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#61
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 28, 2:02*am, Bosco wrote:
On Thu, 27 Dec 2007 07:42:51 -0800 (PST), z wrote: On Dec 26, 9:48*pm, Art wrote: z wrote: On Dec 26, 12:37 pm, Art wrote: z wrote: On Dec 19, 9:47 am, "Ryan P." wrote: * That's half false. *Obviously, global warming occurs. *However, nothing approaching a majority of scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor. Well, as long as we're talking SCIENCE here, I assume you have quantitative data. So, what estimated percentage of "scientists agree that HUMANS are the *main* factor"? (of course, you can just point us towards the reference for the study which determined the number.) Just about the same percentage that are getting gov't money to research it. Yep, just exactly the "rightwing scientific" answer I was looking for.. So, moving on in this direction of rightwing "facts", I'd love to hear how the grant process goes. I mean, nobody "researches global warming"; they just research CO2 levels in ice cores, etc. So, how do you apply for a grant to show global warming? The grant applications just say you're going to measure CO2 levels in ice cores, they don't say which direction you're going to find things, do you have to put that in a separate cover letter? Then, is that legally binding, so that they sue you to give them money back if you publish results that don't show global warming? It's important that the public know these things, don't you think? So you should let us in on the secrets, rather than keep them to yourself. Common sense says it's crap. I've been around a while and in just my lifetime - Nuclear war was gonna destroy the planet; then the ozone hole was gonna kill us all; now it's global warming. 10 years from now there will be a new doomsday theory. There have been people that claim "the end is near" as far back as recorded history and they all have one thing in common. They were wrong.. Many people just don't believe them anymore and I'm one of them. Has nothing to do with right or left wing. Even if man is causing an "unnatural" rise in CO2, nature has an incredible ability to bring things back into balance. There is little if anything that man can do to this planet that nature hasn't done on a much larger scale. Oh, I'm not worried about the planet. I'm worried about my kids. They're not nearly as sturdy as the planet. you brought offspring into this world ? offspring who will use up more and more resources that can NOT easily be replaced? You selfish unthinking *******. *Thanks to YOU Earth will overheat turning into a HELL planet.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Actually I recycled them from some folks who didn't need them any more. |
#62
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 28, 6:25*am, Art wrote:
z wrote: Oh, I'm not worried about the planet. I'm worried about my kids. They're not nearly as sturdy as the planet. Then teach them the lessons from the fable "Chicken Little". "Once there was a chicken who tried to explain to the other chickens that the nice guy who came and gave them food every day was going to kill and eat them, and all the other chickens laughed and said it couldn't happen" |
#63
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 29, 1:06*am, z wrote:
On Dec 27, 1:48*pm, "Ryan P." wrote: z wrote: On Dec 26, 6:32 pm, Lar wrote: This is how rightwing urban legends are built; piece by piece. Like the legend that ""experts were equally convinced that the planet faced a possible mini ice age from a cooling trend." Here's a story Time Magazine ran in '74http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,944914,00.html Lar If you're quoting Time Magazine as your climate "expert", you've pretty much shot yourself in the mouth right at the start. Who does that article quote as "scientists"? Well, Reid A. Bryson and Donald Oilman, both of whom are now widely quoted AGAINST the concept of global warming, and Kenneth Hare, who is quoted as saying that if the . . * You are making any argument with you impossible. *I could just as easily say that anybody you cite is FOR the concept of (man-made) global warming, and therefore can't be trusted. Hmm. Have to make this simple. Your argument seems to be something like this: 1) "experts" in the 70s argued that global cooling is coming 2) they were wrong 3) "experts" now argue global warming is coming 4) so you don't put any faith in it. Whereas, my argument is 3a) the few "experts" in the 70s who argued that global cooling are coming, are the ones that are now arguing that global warming is NOT coming; so you logically ought to not believe them, and believe the folks who did not say global cooling was coming.- PS: see also "They predicted a big hurricane season last year and it was minimal, so I don't believe when they predict global warming", vs. the fact that Dr. Bill Gray, the US' leading hurricane forcaster, who predicted the big hurricane season that didn't come, is another of the oft-quoted climate change skeptics. |
#64
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Global warming my ass!
