"My chemical question, and my "who told you to say that" comment are
justified because I realized yesterday that I was dealing with a
Limbaugh
clone. Most of them have been put back in storage since the election
this
past November, but apparently, some remain activated, like you. If you
think
about it, I'm doing you a favor. If I can help you break your link to
the
mother ship, the resulting knowledge you gain may save your life
someday.

So, about the 10 chemicals: You said some are used on both food and
ornamental crops. To test your knowledge, if any, I'm curious if you're

familiar with 10 which are NOT shared between the two industries. Then,
in
lesson two, we'll discuss WHY they are not shared.

The PETA/fishing question: There has to be some reason you jumped to
that
conclusion, so I took a shot and guessed that you've been attacked by
someone close to you, probably for an innocent activity like fishing.
If
this is NOT the case, than you are simply spouting what you've been
told to
by....whom? Rush? Savage? "


Heh, Doug, this is a lawn/garden newsgroup. Don't try to turn it into
a political forum. One thing I like about clowns like you is your
condescending attitude, which is so easily exposed. You think
everyone who doesn't share your extremist views, is stupid, can't think
for themselves and that they must be getting told what to say. Like I
call up some national political commentator and ask "I'm arguing with
an idiot on a newsgroup, what should I say next?" LOL And I know
you'll say "My views aren't extreme!" I think most of us know that
anyone who routinely calls people who put chemicals on lawns "thugs",
is in fact an extremist. Once you see crap like that, it's easy to
figure out where you're coming from.

As for your test, we all know there are no right answers that would
satisfy you. You can't even figure out if some chemicals are used
both in the home environment and on food crops. First you were on one
side, then the other. Strange for a guy who eats vegetables treated
with chemicals, but won't spray a weed. And now you want ME to take a
test? ROFLMAO!

wrote in message
oups.com...


Heh, Doug, this is a lawn/garden newsgroup. Don't try to turn it into
a political forum.

It wasn't me who dragged extreme pseudo-environmental nonsense into this,
like PETA. That was YOUR contribution.

wrote:
Heh, Doug, this is a lawn/garden newsgroup. Don't try to turn it into
a political forum. One thing I like about clowns like you is your
condescending attitude, which is so easily exposed. You think
everyone who doesn't share your extremist views, is stupid, can't think
for themselves and that they must be getting told what to say.

He's only here to draw attention to himself, I'm done with him lameness.

Let him use seed and cutting only.

wrote in message
oups.com...
"Any decent veterinarian will explain to you how Scotts 4-step
program,

especially "Step 2" is believed to be extremely bad for pets. "

You mean like this vet from the Univ of Illinois, College of
Veterinary
Medicince? Here's what he has to say:


"However, for pet owners who want to spruce up their yards and
prefer
to use lawn care
products, reading the label and using the products properly is the
key
to keeping pets safe.
According to Dr. Petra Volmer, veterinarian and toxicologist at the
University of Illinois
College of Veterinary Medicine in Urbana, problems usually arise
only
when people apply
lawn care products incorrectly or when a pet is accidentally sprayed
or
allowed on a freshly
sprayed lawn too soon.

Most lawn care products fall into three categories: fertilizers,
insecticides, and herbicides. "If
you use these products correctly and read the label, most really do
not
cause a problem,"
says Dr. Volmer. "In general, most residential-use products have low
toxicity."


Or how about this from the good old ASPCA:

"4.What about pesticides and fertilizers that might be in the garage
or
tool shed?

Make sure your pets do not go on lawns or in gardens treated with
fertilizers, herbicides or insecticides until the time listed on the
label by the manufacturer. If you are uncertain about the usage of
any
product, contact the manufacturer for clarification before using it.
Always store pesticides, fertilizers and herbicides in areas that
are
inaccessible to your pets.

The most serious problems resulting from fertilizer ingestion in
pets
is usually due to the presence of heavy metals such as iron.
Ingestion
of large amounts of fertilizer could cause severe gastric upset and
possibly gastrointestinal obstruction.

The most dangerous forms of pesticides include: snail bait
containing
metaldehyde, fly bait containing methomyl, systemic insecticides
containing disyston or disulfaton, zinc phosphide containing mole or
gopher bait and most forms of rat poisons. When using pesticides
place
the products in areas that are totally inaccessible to your
companion
animals. Always store pesticides in secured areas."


Seems neither the veterinarian from the Univ of Illinois vet school,
nor the ASPCA think typical lawn products are "extremely bad" for
your
pet. Now don't get me wrong. I try to limit how much
herbicide/pesticide I use for a number of reasons. And I make sure
to
follow the label directions and keep pets off it for a reasonable
amount of time after application to minimize exposure. I exceed
the
recommended minimum times to stay off. That makes sense.
Alarmists
who think anyone who applies any chemical to a lawn is a "thug", in
my
view, are just as whacko as people who use these products
needlessly.

I guess we just disagree. The vets from Tufts Veterinary near Boston
are some of the tops in the country, and I trust them, as well as my
own personal vet (ha ha, no jokes please! )
Personally, my dog likes to roll in and eat grass, and I would never
jeopardize his health. As a new homeowner, I don't feel it's ethical
or appropriate to load more neurotoxins and chemicals into our
environment. Researchers pretty much agree that as a society, one of
the primary reasons we are getting sicker with higher incidences and
prevalences of many disorders, diseases, and health problems is
because of all the toxic chemicals and pollutants in our environs. As
a person with a neurological disorder myself, I can tell a significant
difference in my health (medical, physical, and mental/cognitive) when
I am exposed to chemicals. I don't even use Lysol in the house! Sure,
my grass with it's organic treatment does not look nearly as nice as
my neighbors who use Scotts'/ChemLawn or other services, but I feel
good about it and what I am *not* putting into the air/water/ground,
etc. A dear old friend of mine was a Ph.D. chemist, and boy did he
have some horror stories about what is really in some common
household/garden products! Thanks, but no thanks! I am not completely
"green", but I try. PS- I never called anyone a thug, and don't
consider myself an 'alarmist'. And trust me you don't want a clinicial
definition of "Whacko!"

