I have started my own seeds every spring for the past 5-6 years. I have
one of those wire coated, heavy duty shelves in my laundry room. I
suspend shop lights over 4 shelves and have three seed heat mats. I use
both seed start mix and jiffy pots. I use water that has been allowed to
stand to remove the chlorine. There is a heat vent at the bottom of the
shelves (I keep 1/2 open) that circulates air and heat. This is not in
the basement near any possible gas leak...

Always worked very, very well in previous years.

THIS YEAR I am having difficulty getting ANY pepper seeds to germinate.
Not the bells or jalapeno or cayennes... I FINALLY got 3 varieties of
tomatoes to germinate but it took about 3-4 weeks to see any green.
Tomatoes are usually up in 3 days.

I tried again with the peppers - all new seed - and in both seed start
and jiffy mix. NO PEPPERS! I planted 10 jiffy pots of cantaloupe and now
have only 2 growing. Cucumbers same - 10 to get 2. I can dig up the
seeds and they are not rotted. Just white and clean looking. Like PLASTIC!

I planted 30 of the Park's Lighthouse salvias and now have 2. Zinnias (I
know don't like transplanting but have done well for me in the past) I
have planted twice! No zinnias. Pinwheel variety. Not a speck of green.

The marigolds, cosmos, coleus and impatiens are doing fine.

I cannot figure that anything has changed from last year.

ANY ideas??????????? I am so puzzled....

I also want to add:

I am not collecting my own seed from last year's harvest. I am using a
variety of Burpee, Park's and Ferry-Morse.

You can try replacing the soil. Maybe you got a bad batch.

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:08:41 -0500, Sterling
wrote:

I am using new sterile seed start mix (2 different brands)and some seeds
are in new jiffy peat pots. Thanks for answering, though.

fran wrote:
You can try replacing the soil. Maybe you got a bad batch.

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:08:41 -0500, Sterling
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:08:41 -0500, Sterling wrote:
I tried again with the peppers - all new seed - and in both seed start
and jiffy mix. NO PEPPERS! I planted 10 jiffy pots of cantaloupe and now
have only 2 growing. Cucumbers same - 10 to get 2. I can dig up the
seeds and they are not rotted. Just white and clean looking. Like PLASTIC!

My guess from your descriptions are that you've gto something environmental
going on here... too hot, too cold or not enough water. Are the seeds
fully imbibed?

imbibed - had to look it up. Yes, fully imbibed. Moist, not floating.
And I would think that if they were not going to sprout, they would have
rotted as they've been wet so long. But when I dig them up, they are
nice and white.

I do know about scarification, but these kinds of seeds don't need that.

The ONLY difference is that this year I did start the seeds about 2
weeks sooner than I usually do. But the peppers and tomatoes and zinnias
were on the heat mats and I don't keep my house (Atlanta) really cold.

I have had very good success in past years. I know how to do seeds. I
usually have so many seedling, I have plenty to share.

Something environmental - yes, but what????? This is very frustrating.

Thanks

Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 16:08:41 -0500, Sterling wrote:

I tried again with the peppers - all new seed - and in both seed start
and jiffy mix. NO PEPPERS! I planted 10 jiffy pots of cantaloupe and now
have only 2 growing. Cucumbers same - 10 to get 2. I can dig up the
seeds and they are not rotted. Just white and clean looking. Like PLASTIC!


My guess from your descriptions are that you've gto something environmental
going on here... too hot, too cold or not enough water. Are the seeds
fully imbibed?

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 23:25:23 -0500, Sterling wrote:
The ONLY difference is that this year I did start the seeds about 2
weeks sooner than I usually do. But the peppers and tomatoes and zinnias
were on the heat mats and I don't keep my house (Atlanta) really cold.

I have had very good success in past years. I know how to do seeds. I
usually have so many seedling, I have plenty to share.

Something environmental - yes, but what????? This is very frustrating.

If they're fully imbibed, not rotting, and not sprouting, you've either
got a soil temperature problem (what is it? Stick a thermometer in the soil!)
or you've got an inhibitory batch of soil -- at least that's my best guess.
Pull a few of those fully imbibed seeds out. Put them in a tea strainer
and drip cool water on them for a day -- you're trying to wash out water
soluble inhibitors; a drippy faucet is just perfect for this. DO NOT
SOAK THEM -- most people soak seeds in too-deep a water, and they
strangle them from low oxygen tension. At this stage, of germination, it
would probably be fatal for them. Now put those seeds on several folds of
coffee filter or plain paper towel, cover with another thickness of paper,
and put it on a saucer. Cover the paper with a custard cup or a bowl, to
keep the paper from drying out. Continue to water the other seeds, and
keep the paper moist, but seeds not in standing water. Instead of paper, you
can use plain old sandbox sand -- that's the gold standard for laboratory
testing of germination, though rarely used because it's a pain to handle.

