I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few power
or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman brand
tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy I have
no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should call
them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the state
and staffed with slave labor).

Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned DeWalt
tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies after a
short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra electric
motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you need them -
and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended warranty program,
and most people I know don't buy them - even though for all intents and
purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back the tool and swap it for
a new one anytime the older one doesn't work. So other than the time
you lose always gong to HF to exchange tools, that does seem like a good
deal. How can American companies compete with that?

But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are
going to be made in the USA?

One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to
find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made
crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued
professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in
oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break
after one use, etc.

The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a
bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed
out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking
at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.

Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:50:02 +0000, USENET READER wrote:

Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?

And I'm sure your people just sprung up out of the ground? Are you
American Indian? It's nice that your trying to pin the
quality/manufacturing of these tools an illegal immigrants. All these
"mexicans" are doing is buying what they can afford. You and your friends
should be ****ed at the contractors who are *Hiring* these laborers. They
hire these people because they are cheaper, non-union and they are
disposable.

The real problems are the corporations that are dismantling the American
economy factory by factory and selling the machinery and technology to
"Red China". Wal-Mart is the largest of the leaders in this new movement:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

So I suggest that you stop trolling and watch the above line and learn
something........

--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

Black & Decker actually makes drills and some other handtools at a factory
in Fayetteville....but some product lines are moving to Mexico this year.

and Kennametal in Asheboro makes metal cutting bits.

USENET READER wrote:

I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few power
or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman brand
tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy I have
no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should call
them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the state
and staffed with slave labor).

Are you stuck in the '80s? Most Chinese companies have been privatized.


Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned DeWalt
tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies after a
short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra electric
motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you need them -
and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended warranty program,
and most people I know don't buy them - even though for all intents and
purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back the tool and swap it for
a new one anytime the older one doesn't work. So other than the time
you lose always gong to HF to exchange tools, that does seem like a good
deal. How can American companies compete with that?

They can't as long as American consumers puy the cheapest product they
can find. IMO, Harbor Freight should not even be in business, but as
long as people keep buying the junk, they'll survive.


But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are
going to be made in the USA?

There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you
willing to pay a higher price to buy them?


One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to
find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made
crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued
professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in
oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break
after one use, etc.

That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool.


The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a
bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed
out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking
at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.

That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers
I've seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about
some of the "American" crews I've seen.


Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?

They probably represent a small total of the tool buyers. Don't try
turn this into someone else's fault. The American consumer is choosing
the cheapest product, which is not going to be made in the US.

"C G" wrote in message
. com...
USENET READER wrote:

I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few power
or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman brand
tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy I have
no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should call them
Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the state and
staffed with slave labor).

Are you stuck in the '80s? Most Chinese companies have been privatized.


Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned DeWalt
tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies after a
short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra electric motor
brushes which almost always get lost by the time you need them - and you
will. HF always tries to sell you an extended warranty program, and most
people I know don't buy them - even though for all intents and purposes,
if you buy the EW, you can bring back the tool and swap it for a new one
anytime the older one doesn't work. So other than the time you lose
always gong to HF to exchange tools, that does seem like a good deal.
How can American companies compete with that?

They can't as long as American consumers puy the cheapest product they can
find. IMO, Harbor Freight should not even be in business, but as long as
people keep buying the junk, they'll survive.


But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are
going to be made in the USA?

There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you
willing to pay a higher price to buy them?


One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to
find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made
crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued
professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in oil
(which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break after one
use, etc.

That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool.


The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a
bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed
out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking
at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.

That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers I've
seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about some
of the "American" crews I've seen.


Amen! The Mexican workers around here bust their asses working two
full-time jobs that no one else wants. They are some of the hardest-working
and most honest workers we have in my area.

Wal-mart survives because people actually WANT to buy crap for low prices.
If they didn't want it, China wouldn't produce it.

Blame yourselves, not the immigrants nor the foreign competition.

USENET READER wrote:

I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few power
or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman brand
tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy I have
no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should call
them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the state
and staffed with slave labor).

Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned DeWalt
tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies after a
short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra electric
motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you need them -
and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended warranty program,
and most people I know don't buy them - even though for all intents and
purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back the tool and swap it for
a new one anytime the older one doesn't work. So other than the time
you lose always gong to HF to exchange tools, that does seem like a good
deal. How can American companies compete with that?

But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are
going to be made in the USA?

One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to
find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made
crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued
professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in
oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break
after one use, etc.

The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a
bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed
out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking
at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.

Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?



Trade protectionist!!!! Why do you hate Amerika?? Damned liberal whacko!!!!

No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice
to watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame
all the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals
for less money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame
the politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money
from these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.



Timothy wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 18:50:02 +0000, USENET READER wrote:


Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?


And I'm sure your people just sprung up out of the ground? Are you
American Indian? It's nice that your trying to pin the
quality/manufacturing of these tools an illegal immigrants. All these
"mexicans" are doing is buying what they can afford. You and your friends
should be ****ed at the contractors who are *Hiring* these laborers. They
hire these people because they are cheaper, non-union and they are
disposable.

The real problems are the corporations that are dismantling the American
economy factory by factory and selling the machinery and technology to
"Red China". Wal-Mart is the largest of the leaders in this new movement:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/walmart/

So I suggest that you stop trolling and watch the above line and learn
something........

C G wrote:

USENET READER wrote:

I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few
power or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman
brand tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy
I have no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should
call them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by
the state and staffed with slave labor).


Are you stuck in the '80s? Most Chinese companies have been privatized.

And who owns these private companies? Mostly it is well-connected
members of the ChiCom party - so for all intents and purposes, it is
still owned by those who run the government.


Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned
DeWalt tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies
after a short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra
electric motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you
need them - and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended
warranty program, and most people I know don't buy them - even though
for all intents and purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back
the tool and swap it for a new one anytime the older one doesn't
work. So other than the time you lose always gong to HF to exchange
tools, that does seem like a good deal. How can American companies
compete with that?


They can't as long as American consumers puy the cheapest product they
can find. IMO, Harbor Freight should not even be in business, but as
long as people keep buying the junk, they'll survive.

It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so
they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And
when a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy,
they go with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault,
but mostly with big business for going overseas in the first place.

And when you are trying to compete with some other contractor who hires
Mexican illegals, you gotta try and cut your costs as much as you can.
If the government enforced it's immigration laws, fined or arrested
employers for hiring illegals, shipped the illegals back over the
border, and sealed the border up with higher walls that couldn't be cut
through or climbed over.


But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools
are going to be made in the USA?


There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you
willing to pay a higher price to buy them?

Actually - yes I am - but it is a lot of work trying to find American
made tools.



One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder
to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The
Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to
continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you
soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's
hoes break after one use, etc.


That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool.

If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work.


The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need
a bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not
dressed out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell
phone, looking at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.


That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers
I've seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about
some of the "American" crews I've seen.

They work their asses off - not neccesarilly getting anything done, or
working smarter either. Can't tell you how many cut phone and cable
lines, water pipes and ther stuff that gets done by this hard workers.
Also - they seem to die or get injured in the workplace either because
the bosses don't want them to work with safety equipment or use safe
workplace practices (because it costs too much) or because they didn't
work that way back in Mexico. My friends work hard, work smart, work
careful, and do good quality work. They pay there self-employment FICA,
state and federal taxes, they pay their insurance, and they buy good
quality american-made tools when they can. They just keep getting
underbid by companies that hire illegals.


Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?


They probably represent a small total of the tool buyers. Don't try
turn this into someone else's fault. The American consumer is choosing
the cheapest product, which is not going to be made in the US.


The American consumer isn't always choosing the cheapest product -
sometimes it's all the consumer can find. When a company like Lowe's
can buy cheap chinese made crap for 10% of what they pay Marshalltown,
and can sell it for half of what an American made product sells for,
they will not want to have so much money tied up in inventory and they
realize that they can make more money selling crap that falls apart and
needs to be repurchased more often.

Oscar_Lives wrote:

"C G" wrote in message
. com...

USENET READER wrote:


I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few power
or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman brand
tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy I have
no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should call them
Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the state and
staffed with slave labor).

Are you stuck in the '80s? Most Chinese companies have been privatized.


Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned DeWalt
tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies after a
short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra electric motor
brushes which almost always get lost by the time you need them - and you
will. HF always tries to sell you an extended warranty program, and most
people I know don't buy them - even though for all intents and purposes,
if you buy the EW, you can bring back the tool and swap it for a new one
anytime the older one doesn't work. So other than the time you lose
always gong to HF to exchange tools, that does seem like a good deal.
How can American companies compete with that?

They can't as long as American consumers puy the cheapest product they can
find. IMO, Harbor Freight should not even be in business, but as long as
people keep buying the junk, they'll survive.


But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are
going to be made in the USA?

There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you
willing to pay a higher price to buy them?


One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to
find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made
crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued
professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in oil
(which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break after one
use, etc.

That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool.


The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a
bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed
out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking
at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.

That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers I've
seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about some
of the "American" crews I've seen.



Amen! The Mexican workers around here bust their asses working two
full-time jobs that no one else wants. They are some of the hardest-working
and most honest workers we have in my area.

They are the most honest? Define honest. If by honest you mean
sneaking into the country illegally, lying about their names, using a
fake social security number and stealing tools off trucks and jobs sites
as being honest - then you must be a Republican to use such ****ed-up
logic like that.

They work two jobs because they aren't getting paid enough on one job to
live here in the Triangle, and send enough money back home. And no
citizens or legal immigrants want the jobs at what these employers are
willing to pay - which is less than min wage in some cases. Are you
saying that America is about people working for slave labor wages being
exploited by ruthless employers who are trying to **** them over at
every turn? That is something to strive for, isn't it?

Wal-mart survives because people actually WANT to buy crap for low prices.
If they didn't want it, China wouldn't produce it.

Blame yourselves, not the immigrants nor the foreign competition.


Go **** yourself - I blame the big corporations until someone can make a
logical and rational argument that can prove otherwise.

Rodney Rash wrote:

USENET READER wrote:

I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few
power or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman
brand tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy
I have no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should
call them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by
the state and staffed with slave labor).

Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned
DeWalt tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies
after a short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra
electric motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you
need them - and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended
warranty program, and most people I know don't buy them - even though
for all intents and purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back
the tool and swap it for a new one anytime the older one doesn't
work. So other than the time you lose always gong to HF to exchange
tools, that does seem like a good deal. How can American companies
compete with that?

But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools
are going to be made in the USA?

One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder
to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The
Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to
continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you
soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's
hoes break after one use, etc.

The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need
a bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not
dressed out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell
phone, looking at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.

Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?




Trade protectionist!!!! Why do you hate Amerika?? Damned liberal whacko!!!!

I don't hate America. I love America. I just wonder why fascist
assholes like you continue to support trade policies set by big
corporations designed to rob American workers of hard won wage and hour
and workplace health and safety laws that ultimately will lead to the
destruction of the middle class.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 22:08:20 +0000, USENET READER wrote:

No - my family immigrated to this country legally - half through Ellis
Island and the other half through other legal ports.

And actually - I know a shitload more about politics in general and this
issue in particular than you probably do. So you can take your advice to
watch and learn and stick it!

Of course I blame the contractors who hire the illegals. I also blame all
the other managers and owners of other business who hire illegals for less
money than they pay citizens and legal immigrants. And I blame the
politicans who get bribed to look the other way when they take money from
these businesses and also from right-wing foundations to study
market-based solutions to public policy issues.


Who really give a crap on how your family got here? Legal...illegal, they
still came here... and why did they do that? Looking for a better life
than what the could find in the hole they crawled out of I'm sure. That's
all these "illegal" immigrants are trying to do.

You presume too much about me when it comes to politics, I'm a blue dog
Democrat.I grew up in the Ohio Valley, watching my Dad work 16 hours a day
at Weirton Steel, standing with him on the picket lines, collecting cans
so we could eat. STFU! You have no high ground here Sir. I've remember
when it was Japan that was dumping steel on the global market and we just
about starved. Sucks to have to eat goverment cheese.

All your posts' are doing,(besides one huge F'ing troll for attention) is
blaming everyone around you for the problems of the American economy. You
sure was thinking about buying American when you bought your VW, now
wern't ya. Are you protesting the union breaking that's going on? Are you
shopping as locally as possible? Are you supporting your local mom and
pops, or are you bitchin' about the crap tools at Lowes?

