I have trouble starting my rider after it sits a while. If I put my
10A charger on it for some 10 minutes, the mower starts fine.

I find no evidence of a drain on the battery.

The battery is relatively new, one year. I replaced earlier battery
with same problem.

The battery shows 10V when it won't start the mower.

The 10A charger causes my meter to show some 15V at the poles when
charging.

If I let it go for a while, then disconnect the charger, my meter
shows 11-12V at the battery poles,

The charger cuts back normally, but I would expect it to start at 10A,
then drop eventually to close to 0. But, it starts out at only 2-3A!
I am wondering if that is a give-away.

Any thoughts?

The old man

"geezer" wrote in message
...
I have trouble starting my rider after it sits a while. If I put my
10A charger on it for some 10 minutes, the mower starts fine.

I find no evidence of a drain on the battery.

The battery is relatively new, one year. I replaced earlier battery
with same problem.

The battery shows 10V when it won't start the mower.

The 10A charger causes my meter to show some 15V at the poles when
charging.

If I let it go for a while, then disconnect the charger, my meter
shows 11-12V at the battery poles,

The charger cuts back normally, but I would expect it to start at 10A,
then drop eventually to close to 0. But, it starts out at only 2-3A!
I am wondering if that is a give-away.

Any thoughts?

The first thought is why do you have to charge it ? Have you checked the
voltage with the motor running to see if the mower is charging it at over 13
volts ? Maybe closer to 14 or 15 volts.

If the battery is depleated, I would think it would also take much more than
the 2 ot 3 amps the chatger is putting out.

"I have trouble starting my rider after it sits a while. If I put my
10A charger on it for some 10 minutes, the mower starts fine.
I find no evidence of a drain on the battery. "

Did you put an amp meter on it and measure the drain with the mower
turned off? How long is awhile? With the mower off, the drain should
be zero.

"The battery is relatively new, one year. I replaced earlier battery
with same problem. "

What happens if you fully charge the battery with the charger, then let
it sit unused? If it goes dead then in a short time, either there is a
drain coming from a short somewhere or else it's a bad battery. You
can rule out the short with an amp meter.

You should get a battery tender and keep it on the battery for the
winter. If you do that, you can get many years out of a battery. If
it sits and is allowed to discharge over the winter, that is the kiss
of death.

"geezer" wrote in message
...
I have trouble starting my rider after it sits a while. If I put my
10A charger on it for some 10 minutes, the mower starts fine.

I find no evidence of a drain on the battery.

The battery is relatively new, one year. I replaced earlier battery
with same problem.

The battery shows 10V when it won't start the mower.

The 10A charger causes my meter to show some 15V at the poles when
charging.

If I let it go for a while, then disconnect the charger, my meter
shows 11-12V at the battery poles,

The charger cuts back normally, but I would expect it to start at 10A,
then drop eventually to close to 0. But, it starts out at only 2-3A!
I am wondering if that is a give-away.

Any thoughts?

The old man



Dejavu?

Make sure you always operate the mower at full throttle. (Chances are the
manual explains this necessity) Remember the engine rpm has nothing to do
with the speed of travel and although you may think running the engine
slower saves gas, if you don't run at full throttle it can't recharge the
battery properly. This also has the advantage of spinning the blade(s) at
top rpm which obviously yields a better cut.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 05:04:23 -0500, "JoeT" noway@today wrote:
Dejavu?

Make sure you always operate the mower at full throttle. (Chances are the
manual explains this necessity) Remember the engine rpm has nothing to do
with the speed of travel and although you may think running the engine
slower saves gas, if you don't run at full throttle it can't recharge the
battery properly. This also has the advantage of spinning the blade(s) at
top rpm which obviously yields a better cut.



The manual indeed does say exactly that. I do observe the difference
in cutting at full throttle.

I just figger that my charger should at least start out close to 10A,
but it doesn't. I know the charger is ok because I use it all the
time. I figger if the battery has insufficient juice to start the
mower, then it must need a 'full' charge - meaning 10A or close to it.
That doesn't seem to be the case however.

When idling at full throttle, my Vmeter shows about 13V at battery. I
figger that it should be more. No idea how to deal with a faulty
'charge' part - I have been told there is NO alternator.

I guess I'll have to dangle two wires from the battery posts that I
can connect my charger to every time I want to cut my grass.
This at least would be quicker than my having to gain access to the
battery every time. Wow!

Thanks for interest.

The old man

" I guess I'll have to dangle two wires from the battery posts that I
can connect my charger to every time I want to cut my grass.
This at least would be quicker than my having to gain access to the
battery every time. Wow!

Thanks for interest.

The old man

Look for something like this.

http://batterytender.com/default.php... 28e28762f707

here's one from sears
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...s+%26+ Cables

http://www.mawonline.com/batteryt.htm

The charging system on that mower should be something like this
http://www.j-thomas.com/Catalog/150.htm

Look at parts number
40 which is the charging coil.
41 which is the regulator
now that's on a 17 Kawasaki Engine about 75.00 in cost for both parts.

