Afternoon everyone....

I've spent the last two days digging up my garden to get rid of the enormous amount of weeds and rocks which i've now pretty much done. My initial intention was to sow grass seeds to grow my lawn back but i don't think this is an option due to the state the garden is in. I was wondering if there was a membrane that could be used so i could lay this out and then put the turf on top? I've had a look at a couple of web-sites that only seem to sell membranes suitable for flower beds, shrubberies etc etc.
Has anyone any ideas?
Thanks
Jim

On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 15:59:49 +0100, jim123
wrote:


Afternoon everyone....

I've spent the last two days digging up my garden to get rid of the
enormous amount of weeds and rocks which i've now pretty much done. My
initial intention was to sow grass seeds to grow my lawn back but i
don't think this is an option due to the state the garden is in. I was
wondering if there was a membrane that could be used so i could lay
this out and then put the turf on top? I've had a look at a couple of
web-sites that only seem to sell membranes suitable for flower beds,
shrubberies etc etc.
Has anyone any ideas?
Thanks
Jim

If by membrane; you mean a solid product and not a mesh landscape
screen, then look a water garden / pond liner. A rubber liner of
various thickness.

If you need drainage..use the landscape screen.

Black plastic film will work. Lanscape fabric is awful because weeds,
including crabgrass, will come up through it.

"Oren" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 15:59:49 +0100, jim123
wrote:


Afternoon everyone....

I've spent the last two days digging up my garden to get rid of the
enormous amount of weeds and rocks which i've now pretty much done. My
initial intention was to sow grass seeds to grow my lawn back but i
don't think this is an option due to the state the garden is in. I was
wondering if there was a membrane that could be used so i could lay
this out and then put the turf on top? I've had a look at a couple of
web-sites that only seem to sell membranes suitable for flower beds,
shrubberies etc etc.
Has anyone any ideas?
Thanks
Jim

If by membrane; you mean a solid product and not a mesh landscape
screen, then look a water garden / pond liner. A rubber liner of
various thickness.

If you need drainage..use the landscape screen.

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.

Not wanting to sound like a complete idiot.....black plastic film....is this a specialist thing i'll find in garden centres or are we just talking bin liners here??

Thanks again....

"jim123" wrote in message
...

'Stubby[_2_ Wrote:
;802510']Black plastic film will work. Lanscape fabric is awful
because weeds,
including crabgrass, will come up through it.

"Oren" wrote in message
...-
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 15:59:49 +0100, jim123
wrote:
-

Afternoon everyone....

I've spent the last two days digging up my garden to get rid of the
enormous amount of weeds and rocks which i've now pretty much done.
My
initial intention was to sow grass seeds to grow my lawn back but i
don't think this is an option due to the state the garden is in. I
was
wondering if there was a membrane that could be used so i could lay
this out and then put the turf on top? I've had a look at a couple of
web-sites that only seem to sell membranes suitable for flower beds,
shrubberies etc etc.
Has anyone any ideas?
Thanks
Jim-

If by membrane; you mean a solid product and not a mesh landscape
screen, then look a water garden / pond liner. A rubber liner of
various thickness.

If you need drainage..use the landscape screen.
-

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.

Not wanting to sound like a complete idiot.....black plastic film....is
this a specialist thing i'll find in garden centres or are we just
talking bin liners here??

Thanks again....




--
jim123

I've been watching this thread and finally had to respond --

1. Putting an impermeable plastic down under sod is a really bad idea.
It's not going to keep weeds out of your yard and it will interfere with the
normal growth of the sod. Water will run off and things will heat up and
dry out almost immediately, and you either won't have enough soil below the
turf to keep the grass alive or you'll have enough to allow weeds to grow --
plus lots of other reasons. Don't do it.

2. If you MUST use a weed-stop fabric, make it a permeable one -- BUT -- I
haven't talked to anyone who used a weedstop fabric who, over the long term,
liked the results. There are two reasons (or more). (1) Whenever you want
to dig a hole, plant a tree or shrub, etc., the damn fabric is in the way
and you have to get a knife or scissors and cut out your planting area.
It's a pain. and (2) It doesn't do much good. Although it keeps weeds from
growing up through the fabric, many/most of the weeds start at the surface
or above the level of the fabric and grow DOWN into the subsurface. If
grass will grow, so will weeds. Wind / birds / animals / clothing / weather
will bring weed seeds into the yard.