If the seeds in the paper sprout, you've got an inhibitory batch of soil.
If it's commercial soil, it may have been made with compost contaminated
with something or other -- caffeine is one of the more common seed inhibitors.
One of the suppressant herbicides may be another possibility.
Or you may have gotten soil that was heat treated poorly and has become
inhibitory. If you heat treated it yourself, you may have created the
problem, too...

At any rate, you've got seeds that sound like they're primed for germination,
but they've only made it to the earliest stages. The major factors in
germination a
-- water
-- oxygen
-- temperature (some require alternating day/night type temps)
-- lack of inhibitors for some seeds (that's part of what stratification is
about)
-- time
-- seeds capable of growth

Generally, if the temperature is too high, some seeds can be pushed into
deep dormancy. That sounds unlikely here -- the usual issue is too cool.
Too cool a germination regime tends to prolong germination time, and you
often get results like yours.

Kay

thanks very much - I will try all of your suggestions and see what
transpires.

Kay Lancaster wrote:

If they're fully imbibed, not rotting, and not sprouting, you've either
got a soil temperature problem (what is it? Stick a thermometer in the soil!)

what should the temperature be? I do have the peppers on the heat mat...

DO NOT SOAK THEM -- most people soak seeds in too-deep a water, and they
strangle them from low oxygen tension. At this stage, of germination, it
would probably be fatal for them.

How wet should the seeds be kept? - the directions always say "moist not
wet" but I have always wondered about this. I do make sure the water
runs out the bottom and there is no standing water but they always
follow up with "do not allow to dry out".

Now put those seeds on several folds of
coffee filter or plain paper towel, cover with another thickness of paper,
and put it on a saucer. Cover the paper with a custard cup or a bowl, to
keep the paper from drying out. Continue to water the other seeds, and
keep the paper moist, but seeds not in standing water. Instead of paper, you
can use plain old sandbox sand -- that's the gold standard for laboratory
testing of germination, though rarely used because it's a pain to handle.

I will surely try this.

If the seeds in the paper sprout, you've got an inhibitory batch of soil.
If it's commercial soil, it may have been made with compost contaminated
with something or other -- caffeine is one of the more common seed inhibitors.
One of the suppressant herbicides may be another possibility.
Or you may have gotten soil that was heat treated poorly and has become
inhibitory. If you heat treated it yourself, you may have created the
problem, too...

I have two different brands of seed starter material and I am also using
jiffy pots. The thought that all three different sources could be
contaminated would be odd but certainly not impossible.


At any rate, you've got seeds that sound like they're primed for germination,
but they've only made it to the earliest stages. The major factors in
germination a
-- water
-- oxygen
-- temperature (some require alternating day/night type temps)
-- lack of inhibitors for some seeds (that's part of what stratification is
about)
-- time
-- seeds capable of growth

Generally, if the temperature is too high, some seeds can be pushed into
deep dormancy. That sounds unlikely here -- the usual issue is too cool.
Too cool a germination regime tends to prolong germination time, and you
often get results like yours.

It may well be a soil temperature problem, even with the heat mats. It
has been very cold here in Atlanta (down in the twenties)and I did start
these seeds two to three weeks before I usually do. I don't keep the
house really cold but with the price of gas, I cannot keep it really,
really warm!

Kay

Too cold is my bet, fuel prices increased, house temp declined

Are your heat mats all working? What is the dirt temp? (I've read it should
be 70-80 F.) Could the water have been contaminated from a laundry product?
Spot spray? Are you running all this on a timer? Could someone being
shutting off a wall switch that's cutting the power to the mats and lights?

I know.....some silly questions.....I'm just fishin.

Cheers,
Jim


"Sterling" wrote in message
...
I have started my own seeds every spring for the past 5-6 years. I have
one of those wire coated, heavy duty shelves in my laundry room. I
suspend shop lights over 4 shelves and have three seed heat mats. I use
both seed start mix and jiffy pots. I use water that has been allowed to
stand to remove the chlorine. There is a heat vent at the bottom of the
shelves (I keep 1/2 open) that circulates air and heat. This is not in
the basement near any possible gas leak...

Always worked very, very well in previous years.

THIS YEAR I am having difficulty getting ANY pepper seeds to germinate.
Not the bells or jalapeno or cayennes... I FINALLY got 3 varieties of
tomatoes to germinate but it took about 3-4 weeks to see any green.
Tomatoes are usually up in 3 days.

I tried again with the peppers - all new seed - and in both seed start
and jiffy mix. NO PEPPERS! I planted 10 jiffy pots of cantaloupe and now
have only 2 growing. Cucumbers same - 10 to get 2. I can dig up the
seeds and they are not rotted. Just white and clean looking. Like PLASTIC!

I planted 30 of the Park's Lighthouse salvias and now have 2. Zinnias (I
know don't like transplanting but have done well for me in the past) I
have planted twice! No zinnias. Pinwheel variety. Not a speck of green.

The marigolds, cosmos, coleus and impatiens are doing fine.

I cannot figure that anything has changed from last year.

ANY ideas??????????? I am so puzzled....

Play4abuck wrote:
Are your heat mats all working? What is the dirt temp? (I've read it should
be 70-80 F.) Could the water have been contaminated from a laundry product?
Spot spray? Are you running all this on a timer? Could someone being
shutting off a wall switch that's cutting the power to the mats and lights?

I know.....some silly questions.....I'm just fishin.

Cheers,
Jim

Well, these are the kind of heat mats that go under the flats and are
supposed to raise the temp by "10 to 20 degrees" over ambient. All my
thermometers (at least the kind I can stick in the dirt) start much
higher than 70-80 degrees so I have brought one in from outdoors and now
have it standing with it's base on the bottom of the inside of the flat
and I'll see what it settles at. I'll also try it on top of some jiffy
pots and see.

No timer - but the heat mats stay on 24/7 and I turn on the lights when
I get my coffee in the morning, and turn them off before I go to bed. I
am sure they are not getting turned off by anyone else.

I did place some phone books under the heat mats as it seemed that (with
the wire shelves) they were not staying warm enough. That helped. The
mats are warm and working. But it may be that the house has just not
been as warm. Lot of people don't realize how cold Atlanta really gets
but we've had temps below 20 this year plus an ice storm. Maybe the
house just has not been as warm.

I don't use laundry sprays very much but I'll chew on the idea that
maybe something chemical got in there.

Thanks for "fishin" as that is what I am doing.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:05:13 -0500, Sterling wrote:
thanks very much - I will try all of your suggestions and see what
transpires.

Kay Lancaster wrote:

If they're fully imbibed, not rotting, and not sprouting, you've either
got a soil temperature problem

what should the temperature be? I do have the peppers on the heat mat...

Peppers are germination tested at 20oC if I recall correctly (it's been
20 years!), or about 68oF. Germ tests are done at close to optimum conditions
for each species.


DO NOT SOAK THEM -- most people soak seeds in too-deep a water, and they
strangle them from low oxygen tension. At this stage, of germination, it
would probably be fatal for them.

How wet should the seeds be kept? - the directions always say "moist not
wet" but I have always wondered about this. I do make sure the water
runs out the bottom and there is no standing water but they always
follow up with "do not allow to dry out".

About as moist as a sponge you'd use for wiping off a kitchen counter.
Not dripping, but definitely moist. It's easier to keep the trays covered
with something until germination starts -- 1) it helps prevent drying
and 2) you're not dealing with evaporative cooling.
But you need to get the cover off ASAP at the first signs of the
cotyledons emerging, because moist, stagnant air means the fungi move in.
Personally, I like a combination of a humidifier and a fan to keep
home=grown seedlings happy, but your mileage will vary.

If you think you're having problems with seeds drowning or drying out
in your soil, try putting about an inch of sand in the top of the pots,
and planting in the sand. The sand should be what's called "builder's
sand", the fairly coarse stuff that goes into making concrete, not beach
sand (which is likely to be salty.) It's hard to overwater sand, but it
holds quite a bit of intersitial water.

Dried out seeds that have started to germinate are dead seeds. Seeds that
someone has presoaked in a couple of inches of water are often dead seeds.

