first time you posted anything other than a vague biased
comment on the method.

BTW, who cares if you endorse it or not? Why are you the Rose Nazi
about this? Do you have proof that it causes the problems that you
claim? One would think that if it *was* such a bad technique, we could
have heard some rebuttal to the decade-old tests? Apparently, from
what I understand, they're still using this method. In fact, one of
our most successful rose gardeners (who takes care of about 70 gardens
for the time-pressed denizens of Nashville), uses a variation of this
because he uses a chainsaw to do most of his pruning in the winter and
then goes back in the spring to clean things up. Apparently it works
for he and his clients shrug.

Do you even *grow* roses or are you a hired gun for the website?



  #4   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 09:57 AM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:14:34 +0000 (UTC), in rec.gardens.roses you
wrote:


Perhaps you should read my first response again, you have it wrong.


Ahem, here is your "first response", in its entirety (with the
advertising disabled):
------------------
You will find an article on pruning on the Be*se web site at:-
http://home.btco.com/cadoss/bexrose


Regards

Martin Double
Bexrose - Webmaster
------------------
Now, how is what I said wrong? The article on pruning *wasn't* the one
about the method that I was asking about.

BTW, you never said whether you actually grow roses yourself. Have you
ever opposite of the business end of a pair of shears? Either you or
Franz can answer if you'd like. But if Franz answers, we'll have our
answer, I suppose, because I'll bet that he claims to have 2,000 roses
and prunes the Queen's garden in Windsor.

  #5   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 10:29 AM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 03:57:37 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

Have you
ever opposite of the business end of a pair of shears?


Or, more correctly stated, "Have you ever *been* opposite of the
business end of a pair of shears", he anally corrected.


  #6   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 12:22 PM
Martin
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 03:57:37 -0500, dave weil
wrote:

Have you
ever opposite of the business end of a pair of shears?


Or, more correctly stated, "Have you ever *been* opposite of the
business end of a pair of shears", he anally corrected.


Ouch, the pain of this boy!

Regards

Martin Double

Email:
Web Site:
http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose


  #7   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 01:02 PM
Martin
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:14:34 +0000 (UTC), in rec.gardens.roses you
wrote:


Perhaps you should read my first response again, you have it wrong.


Ahem, here is your "first response", in its entirety (with the
advertising disabled):
------------------
You will find an article on pruning on the Be*se web site at:-
http://home.btco.com/cadoss/bexrose


Regards

Martin Double
Bexrose - Webmaster
------------------
Now, how is what I said wrong? The article on pruning *wasn't* the one
about the method that I was asking about.

BTW, you never said whether you actually grow roses yourself. Have you
ever opposite of the business end of a pair of shears? Either you or
Franz can answer if you'd like. But if Franz answers, we'll have our
answer, I suppose, because I'll bet that he claims to have 2,000 roses
and prunes the Queen's garden in Windsor.


You will need to prune my responses better than that to lose my original
comment on the straight cut pruning method! If I can still see it, then so
can others, so stop being so silly.

I do grow roses, however rather than brag to the entire newsgroup about how
well I grow roses, I can send you those details direct if you wish. You are
obviously not well up in rose circles yourself to have the need to ask the
question in the first place!

I notice that there are at least four Martin's on this news group, so I am a
bit confused myself especially when one response by a so called Martin that
appeared to come from me, when it had not. Maybe you could throw some light
on this! As to your paranoia about Franz and me; all I can say is that I do
not know the person but have seen some of his posts on the newsgroup other
than that there is no connection. I think we need an explaination from you
before deciding whether to have you commited or not!

What has the number of roses Franz grows got to do with anything? You could
ask how many I grow perhaps, there would be a little sense in that.

Regards

Martin Double

Email:
Web Site:
http://home.btconnect.com/cadoss/bexrose


  #8   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 03:16 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 12:02:01 +0000 (UTC), "Martin"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:14:34 +0000 (UTC), in rec.gardens.roses you
wrote:


Perhaps you should read my first response again, you have it wrong.


Ahem, here is your "first response", in its entirety (with the
advertising disabled):
------------------
You will find an article on pruning on the Be*se web site at:-
http://home.btco.com/cadoss/bexrose


Regards

Martin Double
Bexrose - Webmaster
------------------
Now, how is what I said wrong? The article on pruning *wasn't* the one
about the method that I was asking about.

BTW, you never said whether you actually grow roses yourself. Have you
ever opposite of the business end of a pair of shears? Either you or
Franz can answer if you'd like. But if Franz answers, we'll have our
answer, I suppose, because I'll bet that he claims to have 2,000 roses
and prunes the Queen's garden in Windsor.


You will need to prune my responses better than that to lose my original
comment on the straight cut pruning method! If I can still see it, then so
can others, so stop being so silly.