The best way to keep weeds out of your turfgrass is to grow a very good,
tightly knot turf that overpowers any weeds that try to get started. Weed
stop fabric is a waste of time and money, now and later.

On Jul 9, 10:02*pm, "JimR" wrote:
"jim123" wrote in message

...







'Stubby[_2_ Wrote:
;802510']Black plastic film will work. * Lanscape fabric is awful
because weeds,
including crabgrass, will come up through it.

"Oren" wrote in message
. ..-
On Sun, 6 Jul 2008 15:59:49 +0100, jim123
wrote:
-

Afternoon everyone....

I've spent the last two days digging up my garden to get rid of the
enormous amount of weeds and rocks which i've now pretty much done.
My
initial intention was to sow grass seeds to grow my lawn back but i
don't think this is an option due to the state the garden is in. I
was
wondering if there was a membrane that could be used so i could lay
this out and then put the turf on top? I've had a look at a couple of
web-sites that only seem to sell membranes suitable for flower beds,
shrubberies etc etc.
Has anyone any ideas?
Thanks
Jim-

If by membrane; you mean a solid product and not a mesh landscape
screen, then look a water garden / pond liner. A rubber *liner of
various thickness.

If you need drainage..use the landscape screen.
-

Thanks for the tips, much appreciated.

Not wanting to sound like a complete idiot.....black plastic film....is
this a specialist thing i'll find in garden centres or are we just
talking bin liners here??

Thanks again....

--
jim123

I've been watching this thread and finally had to respond --

1. *Putting an impermeable plastic down under sod is a really bad idea.
It's not going to keep weeds out of your yard and it will interfere with the
normal growth of the sod. *Water will run off and things will heat up and
dry out almost immediately, and you either won't have enough soil below the
turf to keep the grass alive or you'll have enough to allow weeds to grow -- *
plus lots of other reasons. *Don't do it.


Yes, I couldn't figure out what exactly he was trying to do either.
"I've spent the last two days digging up my garden to get rid of the
enormous amount of weeds and rocks which i've now pretty much done.
My
initial intention was to sow grass seeds to grow my lawn back but i
don't think this is an option due to the state the garden is in. I
was
wondering if there was a membrane that could be used so i could lay
this out and then put the turf on top? "

Makes no sense to me. What exactly is the remaining problem with the
area where the lawn is to go? It would also be hepful to know where
the lawn is located, as what to do in Florida can be very different
with what to do in the UK. But for sure trying to lay sod or grow a
lawn on top of a plastic barrier is the wrong thing to do. That's
why you can't find them shown or recommended for that application.
Also, if you're talking about cool season grass and seeding, summer is
the wrong time to be doing it. Wait until Sept.





2. *If you MUST use a weed-stop fabric, make it a permeable one -- BUT -- I
haven't talked to anyone who used a weedstop fabric who, over the long term,
liked the results. *There are two reasons (or more). *(1) Whenever you want
to dig a hole, plant a tree or shrub, etc., the damn fabric is in the way
and you have to get a knife or scissors and cut out your planting area.
It's a pain. and (2) It doesn't do much good. *Although it keeps weeds from
growing up through the fabric, many/most of the weeds start at the surface
or above the level of the fabric and grow DOWN into the subsurface. *If
grass will grow, so will weeds. *Wind / birds / animals / clothing / weather
will bring weed seeds into the yard.

The best way to keep weeds out of your turfgrass is to grow a very good,
tightly knot turf that overpowers any weeds that try to get started. *Weed
stop fabric is a waste of time and money, now and later.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Stubby wrote:
Black plastic film will work. Lanscape fabric is awful because weeds,
including crabgrass, will come up through it.


Andy adds:

I have used both black plastic and landscape fabric, and observed
the
results for many years.
Stubby is correct.

My best results were black plastic with gravel over it for at
least two
inches. This protects the black plastic from sunlight, which will
degrade
it in one or two years. With gravel over it, after 20 years it is
still intact.
Gravel doesn't blow away. And with two inches, you can walk on it
without tearing up the plastic underneath.... I like the small pink
gravel,
but I have also used the large white rock....