Ryan P. wrote:
Art wrote: Are we allowed to tach fables anymore? I would have thought that they were considered to violoent by today's Politically Correct educational system? The Season 1 box set of "Sesame Street" was labeled "Not Suitable For Children" afterall... No one has to "allow" me to teach anything to my children. To pass on values, morals and common sense is the purpose of fables. You should not count on today's educational system to teach such. It is the parents' responsibility to fill in in these areas where the schools fall short. . . I agree 100%. Too bad GOOD parents have to spend so much energy to unteach the socialist dogma that is drilled into their children by public schools these days. But I was actually asking a serious question. I remember reading Aesop's Fables and discussing the moral lessons in grade school. Have they been changed and altered the way the lyrics to popular nursery rhymes have been? I have a tattered old book that has all the ones I grew up with. I imagine someone has passed them through a PC filter and re-published them but I'd bet one could still find the original versions if they looked. The way the internet is these days one could probably find dozens of versions on-line. I'm too lazy to go look, I like my old and tattered copy... -- Art |
#65
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Global warming my ass!
z wrote:
On Dec 28, 6:25 am, Art wrote: z wrote: Oh, I'm not worried about the planet. I'm worried about my kids. They're not nearly as sturdy as the planet. Then teach them the lessons from the fable "Chicken Little". "Once there was a chicken who tried to explain to the other chickens that the nice guy who came and gave them food every day was going to kill and eat them, and all the other chickens laughed and said it couldn't happen" Plonk. -- Art |
#66
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 29, 9:48*am, "Ryan P."
wrote: z wrote: Whereas, my argument is 3a) the few "experts" in the 70s who argued that global cooling are coming, are the ones that are now arguing that global warming is NOT coming; so you logically ought to not believe them, and believe the folks who did not say global cooling was coming.- . . * No, I personally don't put much faith in ANY hyped "potential" issue. * Going to school in the 80's, I remember FREQUENT mentions of mini ice-ages and related issues. . . PS: see also "They predicted a big hurricane season last year and it was minimal, so I don't believe when they predict global warming", vs. the fact that Dr. Bill Gray, the US' leading hurricane forcaster, who predicted the big hurricane season that didn't come, is another of the oft-quoted climate change skeptics. . . * Which should be proof that ANY climatologist is just guessing at what's going to happen beyond the 3-day forecast. Yeah, that's a good one. "The people who agree with me are obvious idiots, therefore I distrust the people who disagree with me, also". |
#67
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 29, 12:28*pm, Art wrote:
Plonk. I'm sorry, did someone ask about your drinking preferences? |
#68
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 29, 9:59*am, "Ryan P."
wrote: z wrote: On Dec 28, 8:27 pm, Bosco wrote: You think it's a "debate" with this guy. *It's not. *He couldn't care less about differring views he's only interested in spreading the gosple according to Algore. What is it with you guys and Al Gore? Do you now believe he claims to have invented global warming, like you believe he claims to have invented the Internet? . . * It's not that he invented global warming... its the fact that he has latched onto it in an attempt to build himself a Legacy. *Its the fact that he uses his (ahem) celebrity status to promote bad science (direct quote from the British "guide" to the movie when shown in schools: "...in parts of the film, Gore presents evidence and arguments which do not accord with mainstream scientific opinion." * Oh..he happens to be getting rich(er) from promoting alarmist scenarios instead of scientific studies. And you figure that he would, of course, latch on to something erroneous, since there aren't any causes which are correct that he could latch on to. |
#69
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 30, 12:42*am, "Ryan P."
wrote: * If experts were wrong 25 years ago, they can be wrong today. *Today, we *have groups of experts saying completely different things. *Hence, there is debate (despite those of you who like to yell at the top of your lungs that 'the debate is over.") No, you got one group of experts who were wrong 25 years ago but with whom you agree today, and another group who were not wrong 25 years ago, and with whom you disagree today. There isn't a 50/50 random distribution; there were folks who were wrong and folks who weren't. And you've decided the folks who were wrong, are probably the best predictors of what's really going on. Unless you have some reason other than to lump them all together as "experts" you're allied with the wrong side of the "debate". |
#70
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 28, 5:51*pm, Art wrote:
No one has to "allow" me to teach anything to my children. To pass on values, morals and common sense is the purpose of fables. You should not count on today's educational system to teach such. It is the parents' responsibility to fill in in these areas where the schools fall short. So sad your parents failed to do so. |
#71
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Global warming my ass!
