wrote in message newsWcOi.139942$Fc.30459@attbi_s21...
Harry K wrote:
On Oct 7, 5:36 am, Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip
this is precious, simply precious


Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?

Assuming you're unable to mow them into oblivion*, you could try a rake.
It's a relatively new invention, so, like when CD players first became
available, you might have to get on a waiting list. No matter what anyone
tells you, you can rake & bag as fast as or faster than with a leaf blower.

* Yes, there are situations where you can't use the mower to grind up the
leaves.

On Oct 7, 11:53 am, Jim wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip

this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

http://www.milkyspore.com/

I've been trying to move my customers towards organic methods.
triple shred, putting leaves through the shredder three times
produces some dense mulch. with the new and deeper understanding
acquired recently for how many of the selective herbicides and
insecticides as well as improper or incorrect applications of
nitrogen actually have a great negative impact on the environment
as well as the ground water, I've decided it is now time to make
some changes concerning how the suburbanites acquire and obtain
the lawns they desire.

in short, if the chemical bonds with the soil at the molecular
particle level then that chemical is removed from my list of
what is acceptable to use. the list is getting short.

Jim-


What difference does it make if any particular chemical bonds with the
soil at the molecular level as opposed to just going straight on to
the ground water or into lakes, streams via runoff? I'm not even
aware that chemicals are made to molecularly bond to soil to begin
with.

In article .com,
wrote:

On Oct 7, 11:53 am, Jim wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip

this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

http://www.milkyspore.com/

I've been trying to move my customers towards organic methods.
triple shred, putting leaves through the shredder three times
produces some dense mulch. with the new and deeper understanding
acquired recently for how many of the selective herbicides and
insecticides as well as improper or incorrect applications of
nitrogen actually have a great negative impact on the environment
as well as the ground water, I've decided it is now time to make
some changes concerning how the suburbanites acquire and obtain
the lawns they desire.

in short, if the chemical bonds with the soil at the molecular
particle level then that chemical is removed from my list of
what is acceptable to use. the list is getting short.

Jim-


What difference does it make if any particular chemical bonds with the
soil at the molecular level as opposed to just going straight on to
the ground water or into lakes, streams via runoff? I'm not even
aware that chemicals are made to molecularly bond to soil to begin
with.

The ions from chemical fertilizer salts, can be slowed down considerably
as they pass through your soil, by clay. Good garden soil is about 20% -
30% clay. Problem is that these fertilizer salts can harm/kill the micro
flora and fauna in soil. A healthy, diversified population of
micro-organisms will give you a healthy lawn if you feed them with
compost. There is more to it but that is the gist.
--
FB - FFF

Billy

Get up, stand up, stand up for yor rights.
Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.
- Bob Marley

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:

do_see wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip
this is precious, simply precious


Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?

Assuming you're unable to mow them into oblivion*, you could try a rake.
It's a relatively new invention,

yea and I'll be glad when they invent a better
muffler for that loud thing called a rake. g

so, like when CD players first became
available, you might have to get on a waiting list. No matter what anyone
tells you, you can rake & bag as fast as or faster than with a leaf blower.

* Yes, there are situations where you can't use the mower to grind up the
leaves.

I laughed until it hurt watching a city boy take a
bagging mower into a flower bed.

trader4 wrote:

Jim wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip

this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

http://www.milkyspore.com/

I've been trying to move my customers towards organic methods.
triple shred, putting leaves through the shredder three times
produces some dense mulch. with the new and deeper understanding
acquired recently for how many of the selective herbicides and
insecticides as well as improper or incorrect applications of
nitrogen actually have a great negative impact on the environment
as well as the ground water, I've decided it is now time to make
some changes concerning how the suburbanites acquire and obtain
the lawns they desire.

in short, if the chemical bonds with the soil at the molecular
particle level then that chemical is removed from my list of
what is acceptable to use. the list is getting short.

