Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

I've found that PL-Premium (polyurethane construction adhesive) to be a
very durable, strong and water-proof glue for wood for all applications
(indoor and outdoor).

I just filled a couple of holes on the trunk of a silver maple that have
been formed by some sort of insect over the past maybe 6-months. The
hole is in the face of a limb-cut that I made a few years ago and had
painted with black pruning paint. I was surprised how deep the "rot"
was - I was able to push the plastic dispensing nozzle of the glue
cartridge all the way into down into the trunk.

So even though I've already done it, I'm wondering if anyone knows how
well this stuff works at filling holes in tree trunks to prevent further
rot and allow the tree to grow over and eventually cover exposed
heartwood.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

"Sum Guy" wrote in message ...
I've found that PL-Premium (polyurethane construction adhesive) to be a
very durable, strong and water-proof glue for wood for all applications
(indoor and outdoor).

I just filled a couple of holes on the trunk of a silver maple that have
been formed by some sort of insect over the past maybe 6-months. The
hole is in the face of a limb-cut that I made a few years ago and had
painted with black pruning paint. I was surprised how deep the "rot"
was - I was able to push the plastic dispensing nozzle of the glue
cartridge all the way into down into the trunk.

So even though I've already done it, I'm wondering if anyone knows how
well this stuff works at filling holes in tree trunks to prevent further
rot and allow the tree to grow over and eventually cover exposed
heartwood.

Using pruning paint is not a recommended procedure because it traps moisture
in the cavity and encourages rot, such as you found. It's better to leave
this type of wound alone and let the tree heal itself. (Palms are a
different matter . . . as monocots they don't heal . . .)

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

JimR wrote:

Using pruning paint is not a recommended procedure because it traps
moisture in the cavity and encourages rot, such as you found.

This was insect-induced rot.

Moisture could not be trapped - this is a vertical surface we're talking
about - roughly a circle about 3" diameter.

Wood protected by oil-based coatings tends to weather better than left
untreated.

It's funny how pruning paint is somehow not good for exposed wood, yet
you see people applying coatings to their decks and other exposed wood
all the time.

I've also found that pruning paint is good when applied to the top
surface of horizontal limbs near the trunk that squirrels tend to tear
apart - dammage that most people don't see because it's over their
heads. The squirrels don't find the bark so tasty with the paint.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

On Jul 29, 12:26*am, Sum Guy wrote:

It's funny how pruning paint is somehow not good for exposed wood, yet
you see people applying coatings to their decks and other exposed wood
all the time.


Decks and other exposed wood which has been cut and milled
into lumber is no longer alive...

Wood on a tree is still alive and growing...

It is best to leave tree wounds alone and allow them to heal
naturally... Exceptions to this logic are rare...

~~ Evan

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

On Jul 28, 11:26*pm, Sum Guy wrote:
JimR wrote:
Using pruning paint is not a recommended procedure because it traps
moisture in the cavity and encourages rot, such as you found.

This was insect-induced rot.

Moisture could not be trapped - this is a vertical surface we're talking
about - roughly a circle about 3" diameter. *

Wood protected by oil-based coatings tends to weather better than left
untreated.

It's funny how pruning paint is somehow not good for exposed wood, yet
you see people applying coatings to their decks and other exposed wood
all the time.

I've also found that pruning paint is good when applied to the top
surface of horizontal limbs near the trunk that squirrels tend to tear
apart - dammage that most people don't see because it's over their
heads. *The squirrels don't find the bark so tasty with the paint.

what insect makes a hole 3"

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 00:26:22 -0400, Sum Guy wrote:

JimR wrote:

Using pruning paint is not a recommended procedure because it traps
moisture in the cavity and encourages rot, such as you found.

This was insect-induced rot.

What insect *induces* rot? All the wood eating critters I know
about show up after the wood is dead.


Moisture could not be trapped - this is a vertical surface we're talking
about - roughly a circle about 3" diameter.

Wood protected by oil-based coatings tends to weather better than left
untreated.

It's funny how pruning paint is somehow not good for exposed wood, yet
you see people applying coatings to their decks and other exposed wood
all the time.

Those decks and stuff are *dead* wood. Presumably you cut the branch
off on a live tree. The tree will bleed and heal the wound much
better without being insulted further by some foreign sealer.


