There are a lot of good techs at sears and a lot of bad one but the problem
is much bigger then Sears and not only at that one place it is with any
place you go.

On 2/26/03 22:30, in article , "Judy
and Dave G" wrote:2/26/03 22:30

Hi all.

I really don't like it when anyone jumps in a thread and runs off at the
mouth without giving background for their opinion. So here I go, over-doing
it again. If you don't want to know the history, just jump on down to my
opinion at the end. Less time, but not as much fun.

I have owned Craftsman mowers for 30 years now. No, really, 25 years. The
first 5 years were non-powered push mowers because that was all we could
afford for our little bit of grass. They all worked well, I could never
take a week off because they were broken. I just couldn't make those little
suckers break.

Then I met Craftsman. My husband is a Craftsman toolman. And has been for
40 years. So, of course, my first powered mower must also be a Craftsman.

As everyone here who takes pride in their lawn knows, it may be a woman or a
man, but usually one in the family does most of the mowing, and, therefore,
usually decides on the mower. So, this one checking in, is a female, if
that matters.

Anyway, when this thread started, and similar in another group, I thought I
was a staunch supporter of Craftsman.
And I have prepared a number of cutesy replies. Then I started to think
about it. The first Craftsman that I owned was a used one. Push mower. No
self propulsion, none needed, I was young. And it ran forever, and ever,
and ever. Then our lives changed a bit and we moved, up and out, so now we
had almost an acre, with a whole lot of ups and downs. In a neighborhood
that demanded weed control. And, being a bit older, I needed propulsion,
no, I needed a rider. So, back to Craftsman. (Somewhere in here I have to
comment on my absolute, undying fear of heights. One rung on a ladder is my
limit and only if I have someplace to hold on. I can only climb on a chair
that has a back to hold on to. OK, that said, I could not get on a riding
mower that made me feel like I was too high up in the air.) Craftsman brand
riders are pretty low, not sports car low, but lower than those 'other
brands'. So I got me a rider, Craftsman, 12 hp, 1985. I loved it, I used
it when the grass needed cut and I used it when I needed a breather. (I
ALWAYS buy a maintenance contract on any large purchase, Craftsman or
otherwise.) When I called to have my first end of the season maintenance,
the gentleman who did the work, well, he was surprised, said my mower had a
smaller engine that it was supposed to have. Hmmm. Oh well, it still was
running very well. And it continued to run, and I renewed the maintenance
each and every year. I did everything that I was supposed to. Then we
moved to the country. My hills were steeper and my drop offs were more
sudden and my acreage increased to 60. I realized the difference between
the fun ups and downs in a lawn and the drop off edges of gulleys and
streams. And the difference between KNOWING that my mower was not gonna
stop as I was mowing one of those hillsides that the mower manual said I
should never do. OK, the mower was 6 years old and the maintenance was more
than a new one. So I used a local handyman. The first time I took it in, I
paid over $600 because I told him to tear it down and rebuild it with new
parts. I needed to get 3 more years out of it. Sure no problem. Til I
tried to turn it on. Click. Took it back. Paid $150 more. Tried to turn
it on. Click. Then I was angry. They came and picked it up and repaired
it again, for nothing. (At least for those that cannot add.) Well, ****,
give in and get a new one. Bite the bullet. Husband said he would be more
comfortable if I had a larger engine on these hills. OK, back to Craftsman.
I got the 18 hp. that had shift on the go. Now, I explained to the salesman
about my hills and my need to increase my mowed area each year by a couple
acres. And he sold me his recommendation.

I burned up the transmission on that 18hp tank. It took me less than a
month. Call for service. Sure. No problem. As long as you can stop your
grass from growing for 3 more weeks. Maintenance guy said you should never
have bought this kind, lady. Well, duh, I was just following the
recommendation of their salesman. He said he was gonna recommend that Sears
give me a new rider, but without the automatic shift. No problem. Got my
new one 3 weeks later. Ran wonderful. For about a month. Shit. First the
brakes. Then the transmission. Then something kept starting on fire under
the front hood (where the motor is). Then the transmission again. Then it
just goes click. Then you have to jump around on the seat to get it to
start. Then the steering and front tires don't want to turn. Which of
course had to happen on the edge of a gulley. And the brake was on the
downhill side of the mower which was I was riding on the uphill fender, so I
couldn't use the brake. So I jumped off. They told me they had replaced
the whole drive, brakes, axles, tranny, the LAST time. Well, supposedly
they replaced it again. If I had not bought the maintenance contract, I
would have been even angrier.

