If no scientific study available, which is better in your experience or
opinion?
Raking all the leaves off the lawn before winter, or leaving the leaves
where they fell, and under a blanket of snow (see sig for location). If
left on the lawn where they fell, would the nutrients be better released
by melting snow, and also provide a smidgen of insulation for the ground?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

On Oct 29, 11:06*am, willshak wrote:
If no scientific study available, which is better in your experience or
opinion?
Raking all the leaves off the lawn before winter, or leaving the leaves
where they fell, and under a blanket of snow (see sig for location). If
left on the lawn where they fell, would the nutrients be better released
by melting snow, and also provide a smidgen of insulation for the ground?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @


If you let the leaves stay on the lawn where they fall, you'll quickly
have dead grass. Leaves fall while the grass is still actively
growing. Covering it up with leaves and keeping it wet will quickly
kill it, just as any other mulch will. With a mulching mower, you can
mulch up light leave coverings to return some organic matter to the
soil.

"willshak" wrote in message
m...
If no scientific study available, which is better in your experience or
opinion?
Raking all the leaves off the lawn before winter, or leaving the leaves
where they fell, and under a blanket of snow (see sig for location). If
left on the lawn where they fell, would the nutrients be better released
by melting snow, and also provide a smidgen of insulation for the ground?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

After you mulch the leaves, aid the decompostion with a wetting agent and
something that aids bacteria in breaking down those leaves. There are a few
"teas" in combination out there in recipes to put in your hose sprayer
bottle.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.

willshak wrote:
If no scientific study available, which is better in your experience or
opinion?
Raking all the leaves off the lawn before winter, or leaving the leaves
where they fell, and under a blanket of snow (see sig for location). If
left on the lawn where they fell, would the nutrients be better released
by melting snow, and also provide a smidgen of insulation for the ground?

I figured you to have more sense than that. Bill.

--
http://NewsReader.Com/

Tell me more about the "TEAS" I always have just mulched up the leaves and
let them lay.


"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
m...
"willshak" wrote in message
m...
If no scientific study available, which is better in your experience or
opinion?
Raking all the leaves off the lawn before winter, or leaving the leaves
where they fell, and under a blanket of snow (see sig for location). If
left on the lawn where they fell, would the nutrients be better released
by melting snow, and also provide a smidgen of insulation for the
ground?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

After you mulch the leaves, aid the decompostion with a wetting agent and
something that aids bacteria in breaking down those leaves. There are a
few
"teas" in combination out there in recipes to put in your hose sprayer
bottle.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.

A typical wetting agent is common dishwashing (manual) liquid detergent.
A typical agent for aiding "good" bacteria that eats lawn refuse like leaves
and grass cuttings is the common beer.
Teas are not an exact science of mixtures and percentages related to water.
They are highly biodegradable, so one person's recipe in terms of amount
related to water may differ much from anothers. So, its difficult to make a
mistake that will genuinely adversely affect the plants and trees.

Not related to the issue at hand:
Typical agent to aid nitrogen level is common household ammonia.
Typical agent for fending off insects is chewing tobacco immersed in a nylon
stocking for 24 hours or more in warm area. The resulting liquid is placed
in the hose sprayer, not the wetted tobbaco itself.

If you don't want to accelerate the process, place leaves and grass cuttings
in a small circular fence area and stack it. Takes about a year, keep it
moist, not wet. When its "cooked" put it where you want. Don't put your
gold at curbside for trash pickup.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.
"Keith Corwell" wrote in message
...
Tell me more about the "TEAS" I always have just mulched up the leaves and
let them lay.


"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
m...
"willshak" wrote in message
m...
If no scientific study available, which is better in your experience or
opinion?
Raking all the leaves off the lawn before winter, or leaving the leaves
where they fell, and under a blanket of snow (see sig for location). If
left on the lawn where they fell, would the nutrients be better
released
by melting snow, and also provide a smidgen of insulation for the
ground?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

After you mulch the leaves, aid the decompostion with a wetting agent and
something that aids bacteria in breaking down those leaves. There are a
few
"teas" in combination out there in recipes to put in your hose sprayer
bottle.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.

wrote:

If you let the leaves stay on the lawn where they fall, you'll
quickly have dead grass. Leaves fall while the grass is still
actively growing.

