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#31
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Anonny Moose wrote:
"zxcvbob" wrote in message ... escapee wrote: .. However I do believe it presents a strong case that he did not receive an honorable discharge: From JohnKerry.com, his separation from Active Duty was on March 1, 1970. http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_..._timeline.html Now notice the date [Feb 16, 1978] on this document: http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...om_Reserve.pdf This was right after President Carter granted amnesty to "draft dodgers" (a little background info that doesn't directly affect this case but sets the atmosphere.) Now the phrases "by direction of the President" [Carter] and "board officers convened under authority of reference to examine the official records...", and "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163". Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163 refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. If his original separation had been an honorable discharge, there would have been no need for a review. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge. You are just wrong. Kerry was released from active duty and transferred to the Navel Reserve (inactive status) in 1970. In 1972 he was transferred to the Standby Reserve (inactive) and in 1978 was honorably discharged from the Naval Reserve. Check it out: http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...of_Service.pdf Karen Thanks. I'll forward this to my Air Force buddy and see what he says. I still think the "board of officers" thing is weird, because a board review shouldn't be necessary for a routine discharge -- but I don't know what kind of legal b.s. are perhaps always on these forms. Best regards, Bob |
#32
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On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:38:52 -0500, zxcvbob opined:
escapee wrote: On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:27:20 -0500, zxcvbob opined: If Kerry sues the SwiftBoatVets, or anyone else for that matter, regarding his Vietnam war service, his military records will be subpoenaed and everyone will see his discharge papers from the early 70's, not just the version that was reviewed and reissued in 1978 by order of President Carter. I suspect he *really* wants to keep those original papers buried. Kerry never should have made his military service the centerpiece of his campaign, because that makes it an issue for close scrutiny. If he had kept his mouth shut about it, everyone already knew his military service (on the surface anyway) was better than Bush and Chaney. I doubt his service record stands up to close scrutiny. Best regards, Bob Based on what? A few months ago, an old college buddy of mine who is a retired Air Force officer was badmouthing Kerry for protesting the Vietnam War. I told him that whatever else I thought of Kerry, I believed he had earned the right to protest the war. (that kind of ****ed him off) Recently, he sent me a bunch of information that suggests that Kerry may have originally received a dishonorable discharge. I've looked up some of the info myself, and I think the dishonorable discharge thing is plausible but the evidence is *very* stretchy. However I do believe it presents a strong case that he did not receive an honorable discharge: From JohnKerry.com, his separation from Active Duty was on March 1, 1970. http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_..._timeline.html Now notice the date [Feb 16, 1978] on this document: http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...om_Reserve.pdf This was right after President Carter granted amnesty to "draft dodgers" (a little background info that doesn't directly affect this case but sets the atmosphere.) Now the phrases "by direction of the President" [Carter] and "board officers convened under authority of reference to examine the official records...", and "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163". Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163 refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. If his original separation had been an honorable discharge, there would have been no need for a review. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge. We'll never know unless Kerry sues the SBV's for libel (and they subpoena the records), because Kerry will not release his full military records. Best regards, Bob Like I said...what do you base this on? It would appear to me he was honorably discharged. I know if it was a fact that he was not, we'd have heard about it ad nauseam by now. Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend? http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html |
#33
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Like I said...what do you base this on? It would appear to me he was
honorably discharged. I know if it was a fact that he was not, we'd have heard about it ad nauseam by now. They are not basing it on anything other than trying to fabricate something bad to say about a democrat war hero. They aught to be ashamed of themselves. Anyway you look at it, Kerry's war record is far superior to nonexistent one of that awol inept dopehead Dubya. There is no contest at all. "escapee" wrote in message news On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 19:38:52 -0500, zxcvbob opined: escapee wrote: On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 13:27:20 -0500, zxcvbob opined: If Kerry sues the SwiftBoatVets, or anyone else for that matter, regarding his Vietnam war service, his military records will be subpoenaed and everyone will see his discharge papers from the early 70's, not just the version that was reviewed and reissued in 1978 by order of President Carter. I suspect he *really* wants to keep those original papers buried. Kerry never should have made his military service the centerpiece of his campaign, because that makes it an issue for close scrutiny. If he had kept his mouth shut about it, everyone already knew his military service (on the surface anyway) was better than Bush and Chaney. I doubt his service record stands up to close scrutiny. Best regards, Bob Based on what? A few months ago, an old college buddy of mine who is a retired Air Force officer was badmouthing Kerry for protesting the Vietnam War. I told him that whatever else I thought of Kerry, I believed he had earned the right to protest the war. (that kind of ****ed him off) Recently, he sent me a bunch of information that suggests that Kerry may have originally received a dishonorable discharge. I've looked up some of the info myself, and I think the dishonorable discharge thing is plausible but the evidence is *very* stretchy. However I do believe it presents a strong case that he did not receive an honorable discharge: From JohnKerry.com, his separation from Active Duty was on March 1, 1970. http://www.johnkerry.com/about/john_..._timeline.html Now notice the date [Feb 16, 1978] on this document: http://www.johnkerry.com/pdf/jkmilse...e_From_Reserve. This was right after President Carter granted amnesty to "draft dodgers" (a little background info that doesn't directly affect this case but sets the atmosphere.) Now the phrases "by direction of the President" [Carter] and "board officers convened under authority of reference to examine the official records...", and "Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163". Title 10, U.S. Code Section 1162 and 1163 refers to the grounds for involuntary separation from the service. What was being reviewed, then, was Mr. Kerry's involuntary separation from the service. If his original separation had been an honorable discharge, there would have been no need for a review. The review was likely held to improve Mr. Kerry's status of discharge from a less than honorable discharge to an honorable discharge. We'll never know unless Kerry sues the SBV's for libel (and they subpoena the records), because Kerry will not release his full military records. Best regards, Bob Like I said...what do you base this on? It would appear to me he was honorably discharged. I know if it was a fact that he was not, we'd have heard about it ad nauseam by now. Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend? http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html |
#34
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"Cereus-validus." wrote in message ... Anyway you look at it, Kerry's war record is far superior to nonexistent one of that awol inept dopehead Dubya. Hanoi John is a fraud and a pothead. |
#35
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You must still be having bad acid flashbacks. You are confusing Kerry with
Jane Fonda and that is truly deranged, you Boozehound. "StanB" wrote in message ... "Cereus-validus." wrote in message ... Anyway you look at it, Kerry's war record is far superior to nonexistent one of that awol inept dopehead Dubya. Hanoi John is a fraud and a pothead. |
#36
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"zxcvbob" wrote in message
... Kerry never should have made his military service the centerpiece of his campaign, because that makes it an issue for close scrutiny. He had to make it an issue because there are quite a few dummies who think it's relevant. Unfortunately, Kerry needs to stoop low in his attempt to steal some of Bush's supporters, and perhaps some of the knuckleheads who are still undecided. If throwing large chunks of raw meat is what it takes, he'll do it. |
#37
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On Sun, 24 Oct 2004 15:18:30 GMT, "Cereus-validus."
opined: They are not basing it on anything other than trying to fabricate something bad to say about a democrat war hero. They aught to be ashamed of themselves. Anyway you look at it, Kerry's war record is far superior to nonexistent one of that awol inept dopehead Dubya. There is no contest at all. One of the problems is that, many people listen to Rush and regardless what Rush says, they take it as truth. Rush can pull it right out of his ass ("Franken") and people think it's truth. Never mind actually checking the facts. I hope you're right and I hope people vote for Kerry not only by a small margin, but a complete landslide. Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend? http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html |
#38
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"Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority
of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both." Kerry met in 1970, by his own admission, with delegations from the North Vietnamese communist government and discussed how the Vietnam War should be stopped. |
#39
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"IntarsiaCo" wrote in message ... "Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both." Kerry met in 1970, by his own admission, with delegations from the North Vietnamese communist government and discussed how the Vietnam War should be stopped. Looked at the tags clothing lately? Vietnam's becoming a happy little capitalist country, regardless of their government. It probably could've gotten there about 30 years faster without our so-called "help". Since capitalism is what we WANT to see as a worldwide system (supposedly), Kerry may have done us a favor, if his efforts in any way sped things up. |
#40
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In article , "Doug Kanter"
wrote: "IntarsiaCo" wrote in message ... "Any citizen of the United States, wherever he may be, who, without authority of the United States, directly or indirectly commences or carries on any correspondence or intercourse with any foreign government or any officer or agent thereof, with intent to influence the measures or conduct of any foreign government or of any officer or agent thereof, in relation to any disputes or controversies with the United States, or to defeat the measures of the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both." Kerry met in 1970, by his own admission, with delegations from the North Vietnamese communist government and discussed how the Vietnam War should be stopped. Looked at the tags clothing lately? Vietnam's becoming a happy little capitalist country, regardless of their government. It probably could've gotten there about 30 years faster without our so-called "help". Since capitalism is what we WANT to see as a worldwide system (supposedly), Kerry may have done us a favor, if his efforts in any way sped things up. Intarsia has always had trouble with the truth & Kerry never met with any Vietnamese delegation in 1970. In 1970 he met with the delegates of the Vietnam Veterans Against the War, & gave testimony before Congress repeating some of the eye-witness testimony about atrocities committed by our Vets as a commonplace, the more decent of whom felt guilt & sadness for being placed in that position. This testimony is on the record & is very condemning of the war, as it should have been. But far-right loons, including some vets who apparently lost their humanity & so have never felt the requisit guilt & sorrow, have "spun" the testimony to make Kerry out to be a traitor for having the moral integrity, as a decorated vetaran, to stand up against injustice. For people with absolutely no moral integrity it is easy to twist that around & heap lie up on lie, including that he colluded with communists. The justification for this amazing lie is that the Vietnam Vets Against the War were or are themselves a "communist delegation." These vets were among the greatest of my generation's true patriots, who both fought the Vietnamese as they were told was necessary, & spoke out afterward about the undeniable & horrific injusticies & introcities they saw first-hand. Kerry listened to them; he retold some of their stories; his own integrity was in sync with that of other brave men. But to very, very, very bad people, they were always "commies," the name tossed at anyone in those days who was capable of decency, in emulation of McCarthy. That they'd still be doing it these decades later shows only that there is still unrepentent evil afoot -- & evil loves Bush. The same people who have gathered around liar & propogandist John O'Neill whose dirty deeds have been repeatedly "outed" as the lies & falsehoods they inevitably are, but the hope is that by telling these whoppers enough people will be stupid enough to believe it that some harm will be done (against all of American). Besides the assinine assumption that war heros who dislike war are all communists & to speak to them is to conspire with communists, the other "basis" for the lie is Kerry's presence at a peace conference in Paris in 1971 (Intarsia says 1970 but that's when he met with antiwar Veterans; Intarsia like all liars can't keep the lies straight). The truth is that Kerry as a leading antiwar activist at the time attended a peace conference attended also by Nguyen Thi Binh from Vietnam. There were no meetings with Nguyen Thi Binh let alone negotiations, but being in the same city for the same conference is all it takes for John O'Neill to start a new round of fabulous lying. These exact same wackies also claim that Kerry orchestrated in 1995 a cover-up of the American Prisoners of War still held prisoner in Vietnam today, obtaining the proof under the guise of heading a Missing in Action Task Force, then destroying that evidence when it was discovered vets are still alive. Bushite far-right Republicans haven't tried to take much advantage of that one yet because even they know it'd make Kerry's attackers sound like the nutsacks they are. As Machievelli recommended, find the most unassailable trait of your opponent & assail that -- for Kerry that means assailing his honesty & heroism. I would listen to these lies only as a means to assess who is so morally reprehensible as to be disregarded as even human. Our choice this year is between a war hero who knows war is a bad thing, or lying propogandists who want as many wars as possible without regard for how many Americans & other nationals are killed, so long as Bush's corporate buddies, safe in their corporate headquarters, can rake in profits, indebting even our grea-tgrandchildren to today's corporate greed. -paghat the ratgirl -- "Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher. "Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature. -from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers" Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com |
#41
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When Kerry was asked by committee chairman Senator J. William Fulbright how he
proposed to end the war, the former Navy lieutenant said it should be ended immediately and mentioned his involvement in peace talks in Paris. "I have been to Paris," Kerry said. "I have talked with both delegations at the peace talks, that is to say the Democratic Republic of Vietnam and the Provisional Revolutionary Government and of all eight of Madam Binh's points . .. . ." |
#42
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Kerry as a leading antiwar activist at the time attended a peace
conference attended also by Nguyen Thi Binh from Vietnam. There were no meetings with Nguyen Thi Binh let alone negotiations, Kerry's campaign said earlier this year that he met on the trip with Nguyen Thi Binh, then foreign minister of the PRG and a top negotiator at the talks. Kerry acknowledged in that testimony that even going to the peace talks as a private citizen was at the "borderline" of what was permissible under U.S. law, which forbids citizens from negotiating treaties with foreign governments. |
#43
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"IntarsiaCo" wrote in message ... Kerry as a leading antiwar activist at the time attended a peace conference attended also by Nguyen Thi Binh from Vietnam. There were no meetings with Nguyen Thi Binh let alone negotiations, Kerry's campaign said earlier this year that he met on the trip with Nguyen Thi Binh, then foreign minister of the PRG and a top negotiator at the talks. Kerry acknowledged in that testimony that even going to the peace talks as a private citizen was at the "borderline" of what was permissible under U.S. law, which forbids citizens from negotiating treaties with foreign governments. I guess you were OK with Kissinger going to the talks and discussing peace (out of one side of his mouth), while being part of the cover up of the bombing of Cambodia. So, a snake who's "officially authorized" is better than an honest man who's not? |
#44
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"Jim Carlock" wrote in message
. .. Some quotes by George W. Bush and his staff: "There ought to be limits to freedom." "We need a common enemy to unite us." George didn't mean to let this slip out, but it did, and it is proof... he thought he was being funny... he was telling the truth. This is one of MY favorites. Wars have probably begun over smaller insults than this: "The only thing I know about Slovakia is what I learned first-hand from your foreign minister, who came to Texas."-To a Slovak journalist as quoted by Knight Ridder News Service, June 22, 1999. Bush's meeting was with Janez Drnovsek, the prime minister of Slovenia. |
#45
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"IntarsiaCo" wrote in message ... Kerry as a leading antiwar activist at the time attended a peace conference attended also by Nguyen Thi Binh from Vietnam. There were no meetings with Nguyen Thi Binh let alone negotiations, Kerry's campaign said earlier this year that he met on the trip with Nguyen Thi Binh, then foreign minister of the PRG and a top negotiator at the talks. Kerry acknowledged in that testimony that even going to the peace talks as a private citizen was at the "borderline" of what was permissible under U.S. law, which forbids citizens from negotiating treaties with foreign governments. If Kerry's actions were criminal and apparently known at the time, why then did the govt not prosecute? Perhaps there was no crime? |
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