That was your *first* response to my query, *exactly* as you posted
it, with a little alteration of your advertising only. *Later*, you
said this:

"On the question of pruning straight across, I recall the Royal
National Rose Society (foolishly) advocate this method on one
occasion, but they have since rescinded that advice. The method did
not choose any particular line to cut to for individual stems, it was
more a case of "hedge cutting with a hedge trimmer or lawn shears".
This method might appear to work to start with on vigorous bushes but
die back will be extensive which will eventually weaken and/or make
the rose look unsightly".

No reference to the article that you *eventually* posted as "the
second time" that you had posted it. Also, the article that you posted
claimed that the dieback wasn't as bad as you claimed, and this was
confirmed by another poster, nor have you offered any credible
rebuttal to the article that you yourself posted.

I do grow roses, however rather than brag to the entire newsgroup about how
well I grow roses, I can send you those details direct if you wish.


No thanks. But thanks for your comfirmation that you aren't just a
needy website developer.

You are obviously not well up in rose circles yourself to have the need to ask the
question in the first place!


Ohhhh, I think it's obvious that I don't move in "rose circles".

I notice that there are at least four Martin's on this news group, so I am a
bit confused myself especially when one response by a so called Martin that
appeared to come from me, when it had not.


Now this is just obsfucation. I am only commenting on *your* postings
on the roses newsgroup.

Maybe you could throw some light on this! As to your paranoia about Franz and me; all I can say is that I do
not know the person but have seen some of his posts on the newsgroup other
than that there is no connection. I think we need an explaination from you
before deciding whether to have you commited or not!


Others have commented as well. I have posted headers from both of you
which clearly indicate that Franz is your sockpuppet (or the other way
around). And the only response has been, "you're wrong". I think that
people can decide for themselves.

What has the number of roses Franz grows got to do with anything?
You could ask how many I grow perhaps, there would be a little sense in that.


I did comment on how many roses you might claim to grow, actually.
chuckle


Regards

Martin Double



  #9   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 09:13 PM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 07:14:34 +0000 (UTC), in rec.gardens.roses you
wrote:


Perhaps you should read my first response again, you have it wrong.


Ahem, here is your "first response", in its entirety (with the
advertising disabled):
------------------
You will find an article on pruning on the Be*se web site at:-
http://home.btco.com/cadoss/bexrose


Regards

Martin Double
Bexrose - Webmaster
------------------
Now, how is what I said wrong? The article on pruning *wasn't* the

one
about the method that I was asking about.

BTW, you never said whether you actually grow roses yourself. Have

you
ever opposite of the business end of a pair of shears? Either you or
Franz can answer if you'd like. But if Franz answers, we'll have our
answer, I suppose, because I'll bet that he claims to have 2,000

roses
and prunes the Queen's garden in Windsor.


You are, as you invariably are, quite wrong.
I live about 300 miles from Windsor.
I have approximately 2 dozen roses.
I prune them all very lightly, as I don't see why I should, on a
annual basis, throw away all the good work the roses have done the
previous season.
They are now all quite large shrubs, and are repaying my restraint by
being very floriferous.
You should try to learn something about roses, assuming that you do
have the neurons to cope with studying..

Franz


  #10   Report Post  
Old 24-08-2004, 10:00 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:13:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

You are, as you invariably are, quite wrong.
I live about 300 miles from Windsor.
I have approximately 2 dozen roses.
I prune them all very lightly, as I don't see why I should, on a
annual basis, throw away all the good work the roses have done the
previous season.
They are now all quite large shrubs, and are repaying my restraint by
being very floriferous.
You should try to learn something about roses, assuming that you do
have the neurons to cope with studying..

Franz


Thanks for the input, Mr. Double.

BTW, I've only got you beat by about half-a-dozen roses.


  #11   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 07:30 AM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:13:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

You are, as you invariably are, quite wrong.
I live about 300 miles from Windsor.
I have approximately 2 dozen roses.
I prune them all very lightly, as I don't see why I should, on a
annual basis, throw away all the good work the roses have done the
previous season.
They are now all quite large shrubs, and are repaying my restraint

by
being very floriferous.
You should try to learn something about roses, assuming that you do
have the neurons to cope with studying..

Franz


Thanks for the input, Mr. Double.


It was unnecessary for you to insert that line. We already know that
you are invariably wrong.

[snip]

Franz



  #12   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 12:42 PM
dave weil
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:30:39 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:13:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

You are, as you invariably are, quite wrong.
I live about 300 miles from Windsor.
I have approximately 2 dozen roses.
I prune them all very lightly, as I don't see why I should, on a
annual basis, throw away all the good work the roses have done the
previous season.
They are now all quite large shrubs, and are repaying my restraint

by
being very floriferous.
You should try to learn something about roses, assuming that you do
have the neurons to cope with studying..