And depending on what kind of tree, if the leaves have anything nasty on
them (maple black spot, etc) they by not raking and removing, you're
promoting that stuff to return to the tree next spring.

My city has 2 leaf collection periods where bagged leaves are picked up
at the curb. Even if it's 10 or 20 (well-packed) bags.

Lazy people will leave them where they land. Slightly less lazy people
will run over them with a lawn mower. People that want healthy lawn and
trees will bag them and get them the hell outa there.

"Lawn Guy" wrote in message ...
wrote:

If you let the leaves stay on the lawn where they fall, you'll
quickly have dead grass. Leaves fall while the grass is still
actively growing.

And depending on what kind of tree, if the leaves have anything nasty on
them (maple black spot, etc) they by not raking and removing, you're
promoting that stuff to return to the tree next spring.

My city has 2 leaf collection periods where bagged leaves are picked up
at the curb. Even if it's 10 or 20 (well-packed) bags.

Lazy people will leave them where they land. Slightly less lazy people
will run over them with a lawn mower. People that want healthy lawn and
trees will bag them and get them the hell outa there.

The premise (which I think is not valid) is that all people are under the
notion that removing the leaves is the best solution for a healthy and green
lawn and rees. Therefore (based on the premise), for everyone anything less
than that is an exhibition of some degree of laziness toward that solution.

If you had said, in my opinion (state premise). Therefore, in my opinion
(state conclusion). There's no room to disagree, its your opinion.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.

Dioclese wrote:

Lazy people will leave them where they land. Slightly less lazy
people will run over them with a lawn mower. People that want
healthy lawn and trees will bag them and get them the hell outa
there.

The premise (which I think is not valid) is that all people are
under the notion that removing the leaves is the best solution
for a healthy and green lawn and rees.

The corollary to your point would then be that people that do not bag
their leaves are under the solid notion that leaving them on the ground
*is better*. There might be some of those, but I don't think it applies
to the majority of "non-baggers".

I happen to believe that those that don't rake them are lazy and it
probably shows in other ways that they take care of their grounds and
property all year round. Maybe they're physically incapable of raking
and bagging - but in those cases they are presumably paying for yard
maintainence - or they are on the eve of moving out of their home and
into an apartment or managed care facility.

Our city stopped collecting bagged grass during regular weekly garbage
pickup about 10 years ago. Ever since then, if you bag your grass, you
either compost it on your own propery, or you drop it at specified
depots and pay $1 a bag. By osmosis, every land-owner has come to
understand that the correct (or at least the politically-correct) thing
to do with cut grass is to leave it on the lawn.

Our city has been collecting bagged leaves in the fall for as long as I
can remember, and they still do. By osmosis, every residential
land-owner is aware that raking and bagging leaves is the "natural"
thing to do and is supported by a service provided by the city. The
big-box stores now have over-sized leaf rakes and leaf bags (paper and
clear plastic) visible front and center when you enter, further
reinforcing the concept that raking and bagging leaves is normal or
natural, if not a beneficial part of turf and property management.

Therefore (based on the premise), for everyone anything less
than that is an exhibition of some degree of laziness toward
that solution.

Yes, because as I've described, there are public "cues" that point to
leaf raking and bagging as something that's a normal, if not expected
part of property management.

As well, leaves that accumulate in the gutters and curbs of residential
streets are a public nuisance that impedes the dissapation of rain and
snow melt until the city cleans them in the spring. Those that rake
their leaves onto the road or allow their leaves to collect are
negligent and lazy in that regard.

If you had said, in my opinion (state premise). Therefore, in my
opinion (state conclusion). There's no room to disagree, its your
opinion.

It's my opinion that (most, many, or all) people would like to have an
extra $10 in their pocket right now. Is that an opinion, or fact? Can
an opinion never be shown to also be a fact?

"Lawn Guy" wrote in message ...
wrote:

Lazy people will leave them where they land. Slightly less lazy people
will run over them with a lawn mower. People that want healthy lawn and
trees will bag them and get them the hell outa there.

