Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered acidic.
I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I lime it first
and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground, but I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

A PH of 6 is not too bad, but more than likely your lawn could benefit from
a lime application once per year. Most turf grasses are happiest with a PH
of around 6.5, but there are a few exceptions. You didn't specify your
grass type. The symptom of a lawn with too low PH is the lawn will not
green up properly even after fertilizer is applied. If your lawn greens up
nicely when you apply fertilizer, you really don't have a problem with soil
PH as far as the grass itself is concerned, however lowering the soil PH
will probably help with your moss problem. Iron sulfate will also help with
moss. When you fertilize look for fertilizer with iron. Check the active
ingredients and you should find iron sulfate or ferrous sulfate.

You can apply lime with or without thatch. It really doesn't matter. The
lime is going to eventually soak into the soil even if there is thatch,
although thatch may slow down the process. If you have thatch, it sounds
like this is your biggest problem and you should address it first.

If you have the capability of bagging, you may want to do that for a few
months until the thatch problem has been eraticated completely. If you are
using a mulching lawn mower, make sure you mow often and don't take too much
off at any one time. Thatch usually happens because of poor mowing habits.
If you are not mulching or bagging, you should be. However even if you are
mulching, you should be mowing as often as you should because if you try to
take off too much, you are going to overwhealm the mulching system of your
mower. Some people think that if you mow your grass low, you won't have to
mow as often. Actually the reverse is true. For instance let's say I want
to mow 1" off my grass, if I mow my lawn when it is 2" tall and I mow to 1",
I'm taking off 50% of the total grass which is a bad thing. If I mow my
lawn when it's 4" and I mow it to 3", I'm only taking off 25% which is OK.
Different grass types like to be mowed at different heights, so research
what type of grass you have to find out the recommended mowing heights.

"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:uEXgc.50994$dg7.48531@edtnps84...
Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered acidic.
I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I lime it first
and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground, but I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

Thanks Roy, That's awesome. We just moved in and it looks like the lawn
has never really had any TCL. lots of thatch, moss, weeds, burnt
areas too. It also looks like the last people tried to fix some bare
spots with different types of grass, big clumps of odd grass. (all in
all a nightmare, but I'm willing) the lawn has direct sunlight all
day, but I'm not sure the grass type(s).

So here is my plan so far.

1) dethatch (2 days)
2) lime (I don't have a drop spreader just the spray kind is that ok) (3
days)
3) weed and feed (5 days)
4) mow often as you said. (as often as needed)


The reason I put days in, is I've been told that a lime aplication is
done early morning for about three days. and the same for the weed and
feed. I totally have no idea.

Located Victoria, BC. Canada (west coast weather)

Pucky


RoyDMercer wrote:
A PH of 6 is not too bad, but more than likely your lawn could benefit from
a lime application once per year. Most turf grasses are happiest with a PH
of around 6.5, but there are a few exceptions. You didn't specify your
grass type. The symptom of a lawn with too low PH is the lawn will not
green up properly even after fertilizer is applied. If your lawn greens up
nicely when you apply fertilizer, you really don't have a problem with soil
PH as far as the grass itself is concerned, however lowering the soil PH
will probably help with your moss problem. Iron sulfate will also help with
moss. When you fertilize look for fertilizer with iron. Check the active
ingredients and you should find iron sulfate or ferrous sulfate.

You can apply lime with or without thatch. It really doesn't matter. The
lime is going to eventually soak into the soil even if there is thatch,
although thatch may slow down the process. If you have thatch, it sounds
like this is your biggest problem and you should address it first.

