On Jul 29, 9:25*am, Sum Guy wrote:
JimT wrote:
Decks and other exposed wood which has been cut and milled
into lumber is no longer alive...

Wood on a tree is still alive and growing...

As has already been mentioned, the wood inside a tree under the bark is
actually dead wood. *The only difference between it and the lumber you
buy at Lowes is that the wood in the tree hasn't been milled.

It is best to leave tree wounds alone and allow them to heal
naturally... *Exceptions to this logic are rare...

If the exposed surface is large enough, the wood can rot and/or be
attacked by insects before the tree has a chance to grow bark to cover
it.

I think that different climates can be more problematic than others. *In
the north-east and great-lakes area, you have a shorter growing season
(takes more time to cover exposed cuts with bark) and lots of humidity
and freeze-thaw action in the winter, both of which is hard on untreated
exposed wood.

The non-cambium layers of a tree's wood is dead, but not dead in the
way animals die. Wood is pretty stupid, pardon my French - it doesn't
_know_ it's dead. So it keeps on trying to fulfill its function which
is to transport water. It will do this whether or not it is still in
tree form or built into a deck or whatever.

Any coating put on a tree that is intended to protect it from water
will interfere with the tree's eons-long evolution of its healing
process.

It is important how, when and where to prune limbs. Improper pruning
will not allow the tree to heal.
http://www.gardenguides.com/69432-pr...ver-maple.html
"Prune maples during their dormant period when you can see their shape
and branches. Pruning in late fall or early winter removes wood when
pests and diseases are not likely to thrive on the green wood."
"Avoid making "flush" cuts that destroy the bark collar or "stub" cuts
that leave exposed wood beyond the collar that may be susceptible to
disease."

Murphy's Law predicts that the most 'important' trees will suffer the
most egregious fates. If you need a tree for privacy, don't expect it
to be around forever.

A general overview of the Silver Maple:
http://hort.ufl.edu/trees/ACESACA.pdf
It's not a forever tree, it has 'issues'.

R

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:01:20 -0400, "Marty B." wrote:
-snip-
Silver maple is a garbage tree. The wood is soft because they grow so
fast. Surely you've noticed how they break during wind, and how fast those
things grow. Why you would want to save the thing is beyond comprehension.

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. It also
shades the back of my house and my patio.

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

Jim

On Jul 29, 1:21*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. * It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. * It also
shades the back of my house and my patio. * * * *

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

How long does it take to boil it down, and where do you do it?

R

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:03:34 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Jul 29, 1:21*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. * It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. * It also
shades the back of my house and my patio. * * * *

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

How long does it take to boil it down, and where do you do it?

Forever- and in my kitchen. I haven't done it since I installed a
humidifier, so the extra humidity has been welcome.

I set it on a slow boil for a couple days-- It doesn't need any
attention until it starts to color up a bit. [Then things can get
tricky fast- I never had problems with boiling 100gallons of sap
adding too much moisture to the house-- but on a couple occasions it
went from syrup to sugar to carbon while I wasn't paying attention.
*That* stinks up the house.]

I probably use one burner on the stove for 12 hours a day for 2-3
weeks to yield 3-4 gallons of syrup & a bit of sugar candy. [wild ass
guesses - I haven't done it in a few years.

Hmmmm- just thought of another use for my new Bayou burner-- I might
do some sap next spring and just finish it in the kitchen.

Jim

RicodJour wrote:

The non-cambium layers of a tree's wood is dead, but not dead in
the way animals die. Wood is pretty stupid, pardon my French -
it doesn't _know_ it's dead. So it keeps on trying to fulfill
its function which is to transport water.

Again you are talking about the recently-dead layers (xylem) immediately
under the vascular cambium. Under that layer is the secondary xylem,
which no longer conducts water and is used to store waste products (in
some cases - resins). The secondary xylem is also known as heartwood,
and this is what is used to produce modern dimensional lumber.

Both the Xylem and heartwood (secondary xylem) are composed of dead
cells. They are structurally intact, but they no longer respire (ie -
they are not biochemically active).

When a limb of sufficient size is cut near the trunk, you will be
exposing this dead heartwood region, which is incapable of protecting
itself against weather, sun, fungal and insect dammage. Only new
cambium growth over the exposed area will eventually provide this
protection.

It will do this whether or not it is still in tree form or
built into a deck or whatever.

Not really. Heartwood is not a good conductor of water. In fact, it is
necessary that the heartwood not contain significant amounts of water,
since that would dammage it during freeze-thaw (expansion-contraction)
cycles in the winter.

