"Stubby" wrote in message
...
Another trick for applying herbicides is to use two pairs of gloves.
First put on some good, long-sleeve "rubber" gloves to protect
yourself. Next, use a pair of cheap cotton gloves. Soak up the first
finger (maybe thumb, too) in the herbicide and use the other hand to
position the target leaves. This allows leaf-at-a-time application
without spraying.

Thanks for another good idea. The painting method would work well on
the 5-leaf stuff because there's not so much of it. That other stuff,
"gloving" all those leaves would be a pain, and that doesn't deal with
the root system which is lurking there waiting to pop up somewhere else.
You have to get all the leaves connected to the system. If I pull on
the leaf stems and they don't break off (little ones do), I often get a
foot or more of root along with it, and I know there's more left under
there waiting to break out somewhere else.

But I like the sound of that much better than spraying. Worth a try on
a target area and go from there.

"Tom The Great" wrote in message
...

Nice

Are you serious? It looks quaint and cottagy, but in the long run it is
a mess.

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
said:

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
I Love Lucy said:

wrote in message
ups.com...

If the vines are in an area where you can spray, then just spraying
with 3% Roundup will work. Or you can cut and then treat the new
growth with Roundup or one of the similar products made for weeds and
brush. They are cheaper and more effective than triclopyr, which is a
selective herbicide.

I doubt a 3% solution of Roundup will kill such a mature vine.

Have you ever tried it? I've routinely used it on mature poison ivy
and it works very well. On ground based poison ivy, I just spray it on.
If it's a large vine going up a tree, with no accessible leaves, I cut
it, wait till new growth emerges, then spray it a month later.

I use it often at work, when the need arises, to kill all green growth in
an area (hardscape joints, cool-seaason grasses trying to come through
dormant zoysia, etc.).

Never had to brush it on.

Then you never tried to selectively remove plants. You take the lazy way
and just kill off the entire area.

Who the hell are you to tell me I'm lazy? And how do you know where
my poison ivy was that required hand application of Roundup? All I
said was that I never had to hand apply it. Do you think poision ivy
only grows next to desirable plants?



In the case of clover, Dacamine would be
a MUCH better choice of a herbicide than triclopyr. Triclopyr is better
suited to *woody* plants (such as the ivy in question).


In my experience the broad spectrum total vegetation type killers have
always been more effective than a selective herbicide, where there is a
tradeoff on what it will and won't kill.

Of course, if you don't care about the surrounding vegetation, then a
"total vegetation type killer" will do the job. Using specific chemicals,
for specific applications, is MUCH more efficient.

BS. First, in all this discussion, has anyone told the OP that the
triclopyr won't kill whatever desirable plants she has around? Of
course not. In fact the recommendation was to apply the triclopyr
like a product that will kill everything. And for good reason, as it
likely will kill her other plants, unless they happen to be turfgrass
and likely that too if she uses it at concentrations to kill poison
ivy.

As for specific application herbicides being more efficient than a
broad spectrum kill everything one, that is BS too. There are major
tradeoffs in a chemical that will kill weeds, while leaving a desirable
plant unharmed. Are you gonna try to tell us that the crabgrass
killer one can buy in the local home center is more effective than
Roundup? What a joke. Roundup will kill the crabgrass and the
surrounding grass in a week. The crap they sell for crabgrass, might
kill it after 2 or 3 applications and a month. Even Acclaim, which is
very effective against crabgrass, isn't nearly as effective as Roundup.

And as in the example I gave above, Roundup will dispatch clover a hell
of a lot better than any of the selective herbicides.

(Disclaimer for morons. This does not mean one should use Roundup on
their lawn)




I'm curious as to just what your "experience" with the multitude of
herbicides on the market, is. Killing clover and plantain in your backyard?

For example, triclopyr is
used for clover control in lawns. It usually takes at least two
applications to control it. The first tends to just stunt it. If you
sprayed that with Roundup or another total vegetation killer, it would
be dead the first time, but so would the grass.

Yup. Then you're left replacing much more vegetation than necessary.