So, I absolutely followed the recommended maintenance. And added in at
least 6 more visits per year. And that sucker isn't gonna make it to next
year. And I will never purchase another Craftsman mower as long as I live.
No matter what. Even if I have to get some goats. Never. And I feel
really guilty saying it. Like I need to go to confession. But, I need to
feel safe. I need an engine that I maintain better than recommended, to
start. For more than 2 weeks at a time.

I am thankful for these threads. Having to sit here and put it in writing.
Wow, talk about perspective.

My advice would be to NOT purchase a Craftsman. The quality that we grew to
expect in the 60s and 70s and 80s is no longer there. The mentality of the
craftsmen who maintained our machines has also gone the way of the auto
mechanic that could fix your car by the sound.

I saw that Sam's Club has a Honda 5 hp self propelled (can't remember the
cut width) for $289.00. I would bet that that Honda will probably last
longer than the "new, improved, Craftsman" mower, regardless of its standing
on the price scale.

But this is just my opinion. HTH.

Judy


I hope that you have better luck with other brands that hold up MUCH
better...

Anyone say Deere, Cub Cadet, etc....

You get what you pay for....

I have a Crapsman self propeled with front wheel drive. Too bad the drive
crapped out right after the warrantee did. Now the real meaning of
self-propeled comes thru. I PUSH IT mySELF!

Tim Fischer wrote in message
.net...
You'll probably ignore my advice grin but PLEASE stay away from
Crapsman.
Do a newsgroup search on Craftsman Mowers and see what you come up with
for
advice.

I had a self-propelled Crapsman walk-behind that lasted 2 1/2 seasons
before
the transmission failed. Cost new: $350. Cost for PARTS (not labor) to
fix: $299. I junked it and bought a Honda Harmony, for $650. Money VERY
well spent. I also now have a John Deere lawn tractor since we moved to a
bigger property.

So, if you like replacing your mower every 2-4 years, by all means by the
Sears. If you want something that will last, spend a little more and get
a
Honda, John Deere, or Toro. It will last you a dozen years or more.

-Tim

Steven Kolak wrote in message
om...
Tim,

Thanks for the advice. In my opinion, too, the John Deere, Honda, and
Toro are exceptional brands and better than Craftsman, but you pay for
that in $$$, too, as you said. My one friend is going on year 15 with
his Toro.

I actually have had 5+ years good luck so far with a Craftsman 6hp
self-propelled at my mother's house, and another friend has gotten
many years out of his as well. Once in a while they require a few
strong pulls to start, but I am willing to throw the dice, per say.

You are right, I probably won't follow your advice grin!!, but
thanks for spending time giving it to me. If the mower fails in 1-10
years, I will know who told me so!

Steve


"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
t.net...
You'll probably ignore my advice grin but PLEASE stay away from
Crapsman.
Do a newsgroup search on Craftsman Mowers and see what you come up with
for
advice.

I had a self-propelled Crapsman walk-behind that lasted 2 1/2 seasons
before
the transmission failed. Cost new: $350. Cost for PARTS (not labor)
to
fix: $299. I junked it and bought a Honda Harmony, for $650. Money
VERY
well spent. I also now have a John Deere lawn tractor since we moved to
a
bigger property.

So, if you like replacing your mower every 2-4 years, by all means by
the
Sears. If you want something that will last, spend a little more and
get a
Honda, John Deere, or Toro. It will last you a dozen years or more.

-Tim




My 21 year old Simplicity still chugs away with a big one lung Kohler 14
horse. It may outlive me! Never replaced anything other than belts and oil.
Good luck with Craftsman.

"Steve" wrote in message
news:k%38a.277251$iG3.31426@sccrnsc02...
I have a Crapsman self propeled with front wheel drive. Too bad the
drive
crapped out right after the warrantee did. Now the real meaning of
self-propeled comes thru. I PUSH IT mySELF!

This seems to be the weak link in Crapsman's crap -- the self-propel
transmission. The engines are generally OK as they're Briggs or Tecsumeh
and typically will run for a long time with proper maintenance.

I think when people look back on their old 1960's Crapsman push mower that
ran for 20 years, they forget that it was basically an engine with a
spinning blade and steel shell. The new ones have a lot more to go wrong --
transmissions, safety cutoffs, etc. etc.

I should have mentioned -- I told the story of my Crapsman that had the
tranny go out before the end of its third season. I forgot to mention that
the speed-control assembly failed just out of warranty (one year) which put
me back about $50 (part only) as well. Basically a cable broke, but the way
it's manufactured, I had to replace the whole speed control lever and all.