On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 23:42:11 -0600, "Ryan P."
wrote: z wrote: . . Which should be proof that ANY climatologist is just guessing at what's going to happen beyond the 3-day forecast. Yeah, that's a good one. "The people who agree with me are obvious idiots, therefore I distrust the people who disagree with me, also". . . Read for context... This whole discussion is about whether or not man-made rapid climate change is taking place. If experts were wrong 25 years ago, they can be wrong today. Today, we have groups of experts saying completely different things. Hence, there is debate (despite those of you who like to yell at the top of your lungs that 'the debate is over.") More news: 2007 a Year of Weather Records in US By Seth Borenstein The Associated Press Saturday 29 December 2007 Washington - When the calendar turned to 2007, the heat went on and the weather just got weirder. January was the warmest first month on record worldwide - 1.53 degrees above normal. It was the first time since record-keeping began in 1880 that the globe's average temperature has been so far above the norm for any month of the year. And as 2007 drew to a close, it was also shaping up to be the hottest year on record in the Northern Hemisphere. U.S. weather stations broke or tied 263 all-time high temperature records, according to an Associated Press analysis of U.S. weather data. England had the warmest April in 348 years of record-keeping there, shattering the record set in 1865 by more than 1.1 degrees Fahrenheit. It wasn't just the temperature. There were other oddball weather events. A tornado struck New York City in August, inspiring the tabloid headline: "This ain't Kansas!" In the Middle East, an equally rare cyclone spun up in June, hitting Oman and Iran. Major U.S. lakes shrank; Atlanta had to worry about its drinking water supply. South Africa got its first significant snowfall in 25 years. And on Reunion Island, 400 miles east of Africa, nearly 155 inches of rain fell in three days - a world record for the most rain in 72 hours. Individual weather extremes can't be attributed to global warming, scientists always say. However, "it's the run of them and the different locations" that have the mark of man-made climate change, said top European climate expert Phil Jones, director of the climate research unit at the University of East Anglia in England. Worst of all - at least according to climate scientists - the Arctic, which serves as the world's refrigerator, dramatically warmed in 2007, shattering records for the amount of melting ice. 2007 seemed to be the year that climate change shook the thermometers, and those who warned that it was beginning to happen were suddenly honored. Former Vice President Al Gore's documentary "An Inconvenient Truth" won an Oscar and he shared the Nobel Peace Prize with the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, an international group of thousands of scientists. The climate panel, organized by the United Nations, released four major reports in 2007 saying man-made global warming was incontrovertible and an urgent threat to millions of lives. Through the first 10 months, it was the hottest year recorded on land and the third hottest when ocean temperatures are included. Smashing records was common, especially in August. At U.S. weather stations, more than 8,000 new heat records were set or tied for specific August dates. More remarkably that same month, more than 100 all-time temperature records were tied or broken - regardless of the date - either for the highest reading or the warmest low temperature at night. By comparison only 14 all-time low temperatures were set or tied all year long, as of early December, according to records kept by the National Climatic Data Center. For example, on Aug. 10, the town of Portland, Tenn., reached 102 degrees, tying a record for the hottest it ever had been. On Aug. 16, it hit 103 and Portland had a new all-time record. But that record was broken again the next day when the mercury reached 105. Daily triple-digit temperatures took a toll on everybody, public safety director George West recalled. The state had 15 heat-related deaths in August. Portland was far from alone. In Idaho, Chilly Barton Flat wasn't living up to its name. The weather station in central Idaho tied an all-time high of 100 on July 26, Aug. 7, 14 and 19. During 2007, weather stations in 35 states, from Washington to Florida, set or tied all-time heat records in 2007. Across Europe this past summer, extreme heat waves killed dozens of people. And it wasn't just the heat. It was the rain. There was either too little or too much. More than 60 percent of the United