I too live someplace with a large "immigrant" population. Be it mexican or
korean or russian, going to the grocery store is like going to a different
country due to all the different languages floating in the air. All these
people are doing is to look for a better life. And you damn well get used
to it. You sure as hell not going to do the jobs that these people due for
the wage that they get. The American workers are some of the highest paid
workers in the world, be ready for your pay cut and you can thank the new
corporate modle for that.

Remember, even in the worst of times, your standard of living is still far
and above 4 billion other people in this world ... and always will be.
Quit yer bitchin' and start buying American, start by selling your
VW....lol


--
Yard Works Gardening Co.
http://www.ywgc.com

USENET READER wrote:


Rodney Rash wrote:

USENET READER wrote:

I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few
power or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman
brand tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a
democracy I have no problem doing business with) and Red China
(perhaps I should call them Fascist China, a country where the
factories are owned by the state and staffed with slave labor).

Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned
DeWalt tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies
after a short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra
electric motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you
need them - and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended
warranty program, and most people I know don't buy them - even though
for all intents and purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back
the tool and swap it for a new one anytime the older one doesn't
work. So other than the time you lose always gong to HF to exchange
tools, that does seem like a good deal. How can American companies
compete with that?

But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools
are going to be made in the USA?

One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder
to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The
Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to
continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you
soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's
hoes break after one use, etc.

The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians
and who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly
older white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African
American) - everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak
Spanish and need a bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor
- who is not dressed out for work - usually stands around talking on
his cell phone, looking at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a
white guy.

Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal
immigrant construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or
are they spending as little money as possible on tools as they might
either get them stolen from a job site, or because they might get
deported at any time and don't want to have any more money invested
in tools than absolutely necessary?





Trade protectionist!!!! Why do you hate Amerika?? Damned liberal
whacko!!!!


I don't hate America. I love America. I just wonder why fascist
assholes like you continue to support trade policies set by big
corporations designed to rob American workers of hard won wage and hour
and workplace health and safety laws that ultimately will lead to the
destruction of the middle class.


Ha!! I paid more in taxes than you earned all year. And do you know how
I EARNED that money? Buying fareast stock. You have to be smart my
friend. Smart.
5 years ago I was a factory slob.
Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.
Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.
Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.
Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.
Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.
Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart. Smart.

Timothy wrote:

shopping as locally as possible? Are you supporting your local mom and
pops, or are you bitchin' about the crap tools at Lowes?

Great insight. I found my American cast axe in a locally owned
hardware store, not part of a chain.

Gregor

"USENET READER" wrote in message
ink.net...



It's a vicious cycle - people's wages don't keep up with inflation, so
they either look for cheaper stuff or they have no other choice. And when
a store finds it is stocked with goods no one can afford to buy, they go
with cheaper stuff to stay in business. It's everyone's fault, but mostly
with big business for going overseas in the first place.

Wrong. Greedy consumers think they have to have every device and every
luxury available nowadays. Even the poor have cadillacs, cell phones, game
boys, ipods, and $250 tennis shoes. ****ing stupid people with no self
control and no brains are to blame for this mess.



And when you are trying to compete with some other contractor who hires
Mexican illegals, you gotta try and cut your costs as much as you can. If
the government enforced it's immigration laws, fined or arrested employers
for hiring illegals, shipped the illegals back over the border, and sealed
the border up with higher walls that couldn't be cut through or climbed
over.

Stupid ****. We aren't talking about illegal aliens. We are talking about
damn hard working immigrants doing jobs that fat lazy americans who are used
to living on the dole won't do.




But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools are
going to be made in the USA?


There are some, but do you and your friends try to find them? Are you
willing to pay a higher price to buy them?

Actually - yes I am - but it is a lot of work trying to find American made
tools.


Yeah, because no-skilled union american workers think they have to be paid
$25 an hour to manufacture these tools.




One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder to
find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The Chinese-made
crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to continued
professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you soak it in
oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's hoes break
after one use, etc.


That's what happens when you buy the lowest cost tool.

If that's all the stores sell, you either buy it or you don't work.