I've also found that pruning paint is good when applied to the top
surface of horizontal limbs near the trunk that squirrels tend to tear
apart - dammage that most people don't see because it's over their
heads. The squirrels don't find the bark so tasty with the paint.

I prefer to apply lead directly to the squirrels. But I don't think
squirrels do any damage to hollows in trees

Jim

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

"Evan" wrote in message
...
On Jul 29, 12:26 am, Sum Guy wrote:

It's funny how pruning paint is somehow not good for exposed wood, yet
you see people applying coatings to their decks and other exposed wood
all the time.


Decks and other exposed wood which has been cut and milled
into lumber is no longer alive...

Wood on a tree is still alive and growing...

It is best to leave tree wounds alone and allow them to heal
naturally... Exceptions to this logic are rare...

~~ Evan

====

Live Oaks maybe an exception. The pruners here are adamant about using paint
to prevent Live Oak wilt.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

On Jul 29, 6:55*am, "JimT" wrote:
"Evan" wrote in message

...
On Jul 29, 12:26 am, Sum Guy wrote:

It's funny how pruning paint is somehow not good for exposed wood, yet
you see people applying coatings to their decks and other exposed wood
all the time.

Decks and other exposed wood which has been cut and milled
into lumber is no longer alive...

Wood on a tree is still alive and growing...

It is best to leave tree wounds alone and allow them to heal
naturally... *Exceptions to this logic are rare...

~~ Evan

====


Actually the wood inside the tree is dead. Only the outer layer of a
tree is alive. But generally it is best of you just let the tree bark
grow over the wood. The black tree paint inhibits that and does trap
moisture. It will eventually heal it's self but it will never repair
the rot inside. If a substaintual part of the truck has rot in a spot
it is now weakened. If that is the case and the tree has the
potential to land on your house then have it removed. Lots of times
if you look at trees that have broken off during bad storms you see
that it was at a spot like this. Used to be people would clean out
holes like this and fill them with concrete. Don't know how well that
works. It's possible your holes were made by wood bees. Were they
about a 1/2" round and so well done that they almost looked like a
drill had done them? Wood bees will go a long way into wood.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

ransley wrote:

Moisture could not be trapped - this is a vertical surface we're
talking about - roughly a circle about 3" diameter.

what insect makes a hole 3"

The exposed inner heart-wood of the tree has a circular profile and is
3" in diameter, and it oriented vertically with respect to the ground.
This is where a secondary trunk had been, which was cut maybe 2 or 3
years ago.

This circular area was sprayed with pruning paint last year. The
surface was solid and intact at that time. The bark is growing nicely
around the perimiter of this area (this is a silver maple). I have two
such similar cuts on a sugar maple - the exposed area was even larger (4
or 5") and painted them soon after the cut was made. This was about 5
years ago. They are 75% covered over now by the growing bark, and they
remained solid (no rot, holes, fissures developing in them).

Getting back to the silver maple, at some point this year I noticed the
appearance of some cracks or voids on the cut surface along with what
looked like sawdust shavings around the crack. Yesterday I shoved the
plastic dispensing nozzle of a tube of PL Premium deep into the main
crack (it went in all the way - I wasn't expecting that) and I pumped
the crack full of glue.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

This was insect-induced rot.

What insect *induces* rot?

By rot, I mean the development of cracks, fissures, cavities and holes
caused by the removal of wood caused by insect activity. I guess I used
the wrong term.

All the wood eating critters I know about show up after the
wood is dead.

When you cut a large limb off a tree, the inner wood that you expose
*is* dead. The only living part of the trunk is the bark.

Those decks and stuff are *dead* wood. Presumably you cut the
branch off on a live tree. The tree will bleed and heal the
wound much better without being insulted further by some
foreign sealer.

If the cut is large enough, it will expose dead wood, and that wood is
vulnerable to insect dammage and weather-related dammage (actual rot,
fungus, etc). This dammage may set in before the tree has enough time
to grow around and cover the exposed surface with new bark.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

"Sum Guy" wrote in message ...
I've found that PL-Premium (polyurethane construction adhesive) to be a
very durable, strong and water-proof glue for wood for all applications
(indoor and outdoor).

I just filled a couple of holes on the trunk of a silver maple that have
been formed by some sort of insect over the past maybe 6-months. The
hole is in the face of a limb-cut that I made a few years ago and had
painted with black pruning paint. I was surprised how deep the "rot"
was - I was able to push the plastic dispensing nozzle of the glue
cartridge all the way into down into the trunk.