We had a Deere lawn tractor growing up and I don't think it ever had any
parts added except belts, a battery, etc. It was bought in about 1982, and
it finally left the family last year when my brother sold his home and moved
to a house with a tiny yard. The mower wasn't that well cared for -- it was
missing several safety guards, mice had eaten the stuffing out of the seat,
etc, but it still ran fine, and he sold it within days for $1500. Kind of
scary when you can buy a brand new MTD for $900 at Wal-mart...

-Tim

Wow! I can't believe I started such an indepth discussion/war on
Craftsman.

Anyway, I thought I would update you that I bought the model 37836
model THEN returned it the same day! The height adjuster on the rear
right wheel was loose, and it wouldn't stay in the setting. From my
understanding, this is a new model for this year. It also seemed to
be somewhat of a cheap feel compared to the other Craftman models.
For example, the plastic controls and plastic guarding around the
engine looked/felt like it was of cheaper than normal Craftsman
material. Also, the bag had to be put together a bit and interfaced
with a plastic piece that interfaced with the lawnmower. I just
wasn't that impressed. Maybe it is Craftsman's way to get more people
to buy $259. self propelled lawnmowers. Maybe it was just me!

I am still lawnmower-less. I am sure another Craftsman will come on
sale in Massachusetts before lawnmowing season, and I will look at
other brands as well.

Steve


"Tim Fischer" wrote in message t.net...
"Steve" wrote in message
news:k%38a.277251$iG3.31426@sccrnsc02...
I have a Crapsman self propeled with front wheel drive. Too bad the
drive
crapped out right after the warrantee did. Now the real meaning of
self-propeled comes thru. I PUSH IT mySELF!

This seems to be the weak link in Crapsman's crap -- the self-propel
transmission. The engines are generally OK as they're Briggs or Tecsumeh
and typically will run for a long time with proper maintenance.

I think when people look back on their old 1960's Crapsman push mower that
ran for 20 years, they forget that it was basically an engine with a
spinning blade and steel shell. The new ones have a lot more to go wrong --
transmissions, safety cutoffs, etc. etc.

I should have mentioned -- I told the story of my Crapsman that had the
tranny go out before the end of its third season. I forgot to mention that
the speed-control assembly failed just out of warranty (one year) which put
me back about $50 (part only) as well. Basically a cable broke, but the way
it's manufactured, I had to replace the whole speed control lever and all.

We had a Deere lawn tractor growing up and I don't think it ever had any
parts added except belts, a battery, etc. It was bought in about 1982, and
it finally left the family last year when my brother sold his home and moved
to a house with a tiny yard. The mower wasn't that well cared for -- it was
missing several safety guards, mice had eaten the stuffing out of the seat,
etc, but it still ran fine, and he sold it within days for $1500. Kind of
scary when you can buy a brand new MTD for $900 at Wal-mart...

-Tim

"Steven Kolak" wrote in message
om...
It also seemed to
be somewhat of a cheap feel compared to the other Craftman models.

That might be the scariest thing I've heard all day.

looked/felt like it was of cheaper than normal Craftsman
material.

ditto.

I am still lawnmower-less. I am sure another Craftsman will come on
sale in Massachusetts before lawnmowing season, and I will look at
other brands as well.

Check out the Deere's at Home Depot. These low-end Deere's are pretty
cheaply built, too (unlike the higher-end Deeres), but if you insist on
buying the low-end tractors, they'll be better than the Crapsman/MTD/Murray
junk...

-Tim

On 3/3/03 18:14, in article
, "Tim Fischer"
wrote:3/3/03 18:14

"Steven Kolak" wrote in message
om...
It also seemed to
be somewhat of a cheap feel compared to the other Craftman models.

That might be the scariest thing I've heard all day.

looked/felt like it was of cheaper than normal Craftsman
material.

ditto.

I am still lawnmower-less. I am sure another Craftsman will come on
sale in Massachusetts before lawnmowing season, and I will look at
other brands as well.

Check out the Deere's at Home Depot. These low-end Deere's are pretty
cheaply built, too (unlike the higher-end Deeres), but if you insist on
buying the low-end tractors, they'll be better than the Crapsman/MTD/Murray
junk...

-Tim


Yes, I agree, but like Tim said, they are still low end tractors. Do NOT
kid yourself into thinking that you have purchased a piece of machinery that
should last for years even with proper maintenance.

One thing to consider, should you decide to purchase something that will
last: Can you service the transaxle? In other words, can you change the
fluid without tearing down the unit? Does it have a transmission filter?