Well Duh? Did I ever say to spray a total vegetation killer in areas
where there is desirable vegetation? Sure, I wouldn't use Roundup on
turf, where there are solutions that will kill the weeds, but leave the
plant. What the hell does that have to do with whether Roundup or
Triclopyr is better suited to killing poision ivy? The OP doesn;t
have it in her lawn.



And, I
don't know anyone that uses triclopyr to kill clover, when dacamine does
the job in one application, at the same time doing NO harm to the
surrounding turf grasses.


As to the OP's question of future planting following Roundup, it's safe
to replant a week after application.


snip

I'll leave you the links below. You could obviously use them. When you've
finished, do a search on dacamine.


More reading on both products:
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/triclopy.htm
http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/glyphosa.htm

I Love Lucy said:

Thanks for another good idea. The painting method would work well on
the 5-leaf stuff because there's not so much of it. That other stuff,
"gloving" all those leaves would be a pain, and that doesn't deal with
the root system which is lurking there waiting to pop up somewhere else.
You have to get all the leaves connected to the system. If I pull on
the leaf stems and they don't break off (little ones do), I often get a
foot or more of root along with it, and I know there's more left under
there waiting to break out somewhere else.

That's why systemic herbicides are effective. They're absorbed by the
plant, and kill it by distributing the poison just as if it were food. So,
the whole plant gets the herbicide.

--
Eggs

-Two cows standing next to each other in a field, Daisy says to Dolly "I
was artificially inseminated this morning."
"I don't believe you," said Dolly. "It's true, no bull!" exclaimed Daisy.

said:


Who the hell are you to tell me I'm lazy? And how do you know where
my poison ivy was that required hand application of Roundup? All I
said was that I never had to hand apply it. Do you think poision ivy
only grows next to desirable plants?

You keep bringing up poison ivy, but it's not the plant in question.


In the case of clover, Dacamine would be
a MUCH better choice of a herbicide than triclopyr. Triclopyr is better
suited to *woody* plants (such as the ivy in question).


In my experience the broad spectrum total vegetation type killers have
always been more effective than a selective herbicide, where there is a
tradeoff on what it will and won't kill.

Of course, if you don't care about the surrounding vegetation, then a
"total vegetation type killer" will do the job. Using specific chemicals,
for specific applications, is MUCH more efficient.

BS. First, in all this discussion, has anyone told the OP that the
triclopyr won't kill whatever desirable plants she has around? Of
course not. In fact the recommendation was to apply the triclopyr
like a product that will kill everything. And for good reason, as it
likely will kill her other plants, unless they happen to be turfgrass
and likely that too if she uses it at concentrations to kill poison
ivy.

I see you've not read the links I provided. Too bad.

The "painting" recommendation was was because it was unclear what other
plants were in the area. It's better to be safe about it. If there are
woody plants in the vicinity, then I'd err on the side of caution. You, on
the other hand, would spray the area with Roundup, then replace all the
shrubs and any other plants in the vicinity. Effective? Sure. Efficient?
Not in the least.


As for specific application herbicides being more efficient than a
broad spectrum kill everything one, that is BS too. There are major
tradeoffs in a chemical that will kill weeds, while leaving a desirable
plant unharmed. Are you gonna try to tell us that the crabgrass
killer one can buy in the local home center is more effective than
Roundup? What a joke. Roundup will kill the crabgrass and the
surrounding grass in a week. The crap they sell for crabgrass, might
kill it after 2 or 3 applications and a month. Even Acclaim, which is
very effective against crabgrass, isn't nearly as effective as Roundup.

Wow you don't get it, do you? So, by your logic (sic.), you only consider
an herbicide effective if it totally decimates the surrounding vegetation.
Glad you don't work for me.


And as in the example I gave above, Roundup will dispatch clover a hell
of a lot better than any of the selective herbicides.

There's more factors involved with killing crabgrass than just spotting it
and running for your bottle of herbicide. But, you wouldn't know anything
about that, would you?


