Hi folks, I've brought this topic up in this group before and people looked
at me like I had two heads. However, I've made a little head way since I
first appreared a few years ago and I'm looking for further input.

My long term project is to create a pepper/tomato hybrid that is spicy like
a pepper but retains tomato properties. Now that you're done laughing, read
on a little further.

I found a species of tomato that seems share some characteristics with the
common garden bell pepper. The "Striped Cavern"
http://www.rachelssupply.com/Tomato.htm
(near the bottom of the page)
looks like a good tomato to start with. As I understand it, the gene that
controls whether a pepper is "hot" or not is dominant and that polen from a
hot pepper can render non-hot peppers hot if you grow from seed. So, here's
the next step. I've got to introduce some polen from a suitable hot pepper
to the Striped Cavern. Should I first concentrate on trying to get results
from cross breeding the tomato with a regular bell pepper (the two species
are MUCH closer than any other tomato/pepper combination would be) and then
introduce some hot pepper pollen a few generations down the road? The idea
is to get this species of tomato to produce some heat, then breed it with a
more robust tomato to get a jucier inside.

How should I go about this. I've got a pretty good idea that it will
eventually work out for me, but is simple cross pollination enough to
achieve the desired results? Will this even result in fertile seeds, or
will I get some kind of weird plant that I can only propigate through
cuttings?

Any help is greatly appreciated, although please refrain from making fun of
me. I got enough of that last time around.

I think you should try to get a cross between a pepper and tomato and
then introduce the hot pepper pollen.
I will not make fun of you but have thought of some names for this new
species.
Such as: "Chili Tomatos" or Pepmatos?
Lets us know if it works.
Chuckie

"Chuckie" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think you should try to get a cross between a pepper and tomato and
then introduce the hot pepper pollen.
I will not make fun of you but have thought of some names for this new
species.
Such as: "Chili Tomatos" or Pepmatos?
Lets us know if it works.
Chuckie


I was thinking of taking that route. So should I just introduce the pepper
pollen to the tomatos, or take more drastic action such as carefully
snipping most of the staments from the tomato flowers as they open to ensure
that the majority of the pollen is from the pepper flowers? I'm at a bit of
a loss....

I think Chili Tomatos would be a good name, I'll keep that in mind.

If such an intergeneric cross were possible, it most certainly would have
been done long ago in Pre-Columbian times.

Since there is no such thing, you figure out whether it is possible or not.


"Chuckie" wrote in message
oups.com...
I think you should try to get a cross between a pepper and tomato and
then introduce the hot pepper pollen.
I will not make fun of you but have thought of some names for this new
species.
Such as: "Chili Tomatos" or Pepmatos?
Lets us know if it works.
Chuckie

If such an intergeneric cross were possible, it most certainly would have
been done long ago in Pre-Columbian times.

Since there is no such thing as a Capsicum X Lycopersicon hybrid, you figure
out whether it is possible or not. Simply crossing the two plants won't
work.

You would need to employ sophisticated gene splicing techniques that
probably would NOT get FDA approval!!!!


"Mook23" wrote in message
...
Hi folks, I've brought this topic up in this group before and people
looked at me like I had two heads. However, I've made a little head way
since I first appreared a few years ago and I'm looking for further input.

My long term project is to create a pepper/tomato hybrid that is spicy
like a pepper but retains tomato properties. Now that you're done
laughing, read on a little further.

I found a species of tomato that seems share some characteristics with the
common garden bell pepper. The "Striped Cavern"
http://www.rachelssupply.com/Tomato.htm
(near the bottom of the page)
looks like a good tomato to start with. As I understand it, the gene that
controls whether a pepper is "hot" or not is dominant and that polen from
a hot pepper can render non-hot peppers hot if you grow from seed. So,
here's the next step. I've got to introduce some polen from a suitable
hot pepper to the Striped Cavern. Should I first concentrate on trying to
get results from cross breeding the tomato with a regular bell pepper (the
two species are MUCH closer than any other tomato/pepper combination would
be) and then introduce some hot pepper pollen a few generations down the
road? The idea is to get this species of tomato to produce some heat,
then breed it with a more robust tomato to get a jucier inside.

How should I go about this. I've got a pretty good idea that it will
eventually work out for me, but is simple cross pollination enough to
achieve the desired results? Will this even result in fertile seeds, or
will I get some kind of weird plant that I can only propigate through
cuttings?

Any help is greatly appreciated, although please refrain from making fun
of me. I got enough of that last time around.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
.. .
If such an intergeneric cross were possible, it most certainly would have
been done long ago in Pre-Columbian times.