Jo

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Heh, Doug, this is a lawn/garden newsgroup. Don't try to turn it into
a political forum. One thing I like about clowns like you is your
condescending attitude, which is so easily exposed. You think
everyone who doesn't share your extremist views, is stupid, can't think
for themselves and that they must be getting told what to say.

He's only here to draw attention to himself, I'm done with him lameness.

Let him use seed and cutting only.

Whatsa matter, boy? Don't want to see the pictures of the lawn you say is
impossible? :-) Might make you think about a career change?

"Doug Kanter" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Heh, Doug, this is a lawn/garden newsgroup. Don't try to turn it
into
a political forum. One thing I like about clowns like you is your
condescending attitude, which is so easily exposed. You think
everyone who doesn't share your extremist views, is stupid, can't
think for themselves and that they must be getting told what to say.

He's only here to draw attention to himself, I'm done with him
lameness.

Let him use seed and cutting only.

Whatsa matter, boy?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz shutup. hehe

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote:
"Steveo" wrote in message
...
wrote:
Heh, Doug, this is a lawn/garden newsgroup. Don't try to turn it
into
a political forum. One thing I like about clowns like you is your
condescending attitude, which is so easily exposed. You think
everyone who doesn't share your extremist views, is stupid, can't
think for themselves and that they must be getting told what to say.

He's only here to draw attention to himself, I'm done with him
lameness.

Let him use seed and cutting only.

Whatsa matter, boy?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz shutup. hehe

Jeez...you just turned down the best 5 minute education you'll ever run
across. Talk about ignorant.....

"Doug Kanter" wrote:
Jeez...you just turned down the best 5 minute education you'll ever run
across.

No, I'm here to answer real life lawncare questions. Cool season is my
specialty. You are only here to troll your stink bait, and I ain't
interested.

Talk about ignorant.....

**** off. -buh-bye-

"Steveo" wrote in message
...
"Doug Kanter" wrote:
Jeez...you just turned down the best 5 minute education you'll ever run
across.

No, I'm here to answer real life lawncare questions. Cool season is my
specialty. You are only here to troll your stink bait, and I ain't
interested.

Talk about ignorant.....

**** off. -buh-bye-

What a zero! You're here in this newsgroup, supposedly to offer advice, but
you don't know how to grow a lawn without chemicals? What the ****? You need
to get out of that six buck an hour job of yours, handling someone else's
hose.

You know Dougie boy, instead of hurling BS, since you're so
anti-chemical, why don't you tell people what exactly they have to do
to grow and maintain a lawn using only organic methods. In a previous
thread, you claimed all that was needed was seed and water. Is that
it? Why then are people using things like corn gluten meal as an
organic pre-emergent, at $50 for a bag that might cover 2500 sq ft?
That's about 10X the cost of a product like Scotts. Oh, wait, the
Scotts also has a lot more fertilizer with it, so it's even worse than
that! Or should they just skip the pre-emergent and get down on their
hands and knees and dig out the weeds? Ever try that on a 1/2 acre?

On 13-May-2005, wrote:

In a previous
thread, you claimed all that was needed was seed and water.

I don't really want to get sucked into this but to be fair Doug did say that
he used lime and fertilizer every couple years I believe.
Fertilizer, to my not really educated in gardening self, is simply adding
nitrogen, right? There must be reasonably "clean" ways of adding nitrogen
to the soil. After all the nitrogen cycle on earth has been going for
millions of years w/o producing toxic chemicals. Manure comes to mind.

but really... both of you must have better things to do than to get into
nasty arguments w/a total stranger.

wrote:
Fertilizer, to my not really educated in gardening self, is simply adding
nitrogen, right?

And potash, phosphorus, micro nutrients. Nitrogen is mostly for foliar
growth.

wrote in message
oups.com...
You know Dougie boy, instead of hurling BS, since you're so
anti-chemical, why don't you tell people what exactly they have to do
to grow and maintain a lawn using only organic methods. In a previous
thread, you claimed all that was needed was seed and water. Is that
it? Why then are people using things like corn gluten meal as an
organic pre-emergent, at $50 for a bag that might cover 2500 sq ft?
That's about 10X the cost of a product like Scotts. Oh, wait, the
Scotts also has a lot more fertilizer with it, so it's even worse than
that! Or should they just skip the pre-emergent and get down on their
hands and knees and dig out the weeds? Ever try that on a 1/2 acre?


I can only speak from experience. Occasional fertilizer, occasional lime, no
chemicals, proper mowing, not much watering. Overseeded a spot where grubs
moved in one year. BT took care of that, although not as quickly as your
methods might've done, but the lawn was heavily used by small kids, most of
whom we did not want to murder. In my previous home, the only thing we could
not conquer was bindweed. The NY DEC explained on a number of occasions that
to deal with that plant would've involved chemicals that nobody should be
using, along with blacking out the entire area for probably two seasons.

Any other questions?