If you have the capability of bagging, you may want to do that for a few
months until the thatch problem has been eraticated completely. If you are
using a mulching lawn mower, make sure you mow often and don't take too much
off at any one time. Thatch usually happens because of poor mowing habits.
If you are not mulching or bagging, you should be. However even if you are
mulching, you should be mowing as often as you should because if you try to
take off too much, you are going to overwhealm the mulching system of your
mower. Some people think that if you mow your grass low, you won't have to
mow as often. Actually the reverse is true. For instance let's say I want
to mow 1" off my grass, if I mow my lawn when it is 2" tall and I mow to 1",
I'm taking off 50% of the total grass which is a bad thing. If I mow my
lawn when it's 4" and I mow it to 3", I'm only taking off 25% which is OK.
Different grass types like to be mowed at different heights, so research
what type of grass you have to find out the recommended mowing heights.

"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:uEXgc.50994$dg7.48531@edtnps84...

Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered acidic.
I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I lime it first
and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground, but I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

I think you are suppose to lime and wait like 6 weeks before fertilizing or vice
versa

Pucky Loucks wrote:

Thanks Roy, That's awesome. We just moved in and it looks like the lawn
has never really had any TCL. lots of thatch, moss, weeds, burnt
areas too. It also looks like the last people tried to fix some bare
spots with different types of grass, big clumps of odd grass. (all in
all a nightmare, but I'm willing) the lawn has direct sunlight all
day, but I'm not sure the grass type(s).

So here is my plan so far.

1) dethatch (2 days)
2) lime (I don't have a drop spreader just the spray kind is that ok) (3
days)
3) weed and feed (5 days)
4) mow often as you said. (as often as needed)

The reason I put days in, is I've been told that a lime aplication is
done early morning for about three days. and the same for the weed and
feed. I totally have no idea.

Located Victoria, BC. Canada (west coast weather)

Pucky

RoyDMercer wrote:
A PH of 6 is not too bad, but more than likely your lawn could benefit from
a lime application once per year. Most turf grasses are happiest with a PH
of around 6.5, but there are a few exceptions. You didn't specify your
grass type. The symptom of a lawn with too low PH is the lawn will not
green up properly even after fertilizer is applied. If your lawn greens up
nicely when you apply fertilizer, you really don't have a problem with soil
PH as far as the grass itself is concerned, however lowering the soil PH
will probably help with your moss problem. Iron sulfate will also help with
moss. When you fertilize look for fertilizer with iron. Check the active
ingredients and you should find iron sulfate or ferrous sulfate.

You can apply lime with or without thatch. It really doesn't matter. The
lime is going to eventually soak into the soil even if there is thatch,
although thatch may slow down the process. If you have thatch, it sounds
like this is your biggest problem and you should address it first.

If you have the capability of bagging, you may want to do that for a few
months until the thatch problem has been eraticated completely. If you are
using a mulching lawn mower, make sure you mow often and don't take too much
off at any one time. Thatch usually happens because of poor mowing habits.
If you are not mulching or bagging, you should be. However even if you are
mulching, you should be mowing as often as you should because if you try to
take off too much, you are going to overwhealm the mulching system of your
mower. Some people think that if you mow your grass low, you won't have to
mow as often. Actually the reverse is true. For instance let's say I want
to mow 1" off my grass, if I mow my lawn when it is 2" tall and I mow to 1",
I'm taking off 50% of the total grass which is a bad thing. If I mow my
lawn when it's 4" and I mow it to 3", I'm only taking off 25% which is OK.
Different grass types like to be mowed at different heights, so research
what type of grass you have to find out the recommended mowing heights.

"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:uEXgc.50994$dg7.48531@edtnps84...

Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered acidic.
I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I lime it first
and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground, but I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

Grasses can be one of two types. Cool season (like Bermuda or St Augustine)
or warm season (like rye or fescue). Going on where you live, I'm sure you
have some type of cool season grass. You really should try and find out
what type of grass you have (ask a neighbor) because knowing what type of
grass you have will enable you to research things like proper watering,
overseeding requirements (if necessary), mowing heights, and things of this
nature. My guess is you probably have Rye, Fescue, or Bluegrass. It is
possible you could have a combination of two or three different grasses by
orignial design.

I'm not sure why you were told to lime over three days. One application
should be plenty. The thing you need to know is how much to apply. You
already know your soil PH is 6.0. Cool season grasses do well in soil PH in
the range from 6.0 to 6.5, so actually you're already there. Really the
only reason you need it is to keep your moss down. When you say spray type,
I'm assuming you mean a rotary spreader which will work great. Assuming you
will be using dolomitic limestone pellets, I would recommend only about
10-15 lbs per 1000 sq/ft. This is a very rough guess. It would be best to
ask a neighbor who has a nice lawn because all soils are different as far as
how much lime it will take to raise the PH level. The main thing to
remember is don't over do it. You're already very close to the optimum PH
level. You'll need to either apply right before a good rain, or water your
lawn after application because you don't want to leave the lime on the grass
leaves for very long.

My recommendation is to not worry too much about your weeds right now. Your
main goal should be to restore your lawn to a healthy state first.
Chemicals which kill weeds also stress lawns to a certain extent so you
really should only use them when you have a healthy lawn.



"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:LRYgc.52083$dg7.38396@edtnps84...
Thanks Roy, That's awesome. We just moved in and it looks like the lawn
has never really had any TCL. lots of thatch, moss, weeds, burnt
areas too. It also looks like the last people tried to fix some bare
spots with different types of grass, big clumps of odd grass. (all in
all a nightmare, but I'm willing) the lawn has direct sunlight all
day, but I'm not sure the grass type(s).

So here is my plan so far.

1) dethatch (2 days)
2) lime (I don't have a drop spreader just the spray kind is that ok) (3
days)
3) weed and feed (5 days)
4) mow often as you said. (as often as needed)


The reason I put days in, is I've been told that a lime aplication is
done early morning for about three days. and the same for the weed and
feed. I totally have no idea.

Located Victoria, BC. Canada (west coast weather)

Pucky


RoyDMercer wrote:
A PH of 6 is not too bad, but more than likely your lawn could benefit
from
a lime application once per year. Most turf grasses are happiest with a
PH
of around 6.5, but there are a few exceptions. You didn't specify your
grass type. The symptom of a lawn with too low PH is the lawn will not
green up properly even after fertilizer is applied. If your lawn greens
up
nicely when you apply fertilizer, you really don't have a problem with
soil
PH as far as the grass itself is concerned, however lowering the soil PH
will probably help with your moss problem. Iron sulfate will also help
with
moss. When you fertilize look for fertilizer with iron. Check the
active
ingredients and you should find iron sulfate or ferrous sulfate.

You can apply lime with or without thatch. It really doesn't matter.
The
lime is going to eventually soak into the soil even if there is thatch,
although thatch may slow down the process. If you have thatch, it
sounds
like this is your biggest problem and you should address it first.

If you have the capability of bagging, you may want to do that for a few
months until the thatch problem has been eraticated completely. If you
are
using a mulching lawn mower, make sure you mow often and don't take too
much
off at any one time. Thatch usually happens because of poor mowing
habits.
If you are not mulching or bagging, you should be. However even if you
are
mulching, you should be mowing as often as you should because if you try
to
take off too much, you are going to overwhealm the mulching system of
your
mower. Some people think that if you mow your grass low, you won't have
to
mow as often. Actually the reverse is true. For instance let's say I
want
to mow 1" off my grass, if I mow my lawn when it is 2" tall and I mow to
1",
I'm taking off 50% of the total grass which is a bad thing. If I mow my
lawn when it's 4" and I mow it to 3", I'm only taking off 25% which is
OK.
Different grass types like to be mowed at different heights, so research
what type of grass you have to find out the recommended mowing heights.

"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:uEXgc.50994$dg7.48531@edtnps84...

Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered acidic.
I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I lime it first
and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground, but I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

In his case I don't think it would be necessary to wait that long. Normally
you would wait a while before fertilizing because the lime needs to have
time to work to enable the grass to absorb the nutrients you are supplying
in the fertilizer application. However in his case the primary reason he
needs the lime is to help with his moss problem.

"DIE SPAMMER !!!" wrote in message
...
I think you are suppose to lime and wait like 6 weeks before fertilizing
or vice
versa

Pucky Loucks wrote:

Thanks Roy, That's awesome. We just moved in and it looks like the lawn
has never really had any TCL. lots of thatch, moss, weeds, burnt
areas too. It also looks like the last people tried to fix some bare
spots with different types of grass, big clumps of odd grass. (all in
all a nightmare, but I'm willing) the lawn has direct sunlight all
day, but I'm not sure the grass type(s).

So here is my plan so far.

1) dethatch (2 days)
2) lime (I don't have a drop spreader just the spray kind is that ok) (3
days)
3) weed and feed (5 days)
4) mow often as you said. (as often as needed)

The reason I put days in, is I've been told that a lime aplication is
done early morning for about three days. and the same for the weed and
feed. I totally have no idea.

Located Victoria, BC. Canada (west coast weather)

Pucky

RoyDMercer wrote:
A PH of 6 is not too bad, but more than likely your lawn could benefit
from
a lime application once per year. Most turf grasses are happiest with
a PH
of around 6.5, but there are a few exceptions. You didn't specify
your
grass type. The symptom of a lawn with too low PH is the lawn will
not
green up properly even after fertilizer is applied. If your lawn
greens up
nicely when you apply fertilizer, you really don't have a problem with
soil
PH as far as the grass itself is concerned, however lowering the soil
PH
will probably help with your moss problem. Iron sulfate will also
help with
moss. When you fertilize look for fertilizer with iron. Check the
active
ingredients and you should find iron sulfate or ferrous sulfate.

You can apply lime with or without thatch. It really doesn't matter.
The
lime is going to eventually soak into the soil even if there is
thatch,
although thatch may slow down the process. If you have thatch, it
sounds
like this is your biggest problem and you should address it first.

If you have the capability of bagging, you may want to do that for a
few
months until the thatch problem has been eraticated completely. If
you are
using a mulching lawn mower, make sure you mow often and don't take
too much
off at any one time. Thatch usually happens because of poor mowing
habits.
If you are not mulching or bagging, you should be. However even if
you are
mulching, you should be mowing as often as you should because if you
try to
take off too much, you are going to overwhealm the mulching system of
your
mower. Some people think that if you mow your grass low, you won't
have to
mow as often. Actually the reverse is true. For instance let's say I
want
to mow 1" off my grass, if I mow my lawn when it is 2" tall and I mow
to 1",
I'm taking off 50% of the total grass which is a bad thing. If I mow
my
lawn when it's 4" and I mow it to 3", I'm only taking off 25% which is
OK.
Different grass types like to be mowed at different heights, so
research
what type of grass you have to find out the recommended mowing
heights.

"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:uEXgc.50994$dg7.48531@edtnps84...

Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very
excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered acidic.
I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I lime it first
and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground, but
I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

Um, they can be applied the same day. Disregard -any- advice
Diespammer gives, he's truely clueless.


"RoyDMercer" wrote:
In his case I don't think it would be necessary to wait that long.
Normally you would wait a while before fertilizing because the lime needs
to have time to work to enable the grass to absorb the nutrients you are
supplying in the fertilizer application. However in his case the primary
reason he needs the lime is to help with his moss problem.

"DIE SPAMMER !!!" wrote in message
...
I think you are suppose to lime and wait like 6 weeks before
fertilizing
or vice
versa

Pucky Loucks wrote:

Thanks Roy, That's awesome. We just moved in and it looks like the
lawn
has never really had any TCL. lots of thatch, moss, weeds, burnt
areas too. It also looks like the last people tried to fix some bare
spots with different types of grass, big clumps of odd grass. (all in
all a nightmare, but I'm willing) the lawn has direct sunlight all
day, but I'm not sure the grass type(s).

So here is my plan so far.

1) dethatch (2 days)
2) lime (I don't have a drop spreader just the spray kind is that ok)
(3 days)
3) weed and feed (5 days)
4) mow often as you said. (as often as needed)

The reason I put days in, is I've been told that a lime aplication is
done early morning for about three days. and the same for the weed
and feed. I totally have no idea.

Located Victoria, BC. Canada (west coast weather)

Pucky

RoyDMercer wrote:
A PH of 6 is not too bad, but more than likely your lawn could
benefit
from
a lime application once per year. Most turf grasses are happiest
with
a PH
of around 6.5, but there are a few exceptions. You didn't specify
your
grass type. The symptom of a lawn with too low PH is the lawn will
not
green up properly even after fertilizer is applied. If your lawn
greens up
nicely when you apply fertilizer, you really don't have a problem
with
soil
PH as far as the grass itself is concerned, however lowering the
soil
PH
will probably help with your moss problem. Iron sulfate will also
help with
moss. When you fertilize look for fertilizer with iron. Check the
active
ingredients and you should find iron sulfate or ferrous sulfate.

You can apply lime with or without thatch. It really doesn't
matter.
The
lime is going to eventually soak into the soil even if there is
thatch,
although thatch may slow down the process. If you have thatch, it
sounds
like this is your biggest problem and you should address it first.

If you have the capability of bagging, you may want to do that for
a
few
months until the thatch problem has been eraticated completely. If
you are
using a mulching lawn mower, make sure you mow often and don't take
too much
off at any one time. Thatch usually happens because of poor mowing
habits.
If you are not mulching or bagging, you should be. However even if
you are
mulching, you should be mowing as often as you should because if
you
try to
take off too much, you are going to overwhealm the mulching system
of
your
mower. Some people think that if you mow your grass low, you won't
have to
mow as often. Actually the reverse is true. For instance let's
say I
want
to mow 1" off my grass, if I mow my lawn when it is 2" tall and I
mow
to 1",
I'm taking off 50% of the total grass which is a bad thing. If I
mow
my
lawn when it's 4" and I mow it to 3", I'm only taking off 25% which
is
OK.
Different grass types like to be mowed at different heights, so
research
what type of grass you have to find out the recommended mowing
heights.

"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:uEXgc.50994$dg7.48531@edtnps84...

Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very
excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered
acidic. I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I
lime it first and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground,
but
I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

Thanks so much Roy, you've been a real help.

Pucky

RoyDMercer wrote:
Grasses can be one of two types. Cool season (like Bermuda or St Augustine)
or warm season (like rye or fescue). Going on where you live, I'm sure you
have some type of cool season grass. You really should try and find out
what type of grass you have (ask a neighbor) because knowing what type of
grass you have will enable you to research things like proper watering,
overseeding requirements (if necessary), mowing heights, and things of this
nature. My guess is you probably have Rye, Fescue, or Bluegrass. It is
possible you could have a combination of two or three different grasses by
orignial design.

I'm not sure why you were told to lime over three days. One application
should be plenty. The thing you need to know is how much to apply. You
already know your soil PH is 6.0. Cool season grasses do well in soil PH in
the range from 6.0 to 6.5, so actually you're already there. Really the
only reason you need it is to keep your moss down. When you say spray type,
I'm assuming you mean a rotary spreader which will work great. Assuming you
will be using dolomitic limestone pellets, I would recommend only about
10-15 lbs per 1000 sq/ft. This is a very rough guess. It would be best to
ask a neighbor who has a nice lawn because all soils are different as far as
how much lime it will take to raise the PH level. The main thing to
remember is don't over do it. You're already very close to the optimum PH
level. You'll need to either apply right before a good rain, or water your
lawn after application because you don't want to leave the lime on the grass
leaves for very long.

My recommendation is to not worry too much about your weeds right now. Your
main goal should be to restore your lawn to a healthy state first.
Chemicals which kill weeds also stress lawns to a certain extent so you
really should only use them when you have a healthy lawn.



"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:LRYgc.52083$dg7.38396@edtnps84...

Thanks Roy, That's awesome. We just moved in and it looks like the lawn
has never really had any TCL. lots of thatch, moss, weeds, burnt
areas too. It also looks like the last people tried to fix some bare
spots with different types of grass, big clumps of odd grass. (all in
all a nightmare, but I'm willing) the lawn has direct sunlight all
day, but I'm not sure the grass type(s).

So here is my plan so far.

1) dethatch (2 days)
2) lime (I don't have a drop spreader just the spray kind is that ok) (3
days)
3) weed and feed (5 days)
4) mow often as you said. (as often as needed)


The reason I put days in, is I've been told that a lime aplication is
done early morning for about three days. and the same for the weed and
feed. I totally have no idea.

Located Victoria, BC. Canada (west coast weather)

Pucky


RoyDMercer wrote:

A PH of 6 is not too bad, but more than likely your lawn could benefit

from

a lime application once per year. Most turf grasses are happiest with a

PH

of around 6.5, but there are a few exceptions. You didn't specify your
grass type. The symptom of a lawn with too low PH is the lawn will not
green up properly even after fertilizer is applied. If your lawn greens

up

nicely when you apply fertilizer, you really don't have a problem with

soil

PH as far as the grass itself is concerned, however lowering the soil PH
will probably help with your moss problem. Iron sulfate will also help

with

moss. When you fertilize look for fertilizer with iron. Check the

active

ingredients and you should find iron sulfate or ferrous sulfate.

You can apply lime with or without thatch. It really doesn't matter.

The

lime is going to eventually soak into the soil even if there is thatch,
although thatch may slow down the process. If you have thatch, it

sounds

like this is your biggest problem and you should address it first.

If you have the capability of bagging, you may want to do that for a few
months until the thatch problem has been eraticated completely. If you

are

using a mulching lawn mower, make sure you mow often and don't take too

much

off at any one time. Thatch usually happens because of poor mowing

habits.

If you are not mulching or bagging, you should be. However even if you

are

mulching, you should be mowing as often as you should because if you try

to

take off too much, you are going to overwhealm the mulching system of

your

mower. Some people think that if you mow your grass low, you won't have

to

mow as often. Actually the reverse is true. For instance let's say I

want

to mow 1" off my grass, if I mow my lawn when it is 2" tall and I mow to

1",

I'm taking off 50% of the total grass which is a bad thing. If I mow my
lawn when it's 4" and I mow it to 3", I'm only taking off 25% which is

OK.

Different grass types like to be mowed at different heights, so research
what type of grass you have to find out the recommended mowing heights.

"Pucky Loucks" wrote in message
news:uEXgc.50994$dg7.48531@edtnps84...


Hello, I've just started my very first lawn project ever. Very excited
about it. I just tested my soil and it's ph is 6 considered acidic.
I've got a pretty good go of thatch and moss. Should I lime it first
and then dethatch? or dethatch and then lime?

I would think that dethatch would be first to open up the ground, but I
just want to make sure I don't over look any thing.

Thanks, Hope someone can give me a clue. would like to make this a
hobby.

Pucky

Steveo wrote in message ...
Um, they can be applied the same day. Disregard -any- advice
Diespammer gives, he's truely clueless.

Hey numb nuts have you snuck around anyone in this groups home taking pictures yet?

Steveo wrote in message ...
(snip)


i am not George you assclown I am a NG reader who wants the truth.
why did you run away from Dougs door? why arent there any close up
pics if you say you didnt run? why did you wait until Leland was not
at home to sneak around his house and take pics?Why do you hide your
identity from those you harass?