Jim-

What difference does it make if any particular chemical bonds with the
soil at the molecular level as opposed to just going straight on to
the ground water or into lakes, streams via runoff? I'm not even
aware that chemicals are made to molecularly bond to soil to begin
with.

it's not that the chemicals were made to bond with the
soil, it is that they do. as for run off, there are
proper precautions one can take to minimize run off
the simplest of which is to adhere to the proper
applications rates. when chemicals such as herbicides
are applied within the correct rate the vast majority
of the chemical is taken up by the target plants and
never achieves run off status.

most people have no idea of how to calibrate an application
device so as to know their exact output. they have not sought
the training and therefore have no understanding for distance,
time, pressure or volume.

it was a good decision when the full strength chemicals were
placed out of reach of joe home owner...

organic is the total solution to the problem...
http://www.milkyspore.com/

Billy wrote:

trader4 wrote:
Jim wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip

this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

http://www.milkyspore.com/

I've been trying to move my customers towards organic methods.
triple shred, putting leaves through the shredder three times
produces some dense mulch. with the new and deeper understanding
acquired recently for how many of the selective herbicides and
insecticides as well as improper or incorrect applications of
nitrogen actually have a great negative impact on the environment
as well as the ground water, I've decided it is now time to make
some changes concerning how the suburbanites acquire and obtain
the lawns they desire.

in short, if the chemical bonds with the soil at the molecular
particle level then that chemical is removed from my list of
what is acceptable to use. the list is getting short.

Jim-


What difference does it make if any particular chemical bonds with the
soil at the molecular level as opposed to just going straight on to
the ground water or into lakes, streams via runoff? I'm not even
aware that chemicals are made to molecularly bond to soil to begin
with.

The ions from chemical fertilizer salts, can be slowed down considerably
as they pass through your soil, by clay. Good garden soil is about 20% -
30% clay. Problem is that these fertilizer salts can harm/kill the micro
flora and fauna in soil. A healthy, diversified population of
micro-organisms will give you a healthy lawn if you feed them with
compost. There is more to it but that is the gist.

organic!

In article ,
Jim wrote:

Billy wrote:

trader4 wrote:
Jim wrote:
Harry K wrote:
Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip

this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

http://www.milkyspore.com/

I've been trying to move my customers towards organic methods.
triple shred, putting leaves through the shredder three times
produces some dense mulch. with the new and deeper understanding
acquired recently for how many of the selective herbicides and
insecticides as well as improper or incorrect applications of
nitrogen actually have a great negative impact on the environment
as well as the ground water, I've decided it is now time to make
some changes concerning how the suburbanites acquire and obtain
the lawns they desire.

in short, if the chemical bonds with the soil at the molecular
particle level then that chemical is removed from my list of
what is acceptable to use. the list is getting short.

Jim-


What difference does it make if any particular chemical bonds with the
soil at the molecular level as opposed to just going straight on to
the ground water or into lakes, streams via runoff? I'm not even
aware that chemicals are made to molecularly bond to soil to begin
with.

The ions from chemical fertilizer salts, can be slowed down considerably
as they pass through your soil, by clay. Good garden soil is about 20% -
30% clay. Problem is that these fertilizer salts can harm/kill the micro
flora and fauna in soil. A healthy, diversified population of
micro-organisms will give you a healthy lawn if you feed them with
compost. There is more to it but that is the gist.

organic!

In a word, yes.

My point should have been that the binding of chem ferts (salts) in the
soil is inadvertent and wasn't planed by Monsanto, Dow, et al.. If you
have diversified micro-organisms growing in your soil, they take up
nitrogen compounds (NH4+ and NO3-) during their life cycles and release
it to plants when they die. A little fish emulsion or manure from time
to time should be sufficient. Otherwise the breakdown of carbohydrates
from from lawn clippings or compost will keep the micro-organisms happy
and fed.
--
FB - FFF

Billy

Get up, stand up, stand up for yor rights.
Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.
- Bob Marley

xPosTech wrote:
On 10/7/2007 5:17 PM, wrote:
Harry K wrote:
On Oct 7, 5:36 am, Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip
this is precious, simply precious


Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?
Why wait till they're 3 feet deep?