Franz


Thanks for the input, Mr. Double.


It was unnecessary for you to insert that line. _We_ already know that
you are invariably wrong.


Franz


See? chortle

If you weren't so obvious in your attempts to build your sockpuppet,
it might even be funny. Just a quick question though - isn't it
difficult to grow roses in the North Sea?
  #13   Report Post  
Old 25-08-2004, 10:19 PM
Franz Heymann
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"dave weil" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:30:39 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"dave weil" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:13:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

You are, as you invariably are, quite wrong.
I live about 300 miles from Windsor.
I have approximately 2 dozen roses.
I prune them all very lightly, as I don't see why I should, on a
annual basis, throw away all the good work the roses have done

the
previous season.
They are now all quite large shrubs, and are repaying my

restraint
by
being very floriferous.
You should try to learn something about roses, assuming that you

do
have the neurons to cope with studying..

Franz

Thanks for the input, Mr. Double.


It was unnecessary for you to insert that line. _We_ already know

that
you are invariably wrong.


Franz


See? chortle

If you weren't so obvious in your attempts to build your sockpuppet,
it might even be funny. Just a quick question though - isn't it
difficult to grow roses in the North Sea?


It would appear that you are one of those must-have -the-last-liners.
Please have it.

Franz


  #14   Report Post  
Old 27-08-2004, 11:00 PM
[email protected]
 
Posts: n/a
Default

On Thu, 26 Aug 2004 17:48:25 -0400 (EDT), "Shiva"
wrote:

Franz Heymann wrote:

"dave weil" wrote in message
news
On Wed, 25 Aug 2004 06:30:39 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"dave weil" wrote in message
...

[snip]

That's some crazy people that they have using that ISP which

suddenly
starts popping up on rec. garden.roses. It *must* be a coincidence,
since that ISP is as huge as demon...


You are once again showing what a failure you are as far as deductive
powers are concerned. The ISP I use is run by British Telephone,
which is the major telephone company in the UK, so it is not a notable
coincidence if two urglers use it.

If you had had any powers of observation, you would also by now have
noticed that I make no secret of the fact that I live at the top of
Wensleydale and the Martin who supports the Bexhill Rose Society posts
from Bexhill (there are at least 3 Martins who participate in urg).
If you knew how to use a ruler, and you could lay your hands on a map
of the UK in that benighted part of the world you live in, you might
be able to establish for yourself that the distance between those
places is more than 300 miles.

Franz



You provincial louts are so damned touchy. My mistake--
I was the one who noticed the similarity in the headers.
I'm afraid neither you nor Martin are worth the level
of attention necessary for making fine distinctions.
You may not be the same people, but you have the same
humorless tone. Might as well be the same people.
Meanwhile, had Martin not crossposted to all these
groups we might have been spared every meeting you.
Martin, God Damn it, stop answering ever post by
directing people to your half-assed web site.

Q: I have a hangnail, what should I do?
A: Go to the Bexrose website, we have an entire article
on trimming hanganails! ~~Martin, half-assed webmaster.
Plllbbbbt.



What a gracious way to admit that you were wrong!
A level of genuine humility comes with added value!

Geoff
  #15   Report Post  
Old 02-09-2004, 09:52 AM
Doug.
 
Posts: n/a
Default


"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"dave weil" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 20:13:58 +0000 (UTC), "Franz Heymann"
wrote:

You are, as you invariably are, quite wrong.
I live about 300 miles from Windsor.
I have approximately 2 dozen roses.
I prune them all very lightly, as I don't see why I should, on a
annual basis, throw away all the good work the roses have done the
previous season.
They are now all quite large shrubs, and are repaying my restraint

by
being very floriferous.
You should try to learn something about roses, assuming that you do
have the neurons to cope with studying..

Franz


Thanks for the input, Mr. Double.


It was unnecessary for you to insert that line. We already know that
you are invariably wrong.

[snip]

Franz


*********
With H.T. roses the natural habit is to grow on eacn year and form a
straggly bush which eventually plays itself out and falls prey to all
sorts of diseases.
However, in real life we don't usually grow them for that purpose or
aspect.
Since they have been either budded or grafted they are not really
'natural' any more.
We want an aspect which provides a nice smallish bush which will flush
with many flowers and will fit in with its neighbours and all make a
good show to please the eye of man.
To achieve this the standard practice was and still is, to prune at the
appropriate time of season, - summer trimming to keep shape, and spring
hard pruning to make the plants develop sturdy shoots, and hence
branches which develop their own sub-branches with their consequent
blaze of fairly compact colour.
Doug.




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