Regarding the soil underneath ----- With black plastic, you get
the
same effect as if you put down a concrete slab, or a concrete or
asphalt driveway. The soil underneath remains stable, and does NOT
dry out. In fact, it stays more stable since most of the "drying
out"
would occur from evaporation from the surface, and that is virtually
eliminated. Same thing as happens in roadways and parking lots.
Things are better. The soil moisture difufuses IN from the sides and
causes problems only at the edges, such as the edge of a foundation
of a house...... Underneath is no problem. However, bugs and ants
can live underneath. Also gardening sites warn about fungus. I have
seen bugs -- I haven't seen fungus.

Regarding weeds. All that has been posted here by the other
posters about weeds growing in landscape fabric is true......

Presently, I use black, 4 or 6 mil black plastic to block off the
big areas.
I cover it with gravel. Or mulch, if I don't mind replacing it a
couple times
a year since it washes and blows away.

If I want a bush, I remove the gravel and plastic for, say a two or
three
foot circle. Dig the hole, put in some compost, put in the bush and
then
put landscape fabric to cover the hole. That way I can water the bush
effectively until it recovers, and the rain will have a place to run
in
under the plastic. I have had very little weed growth in these small
areas. Apparently the bush takes the nutrients before the weeds, but
I'm not sure ----- it just isn't much of a problem.

The area is North Texas , where the summers are always in drought
and
the winter and spring is usually pretty wet. The soil is mostly clay,
and the
temps are above 100 in summer and almost never go below 32F at any
time..... That stuff is probly important, tho you can get more
thorough
advice from your local ag extension service....

Andy in Eureka, Texas

On Jul 10, 3:07*pm, AndyS wrote:
Stubby wrote:
Black plastic film will work. * Lanscape fabric is awful because weeds,
including crabgrass, will come up through it.

Andy adds:

* *I have used both black plastic and landscape fabric, and observed
the
results for many years.
* *Stubby is correct.

* * My best results were black plastic with gravel over it for at
least two
inches. *This protects the black plastic from sunlight, which will
degrade
it in one or two years. *With gravel over it, *after 20 years it is
still intact.
Gravel doesn't blow away. *And with two inches, you can walk on it
without tearing up the plastic underneath.... I like the small pink
gravel,
but I have also used the large white rock....

* *Regarding the soil underneath ----- *With black plastic, *you get
the
same effect as if you put down a concrete slab, or a concrete or
asphalt driveway. *The soil underneath remains stable, and does NOT
dry out. *In fact, it stays more stable since most of the "drying
out"
would occur from evaporation from the surface, and that is virtually
eliminated. * Same thing as happens in roadways and parking lots.
Things are better. *The soil moisture difufuses IN from the sides and
causes problems only at the edges, such as the edge of a foundation
of a house...... Underneath is no problem. *However, bugs and ants
can live underneath. *Also gardening sites warn about fungus. *I have
seen bugs -- I haven't seen fungus.

* *Regarding weeds. *All that has been posted here *by the other
posters about weeds growing in landscape fabric is true......

* * Presently, *I use black, 4 or 6 mil black plastic to block off the
big areas.
I cover it with gravel. Or mulch, if I don't mind replacing it a
couple times
a year since it washes and blows away.

If I want a bush, I remove the gravel and plastic for, say a two or
three
foot circle. *Dig the hole, put in some compost, put in the bush and
then
put landscape fabric to cover the hole. *That way I can water the bush
effectively until it recovers, and the rain will have a place to run
in
under the plastic. *I have had very little weed growth in these small
areas. Apparently the bush takes the nutrients before the weeds, but
I'm not sure ----- it just isn't much of a problem.

* *The area is North Texas , where the summers are always in drought
and
the winter and spring is usually pretty wet. *The soil is mostly clay,
and the
temps are above 100 in summer and almost never go below 32F at any
time..... * That stuff is probly important, tho you can get more
thorough
advice from your local ag extension service....

* * * * * * * * * *Andy in Eureka, Texas


And all that has what to do with the question, which was growing turf
on top of a membrane?

My best result was in it in black plastic stone At least two Inches. This prevents sunlight black plastic, which will Demote It is one or two years. Gravel, then it is 20 years later Still intact. Stone does not blow away. With two inches, you can walk on I did not tear up the plastic at the end like the little pink.

IMO the best thing to do is just get a good quality soil and put that down for your borders, if you put down a membrane of any kind it will look good for a while, but weeds can still grow on the surface on the membrane.
im my experience id just stick to soil then hoe through the border once a weeks it will stay virtually weed free and look the bees knees