To Bag- or not to bag?
 

I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used the
grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag all the
time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up--- or would the clipping just disintegrate? And how bad is thatch
anyhow?

Jos.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Jos. Wheeler said:

I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used the
grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag all the
time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up---

Yes. Very much so. The clippings from a standard blade will not chop them
fine enough to break down before they build up. If you mow often enough, so
that the clippings are small, and keep the grass at the correct height for
the species, you *may* not have an issue. But, it would require a rigid
schedule to ensure that you don't build up the thatch layer to thick.

or would the clipping just disintegrate?

No. See above.

And how bad is thatch anyhow?

A little acts as a light mulch, is necessary, breaks down as a
high-nitrogen fertilizer, and acts as a cushion for foot traffic. Too much
acts as a barrier, keeping water, fertilizer, and air from penetrating to
the roots. It also provides a save haven for insect infestation.

If you choose to allow a thatch buildup, you can help control it several
ways. You can top dress your lawn with a light layer of compost, or the
introduction of earthworms which will eat the thatch. If the thatch becomes
too thick, then a bit more drastic measures need to be taken. You can
verti-cut your lawn. It's sometimes called a "power rake". In essence, it's
a vertical-cutting lawnmower. It's going to leave your lawn looking a mess,
but immediately after you're through, just rake up the lose stolons, and
throw them away. After you've cleaned up, then you'll need to aerate (with
a core-aeraor, and then top dress with compost.

Maintaining your lawn the way it is, would probably be the least amount of
work. From your description, you're doing things right. A nice lawn
requires a lot of work. There are no shortcuts.

--
Eggs

Do infants enjoy infancy as much as adults enjoy adultery?

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

"Jos. Wheeler" joe@csa wrote:
I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used
the grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag
all the time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up--- or would the clipping just disintegrate? And how bad is
thatch anyhow?

Jos.

Clippings aren't thatch. Thatch is part of your growing grass plants, so
no, you're not bagging won't really contribute to your thatch layer.
Clippings will make a very un-sightly mess behind your mower if they are
excessive tho..you can go back over it and chop it again with your tractor
and disperse the clippings again..I like to bag during the spring and fall,
I use it for weed block along the back forty fence line. Aerate once a year
if you can.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Steveo said:

wrote:
Jos. Wheeler said:

I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's
hot clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always
used the grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying
the bag all the time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up---

Yes. Very much so.

Nope. Clippings aren't thatch. Clippings will smother the turf long before
they become part of the thatch layer.

I never said they "were" thatch. But, they *can* contribute to it's
build-up. It depends on how long they are, which would depend on how often
the lawn is mowed, and at what height.

--
Eggs

-A man who lives in a glass house should change in the basement.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Steveo said:

Clippings aren't thatch. Thatch is part of your growing grass plants, so
no, you're not bagging won't really contribute to your thatch layer.

Sorry, but the above statement is only partially correct. While it's true
that "clippings aren't thatch", it is untrue that they won't contribute to
the thatch layer.

Just curious as to your background in turf grass management, if you don't
mind providing that information. Please don't take that as any type of
flame. I really am only curious.

--
Eggs

-It ain't the jeans that make your butt look fat.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Stevo knows his stuff and has been posting here for several years

"Eggs Zachtly" wrote in message
...
Steveo said:

Clippings aren't thatch. Thatch is part of your growing grass plants, so
no, you're not bagging won't really contribute to your thatch layer.

Sorry, but the above statement is only partially correct. While it's true
that "clippings aren't thatch", it is untrue that they won't contribute to
the thatch layer.

Just curious as to your background in turf grass management, if you don't
mind providing that information. Please don't take that as any type of
flame. I really am only curious.

--
Eggs

-It ain't the jeans that make your butt look fat.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

plug said:

Stevo knows his stuff and has been posting here for several years

Oh, I don't doubt it. I've lurked here a while, just haven't posted. My
question as to his background was not meant to be derogatory at all. The
OP's question has no cut and dry answer.

There are many more factors involved than just "can I quit bagging". The
thickness of the existing thatch layer being one. If the clippings cannot
come in contact with the organisms near the soil layer, they can't
breakdown, and therefore *will* contribute to the thatch layer, creating
more problems than simply removing the clippings.

--
Eggs

A piece of motorway and piece of dual carriage way are enjoying a drink in
the pub. In walks a piece of red tarmac. The motorway whispers to the
carrageway "Come on lets drink up and go before the trouble starts; He's a
cyclepath!"

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Thank's Plug..I am speaking the truth.

plug" wrote:
Stevo knows his stuff and has been posting here for several years

"Eggs Zachtly" wrote in message
...
Steveo said:

Clippings aren't thatch. Thatch is part of your growing grass plants,
so no, you're not bagging won't really contribute to your thatch
layer.