Guess it depends on how many you have and how much land. I have about 1.5
acres of lawn next to some woods I also own. No way am I going to rake all
those things several times a year. I tried bagging them, but the bagger
filled up after each round of the lawn. Now I just mow over them. Even the
normal grass cutting has about 10 to 15 or more times to empty the bags. I
usually do that the first time or two of the year to try and get some of the
weed seed heads. Not sure if this works or not.

On Nov 2, 1:11*pm, Lawn Guy wrote:
Dioclese wrote:
Lazy people will leave them where they land. *Slightly less lazy
people will run over them with a lawn mower. *People that want
healthy lawn and trees will bag them and get them the hell outa
there.

The premise (which I think is not valid) is that all people are
under the notion that removing the leaves is the best solution
for a healthy and green lawn and rees. *

The corollary to your point would then be that people that do not bag
their leaves are under the solid notion that leaving them on the ground
*is better*. *There might be some of those, but I don't think it applies
to the majority of "non-baggers". *

It applies to me, because it is better. I'm a non-bagger. Just
the fact that you use the term "non-bagger" suggests you live
somewhere in an urban area with a lot of houses, parking lots and not
many trees. Because in most rural places with folks with lots of
trees and experience, bagging doesn't exist. If I had to bag, I'd be
down at the muncipal offices, bitching big time. Here anyone who
wants to have their leaves taken away, simply blows or rakes them into
the street. The township comes by every couple of weeks from Nov
thru Dec and vacuums them up. I pitty the guys wasting natural
resources, money and a lot of time stuffing leaves into bags. If I
did that, I'd have a hundred bags.




I happen to believe that those that don't rake them are lazy and it
probably shows in other ways that they take care of their grounds and
property all year round. *Maybe they're physically incapable of raking
and bagging - but in those cases they are presumably paying for yard
maintainence - or they are on the eve of moving out of their home and
into an apartment or managed care facility.


Wow, what a sweeping and inaccurate generalization. When the leaves
start to fall, I use a mulching mower to grind them up for as long as
possible. I probably get rid of 40% of them that way. When they
fall at a very heavy rate and/or accumulate in certain areas so that
mulching would smother the grass, I blow them either into the woods
(see no bagging there either) or out to the street.



Our city stopped collecting bagged grass during regular weekly garbage
pickup about 10 years ago. *Ever since then, if you bag your grass, you
either compost it on your own propery, or you drop it at specified
depots and pay $1 a bag. *By osmosis, every land-owner has come to
understand that the correct (or at least the politically-correct) thing
to do with cut grass is to leave it on the lawn.

If you did a little research, you'd find that there is widespread
agreement that mulching the clippings and leaving them is beneficial
to the lawn. The clippings decay and provide nutrients.
Actually, the folks who insist on bagging tend to be guys like you,
who are only concerned about having the lawn look so picture perfect
that an almost unnoticeable amount of mulched clippings can't be
tolerated.




Our city has been collecting bagged leaves in the fall for as long as I
can remember, and they still do. *By osmosis, every residential
land-owner is aware that raking and bagging leaves is the "natural"
thing to do and is supported by a service provided by the city. *The
big-box stores now have over-sized leaf rakes and leaf bags (paper and
clear plastic) visible front and center when you enter, further
reinforcing the concept that raking and bagging leaves is normal or
natural, if not a beneficial part of turf and property management.

Beneficial to the companies harvesting trees to make those bags,
companies making the bags, trucks hauling the trees and bags, big box
stores, the extra hours worked by landscapers, and municipal
employees. Factor in the gas/fuel wasted producing bags, hauling the
trees to make bags, hauling the leaves around, and I'd say there isn't
anything natural or good for the environment in the whole process.



Therefore (based on the premise), for everyone anything less
than that is an exhibition of some degree of laziness toward
that solution.

Yes, because as I've described, there are public "cues" that point to
leaf raking and bagging as something that's a normal, if not expected
part of property management.


And I'd say that anyone that just buys into the notion that because
bagging is the way it's always been done, therefore it's normal and
natural is engaging in monkey see, monkey do.



As well, leaves that accumulate in the gutters and curbs of residential
streets are a public nuisance that impedes the dissapation of rain and
snow melt until the city cleans them in the spring. *Those that rake
their leaves onto the road or allow their leaves to collect are
negligent and lazy in that regard.