Around here, you can have a few leaves one day, and 3 feet the next.

Neon John wrote:
On Sun, 07 Oct 2007 22:17:56 GMT, wrote:

Harry K wrote:
On Oct 7, 5:36 am, Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip
this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?

Blow 'em up into a big pile. Jump and play in the pile, recalling one's youth. Then
set 'em afire and enjoy the warmth and the lovely odor. Burning leaves are one of my
favorite smells, a warm reminder that fall is here at last.

John
--
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.johndearmond.com -- best little blog on the net!
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms should be a convenience store, not a government agency.

Can't stand the smell of burning leaves.
Tree hugger don'tcha know.

Harry K wrote:
On Oct 7, 3:17 pm, wrote:
Harry K wrote:
On Oct 7, 5:36 am, Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:
To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip
this is precious, simply precious
Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.
Harry K
What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Raise the mower deck and mow away. Would take several passes but when
done the leaves will have disappeared...or rather what shows will
disapear in a few days. I haven't done 3ft but have done 1 ft.

Methinks you exagerate a bit with the 3 foot layer.

You want to waste your time and valuable soil amendment by raking,
bagging and thowing away, be my guest but don't knock a sensible
method of dealing with leaves.

Harry K
Harry K

I'll link a few pictures later.

JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message newsWcOi.139942$Fc.30459@attbi_s21...
Harry K wrote:
On Oct 7, 5:36 am, Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip
this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?

Assuming you're unable to mow them into oblivion*, you could try a rake.
It's a relatively new invention, so, like when CD players first became
available, you might have to get on a waiting list. No matter what anyone
tells you, you can rake & bag as fast as or faster than with a leaf blower.

* Yes, there are situations where you can't use the mower to grind up the
leaves.


I will argue that point with you also.

do_see wrote:

Neon John wrote:
do_see wrote:

[....]

What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?

Blow 'em up into a big pile. Jump and play in the pile, recalling one's youth. Then
set 'em afire and enjoy the warmth and the lovely odor. Burning leaves are one of my
favorite smells, a warm reminder that fall is here at last.


Can't stand the smell of burning leaves.
Tree hugger don'tcha know.

a good hot quick burning fire is not the problem. it's the
attempt at burning wet leaves and the one creating a smoldering
smoke screen blanking the neighborhood who creates the smell of
an undesirable mess.

wrote in message news:reCOi.141760$Fc.98619@attbi_s21...
JoeSpareBedroom wrote:
wrote in message newsWcOi.139942$Fc.30459@attbi_s21...
Harry K wrote:
On Oct 7, 5:36 am, Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:

To winterize or not to winterize lawn
snip
this is precious, simply precious

Yeah. I have seen that several times over the years and there is so
much truth to it. I see that the annual 'what to use to bag leaves'
threads have started over alt.home.repair. Even after they have been
told the simple way is to mow/mulch em, they still go on about buying
fancy equipment to vacuum them up.

Harry K

What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?

Assuming you're unable to mow them into oblivion*, you could try a rake.
It's a relatively new invention, so, like when CD players first became
available, you might have to get on a waiting list. No matter what anyone
tells you, you can rake & bag as fast as or faster than with a leaf
blower.

* Yes, there are situations where you can't use the mower to grind up the
leaves.
I will argue that point with you also.

Argue what? That there are situations where a mower won't handle the leaves?
I'm listening.

Jim wrote:
symplastless wrote:
To winterize or not to winterize lawn

"Winterize your lawn", the big sign outside the garden store commanded. I've
fed it, watered it, mowed it, raked it and watched a lot of it die away. Now
I'm supposed to winterize it? I hope it's too late. Grass lawns have to be
the stupidest thing we've come up with outside of a thong swimsuits! We
constantly battle dandelions, Queen's lace, thistle, violets, chicory and
clover that thrive naturally, so we can grow grass that must be nursed
through an annual four-step chemical dependency.