Sorry, but the above statement is only partially correct. While it's
true that "clippings aren't thatch", it is untrue that they won't
contribute to the thatch layer.

Just curious as to your background in turf grass management, if you
don't mind providing that information. Please don't take that as any
type of flame. I really am only curious.

--
Eggs

-It ain't the jeans that make your butt look fat.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Steveo said:

wrote:
Steveo said:

Clippings aren't thatch. Thatch is part of your growing grass plants,
so no, you're not bagging won't really contribute to your thatch layer.

Sorry, but the above statement is only partially correct. While it's true
that "clippings aren't thatch", it is untrue that they won't contribute
to the thatch layer.

Just curious as to your background in turf grass management, if you don't
mind providing that information. Please don't take that as any type of
flame. I really am only curious.

I take care of my grass.

Ahh. That must make you an expert, then.


You're so smart about grass, show me where grass clippings are thatch,

There you are again, with the "clippings are thatch". Again, that's not
what I said. I explained how they can *contribute* to thatch, in my reply
to plug, as well as in my reply to the OP. You, as you've done before,
conveniently snipped that part of my reply. If you want to play little
Usenet games by snipping all but the part of your reply that will fit your
argument, I've no time for that.

and then tell me your qualifications.

I'm currently a Horticulturist at a private country club, and working
towards a degree in Grounds Management. Doesn't make me an expert, nope.
Never claimed that it did. But, I'll stand by my claims as *I've* made
them, not as *you've* snipped and altered them.

--
Eggs

-Going to church doesn't make you a Christian, any more than standing in a
garage makes you a car.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

"Jos. Wheeler" joe@csa wrote in message
...
I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used the
grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag all
the time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up--- or would the clipping just disintegrate? And how bad is thatch
anyhow?

Jos.

Thanks for the suggestions-- and the humorous tit for tat...

Jos.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
There you are again, with the "clippings are thatch". Again, that's not
what I said. I explained how they can *contribute* to thatch, in my reply

Clippings do not contribute to thatch any more than snowfall contributes
to a pile of dirt.

--
Art

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Artemis wrote:
Eggs Zachtly wrote:
There you are again, with the "clippings are thatch". Again, that's not
what I said. I explained how they can *contribute* to thatch, in my
reply

Clippings do not contribute to thatch any more than snowfall contributes
to a pile of dirt.

What he said!

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Artemis said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
There you are again, with the "clippings are thatch". Again, that's not
what I said. I explained how they can *contribute* to thatch, in my reply

Clippings do not contribute to thatch any more than snowfall contributes
to a pile of dirt.

Of course they do.

Thatch is the layer of undecomposed and partially decomposed plant
material, tightly interwoven with living tissue between the soil surface
and the green vegetation. This is *including*, but not limited to,
clippings. If lawns are mowed regularly, so that no more than 1/3 of the
leaf height is removed each time, there's no need to bag.

That was my only point. If you feel that's incorrect, that's totally on
you, but you would be the one that was wrong. There are more factors to
consider than just the desire to bag or not.

Never fear, I'll waste no more of my time trying to convince you what
contributes to thatch. You obviously don't understand, or can't comprehend
it.

--
Eggs

Before they invented drawing boards, what did they go back to?

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Jos. Wheeler said:

"Jos. Wheeler" joe@csa wrote in message
...
I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used the
grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag all
the time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up--- or would the clipping just disintegrate? And how bad is thatch
anyhow?

Jos.

Thanks for the suggestions-- and the humorous tit for tat...


Take about a two-inch deep plug out of your turf and examine the thatch
layer. If it's only about 1/2" thick, you'll be fine with regular, proper
mowing. My apologies if my choice of wording steered you wrong. There
really is no simple, absolute answer. There are a number of variables to be
considered.

HTH HAND
--
Eggs

Can atheists get insurance for acts of God?

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

do you have a degree in horticulture?
"Eggs Zachtly" wrote in message
...
Steveo said:

wrote:
Steveo said:

Clippings aren't thatch. Thatch is part of your growing grass plants,
so no, you're not bagging won't really contribute to your thatch layer.

Sorry, but the above statement is only partially correct. While it's
true
that "clippings aren't thatch", it is untrue that they won't contribute
to the thatch layer.

Just curious as to your background in turf grass management, if you
don't
mind providing that information. Please don't take that as any type of
flame. I really am only curious.

I take care of my grass.

Ahh. That must make you an expert, then.


You're so smart about grass, show me where grass clippings are thatch,

There you are again, with the "clippings are thatch". Again, that's not
what I said. I explained how they can *contribute* to thatch, in my reply
to plug, as well as in my reply to the OP. You, as you've done before,
conveniently snipped that part of my reply. If you want to play little
Usenet games by snipping all but the part of your reply that will fit your
argument, I've no time for that.

and then tell me your qualifications.