Hmmm, what about on all the streets and roads in a municipality where
there are just trees and no homes? Like in the country? You don't
have any experience there, do you?

In conclusion, I'd like to see some credible reference that agrees
with your premise that mulching lawn grass clippings or mulching a
reasonable amount of leaves in-situ with a mower, is incompatible with
a healthy lawn. Quite the contrary, I've seen plenty of authorities
that say returning either grass clippings or other organic matter in
reasonable amounts is beneficial to the lawn. Also, if you have
something that supports your claim that leaf removal is necessary to
protect the health of trees in the yard, I'd like to see that too.

On Nov 1, 9:11*am, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
A typical wetting agent is common dishwashing (manual) liquid detergent.
A typical agent for aiding "good" bacteria that eats lawn refuse like leaves
and grass cuttings is the common beer.

I'd like to see any credible authority that has done any actual
testing or at least offers a scientific explanation for the idea that
spreading beer around a lawn is going to aid good bacteria or make any
difference in the lawn. What exactly in beer is going to promote
this miracle effect? I'm betting this is another urban legend,
often repeated, but without basis. I'd love to see this tested on
Mythbusters.

The typical nonsense says to mix up a gallon or two of this stuff
using a couple beers, then says to spray it on the lawn. Hmmm, they
usually fail to mention anything about the application rate, which
immediately brings their knowledge base into serious question.







Teas are not an exact science of mixtures and percentages related to water.

"Lawn Guy" wrote in message ...

It's my opinion that (most, many, or all) people would like to have an
extra $10 in their pocket right now. Is that an opinion, or fact? Can
an opinion never be shown to also be a fact?

In my opinion, depends on the cost of getting that $10.00. Its been my
experience, thus my opinion, that nothing in life is really ever free.
Since I was raised a genuine Christian, independent, try to not to live in
denial, and a thinking person as well, I know that $10.00 will cost someone.
I know if I was on the paying end of the $10.00, I would not like it. So,
treating others how I would like to be treated, I doubt that it would ever
be acceptable to me, in my opinion.

Facts, in the final analysis, are actually accepted opinions from those with
vast knowledge and research of a given "fact", in my opinion of course. So,
your question regarding an opinion ever be shown to also be a fact amounts
to an opinion being someone else's opinion, in my opinion of course.

A majority poll of a given populace of one's opinion on a specific matter
does not make that empirical evidence. Especially if that poll is assumed
by a closed and unconsciously discriminant observations of others (in my
opinion, a protected environment to protect one's viewpoint). Example:
"Everybody does it". Therefore, the basis is invalid based on the method at
arriving at the premise. All of the previous is my opinon of course.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.

wrote in message
...

It applies to me, because it is better. I'm a non-bagger. Just
the fact that you use the term "non-bagger" suggests you live
somewhere in an urban area with a lot of houses, parking lots and not
many trees. Because in most rural places with folks with lots of
trees and experience, bagging doesn't exist. If I had to bag, I'd be
down at the muncipal offices, bitching big time. Here anyone who
wants to have their leaves taken away, simply blows or rakes them into
the street. The township comes by every couple of weeks from Nov
thru Dec and vacuums them up. I pitty the guys wasting natural
resources, money and a lot of time stuffing leaves into bags. If I
did that, I'd have a hundred bags.

---------------

Even sadder is a person running for county commissioner here that wants to
implement building permits and inspections county-wide. Among other
implications, it means I need a permit and inspection for any outbuilding I
want on my own place. As far as homebuilders, the commonly accepted house
plan passes IRC specifications here. Bear in mind, all of the previous is
my opinion based on information provided to me.

The leaf rakers/baggers in the county will probably all vote for that guy.
The "herd" instinct is very strong in such individuals lacking individual
thought outside of their own realm of self-limited perception. That's what
I believe anyway.

I live 5 miles from the closest town. The 5 and 10 acre plots here may
accomodate a home. There is a homeowners association. Their seemingly only
focus is unacceptance of raising hogs due to its odor travel. Other
livestock is okay. There's talk of repealing even that restriction to
dissuade some unsavory non-rural types from moving out here.