Since there is no such thing as a Capsicum X Lycopersicon hybrid, you
figure out whether it is possible or not. Simply crossing the two plants
won't work.

You would need to employ sophisticated gene splicing techniques that
probably would NOT get FDA approval!!!!



Well, seeing as how very few of the wild species that existed in
pre-columbian times still exist, and that the fruit we currently enjoy as
tomatos bear little resemblence to the orriginal wild species, I wouldn't
dismiss it out of hand just yet. We shall see.

Go over the considerable literature that has been written on the breeding of
New World Solanum, Lycopersicon and Capsicum as well as the taxonomic
literature and recent DNA studies and you will find plenty of info on the
interrelationship between the genera. It will save you time with your idle
speculation once you enlighten yourself on what is already known. That is
what you should see, you mook. I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying you
should be more realistic about the actual limitations. You are stepping into
well trod ground here. Your idea is not a new one at all.


"Mook23" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
.. .
If such an intergeneric cross were possible, it most certainly would have
been done long ago in Pre-Columbian times.

Since there is no such thing as a Capsicum X Lycopersicon hybrid, you
figure out whether it is possible or not. Simply crossing the two plants
won't work.

You would need to employ sophisticated gene splicing techniques that
probably would NOT get FDA approval!!!!



Well, seeing as how very few of the wild species that existed in
pre-columbian times still exist, and that the fruit we currently enjoy as
tomatos bear little resemblence to the orriginal wild species, I wouldn't
dismiss it out of hand just yet. We shall see.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
. ..
Go over the considerable literature that has been written on the breeding
of New World Solanum, Lycopersicon and Capsicum as well as the taxonomic
literature and recent DNA studies and you will find plenty of info on the
interrelationship between the genera. It will save you time with your idle
speculation once you enlighten yourself on what is already known. That is
what you should see, you mook. I'm not dismissing anything. I'm saying you
should be more realistic about the actual limitations. You are stepping
into well trod ground here. Your idea is not a new one at all.


Trust me, I'm trying to get my hands on anything I can find. From what I
can tell, the orriginal "star fruit" that came over to the old world were
much closer to pepper than they currently are. I've located a few species
of heirloom plants that I feel sort of straddle the ground between the two
species. If you have any specific references, I'd love to track them down.
There is some speculation on whether or not the botany program at our local
university will be continued or not, so I may not have contact with
professors who could be of some help in this respect. I thought I'd start
out with some preliminary experiments and see where they take me. I don't
have access to a lab or any fancy equipment, but I'm still hopeful. I think
it's mostly a matter of finding species which will produce fertile fruits.

"Mook23" wrote in message
...
Hi folks, I've brought this topic up in this group before and people
looked
at me like I had two heads. However, I've made a little head way since I
first appreared a few years ago and I'm looking for further input.

My long term project is to create a pepper/tomato hybrid that is spicy
like
a pepper but retains tomato properties. Now that you're done laughing,
read
on a little further.

I found a species of tomato that seems share some characteristics with the
common garden bell pepper. The "Striped Cavern"
http://www.rachelssupply.com/Tomato.htm
(near the bottom of the page)
looks like a good tomato to start with. As I understand it, the gene that
controls whether a pepper is "hot" or not is dominant and that polen from
a
hot pepper can render non-hot peppers hot if you grow from seed. So,
here's
the next step. I've got to introduce some polen from a suitable hot
pepper
to the Striped Cavern. Should I first concentrate on trying to get
results
from cross breeding the tomato with a regular bell pepper (the two species
are MUCH closer than any other tomato/pepper combination would be) and
then
introduce some hot pepper pollen a few generations down the road? The
idea
is to get this species of tomato to produce some heat, then breed it with
a
more robust tomato to get a jucier inside.

How should I go about this. I've got a pretty good idea that it will
eventually work out for me, but is simple cross pollination enough to
achieve the desired results? Will this even result in fertile seeds, or
will I get some kind of weird plant that I can only propigate through
cuttings?

Any help is greatly appreciated, although please refrain from making fun
of
me. I got enough of that last time around.



I'm sure the ng's resident Snooty Jerk will respond dismissively to your
ideas, but to be more diplomatic, these are separate genera, perhaps
separate families for all I know. I'm no geneticist. But I don't think you
can cross pollinate these plants.

You may have more luck with selective breeding of tomatoes themselves, to
try isolating and reinforcing the spicy aspect you want by inbreeding. This
could take your entire life or longer, no joke.