(Disclaimer for morons. This does not mean one should use Roundup on
their lawn)


I'm curious as to just what your "experience" with the multitude of
herbicides on the market, is. Killing clover and plantain in your backyard?

For example, triclopyr is
used for clover control in lawns. It usually takes at least two
applications to control it. The first tends to just stunt it. If you
sprayed that with Roundup or another total vegetation killer, it would
be dead the first time, but so would the grass.

Yup. Then you're left replacing much more vegetation than necessary.

Well Duh? Did I ever say to spray a total vegetation killer in areas
where there is desirable vegetation?

That's all you've been saying. "If I got clover, I just kill the whole area
with Roundup." So, you're gonna change your story, mid-stream now?

Sure, I wouldn't use Roundup on
turf, where there are solutions that will kill the weeds, but leave the
plant.

Again, that's all you've been saying.

What the hell does that have to do with whether Roundup or
Triclopyr is better suited to killing poision ivy? The OP doesn;t
have it in her lawn.

She doesn't have it at all, dumbass. You seem to be the one with all the
poison ivy. She wants to remove Virginia Creeper, and another vine, that is
NOT poison ivy, but quite resembles poison oak, from the first picture she
posted (still no positive id).

--
Eggs

-Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to use the Net and
he won't bother you for weeks

Eggs Zachtly wrote:
The "painting" recommendation was was because it was unclear what other
plants were in the area. It's better to be safe about it. If there are
woody plants in the vicinity, then I'd err on the side of caution. You, on
the other hand, would spray the area with Roundup, then replace all the
shrubs and any other plants in the vicinity. Effective? Sure. Efficient?
Not in the least.

You apparently are so stupid that you can't or won't read. The very
first post in this thread I said this:

If the vines are in an area where you can spray, then just spraying
with 3% Roundup will work. Or you can cut and then treat the new
growth with Roundup or one of the similar products made for weeds and
brush. They are cheaper and more effective than triclopyr, which is a
selective herbicide.

How in the hell could anyone but a complete moron interpret that to
mean that I recommended killing everything and replacing shrubs. Are
you really that stupid?




As for specific application herbicides being more efficient than a
broad spectrum kill everything one, that is BS too. There are major
tradeoffs in a chemical that will kill weeds, while leaving a desirable
plant unharmed. Are you gonna try to tell us that the crabgrass
killer one can buy in the local home center is more effective than
Roundup? What a joke. Roundup will kill the crabgrass and the
surrounding grass in a week. The crap they sell for crabgrass, might
kill it after 2 or 3 applications and a month. Even Acclaim, which is
very effective against crabgrass, isn't nearly as effective as Roundup.

Wow you don't get it, do you? So, by your logic (sic.), you only consider
an herbicide effective if it totally decimates the surrounding vegetation.
Glad you don't work for me.

Again, how you know perfectly well I never said any such thing. The
exact quote is above, read it and learn. To make a point, I only said
that in general, herbicides that kill virtually all vegetation are more
effective than selective ones that have to leave plants, like lawn
grass, standing. And that Roundup works against ivy, poison or
otherwise, is cheap, and a good solution. If the OP has some Roundup
in the garage, or can get it for less than another alternative, should
she run out and buy something else, just because you happen to say so?
Monsanto says Roundup works on ivy. I've used it myself and it works.





And as in the example I gave above, Roundup will dispatch clover a hell
of a lot better than any of the selective herbicides.

There's more factors involved with killing crabgrass than just spotting it
and running for your bottle of herbicide. But, you wouldn't know anything
about that, would you?



Yeah nice avoidance of the fact that Roundup will kill crabgrass and
anything else a lot better than the selective herbicide. BTW, I'm not
gonna take the bait and start another discussion with a moron about how
to kill mature crabgrass.




(Disclaimer for morons. This does not mean one should use Roundup on
their lawn)


I'm curious as to just what your "experience" with the multitude of
herbicides on the market, is. Killing clover and plantain in your backyard?