Understand that most folks in rural areas don't have storm drains in their
streets. There's adequate drainage area that is unoccupied by homes or
streets. The urban and suburban folks, if there's adequate leaf ground
coverage, may, but not always, suffer from storm drain problems if that
fallen leaf population is not addressed. Some prefer to push their method
of addressing this fallen leaf population on others. Regardless, the actual
drainage problem, rather, an excuse to make their little world as they
perceive it should be. AKA leaf rakers/baggers...
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.

Never indicated in any shape, fashion or form that I subscribe to making of
"teas" for application to the lawn. Just that its there to try. A
respondent wanted more information, I said want I knew off the top of my
head. Then, you jump in and make all these negatives, of which you want
demanding evidence of their actual workability. See my first sentence
here...

I did rent a 2 DVDs from netflix regarding gardening. Its whole and
entirety was about such "teas". Did not know that from title of the DVD
prior to renting same. I did watch both in boredom. I don't remember the
amounts for dilution. I do remember this self proclaimed "master gardener"
stating amounts of said product, then in the video showing said "master
gardener" measuring the product in an obviously another amount of said
product. Sometimes, twice as much as orally stated.

I Googled for "lawn", "beer", and "tea" in same search. Try it.

Here is the "master gardener" noted above:
http://www.dptvmedia.org/home.php?cat=50

In fairness, here's an opposing opinon about the beer thing:
http://www.homeabc.net/Garden-Landsc...Landscape.html

Seems to me it would be more prudent economically to incorporate some yeast
prediluted in warm water via hose sprayer, than beer. That is, if their
premise of the yeast in the beer aiding leaf eating bacteria is real.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.
wrote in message
...
On Nov 1, 9:11 am, "Dioclese" NONE wrote:
A typical wetting agent is common dishwashing (manual) liquid detergent.
A typical agent for aiding "good" bacteria that eats lawn refuse like
leaves
and grass cuttings is the common beer.

I'd like to see any credible authority that has done any actual
testing or at least offers a scientific explanation for the idea that
spreading beer around a lawn is going to aid good bacteria or make any
difference in the lawn. What exactly in beer is going to promote
this miracle effect? I'm betting this is another urban legend,
often repeated, but without basis. I'd love to see this tested on
Mythbusters.

The typical nonsense says to mix up a gallon or two of this stuff
using a couple beers, then says to spray it on the lawn. Hmmm, they
usually fail to mention anything about the application rate, which
immediately brings their knowledge base into serious question.







Teas are not an exact science of mixtures and percentages related to
water.

Why am I not surprised?

They are highly biodegradable, so one person's recipe in terms of amount
related to water may differ much from anothers. So, its difficult to make
a
mistake that will genuinely adversely affect the plants and trees.

Lawn cuttings are also highly biodegradable by themselves.




Not related to the issue at hand:
Typical agent to aid nitrogen level is common household ammonia.
Typical agent for fending off insects is chewing tobacco immersed in a
nylon
stocking for 24 hours or more in warm area. The resulting liquid is placed
in the hose sprayer, not the wetted tobbaco itself.

If you don't want to accelerate the process, place leaves and grass
cuttings
in a small circular fence area and stack it. Takes about a year, keep it
moist, not wet. When its "cooked" put it where you want. Don't put your
gold at curbside for trash pickup.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe."Keith Corwell" wrote in message

...



Tell me more about the "TEAS" I always have just mulched up the leaves
and
let them lay.

"Dioclese" NONE wrote in message
om...
"willshak" wrote in message
news:UradncEQJreU4ZXUnZ2dnUVZ_vSdnZ2d@supernews. com...
If no scientific study available, which is better in your experience
or
opinion?
Raking all the leaves off the lawn before winter, or leaving the
leaves
where they fell, and under a blanket of snow (see sig for location).
If
left on the lawn where they fell, would the nutrients be better
released
by melting snow, and also provide a smidgen of insulation for the
ground?

--

Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
In the original Orange County. Est. 1683
To email, remove the double zeroes after @

After you mulch the leaves, aid the decompostion with a wetting agent
and
something that aids bacteria in breaking down those leaves. There are a
few
"teas" in combination out there in recipes to put in your hose sprayer
bottle.
--
Dave

If it looks like fish, smells like fish, its not
a cantaloupe.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -