I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt. I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to 20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000 weeds.

"James Branvold" wrote in message
.. .
I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt. I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to 20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience
to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the
majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old
plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000
weeds.



I would suggest a granular weed and feed for your situation. It will go a
long way to removing the weeds and will help to fill in the grass as well.
Now is the time to do it.

Peter H

"Peter H" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...

"James Branvold" wrote in message
.. .
I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions
in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin
in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt.
I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to
20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't
know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with
three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience
to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put
an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the
majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will
overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old
plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000
weeds.



I would suggest a granular weed and feed for your situation. It will go a
long way to removing the weeds and will help to fill in the grass as well.

Now is the time to do it.

Peter H


I thought that granular weed and feed would just prevent new weeds from
growing, but wouldn't do anything with existing weeds. Is there a weed and
feed that will kill existing weeds? If so, what do I look for?

James

"Peter H" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com...
"James Branvold" wrote in message
.. .
I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt. I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to 20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience
to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the
majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old
plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000
weeds.



I would suggest a granular weed and feed for your situation. It will go a
long way to removing the weeds and will help to fill in the grass as well.
Now is the time to do it.

Peter H


the granular is great for existing weeds but read the directions to
see what it will kill and if what you are trying to kill is supported
by the product. i like to put my weed and feed on when the grass is a
little damp/wet so the granuals "stick" to the weed leaf and that is
what kills them. i personally have found that putting weed and feed on
dry grass is not as effective. all products spell out how to use and
how to get best results right on the packaging.

the other option might be to use a hose end spray product.

70,000 sq ft is pretty big and i only have 15,000 feet of experience.

do some web searches. read the fert/weed/chemicals companies websites.
you may have to start from scratch again. overseeding might work but
be careful how it interacts with the killers.

i don't think that watering turfgrass will choke out a severe weed
problems. the weeds will take most of the water needed for the grass
root system. i think you need to get the weed problem under control
and then build healthy grass (seed, water, aerating, fert).

just my opinion fwiw.

Before you go spending thousands on a sprinkler system, try using
Scotts products first. Hopefully you can get it where you are.

I have a well system and don't water my lawn AT ALL. Grass, when it is
properly cared for (using Scotts 4-Step for example. See
www.scotts.com) is 'smart' and will be healthy when you give it the
nutrients it needs. It won't die in drought conditions, rather it will
go dormant. Once the rain returns so will it. Bugs, crabgrass, bare
spots, and weeds will be GONE COMPLETELY.

Let me tell you, this is the second year I'm using Scotts and there is
grass growing where there was once nothing but DIRT!!! It just came up
because I eliminated all the bad stuff that choked out the grass, so
the grass just came back! Other areas that were spotty/bare have
COMPLETELY filled in. In the fall if you use step 4, the grass will
Rhizome, or expand its roots outward and grow more grass and fill in
everywhere!

Step 2 will KILL 99% of your weeds in a few days. You don't have to do
anything except spread it in a spreader right after it rained. The
stuff will stick to the weeds and kill them, but won't harm the grass.
These guys at Scotts got it down to an art.

I see you have a large lot so you might need a few bags of stuff. But
I think it's better to start small and give it the nutrients the lawn
is looking for first rather than put in a sprinkler system and feed
crabgrass and weeds.

You also mention about the chemicals and your kids...scotts has a
section on it. In short, they say it's really not as dangerous as
people believe. It's harmless in tiny granule form as it is spread
out. But you do your own research. I'd say when my kid arrives (7
months!) I'll just do the front yard one week and the back another
week.

Just my opinion though. Take it for what its worth. Good luck in
making your lawn thicnk and green again. IT IS ADDICTING WHEN YOU
START SEEING PROGRESS and results. My wife thought I was crazy when I
found ONE DANDELION this morning and made a big fuss about it.
heheheh....

"James Branvold" wrote in message ...
I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt. I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to 20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000 weeds.

No, it will kill the existing weeds.

The best I have used is Scott's. Do not get the cheap stuff - you will just
be wasting your money. I've tried the cheap stuff (Vigoro and Howard
Johnson come to mind). The granules on the cheap stuff are very large and
are simply too heavy to easily stick to the weeds. The Scott's granules are
much finer. You have to make sure the weeds are wet and you may have to
make a few passes at different angles to get everything.

My preference is liquid, such as Weed-B-Gone. I have a little over two
acres and I've walked just about the whole thing using Weed-B-Gone
concentrate in a hose-end sprayer (with a dash of dish soap - supposed to
help it stick to the weeds with waxy surfaces). An alternative would be to
buy/rent a battery powered backpack sprayer or a tow-behind sprayer with a
boom.

Spreading the granules is easier and fastest, but I've had better results
with the liquid.

"James Branvold" wrote in message
.. .


I thought that granular weed and feed would just prevent new weeds from
growing, but wouldn't do anything with existing weeds. Is there a weed and
feed that will kill existing weeds? If so, what do I look for?

James

James Branvold wrote:

I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt. I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to 20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000 weeds.

The Weed&Feed will kill and prevent weeds. Also the alot of watering will drown
and kill weeds that thrive in dry soil.

It seems the consensus is that using either a granular weed 'n' feed or a
liquid weed killer will do the job. I wish I posted the question a couple of
weeks ago before I pulled up 5000+ dandelions :-)

My follow-up question is: once you use a weed 'n' feed, you can't seed new
lawn for 6 weeks. I have lots of bare dirt patches in my lawn. Won't new
weeds form in the bare dirt? Would it be better to get a thick lawn with
lots of weeds and then use a weed 'n' feed?

James

"JJ" wrote in message
...
No, it will kill the existing weeds.

The best I have used is Scott's. Do not get the cheap stuff - you will
just
be wasting your money. I've tried the cheap stuff (Vigoro and Howard
Johnson come to mind). The granules on the cheap stuff are very large and
are simply too heavy to easily stick to the weeds. The Scott's granules
are
much finer. You have to make sure the weeds are wet and you may have to
make a few passes at different angles to get everything.

My preference is liquid, such as Weed-B-Gone. I have a little over two
acres and I've walked just about the whole thing using Weed-B-Gone
concentrate in a hose-end sprayer (with a dash of dish soap - supposed to
help it stick to the weeds with waxy surfaces). An alternative would be
to
buy/rent a battery powered backpack sprayer or a tow-behind sprayer with a
boom.

Spreading the granules is easier and fastest, but I've had better results
with the liquid.

"James Branvold" wrote in message
.. .


I thought that granular weed and feed would just prevent new weeds from
growing, but wouldn't do anything with existing weeds. Is there a weed
and
feed that will kill existing weeds? If so, what do I look for?

James

"James Branvold" wrote:
It seems the consensus is that using either a granular weed 'n' feed or a
liquid weed killer will do the job. I wish I posted the question a couple
of weeks ago before I pulled up 5000+ dandelions :-)

My follow-up question is: once you use a weed 'n' feed, you can't seed
new lawn for 6 weeks. I have lots of bare dirt patches in my lawn. Won't
new weeds form in the bare dirt? Would it be better to get a thick lawn
with lots of weeds and then use a weed 'n' feed?

James

No. Put down your weed and feed granules asap. (your grass should be wet)

...With no rain in the next 24 hrs. Do it every 6 weeks till you have
mostly grass. Then you can spot weed.

Seed in the fall.

--
GO# 40 and F the french.
http://www.countryoforiginlabeling.com/french.html
----------------------------------------------------------------------
http://NewsReader.Com/
50 GB/Month

"Peter H" wrote in message
able.rogers.com...

"James Branvold" wrote in message
.. .
I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions
in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin
in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt.
I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to
20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't
know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with
three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience
to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put
an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the
majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will
overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old
plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000
weeds.



I would suggest a granular weed and feed for your situation. It will go a
long way to removing the weeds and will help to fill in the grass as well.

Now is the time to do it.

Peter H


I thought that granular weed and feed would just prevent new weeds from
growing, but wouldn't do anything with existing weeds. Is there a weed and
feed that will kill existing weeds? If so, what do I look for?

James

"Peter H" wrote in message . cable.rogers.com...
"James Branvold" wrote in message
.. .
I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt. I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to 20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience
to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the
majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old
plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000
weeds.



I would suggest a granular weed and feed for your situation. It will go a
long way to removing the weeds and will help to fill in the grass as well.
Now is the time to do it.

Peter H


the granular is great for existing weeds but read the directions to
see what it will kill and if what you are trying to kill is supported
by the product. i like to put my weed and feed on when the grass is a
little damp/wet so the granuals "stick" to the weed leaf and that is
what kills them. i personally have found that putting weed and feed on
dry grass is not as effective. all products spell out how to use and
how to get best results right on the packaging.

the other option might be to use a hose end spray product.

70,000 sq ft is pretty big and i only have 15,000 feet of experience.

do some web searches. read the fert/weed/chemicals companies websites.
you may have to start from scratch again. overseeding might work but
be careful how it interacts with the killers.

i don't think that watering turfgrass will choke out a severe weed
problems. the weeds will take most of the water needed for the grass
root system. i think you need to get the weed problem under control
and then build healthy grass (seed, water, aerating, fert).

just my opinion fwiw.

Before you go spending thousands on a sprinkler system, try using
Scotts products first. Hopefully you can get it where you are.

I have a well system and don't water my lawn AT ALL. Grass, when it is
properly cared for (using Scotts 4-Step for example. See
www.scotts.com) is 'smart' and will be healthy when you give it the
nutrients it needs. It won't die in drought conditions, rather it will
go dormant. Once the rain returns so will it. Bugs, crabgrass, bare
spots, and weeds will be GONE COMPLETELY.

Let me tell you, this is the second year I'm using Scotts and there is
grass growing where there was once nothing but DIRT!!! It just came up
because I eliminated all the bad stuff that choked out the grass, so
the grass just came back! Other areas that were spotty/bare have
COMPLETELY filled in. In the fall if you use step 4, the grass will
Rhizome, or expand its roots outward and grow more grass and fill in
everywhere!

Step 2 will KILL 99% of your weeds in a few days. You don't have to do
anything except spread it in a spreader right after it rained. The
stuff will stick to the weeds and kill them, but won't harm the grass.
These guys at Scotts got it down to an art.

I see you have a large lot so you might need a few bags of stuff. But
I think it's better to start small and give it the nutrients the lawn
is looking for first rather than put in a sprinkler system and feed
crabgrass and weeds.

You also mention about the chemicals and your kids...scotts has a
section on it. In short, they say it's really not as dangerous as
people believe. It's harmless in tiny granule form as it is spread
out. But you do your own research. I'd say when my kid arrives (7
months!) I'll just do the front yard one week and the back another
week.

Just my opinion though. Take it for what its worth. Good luck in
making your lawn thicnk and green again. IT IS ADDICTING WHEN YOU
START SEEING PROGRESS and results. My wife thought I was crazy when I
found ONE DANDELION this morning and made a big fuss about it.
heheheh....

"James Branvold" wrote in message ...
I have around 70,000 sq ft. of lawn: 10,000 sq ft. of sod and the rest
seeded. I put in the seed two years ago and we had very dry conditions in
Ottawa, Ontario. The seeded portion looks pretty bad. It is fairly thin in
areas that I can see individual clumps of grass surrounded by bare dirt. I
also have lots of weeds. I spent the past two weeks pulling nearly every
dandelion and I've pulled around 5000 so far. I must have 15,000 to 20,000
remaining weeds. There's a lot of variety in these weeds and I don't know
the names of most of them. I've taken out one nasty weed called a Viper
Bugloss (1000) and Canadian Thistle (50) and something that looks like
lamb's ear (200). I have lots of clover plus many others. I can't
realistically pull that many weeds.

I don't water my lawn. It takes 3 days to totally water my lawn with three
sprinklers going for 1 hour on a spot. I don't have the time or patience to
do this. I am considering installing underground sprinklers this summer.

I started fertilizing last fall. I put a synthetic 9-4-2 on. I also put an
organic 4-4-2 on this spring. I'm not too pleased with the results.

So, this is the background. My question is: How do I get rid of the majority
of the weeds? Would you spray with something like KillEx? Will overseeding
and watering "choke" out the existing weeds? How about a weed 'n feed
fertilizer? I've been hesitent to use chemicals since my two year old plays
on the lawn. I don't think I can use Round-up. I can't "paint" 20,000 weeds.