There may be several brands that offer these, but I personally know of only
one.

If it doesn't have these, I suppose the 'servicing' takes place during the
overhaul or replacement.

If anyone is serious about these, you should check out the high end Cub
Cadet units. I personally have a 3235 model that is perfect for me. A
mower that I should have purchased years ago to avoid many seasons of
Craftsman 'quality' of design and manufacture.

Should you have a yard bigger than a postage stamp and/or tow a yard roller,
you cannot get by for long without a quality machine.

My 2 cents...

Ron

Sears Craftsman line of mowers are made by MTD, but that is
not likely the whole story if you think about what they have
done with refrigerators. Yup, refrigerators. I had always
figured there was no better brand to buy than Sears and when
I was younger, never saw one go bad.

However, the regrig. I bought from them was C*H*E*A*P
J*U*N*K! Come to find out they negotiate special contracts
with the manufacturers for thinner metal, inferior
insulation and parts. Perhaps they do this with MTD as
well.

Steven Kolak wrote:

Wow! I can't believe I started such an indepth discussion/war on
Craftsman.

Anyway, I thought I would update you that I bought the model 37836
model THEN returned it the same day! The height adjuster on the rear
right wheel was loose, and it wouldn't stay in the setting. From my
understanding, this is a new model for this year. It also seemed to
be somewhat of a cheap feel compared to the other Craftman models.
For example, the plastic controls and plastic guarding around the
engine looked/felt like it was of cheaper than normal Craftsman
material. Also, the bag had to be put together a bit and interfaced
with a plastic piece that interfaced with the lawnmower. I just
wasn't that impressed. Maybe it is Craftsman's way to get more people
to buy $259. self propelled lawnmowers. Maybe it was just me!

I am still lawnmower-less. I am sure another Craftsman will come on
sale in Massachusetts before lawnmowing season, and I will look at
other brands as well.

Steve

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message t.net...
"Steve" wrote in message
news:k%38a.277251$iG3.31426@sccrnsc02...
I have a Crapsman self propeled with front wheel drive. Too bad the
drive
crapped out right after the warrantee did. Now the real meaning of
self-propeled comes thru. I PUSH IT mySELF!

This seems to be the weak link in Crapsman's crap -- the self-propel
transmission. The engines are generally OK as they're Briggs or Tecsumeh
and typically will run for a long time with proper maintenance.

I think when people look back on their old 1960's Crapsman push mower that
ran for 20 years, they forget that it was basically an engine with a
spinning blade and steel shell. The new ones have a lot more to go wrong --
transmissions, safety cutoffs, etc. etc.

I should have mentioned -- I told the story of my Crapsman that had the
tranny go out before the end of its third season. I forgot to mention that
the speed-control assembly failed just out of warranty (one year) which put
me back about $50 (part only) as well. Basically a cable broke, but the way
it's manufactured, I had to replace the whole speed control lever and all.

We had a Deere lawn tractor growing up and I don't think it ever had any
parts added except belts, a battery, etc. It was bought in about 1982, and
it finally left the family last year when my brother sold his home and moved
to a house with a tiny yard. The mower wasn't that well cared for -- it was
missing several safety guards, mice had eaten the stuffing out of the seat,
etc, but it still ran fine, and he sold it within days for $1500. Kind of
scary when you can buy a brand new MTD for $900 at Wal-mart...

-Tim

"Stephen Kurzban" wrote in message
...

Sears Craftsman line of mowers are made by MTD, but that is
not likely the whole story if you think about what they have
done with refrigerators. Yup, refrigerators. I had always
figured there was no better brand to buy than Sears and when
I was younger, never saw one go bad.

However, the regrig. I bought from them was C*H*E*A*P
J*U*N*K! Come to find out they negotiate special contracts
with the manufacturers for thinner metal, inferior
insulation and parts. Perhaps they do this with MTD as
well.

Steven Kolak wrote:

Wow! I can't believe I started such an indepth discussion/war on
Craftsman.

Anyway, I thought I would update you that I bought the model 37836
model THEN returned it the same day! The height adjuster on the rear
right wheel was loose, and it wouldn't stay in the setting. From my
understanding, this is a new model for this year. It also seemed to
be somewhat of a cheap feel compared to the other Craftman models.
For example, the plastic controls and plastic guarding around the
engine looked/felt like it was of cheaper than normal Craftsman
material. Also, the bag had to be put together a bit and interfaced
with a plastic piece that interfaced with the lawnmower. I just
wasn't that impressed. Maybe it is Craftsman's way to get more people
to buy $259. self propelled lawnmowers. Maybe it was just me!