You might call your water company, too, and check the hardness and salinity
of your water... too many minerals in the water can build up to the point
that the seeds can't extract free water from the soil (it's an osmoticum
problem.) You can see the same with salts in the soil, including fertilizer.
FWIW, I loathe and detest jiffy pots. They tear when they're waterlogged,
they wick water and your seedlings dry out at the most inopportune times,
and they tend to contribute to a compact rootball instead of nice spreading
rootgrowth in the garden. Try plain ol' plastic pots. Clean and well rinsed
before filling.

I'll post an old sort of faq of mine written for this group many years ago,
as a separate post.

Kay

Thanks very much - all good info.

My Granddad used to say "I try to learn something new every day ...
because every day I forget something else..."

Kay Lancaster wrote:
On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:05:13 -0500, Sterling wrote:

thanks very much - I will try all of your suggestions and see what
transpires.

Kay Lancaster wrote:


If they're fully imbibed, not rotting, and not sprouting, you've either
got a soil temperature problem

what should the temperature be? I do have the peppers on the heat mat...


Peppers are germination tested at 20oC if I recall correctly (it's been
20 years!), or about 68oF. Germ tests are done at close to optimum conditions
for each species.


DO NOT SOAK THEM -- most people soak seeds in too-deep a water, and they
strangle them from low oxygen tension. At this stage, of germination, it
would probably be fatal for them.

How wet should the seeds be kept? - the directions always say "moist not
wet" but I have always wondered about this. I do make sure the water
runs out the bottom and there is no standing water but they always
follow up with "do not allow to dry out".


About as moist as a sponge you'd use for wiping off a kitchen counter.
Not dripping, but definitely moist. It's easier to keep the trays covered
with something until germination starts -- 1) it helps prevent drying
and 2) you're not dealing with evaporative cooling.
But you need to get the cover off ASAP at the first signs of the
cotyledons emerging, because moist, stagnant air means the fungi move in.
Personally, I like a combination of a humidifier and a fan to keep
home=grown seedlings happy, but your mileage will vary.

If you think you're having problems with seeds drowning or drying out
in your soil, try putting about an inch of sand in the top of the pots,
and planting in the sand. The sand should be what's called "builder's
sand", the fairly coarse stuff that goes into making concrete, not beach
sand (which is likely to be salty.) It's hard to overwater sand, but it
holds quite a bit of intersitial water.

Dried out seeds that have started to germinate are dead seeds. Seeds that
someone has presoaked in a couple of inches of water are often dead seeds.

You might call your water company, too, and check the hardness and salinity
of your water... too many minerals in the water can build up to the point
that the seeds can't extract free water from the soil (it's an osmoticum
problem.) You can see the same with salts in the soil, including fertilizer.
FWIW, I loathe and detest jiffy pots. They tear when they're waterlogged,
they wick water and your seedlings dry out at the most inopportune times,
and they tend to contribute to a compact rootball instead of nice spreading
rootgrowth in the garden. Try plain ol' plastic pots. Clean and well rinsed
before filling.

I'll post an old sort of faq of mine written for this group many years ago,
as a separate post.

Kay

Without reading every post. Hot peppers are not adapted to our environment
and need heat to speed germination. Some peppers i plant may take up to a
month.
"Sterling" wrote in message
...


Play4abuck wrote:
Are your heat mats all working? What is the dirt temp? (I've read it
should
be 70-80 F.) Could the water have been contaminated from a laundry
product?
Spot spray? Are you running all this on a timer? Could someone being
shutting off a wall switch that's cutting the power to the mats and
lights?

I know.....some silly questions.....I'm just fishin.

Cheers,
Jim

Well, these are the kind of heat mats that go under the flats and are
supposed to raise the temp by "10 to 20 degrees" over ambient. All my
thermometers (at least the kind I can stick in the dirt) start much higher
than 70-80 degrees so I have brought one in from outdoors and now have it
standing with it's base on the bottom of the inside of the flat and I'll
see what it settles at. I'll also try it on top of some jiffy pots and
see.

No timer - but the heat mats stay on 24/7 and I turn on the lights when I
get my coffee in the morning, and turn them off before I go to bed. I am
sure they are not getting turned off by anyone else.

I did place some phone books under the heat mats as it seemed that (with
the wire shelves) they were not staying warm enough. That helped. The mats
are warm and working. But it may be that the house has just not been as
warm. Lot of people don't realize how cold Atlanta really gets but we've
had temps below 20 this year plus an ice storm. Maybe the house just has
not been as warm.

I don't use laundry sprays very much but I'll chew on the idea that maybe
something chemical got in there.

Thanks for "fishin" as that is what I am doing.