Thanks to everyone for the very nice responses received on this thread. My
question has been fully answered, and thanks again group !!

--James--

Warren writes:

The whole point of grilling is to get the flavor that you can
only get with charcoal.

There is no flavor from a charcoal fire. It is nearly pure carbon emitting
hot CO2 and H20, heated air, and radiation. Just like gas.

The flavor is from the heat intensity and distribution, the ventilation of
fresh air instead of trapping various vapors, the volatilization of
drippings, the lack of old cooking residues, etc.. A charcoal fire happens
to produce favorable versions of all these factors, but the charcoal itself
is a tasteless fuel, as is gas. Gas can approach charcoal in these
regards, but it is hard to maintain that quality as crud builds up and
weather/heat-cycling corrodes.

Richard J Kinch wrote:
Warren writes:

The whole point of grilling is to get the flavor that you can
only get with charcoal.

There is no flavor from a charcoal fire. It is nearly pure carbon
emitting
hot CO2 and H20, heated air, and radiation. Just like gas.

The flavor is from the heat intensity and distribution, the
ventilation of
fresh air instead of trapping various vapors, the volatilization of
drippings, the lack of old cooking residues, etc.. A charcoal fire
happens
to produce favorable versions of all these factors, but the charcoal
itself
is a tasteless fuel, as is gas. Gas can approach charcoal in these
regards, but it is hard to maintain that quality as crud builds up and
weather/heat-cycling corrodes.


Okay Mr. Science. But the flavor isn't from the heat. It's from the
smoke produced by the incomplete combustion of the wood in the
charcoal -- something you don't have with gas which is more fully
combusted.

If all I want is to heat the meat, I can use any source. But I like the
flavor of charcoal smoke in my steak. You can't get that with gas. The
best you can hope for is the flavor of the smoke from burning fat
drippings, which I prefer to avoid no matter what the heat source.

--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.
Blatant Plug: Spend your Amazon gift certificates he
http://www.holzemville.com/mall/associateshop.html

Okay Mr. Science. But the flavor isn't from the heat



GAME ON!!!!!!!!!!

Warren writes:

Okay Mr. Science. But the flavor isn't from the heat. It's from the
smoke produced by the incomplete combustion of the wood in the
charcoal -- something you don't have with gas which is more fully
combusted.

The definition of "charcoal" is wood that has been reduced to nearly
pure carbon (and a bit of non-combustible ash) by cooking off everything
else in the absence of oxygen (inside a "retort"). Nowadays this is
done in kilns, but in olden days they used to just bury a huge heap of
timber under a clay mound, and poke a few holes for just enough air for
just enough fire to heat the wood to a temperature to boil off
everything but the carbon in the cellulose. People in this old biz
("colliers") were good at knowing when the process was complete, so you
didn't waste any of the fuel when the charring was complete. Before
coke (essentially the same process applied to coal, yielding a
technically pure carbon sponge) was perfected as a carbon source, this
was how fuel to smelt iron was made, and why England and the US were
largely deforested, and why today they're reforested.

As such, being technically pure C, charcoal cannot produce "smoke" in
the flavoring sense, but only hot gases (CO2, CO) and soot (amorphous
carbon).

Commercial briquettes contain clay and wax binders to create the dense
lumps from wood waste, but that doesn't really change the chemistry (the
wax is about gone by the time the fire heats up).

You may be confusing the "smoke flavoring" that comes from burning (or
even just heating) ordinary hardwoods like hickory, which not previously
having been "charred", still contains a lot of potently aromatic resins
that boil off in the smoke and cause the "smoky" flavor. Those flavors
are *not present* in charcoal, which is, in itself, flavorless.

Of course, any heating of meat, such as with charcoal fire, changes the
flavors. For example, proteins denature, and sugar is produced by
pyrolyzation and in turn is carmelized, and the cooked flavors appear.
But these flavors are not sourced in the fuel (carbon in the form of
charcoal), which is merely a heat source.

"Warren" wrote in message
news:2uKEc.8595$IQ4.2639@attbi_s02...
Okay Mr. Science. But the flavor isn't from the heat. It's from the
smoke produced by the incomplete combustion of the wood in the
charcoal -- something you don't have with gas which is more fully
combusted.

If all I want is to heat the meat, I can use any source. But I like the
flavor of charcoal smoke in my steak. You can't get that with gas. The
best you can hope for is the flavor of the smoke from burning fat
drippings, which I prefer to avoid no matter what the heat source.

--
Warren H.

There is a big difference between barbequing and grilling. It takes many
hours to infuse meat with smoke flavor. True barbeque takes hours, is done
under low heat, and comes from meat hanging in a smoke chamber where the
smoke is derived from various hardwoods. The basic method for most grilling
involves searing the meat directly over the heat and then cooking over
indirect heat until the rest of the meat is done. When you are grilling,
the cook times are too fast to incorporate much flavor during the actual
grilling process. When grilling, adding flavor usually comes by injections
or marinades. Personally I can taste a slight difference between charcoal
and gas grilling, but the difference is not worth the inconvenience of
charcoal IMO. This difference can be overcome by using wood chips, but wood
chips are not worth the effort either as far as I'm concerned given the
too-short cooking times. There are also things you can do on a gas grill
that are impractical on a charcoal grill like rotisserie.