For example, triclopyr is
used for clover control in lawns. It usually takes at least two
applications to control it. The first tends to just stunt it. If you
sprayed that with Roundup or another total vegetation killer, it would
be dead the first time, but so would the grass.

Yup. Then you're left replacing much more vegetation than necessary.

Well Duh? Did I ever say to spray a total vegetation killer in areas
where there is desirable vegetation?

That's all you've been saying. "If I got clover, I just kill the whole area
with Roundup." So, you're gonna change your story, mid-stream now?

You really are either a total moron or a liar. Show me where I ever
said that "If I got clover, I just kill the whole area." I never
said any such thing. What I said was a total vegetation killer, if
sprayed on the clover or crabgrass in turf would quickly kill the
clover and crabgrass as well as the grass. While a selective
herbicide that will leave the grass alive, makes it harder to kill the
clover/crabgrass, because it's less effective. That's one of the
tradeoffs with selective herbicides. Got it now, or must I repeat it
again?





Sure, I wouldn't use Roundup on
turf, where there are solutions that will kill the weeds, but leave the
plant.

Again, that's all you've been saying.

Liar



What the hell does that have to do with whether Roundup or
Triclopyr is better suited to killing poision ivy? The OP doesn;t
have it in her lawn.

She doesn't have it at all, dumbass. You seem to be the one with all the
poison ivy. She wants to remove Virginia Creeper, and another vine, that is
NOT poison ivy, but quite resembles poison oak, from the first picture she
posted (still no positive id).

And it don;t matter moron, because apparently she has desirable plants,
not turf, around what she is trying to kill. Which is why the
application will be exactly the same whatever she uses to kill it.

Oh, and another thing. You accused me of being lazy claiming that I
spray Roundup around, killing desirable plants to get at weeds, which
is a total fabrication Well, that's another good inisight into your
knowledge and experince ain't it? You obviously think it's easier to
kill desirable vegetation, like turf, or in the OPs case other plants,
shrubs, etc and then replant and regrow things. Doing that ain't lazy,
it's stupid, because it's more cost and far more work.

And here;s more insight to your expertise:

"Cut them back to a few inches from the ground, and then paint them
with a
half-strength solution of triclopyr."

Anyone with experience with these chemicals knows that half-strength
makes no sense. Half of what? You can buy triclopyr in all kinds of
concentrations. So half strength of what, genius?


Now get the **** out of here, OK. All the OP has is some ivy, which
she can kill with triclopyr, Roundup, or a dozen other products. This
is a simple thing, people do it every day, and you have no lock on the
only solution.




--
Eggs

-Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach him to use the Net and
he won't bother you for weeks

major snippage.

24D may kill it like a big dog. Have you tried a three way selective
herbicide on it yet?

"Eggs Zachtly" wrote in message
...
I Love Lucy said:

Thanks for another good idea. The painting method would work well on
the 5-leaf stuff because there's not so much of it. That other
stuff,
"gloving" all those leaves would be a pain, and that doesn't deal
with
the root system which is lurking there waiting to pop up somewhere
else.
You have to get all the leaves connected to the system. If I pull on
the leaf stems and they don't break off (little ones do), I often get
a
foot or more of root along with it, and I know there's more left
under
there waiting to break out somewhere else.

That's why systemic herbicides are effective. They're absorbed by the
plant, and kill it by distributing the poison just as if it were food.
So,
the whole plant gets the herbicide.

My son just came over. I've been kicking this dialog around, well it
got a little ugly but I'll try to stay out of that as I'm a newbie here
anyway. He's got Roundup and a sprayer. Now the only thing I'm worried
about is I will try to cover existing plants, there aren't a whole lot
to worry about right now, but he says it kills everything for a year.
Does that mean I can't plant new things where it has been sprayed and
scatter wildflower seeds in the fall and things won't grow for a year or
just the sprayed broadleaf vegetation won't grow for a year?

--
Eggs

-Two cows standing next to each other in a field, Daisy says to Dolly
"I
was artificially inseminated this morning."
"I don't believe you," said Dolly. "It's true, no bull!" exclaimed
Daisy.