Any coating put on a tree that is intended to protect it from water
will interfere with the tree's eons-long evolution of its healing
process.

Heartwood is not normally exposed, so the application of a coating to it
will shield it against sun, rain, humidity, fungal and insect attack.
Normally the cambium and bark performs this function.

It is important how, when and where to prune limbs. Improper
pruning will not allow the tree to heal.

Yes, there is a correct cut-line to use for the most optimal removal of
a limb from the trunk. But we digress.

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. ...

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

Um - I didn't think that silver maples gave good syrup. That's why
sugar maples are called "sugar maples".

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:27:30 -0400, Sum Guy wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. ...

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

Um - I didn't think that silver maples gave good syrup. That's why
sugar maples are called "sugar maples".

I have 2 sugar maples on the other side of my house. Probably about
the same age as my silver- about 2feet in diameter. [the silver is
3-4] I tapped them a couple years. They gave less sap and it was
not as sweet as the silver.

I've talked to others with the same experience. Sugar maples are
less prone to limb damage and don't have surface roots. But other
than that I don't know why sugarbushes don't use them more.

Jim
[BTW- I've never tapped them, but others have extolled the virtues of
white birch and Box Elder [aka Black Maple] sap.]

In article ,
RicodJour wrote:
[ ... ]

It is important how, when and where to prune limbs. Improper pruning
will not allow the tree to heal.
http://www.gardenguides.com/69432-pr...ver-maple.html
[ ... ]

The proper way to prune a silver maple (much different from red or sugar
maples) is horizontally just above ground level. Then, apply copious
amounts of Roundup or similar herbicide to kill the roots, including
where they break the surface and sprout more silver maples (about every
two or three feet--on each root).

Those roots were a nightmare when cutting the grass; some of the roots
would get high enough to interfere with the mower blade, ocasionally
bending it. I cut mine down within a few years of buying my first house.
The sugar maple which was planted at the same time (1956) is still
growing well. I bought the house in 1979; at that time the silver maple
was about 25' tall, the sugar maple was probably over 40' and now is
at least 60. Sugar and red maples are keepers; silver maples are pretty
(white bark, oval leaves dark green on top and silver-white on the
bottom, hence the name) but incompatible with a lawn or any structures.

I don't miss my silver maple at all. I miss the sugar maple that was
hit by lightning and eventually blown down back in the '90s. The
remaining two are still great trees.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

If you want to reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
go plant trees.

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:01:20 -0400, "Marty B." wrote:
-snip-
Silver maple is a garbage tree. The wood is soft because they grow so
fast. Surely you've noticed how they break during wind, and how fast those
things grow. Why you would want to save the thing is beyond comprehension.

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. It also
shades the back of my house and my patio.

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

That's a sugar maple. Leaves shaped like the one on the Canadian flag,
with dark grey-brown bark and well-behaved roots (they stay underground).

Silver maples have white bark, leaves are pointed ovals, dark green on
top and silver-white on the bottom, with roots that break the surface
every 2-3 feet.

Sugar maples are good trees; silver maples are not.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

If you want to reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
go plant trees.

(Gary Heston) wrote:

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:01:20 -0400, "Marty B." wrote:
-snip-
Silver maple is a garbage tree. The wood is soft because they grow so
fast. Surely you've noticed how they break during wind, and how fast those
things grow. Why you would want to save the thing is beyond comprehension.

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. It also
shades the back of my house and my patio.

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

That's a sugar maple. Leaves shaped like the one on the Canadian flag,
with dark grey-brown bark and well-behaved roots (they stay underground).

No. no. no, and definitely don't.

Silver maples have white bark, leaves are pointed ovals, dark green on
top and silver-white on the bottom, with roots that break the surface
every 2-3 feet.

Also known as swamp, river, white, soft, or water maple. The Latin
taxonomy is Acer saccharinum. An argument has been made that
Linnaeus meant for the Silver Maple to be a sugar maple-- it was a
century later that someone named the Eastern US 'sugar' maple.
("The Sugar Maples" by Benjamin Franklin Bush, American Midland
Naturalist, Vol. 12, No. 11 (Sep., 1931), pp. 499-503)

See my other post for my own experience with both species on my
property.


Sugar maples are good trees; silver maples are not.

There are no bad trees-- just trees that don't please us sometimes.g
I am willing to put up with my Silver's foibles in exchange for its
benefits.

Jim

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