But if you like using charcoal and are pleased with the results, by all
means go with what works for you.

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message The whole point of grilling is to
get the flavor that you can
only get with charcoal.

There is no flavor from a charcoal fire. It is nearly pure carbon
emitting
hot CO2 and H20, heated air, and radiation. Just like gas.

Tell you what - you guys ought to go the Alt.food.barbecue ng. Think you
will find some real advice and ideas.

Charcoal briquets DO have flavor - the flavor of petrolium, glue, saw dust,
etc. Might as well use old motor oil. If you like it, go for it.
Charcoal lump is something different, it that it is REAL charcoal.

However, the best is still good old fashioned wood that has been well cured
(drying for at least a year).

Gas grills have their place - great for a quick job like grilling small
steaks, chicken, maybe some veggies, etc; but that is about that is about
it. There is nothing like a good (indirect fire) smoker.

Sorry to bust in on your cinversation, but as a long time pit master, just
felt like I needed to say something to put you all on the right track

"Bob" wrote in message
news
Gas grills have their place - great for a quick job like grilling small
steaks, chicken, maybe some veggies, etc; but that is about that is about
it. There is nothing like a good (indirect fire) smoker.

"small steaks"? And you live in Texas? My steaks are 2" thick and come out
better than any steak house I've been to.

But you are right. There is nothing like meat from a good smoker. You
can't duplicate that with a grill. Each method has it's own purpose and
comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

Greetings,

Richard J Kinch wrote:

As such, being technically pure C, charcoal cannot produce "smoke" in
the flavoring sense, but only hot gases (CO2, CO) and soot (amorphous
carbon).

How does this explain the smell given off by my mesquite charcoal? It's
been charred, is black through & through yet apparently has enough of
something to create a distintive odor that passes onto the food.

For what it's worth, my grill of choice at the moment is a webber
gas-start charcoal. Easy to start, ash falls through to a bin.

--
Kyle A. York

No one has yet mentioned the carcinogenic properties of the compounds
created by grilling, which are now beginning to be widely studied.
Apparently, "charring" is one of the worst offenders. Who could have ever
guessed that English and New England cuisine, with all those rather
disgusting boiled dinners, was probably the safest?

Check out MHP grills. Great quality product

http://www.modernhomeproducts.com/index.html

Bob wrote:
"gregpresley" wrote in message
No one has yet mentioned the carcinogenic properties of the compounds
created by grilling, which are now beginning to be widely studied.
Apparently, "charring" is one of the worst offenders.

You are absolutely right about that!!!!!

Also, the fat dripping on hot lava rock or hot metal and smoking
(which some people have mentioned adds a smoke flavor) is pure
carcinogen.

Right. But you must avoid lots of things. For instance, black pepper is
supposed to have 23 know carcinogins. You can't live your life in fear.

"James Nipper" wrote in message
...


Thanks to everyone for the very nice responses received on this thread. My
question has been fully answered, and thanks again group !!

--James--


Since the original Poster is satisfied I will attempt a hijack : )
I am in the process of building a brick grilling island in my backyard that
will be feed from a propane stub.

The structure shape is not yet "set -in -stone" so to speak because I have
questions regarding the grilling area.
First I assume the grill needs to be at least lined with firebrick, bur I
wonder, how many layers, and do I need a special mortar?
Second, can I build a burner out of say, black iron pipe? Or would I be
better off buying a pre-made burner...
I.E, what kind of danger(s) do I present myself with a home made burner? (
which I could make to fit the grill size I want?
Thanks for any input.

Brandon

In article zjjFc.625$O14.317@lakeread03,
Brandon wrote:

Second, can I build a burner out of say, black iron pipe? Or would I be
better off buying a pre-made burner...

You could, but it will rust out eventually and will never heat as evenly
as a premade one. Use a premade stainless steel burner.

--
Rich Greenberg N6LRT Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time zone. I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

Since the original Poster is satisfied I will attempt a hijack : )
I am in the process of building a brick grilling island in my backyard
that
will be feed from a propane stub.

The structure shape is not yet "set -in -stone" so to speak because I have
questions regarding the grilling area.
First I assume the grill needs to be at least lined with firebrick, bur I
wonder, how many layers, and do I need a special mortar?
Second, can I build a burner out of say, black iron pipe? Or would I be
better off buying a pre-made burner...
I.E, what kind of danger(s) do I present myself with a home made burner? (
which I could make to fit the grill size I want?
Thanks for any input.

Brandon


Firebrick uses a special mortar. I can't say for sure whether you need
firebick or not.
A single layer is all that any modern fireplace has. No way you would need
more.

Your home-made burner should work. At least they work great with natural
gas. A premade cast iron one will last forever. SS will last about 3
years. At least that is the longest any ever lasted me when used once or
twice a week 48 weeks a year.

Colbyt