I'm currently a Horticulturist at a private country club, and working
towards a degree in Grounds Management. Doesn't make me an expert, nope.
Never claimed that it did. But, I'll stand by my claims as *I've* made
them, not as *you've* snipped and altered them.

--
Eggs

-Going to church doesn't make you a Christian, any more than standing in a
garage makes you a car.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Jos

From UC Davis

http://axp.ipm.ucdavis.edu/TOOLS/TUR...IN/thatch.html
Thatch is the layer of living and dead stems, roots, stolons, and rhizomes
between the green blades of grass and the soil surface. A thin layer of
thatch (less than 1/2 inch thick) can be beneficial to the lawn because it
helps to limit weed germination, reduce water evaporation, and protect from
frost damage. However, thick thatch layers can prevent water, air, and
nutrients from penetrating the soil, causing reduced root growth and
increased potential for drought stress. Thatch also favors fungal growth and
can harbor insect pests. Some turfgrass species, such as tall fescue and
perennial ryegrass, do not produce much thatch. Other turfgrass species,
such as bermudagrass, bentgrass, and Kentucky bluegrass, have creeping
growth habits and rapidly build thick thatch layers.

Tips for preventing thatch build up
Follow proper fertilization practices; avoid excessive amounts of nitrogen.
Avoid frequent and shallow irrigation on established lawns.
Mow properly; remove clippings if too much of the grass is removed at one
time. (should never remove more than 1/3 of the length at a time)

The UC Guide to Healthy Lawns
http://axp.ipm.ucdavis.edu/TOOLS/TURF/


Jos. Wheeler" joe@csa wrote in message
...
I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used the
grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag all
the time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up--- or would the clipping just disintegrate? And how bad is thatch
anyhow?

Jos.

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

If you really think this question is difficult, no wonder you need a degree
in another field. Thatch is not a difficult subject
"Eggs Zachtly" wrote in message
...
Jos. Wheeler said:

"Jos. Wheeler" joe@csa wrote in message
...
I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used
the
grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag all
the time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up--- or would the clipping just disintegrate? And how bad is
thatch
anyhow?

Jos.

Thanks for the suggestions-- and the humorous tit for tat...


Take about a two-inch deep plug out of your turf and examine the thatch
layer. If it's only about 1/2" thick, you'll be fine with regular, proper
mowing. My apologies if my choice of wording steered you wrong. There
really is no simple, absolute answer. There are a number of variables to
be
considered.

HTH HAND
--
Eggs

Can atheists get insurance for acts of God?

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Nicole said:

do you have a degree in horticulture?

In about three weeks, yup. =)

--
Eggs

Are part-time band leaders semi-conductors?

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

here in CA, there's a big difference between horticulture and grounds
management. in fact, grounds management for golf courses is a vocational
certificate.
"Eggs Zachtly" wrote in message
...
Nicole said:

do you have a degree in horticulture?

In about three weeks, yup. =)

--
Eggs

Are part-time band leaders semi-conductors?

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Nicole said:

here in CA, there's a big difference between horticulture and grounds
management. in fact, grounds management for golf courses is a vocational
certificate.

Big difference here, too. But, most Supers that I've worked for had degrees
from major universities, in their field.

Most of the guys on the grounds crew work just that; the course itself, and
aren't really interested in horticulture. Horticulture is totally separate,
but both are still under the Superintendant. About the only time we
actually cross jobs, is if there's a large sodding project or renovation,
I'll give them a hand. And, when it comes time to cut down the ornamental
grasses strewn all over the course, they'll give me a hand (with the full
crew, including seasonal staff, this can take almost two full weeks). I
think I get the good end of that deal, heh. Of course, after this season's
severe storms (I'm near St. Louis, Mo), we've all spent the majority of our
time with the mundane task of limb and other debris removal. :/

I'm definately ready for some more stable weather.

--
Eggs

Do cemetery workers prefer the graveyard shift?

To Bag- or not to bag?
 

Jeez.... Dude, I bag every 4th cut to prevent this type of argument. Also I
use the clippings in my veggie garden for the nitro. But I start in the
middle of my yard and side discharge towards outbound and get wider and
wider, blowing to the outer edge. When I get to where I am blowing the
clippings ( or leaves in the fall) past the end, I then put on the bag, and
I only have to empty the bag a few times, and I'm back inside reading the
stupid comments in here....


"Jos. Wheeler" joe@csa wrote in message
...
I've got a well established 31 tall fescue lawn growing in Atlanta's hot
clay soil (nicest one in the neighborhood, actually). I've always used the
grass catcher on my mower but I'm getting tired of emptying the bag all
the time.

If I just let the clippings spray out onto the lawn, would I get thatch
build-up--- or would the clipping just disintegrate? And how bad is thatch
anyhow?

Jos.