Imagine the conversation The Creator might have with St. Francis about this:

"Frank you know all about gardens and nature. What in the world is going on
down there in the Midwest? What happened to the dandelions, violets, thistle
and stuff I started eons ago? I had a perfect, no-maintenance garden plan.
Those plants grow in any type of soil, withstand drought and multiply with
abandon. The nectar from the long-lasting blossoms attracted butterflies,
honeybees and flocks of songbirds. I expected to see a vast garden of colors
by now. But all I see are these green rectangles."

" It's the tribes that settled there, Lord. The Suburbanites.

They started calling your flowers "weeds" and went to great extent to kill
them and replace them with grass".

" Grass? But its so boring. Its not colorful. It doesn't attract
butterflies, birds and bees, Only grubs and sod worms. Its' temperamental
with temperatures. Do these Suburbanites really want all that green grass
growing there?

" Apparently so, Lord, They go to great pains to grow it and keep it green.
They begin each spring by fertilizing grass and poising any other plant that
crops up in the lawn".

" The spring rains and cool weather probably make grass grow really fast.
That must make the Suburbanites happy".

" Not exactly, Lord. As soon as it grows a little, they cut it-sometimes
twice a week".

" They cut it? Do they then bale it like hay?"

" Not exactly, Lord. Most of them rake it up and put it in bags."

" They bag it? Why? Is it a cash crop? Do they sell it?"

" No, sir. Just the opposite. They pay to throw it away".

" Now let me get this straight. They fertilize grass so it will grow. And
when it does grow, they cut it off and pay to throw it away?"

" Yes, sir."

" These Suburbanites must be relieved in the summer when we cut back on the
rain and turn up the heat. That surely slows the growth and saves them a lot
of work."

" You aren't going to believe this Lord. When the grass stops growing so
fast, they drag out hoses and pay more money to water it so they can
continue to mow it and pay to get rid of it."

" What nonsense! At least they kept some of the trees. That was a sheer
stroke of genius,

if I do say so myself. The trees grow leaves in the spring to provide beauty
an d shade in the summer . In the autumn they fall to the ground and form a
natural blanket

to keep moisture in the soil and protect the trees and bushes. Plus, as they
rot, the leaves form compost to enhance the soil. It's a natural circle of
life."

" You better sit down, Lord. The suburbanites have drawn a new circle. As
soon as the leaves fall, they rake them into great piles and have them
hauled away."

" No! What do they do to protect the shrub and the tree roots in the winter
and keep the soil moist and loose?"

" After throwing away your leaves, they go out and buy something they call
mulch. They haul it home and spread it around in the place of leaves."

" and where do they get this mulch?"

" They cut down trees and grind them up."

"Enough! I don't want to think about this anymore. Saint Catherine, you're
in charge of the arts. What movie have you scheduled for us tonight?"

" Dumb and Dumber, Lord. It's a real stupid movie about.

" Never mind I think I just heard the whole story."

anonymous

this is precious, simply precious...

Good piece! Seriously, I don't want waist high grass and weeds right up
close to the house, so we just mow the weeds couple times a month three
inches high with a mulching mower. Eventually, the area becomes a lawn,
as the goldenrod doesn't like being cut short, only plants that prefer
being three inches high survive.

--
Remove the TOS star ship captain to reply privately.

Jim wrote:
do_see wrote:

Neon John wrote:
do_see wrote:

[....]
What do you do when there is a 3 foot layer of leaves?
Blow 'em up into a big pile. Jump and play in the pile, recalling one's youth. Then
set 'em afire and enjoy the warmth and the lovely odor. Burning leaves are one of my
favorite smells, a warm reminder that fall is here at last.


Can't stand the smell of burning leaves.
Tree hugger don'tcha know.

a good hot quick burning fire is not the problem. it's the
attempt at burning wet leaves and the one creating a smoldering
smoke screen blanking the neighborhood who creates the smell of
an undesirable mess.
If I try to burn them, that's exactly what happens.