That's different than the crews I've seen. And the Mexican laborers I've
seen are usually working their asses off. Can't say the same about some
of the "American" crews I've seen.

They work their asses off - not neccesarilly getting anything done, or
working smarter either. Can't tell you how many cut phone and cable
lines, water pipes and ther stuff that gets done by this hard workers.
Also - they seem to die or get injured in the workplace either because the
bosses don't want them to work with safety equipment or use safe workplace
practices (because it costs too much) or because they didn't work that way
back in Mexico. My friends work hard, work smart, work careful, and do
good quality work. They pay there self-employment FICA, state and federal
taxes, they pay their insurance, and they buy good quality american-made
tools when they can. They just keep getting underbid by companies that
hire illegals.

And don't forget all the fat lazy and corrupt union workers who strangle
productivity because of stupid labor rules that require 5 shovel-leaners for
every one worker.






Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?


They probably represent a small total of the tool buyers. Don't try turn
this into someone else's fault. The American consumer is choosing the
cheapest product, which is not going to be made in the US.


The American consumer isn't always choosing the cheapest product -
sometimes it's all the consumer can find. When a company like Lowe's can
buy cheap chinese made crap for 10% of what they pay Marshalltown, and can
sell it for half of what an American made product sells for, they will not
want to have so much money tied up in inventory and they realize that they
can make more money selling crap that falls apart and needs to be
repurchased more often.

American consumers are too stupid, lazy, and looking for instant
gratification that they think they are owed by the government. They won't
work hard and save and take care of what they have. They want more more
more disposable shit and they want the government or the corporation or "the
man" to give it to them because they think they "deserve it".

"Rodney Rash" wrote in message
news:3yEFd.4580$OF5.1806@attbi_s52...
USENET READER wrote:


Rodney Rash wrote:

USENET READER wrote:

I am starting a DYI home-improvement project and I notice that few
power or hand tools are made in the USA. Even most of the Craftsman
brand tools are made in the USA. Some are made in Taiwan (a democracy
I have no problem doing business with) and Red China (perhaps I should
call them Fascist China, a country where the factories are owned by the
state and staffed with slave labor).

Almost everything in Harbor Freight (except for the reconditioned
DeWalt tools) is from China. The stuff is garbage and usually dies
after a short period of time. Grinders and drills come with extra
electric motor brushes which almost always get lost by the time you
need them - and you will. HF always tries to sell you an extended
warranty program, and most people I know don't buy them - even though
for all intents and purposes, if you buy the EW, you can bring back the
tool and swap it for a new one anytime the older one doesn't work. So
other than the time you lose always gong to HF to exchange tools, that
does seem like a good deal. How can American companies compete with
that?

But I was talking to two buddies of mine and then mentioned something
about the construction trades which made me wonder if any more tools
are going to be made in the USA?

One guy works as a stone mason and he is finding it harder and harder
to find American made tools of his trade in the stores. The
Chinese-made crap (his words) are cheaply made, don't hold up to
continued professional work, rivets pop, everything rusts unless you
soak it in oil (which is not good for the mortar or cement, mason's
hoes break after one use, etc.

The other guy runs a catering truck that runs around to construction
sites. He says that, except for the licensed trades (electricians and
who are mostly younger white guys), the plumber (who are mostly older
white guys) and the bricklayers (who are mostly African American) -
everybody else is Mexican and they almost only speak Spanish and need a
bi-lingual supervisor on the job. This supervisor - who is not dressed
out for work - usually stands around talking on his cell phone, looking
at his steel and gold Rolex watch - is a white guy.

Well - the real question is - are any of the largely illegal immigrant
construction workers buying quality American-made tools, or are they
spending as little money as possible on tools as they might either get
them stolen from a job site, or because they might get deported at any
time and don't want to have any more money invested in tools than
absolutely necessary?





Trade protectionist!!!! Why do you hate Amerika?? Damned liberal
whacko!!!!


I don't hate America. I love America. I just wonder why fascist
assholes like you continue to support trade policies set by big
corporations designed to rob American workers of hard won wage and hour
and workplace health and safety laws that ultimately will lead to the
destruction of the middle class.



You don't love America. I'll bet you are on public assistance or are a fag
with an agenda against everything that this country was founded upon and you
are mad at God for making you queer.