States was either abnormally dry or suffering from drought at one point in August. In November, Atlanta's main water source, Lake Lanier, shrank to an all-time low. Lake Okeechobee, crucial to south Florida, hit its lowest level in recorded history in May, exposing muck and debris not seen for decades. Lake Superior, the biggest and deepest of the Great Lakes, dropped to its lowest August and September levels in history. Los Angeles hit its driest year on record. Lakes fed by the Colorado River and which help supply water for more than 20 million Westerners, were only half full. Australia, already a dry continent, suffered its worst drought in a century, making global warming an election issue. On the other extreme, record rains fell in China, England and Wales. Minnesota got the worst of everything: a devastating June and July drought followed by record August rainfall. In one March day, Southern California got torrential downpours, hail, snow and fierce winds. Then in the fall came devastating fires driven by Santa Ana winds. And yet none of those events worried scientists as much as what was going on in the Arctic in the summer. Sea ice melted not just to record levels, but far beyond the previous melt record. The Northwest Passage was the most navigable it had been in modern times. Russia planted a flag on the seabed under the North Pole, claiming sovereignty. The ice sheets that cover a portion of Greenland retreated to an all-time low and permafrost in Alaska warmed to record levels. Meteorologists have chronicled strange weather years for more than a decade, but nothing like 2007. It was such an extreme weather year that the World Meteorological Organization put out a news release chronicling all the records and unusual developments. That was in August with more than 145 sizzling days to go. Get used to it, scientists said. As man-made climate change continues, the world will experience more extreme weather, bursts of heat, torrential rain and prolonged drought, they said. "We're having an increasing trend of odd years," said Michael MacCracken, a former top federal climate scientist, now chief scientist at the Climate Institute in Washington. "Pretty soon odd years are going to become the norm." |
#72
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Global warming my ass!
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:19:32 -0600, "Ryan P."
wrote: And the news continues from the other side: Al Gore says global warming is a planetary emergency. It is difficult to see how this can be so when record low temperatures are being set all over the world. In 2007, hundreds of people died, not from global warming, but from cold weather hazards. .... Ryan, global warming predicts this. More energy = more odd weather, on average, warmer but lots colder in places. I thought you believed the earth was getting warmer but that it wasn't human action, but now you're throwing in stuff pretending that the earth is getting cooler. Which is it? |
#73
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Global warming my ass!
For more information on global warming and to post information about
it please visite: www.Myclimatechange.net. ++ |
#74
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 31, 1:20*pm, "Ryan P."
wrote: z wrote: On Dec 28, 5:51 pm, Art wrote: No one has to "allow" me to teach anything to my children. To pass on values, morals and common sense is the purpose of fables. You should not count on today's educational system to teach such. It is the parents' responsibility to fill in in these areas where the schools fall short. So sad your parents failed to do so. . . * So...because he doesn't agree with you, he is a substandard person? You too. |
#75
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Global warming my ass!
On Dec 31, 1:31*pm, dgk wrote:
On Mon, 31 Dec 2007 12:19:32 -0600, "Ryan P." wrote: *And the news continues from the other side: Al Gore says global warming is a planetary emergency. It is difficult to see how this can be so when record low temperatures are being set all over the world. In 2007, hundreds of people died, not from global warming, but from cold weather hazards. ... Ryan, global warming predicts this. More energy = more odd weather, on average, warmer but lots colder in places. I thought you believed the earth was getting warmer but that it wasn't human action, but now you're throwing in stuff pretending that the earth is getting cooler. Which is it? As soon as your opponent displays that he believes that "the earth isn't warming" and, simultaneously, that "the earth is warming, but it's not manmade", you might as well give up the debate. |
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