So even though I've already done it, I'm wondering if anyone knows how
well this stuff works at filling holes in tree trunks to prevent further
rot and allow the tree to grow over and eventually cover exposed
heartwood.

Silver maple is a garbage tree. The wood is soft because they grow so
fast. Surely you've noticed how they break during wind, and how fast those
things grow. Why you would want to save the thing is beyond comprehension.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

jamesgangnc wrote:

But generally it is best of you just let the tree bark grow over
the wood. The black tree paint inhibits that and does trap
moisture.

Pruning paint does not inhibit bark growth over the exposed cut surface,
and it does not trap moisture because the exposed heartwood quickly
dries out once exposed to the air after it's cut, and any moisture
deeper in the wood under the painted area will find other ways to move
within the tree.

It will eventually heal it's self but it will never repair the
rot inside.

I know that, but I'm thinking that the glue will (a) kill whatever
organisms/insects are in there causing the dammage, (b) fill the voids
to prevent re-introduction of similar pests, (c) perform mechanical
bonding and return strength to the dammaged area (in a way that other
simple fillers wouldn't).

It's possible your holes were made by wood bees. Were they
about a 1/2" round and so well done that they almost looked
like a drill had done them? Wood bees will go a long way
into wood.

We call them carpenter bees, and they have drilled those perfectly round
holes in the side of my eaves under the gutters in previous years before
I replaced the wood and covered them with aluminum siding. I have lots
of other lumber that sits in my back yard (remnants from other projects)
but I've never seen these bees go after that wood, nor the exposed eves
of my shed.

In the case of the fissures on the exposed cut surface of the silver
maple, these are not the perfectly round holes made by carpenter bees.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

On Jul 29, 8:54*am, Sum Guy wrote:
ransley wrote:
Moisture could not be trapped - this is a vertical surface we're
talking about - roughly a circle about 3" diameter.

what insect makes a hole 3"

The exposed inner heart-wood of the tree has a circular profile and is
3" in diameter, and it oriented vertically with respect to the ground.
This is where a secondary trunk had been, which was cut maybe 2 or 3
years ago.

This circular area was sprayed with pruning paint last year. *The
surface was solid and intact at that time. *The bark is growing nicely
around the perimiter of this area (this is a silver maple). *I have two
such similar cuts on a sugar maple - the exposed area was even larger (4
or 5") and painted them soon after the cut was made. *This was about 5
years ago. *They are 75% covered over now by the growing bark, and they
remained solid (no rot, holes, fissures developing in them).

Getting back to the silver maple, at some point this year I noticed the
appearance of some cracks or voids on the cut surface along with what
looked like sawdust shavings around the crack. *Yesterday I shoved the
plastic dispensing nozzle of a tube of PL Premium deep into the main
crack (it went in all the way - I wasn't expecting that) and I pumped
the crack full of glue.

Seems like that would be ok. It's going to be a weak spot even after
the tree grows over it. But there's nothing you can do about that.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

JimT wrote:

Decks and other exposed wood which has been cut and milled
into lumber is no longer alive...

Wood on a tree is still alive and growing...

As has already been mentioned, the wood inside a tree under the bark is
actually dead wood. The only difference between it and the lumber you
buy at Lowes is that the wood in the tree hasn't been milled.

It is best to leave tree wounds alone and allow them to heal
naturally... Exceptions to this logic are rare...

If the exposed surface is large enough, the wood can rot and/or be
attacked by insects before the tree has a chance to grow bark to cover
it.

I think that different climates can be more problematic than others. In
the north-east and great-lakes area, you have a shorter growing season
(takes more time to cover exposed cuts with bark) and lots of humidity
and freeze-thaw action in the winter, both of which is hard on untreated
exposed wood.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

"Marty B." wrote:

Silver maple is a garbage tree. Why you would want to save the
thing is beyond comprehension.

I have lots of trees in my large back yard, and this tree is near my
back fence, it's about 30 feet tall, and provides privacy between me and
the apartment building across the street behind me.

If I could go to a big-box building store or nursery and bring home a 20
or 30 foot mature tree of my choice and plant it exactly where I wanted
it, like I can do with a flag pole or a mail box, then sure we'd all be
doing that.