Don't bother responding, Cereus, you're killfiled and I'll never see your
arrogant response.

If he does, please don't quote him. I don't want to see his patronizing
lectures.

Don't mind Trollski, Mook, he's the village idiot around here.
................

No Trollski, you meat head, you are not even close. If you had any brains,
you'd be a retard and you full well know it. Your absolute ignorance of
botany is most astounding. So, you should keep your dimwitted remarks to
yourself and just stay lurking in the dark abusing yourself.

Lycopersicon and Capsicum most definitely are in the same plant family
Solanaceae. Since the two genera have been agriculturally important since
pre-Columbian times there is much information on them. It is best to go over
the copious published literature before beating a dead horse. Or in your
case, Trollski, beating yourself.

Being in different genera is not a barrier to hybridization in plants. See
the Orchidaceae and Poaceae for example. I have successfully made many
intergeneric crosses with succulent plants, so I know from personal
experience that such a thing can be done. Since you have absolutely no
experience with plants, Trollski, you wouldn't know that.


"Leon Trollski" wrote in message
news:cNebe.1135327$6l.35129@pd7tw2no...

"Mook23" wrote in message
...
Hi folks, I've brought this topic up in this group before and people
looked
at me like I had two heads. However, I've made a little head way since I
first appreared a few years ago and I'm looking for further input.

My long term project is to create a pepper/tomato hybrid that is spicy
like
a pepper but retains tomato properties. Now that you're done laughing,
read
on a little further.

I found a species of tomato that seems share some characteristics with
the
common garden bell pepper. The "Striped Cavern"
http://www.rachelssupply.com/Tomato.htm
(near the bottom of the page)
looks like a good tomato to start with. As I understand it, the gene
that
controls whether a pepper is "hot" or not is dominant and that polen from
a
hot pepper can render non-hot peppers hot if you grow from seed. So,
here's
the next step. I've got to introduce some polen from a suitable hot
pepper
to the Striped Cavern. Should I first concentrate on trying to get
results
from cross breeding the tomato with a regular bell pepper (the two
species
are MUCH closer than any other tomato/pepper combination would be) and
then
introduce some hot pepper pollen a few generations down the road? The
idea
is to get this species of tomato to produce some heat, then breed it with
a
more robust tomato to get a jucier inside.

How should I go about this. I've got a pretty good idea that it will
eventually work out for me, but is simple cross pollination enough to
achieve the desired results? Will this even result in fertile seeds, or
will I get some kind of weird plant that I can only propigate through
cuttings?

Any help is greatly appreciated, although please refrain from making fun
of
me. I got enough of that last time around.



I'm sure the ng's resident Snooty Jerk will respond dismissively to your
ideas, but to be more diplomatic, these are separate genera, perhaps
separate families for all I know. I'm no geneticist. But I don't think
you
can cross pollinate these plants.

You may have more luck with selective breeding of tomatoes themselves, to
try isolating and reinforcing the spicy aspect you want by inbreeding.
This
could take your entire life or longer, no joke.

Don't bother responding, Cereus, you're killfiled and I'll never see your
arrogant response.

If he does, please don't quote him. I don't want to see his patronizing
lectures.

You should check with Agricola and other agricultural and botanical
databases.

http://agricola.nal.usda.gov/


"Mook23" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
. ..
Go over the considerable literature that has been written on the breeding
of New World Solanum, Lycopersicon and Capsicum as well as the taxonomic
literature and recent DNA studies and you will find plenty of info on the
interrelationship between the genera. It will save you time with your
idle speculation once you enlighten yourself on what is already known.
That is what you should see, you mook. I'm not dismissing anything. I'm
saying you should be more realistic about the actual limitations. You are
stepping into well trod ground here. Your idea is not a new one at all.


Trust me, I'm trying to get my hands on anything I can find. From what I
can tell, the orriginal "star fruit" that came over to the old world were
much closer to pepper than they currently are. I've located a few species
of heirloom plants that I feel sort of straddle the ground between the two
species. If you have any specific references, I'd love to track them
down. There is some speculation on whether or not the botany program at
our local university will be continued or not, so I may not have contact
with professors who could be of some help in this respect. I thought I'd
start out with some preliminary experiments and see where they take me. I
don't have access to a lab or any fancy equipment, but I'm still hopeful.
I think it's mostly a matter of finding species which will produce fertile
fruits.

"Cereus-validus....." wrote in message
. ..
You should check with Agricola and other agricultural and botanical
databases.

http://agricola.nal.usda.gov/


Thank you VERY much. This is greatly needed shot in the arm.