I am still lawnmower-less. I am sure another Craftsman will come on
sale in Massachusetts before lawnmowing season, and I will look at
other brands as well.

Steve

"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
t.net...
"Steve" wrote in message
news:k%38a.277251$iG3.31426@sccrnsc02...
I have a Crapsman self propeled with front wheel drive. Too bad
the
drive
crapped out right after the warrantee did. Now the real meaning of
self-propeled comes thru. I PUSH IT mySELF!

This seems to be the weak link in Crapsman's crap -- the self-propel
transmission. The engines are generally OK as they're Briggs or
Tecsumeh
and typically will run for a long time with proper maintenance.

I think when people look back on their old 1960's Crapsman push mower
that
ran for 20 years, they forget that it was basically an engine with a
spinning blade and steel shell. The new ones have a lot more to go
wrong --
transmissions, safety cutoffs, etc. etc.

I should have mentioned -- I told the story of my Crapsman that had
the
tranny go out before the end of its third season. I forgot to mention
that
the speed-control assembly failed just out of warranty (one year)
which put
me back about $50 (part only) as well. Basically a cable broke, but
the way
it's manufactured, I had to replace the whole speed control lever and
all.

We had a Deere lawn tractor growing up and I don't think it ever had
any
parts added except belts, a battery, etc. It was bought in about
1982, and
it finally left the family last year when my brother sold his home and
moved
to a house with a tiny yard. The mower wasn't that well cared for --
it was
missing several safety guards, mice had eaten the stuffing out of the
seat,
etc, but it still ran fine, and he sold it within days for $1500.
Kind of
scary when you can buy a brand new MTD for $900 at Wal-mart...

-Tim

Craftsman mowers are good if you expect only one year of use. Personally, I
don't feel a $350.00 lawnmower ought to be considered disposable, but I
believe Craftsman does.

Brigitte

Actually, kitchen appliances is one of the few things I'll actually buy from
Sears. I made the mistake of buying a lawn mower there 7 years ago. It
made it 2 1/2 seasons with a couple semi-major repairs before the
transmission "totalled" itself (it was a self-propelled walk behind).

-Tim

I purchased a Toro commercial mower 22 years ago it is still running bur had
to replace the wheels last year paid around 600.00 at the time but glad I
did ad I see my neighbors buying every two years.

Some dealers won't sell you a commercial that's because they are in the
mower business, fine a dealer in the money business and he will sell you
one.

--
E.Perry



"Tim Fischer" wrote in message
newsgMma.218969$Zo.41317@sccrnsc03...
Actually, kitchen appliances is one of the few things I'll actually buy from
Sears. I made the mistake of buying a lawn mower there 7 years ago. It
made it 2 1/2 seasons with a couple semi-major repairs before the
transmission "totalled" itself (it was a self-propelled walk behind).

-Tim




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.471 / Virus Database: 269 - Release Date: 4/10/2003

Tim Fischer wrote in message
newsgMma.218969$Zo.41317@sccrnsc03...
Actually, kitchen appliances is one of the few things I'll actually buy
from
Sears. I made the mistake of buying a lawn mower there 7 years ago. It
made it 2 1/2 seasons with a couple semi-major repairs before the
transmission "totalled" itself (it was a self-propelled walk behind).

-Tim



I also bought a Sears self propelled walk behind mower 3 years ago. The
words SELF propelled seem to fit it well. The transmission crapped out so
now I push it mySELF! I am a truck driver and I used to load garden
tractors from a company in South Carolina. AMERICAN GARDEN PRODUCTS. This
company makes Wizard, Husquvarna and a few other brands. I think it's all
junk.

"Steve" wrote:
Tim Fischer wrote in message
newsgMma.218969$Zo.41317@sccrnsc03...
Actually, kitchen appliances is one of the few things I'll actually buy
from
Sears. I made the mistake of buying a lawn mower there 7 years ago.
It made it 2 1/2 seasons with a couple semi-major repairs before the
transmission "totalled" itself (it was a self-propelled walk behind).

-Tim



I also bought a Sears self propelled walk behind mower 3 years ago. The
words SELF propelled seem to fit it well. The transmission crapped out so
now I push it mySELF! I am a truck driver and I used to load garden
tractors from a company in South Carolina. AMERICAN GARDEN PRODUCTS.
This company makes Wizard, Husquvarna and a few other brands. I think
it's all junk.

It sucks when you have to get out of the truck too. (teamsters) g

--
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