But trees don't grow on trees (so to speak). We can put up skyscrapers
in only a year or two, but it takes decades for a tree to grow to the
size that you want them to be. Until we can easily replace mature trees
with other mature trees in a few hours or days, I don't think I'm going
to be cutting mine down because it's not exactly the tree I might want
in a given location.

If you ask me, we need more trees and fewer people on this god-damn
planet.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

On Jul 29, 9:25*am, Sum Guy wrote:
JimT wrote:
Decks and other exposed wood which has been cut and milled
into lumber is no longer alive...

Wood on a tree is still alive and growing...

As has already been mentioned, the wood inside a tree under the bark is
actually dead wood. *The only difference between it and the lumber you
buy at Lowes is that the wood in the tree hasn't been milled.

It is best to leave tree wounds alone and allow them to heal
naturally... *Exceptions to this logic are rare...

If the exposed surface is large enough, the wood can rot and/or be
attacked by insects before the tree has a chance to grow bark to cover
it.

I think that different climates can be more problematic than others. *In
the north-east and great-lakes area, you have a shorter growing season
(takes more time to cover exposed cuts with bark) and lots of humidity
and freeze-thaw action in the winter, both of which is hard on untreated
exposed wood.

The non-cambium layers of a tree's wood is dead, but not dead in the
way animals die. Wood is pretty stupid, pardon my French - it doesn't
_know_ it's dead. So it keeps on trying to fulfill its function which
is to transport water. It will do this whether or not it is still in
tree form or built into a deck or whatever.

Any coating put on a tree that is intended to protect it from water
will interfere with the tree's eons-long evolution of its healing
process.

It is important how, when and where to prune limbs. Improper pruning
will not allow the tree to heal.
http://www.gardenguides.com/69432-pr...ver-maple.html
"Prune maples during their dormant period when you can see their shape
and branches. Pruning in late fall or early winter removes wood when
pests and diseases are not likely to thrive on the green wood."
"Avoid making "flush" cuts that destroy the bark collar or "stub" cuts
that leave exposed wood beyond the collar that may be susceptible to
disease."

Murphy's Law predicts that the most 'important' trees will suffer the
most egregious fates. If you need a tree for privacy, don't expect it
to be around forever.

A general overview of the Silver Maple:
http://hort.ufl.edu/trees/ACESACA.pdf
It's not a forever tree, it has 'issues'.

R

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:01:20 -0400, "Marty B." wrote:
-snip-
Silver maple is a garbage tree. The wood is soft because they grow so
fast. Surely you've noticed how they break during wind, and how fast those
things grow. Why you would want to save the thing is beyond comprehension.

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. It also
shades the back of my house and my patio.

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

Jim

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

On Jul 29, 1:21*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. * It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. * It also
shades the back of my house and my patio. * * * *

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

How long does it take to boil it down, and where do you do it?

R

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 13:03:34 -0700 (PDT), RicodJour
wrote:

On Jul 29, 1:21*pm, Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. * It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. * It also
shades the back of my house and my patio. * * * *

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

How long does it take to boil it down, and where do you do it?

Forever- and in my kitchen. I haven't done it since I installed a
humidifier, so the extra humidity has been welcome.

I set it on a slow boil for a couple days-- It doesn't need any
attention until it starts to color up a bit. [Then things can get
tricky fast- I never had problems with boiling 100gallons of sap
adding too much moisture to the house-- but on a couple occasions it
went from syrup to sugar to carbon while I wasn't paying attention.
*That* stinks up the house.]

I probably use one burner on the stove for 12 hours a day for 2-3
weeks to yield 3-4 gallons of syrup & a bit of sugar candy. [wild ass
guesses - I haven't done it in a few years.

Hmmmm- just thought of another use for my new Bayou burner-- I might
do some sap next spring and just finish it in the kitchen.

Jim

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

RicodJour wrote:

The non-cambium layers of a tree's wood is dead, but not dead in
the way animals die. Wood is pretty stupid, pardon my French -
it doesn't _know_ it's dead. So it keeps on trying to fulfill
its function which is to transport water.

Again you are talking about the recently-dead layers (xylem) immediately
under the vascular cambium. Under that layer is the secondary xylem,
which no longer conducts water and is used to store waste products (in
some cases - resins). The secondary xylem is also known as heartwood,
and this is what is used to produce modern dimensional lumber.

Both the Xylem and heartwood (secondary xylem) are composed of dead
cells. They are structurally intact, but they no longer respire (ie -
they are not biochemically active).

When a limb of sufficient size is cut near the trunk, you will be
exposing this dead heartwood region, which is incapable of protecting
itself against weather, sun, fungal and insect dammage. Only new
cambium growth over the exposed area will eventually provide this
protection.

It will do this whether or not it is still in tree form or
built into a deck or whatever.

Not really. Heartwood is not a good conductor of water. In fact, it is
necessary that the heartwood not contain significant amounts of water,
since that would dammage it during freeze-thaw (expansion-contraction)
cycles in the winter.

Any coating put on a tree that is intended to protect it from water
will interfere with the tree's eons-long evolution of its healing
process.

Heartwood is not normally exposed, so the application of a coating to it
will shield it against sun, rain, humidity, fungal and insect attack.
Normally the cambium and bark performs this function.

It is important how, when and where to prune limbs. Improper
pruning will not allow the tree to heal.

Yes, there is a correct cut-line to use for the most optimal removal of
a limb from the trunk. But we digress.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. ...

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

Um - I didn't think that silver maples gave good syrup. That's why
sugar maples are called "sugar maples".

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:27:30 -0400, Sum Guy wrote:

Jim Elbrecht wrote:

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. ...

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

Um - I didn't think that silver maples gave good syrup. That's why
sugar maples are called "sugar maples".

I have 2 sugar maples on the other side of my house. Probably about
the same age as my silver- about 2feet in diameter. [the silver is
3-4] I tapped them a couple years. They gave less sap and it was
not as sweet as the silver.

I've talked to others with the same experience. Sugar maples are
less prone to limb damage and don't have surface roots. But other
than that I don't know why sugarbushes don't use them more.

Jim
[BTW- I've never tapped them, but others have extolled the virtues of
white birch and Box Elder [aka Black Maple] sap.]

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in treetrunks
 

In article ,
RicodJour wrote:
[ ... ]

It is important how, when and where to prune limbs. Improper pruning
will not allow the tree to heal.
http://www.gardenguides.com/69432-pr...ver-maple.html
[ ... ]

The proper way to prune a silver maple (much different from red or sugar
maples) is horizontally just above ground level. Then, apply copious
amounts of Roundup or similar herbicide to kill the roots, including
where they break the surface and sprout more silver maples (about every
two or three feet--on each root).

Those roots were a nightmare when cutting the grass; some of the roots
would get high enough to interfere with the mower blade, ocasionally
bending it. I cut mine down within a few years of buying my first house.
The sugar maple which was planted at the same time (1956) is still
growing well. I bought the house in 1979; at that time the silver maple
was about 25' tall, the sugar maple was probably over 40' and now is
at least 60. Sugar and red maples are keepers; silver maples are pretty
(white bark, oval leaves dark green on top and silver-white on the
bottom, hence the name) but incompatible with a lawn or any structures.

I don't miss my silver maple at all. I miss the sugar maple that was
hit by lightning and eventually blown down back in the '90s. The
remaining two are still great trees.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

If you want to reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
go plant trees.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

In article ,
Jim Elbrecht wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 09:01:20 -0400, "Marty B." wrote:
-snip-
Silver maple is a garbage tree. The wood is soft because they grow so
fast. Surely you've noticed how they break during wind, and how fast those
things grow. Why you would want to save the thing is beyond comprehension.

Not the OP-- but here's why I want *my* silver maple. It is 150
years old & has more character than I can afford to buy. It also
shades the back of my house and my patio.

It is messy-- it drops limbs, seeds, buds, and leaves during the year.

But it also provides a few gallons of sweet maple syrup when the
spirit moves me to tap it.

That's a sugar maple. Leaves shaped like the one on the Canadian flag,
with dark grey-brown bark and well-behaved roots (they stay underground).

Silver maples have white bark, leaves are pointed ovals, dark green on
top and silver-white on the bottom, with roots that break the surface
every 2-3 feet.

Sugar maples are good trees; silver maples are not.


Gary

--
Gary Heston http://www.thebreastcancersite.com/

If you want to reduce the level of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere,
go plant trees.

Using PL-Premium (construction adhesive) to fill holes in tree trunks
 

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