Of course before doing anything clean tighten all cables replace if damaged
or worn.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 12:18:53 GMT, "op4_camper"

http://batterytender.com/default.php... 28e28762f707

here's one from sears
http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/produ...s+%26+ Cables

http://www.mawonline.com/batteryt.htm

The charging system on that mower should be something like this
http://www.j-thomas.com/Catalog/150.htm



Thanks a meg. The battery tender certainly looks interesting. Any
idea what the 'cigarette adaptor' is for?

Thanks again.

G

"geezer" wrote in message
...
I have trouble starting my rider after it sits a while. If I put my
10A charger on it for some 10 minutes, the mower starts fine.

I find no evidence of a drain on the battery.

The battery is relatively new, one year. I replaced earlier battery
with same problem.

The battery shows 10V when it won't start the mower.

The 10A charger causes my meter to show some 15V at the poles when
charging.

If I let it go for a while, then disconnect the charger, my meter
shows 11-12V at the battery poles,

The charger cuts back normally, but I would expect it to start at 10A,
then drop eventually to close to 0. But, it starts out at only 2-3A!
I am wondering if that is a give-away.

Any thoughts?

It appears to be a dead cell in your battery. Each cell is 2 volts, and
when one poops out, you'll end up getting the problems you describe.

I assume you've checked the water, electrolyte level, cleaned the terminals
and surrounding area of the battery, and tested the mower for shorts.

In case you haven't done all this, first you can check for shorts by using
your meter. Connect one terminal of the battery to the mower. Then connect
one probe from the meter to the other terminal, and the other to the
disconnected battery terminal. With the mower OFF, you should get 0 volts.
If you get any steady reading, even if it's very small, there's a short
somewhere, possibly a dirty connection at the starter or ignition switch.

As for the rest, you should take the battery to a trusty automotive shop to
test and fill the fluids. While you probably can get away with just adding
distilled water, if needed, it's a good idea to check the electrolyte levels
when the water gets low enough to affect starting.

This just might get things working again. If the cell is dead for good,
it's time for a new battery.

Otherwise, usually a dead cell indicates the battery was discharged
completely, probably numerous times. As this is your second battery with
the same problem, it's possible there's either a short in your mower, or
your charger, which appears to be meant for large car batteries, while
smaller batteries are happier with low current trickle chargers. 10 amps is
a mighty beefy current to push in a small battery.

A good trickle charger can be hooked up continuously to your battery without
damage. A cheap crummy one can be hooked up for several hours without
damage, but can seriously damage your battery if it keeps trying to charge
it. A boat shop or RV supply store will have good trickle chargers aplenty.
You might find one at a very well stocked auto parts store, but I suggest a
boat shop, where you can ask the gurus there what's best.

You really shouldn't need one if the mower is charging properly, and it
sounds like it is. Still, it's a handy thing to have around, especially if
you don't use your mower during the winter months. Anyway, 13 volts is
plenty for charging this battery, while 15 volts is close to cooking it.
Your car doesn't even charge at 15 volts, more like 13.5 to 14.2 or there
abouts, and a car battery is a good deal larger. Usually, these things
charge using a dynamo, which is sort of like a built in generator. Performs
the same basic function as an alternator, but not quite the same way, and
not nearly as powerful, which, as I mentioned, is a GOOD thing.

So, check for shorts, check the battery fluids, and if none of this stuff
works, you'll probably have to take your mower in to have it checked out, or
do a makeshift dangling wires job so you can 'jump' your mower.

I very strongly DON'T recommend the latter. If you accidentally cause a
short, you'll be extremely fortunate to be left with melted wires all
through your mower. If you happen to be on Fate's sh_t list, you could end
up with a fire and/or 3rd degree burns. It would take less than a second
for a shorted wire to get red hot with even that smallish battery, and if
your leg just happens to be in contact with it, the doctors will be
scrubbing your leg with a hard bristle brush to get pieces of sock, jeans,
rubber insulation, and melted copper out of your blackened flesh, all in all
very unpleasant business. On the brighter side, you'll learn enough about
burn treatment to keep your friends and family entertained, as well as
nauseous, for hours on end.

It's definitely cheaper, easier, and less painful to find the problem and
fix it properly.

Pagan

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:53:23 -0700, "Pagan"
wrote:

It appears to be a dead cell in your battery. Each cell is 2 volts, and
when one poops out, you'll end up getting the problems you describe.

I assume you've checked the water, electrolyte level, cleaned the terminals
and surrounding area of the battery, and tested the mower for shorts.

In case you haven't done all this, first you can check for shorts by using
your meter. Connect one terminal of the battery to the mower. Then connect
one probe from the meter to the other terminal, and the other to the
disconnected battery terminal. With the mower OFF, you should get 0 volts.
If you get any steady reading, even if it's very small, there's a short
somewhere, possibly a dirty connection at the starter or ignition switch.

As for the rest, you should take the battery to a trusty automotive shop to
test and fill the fluids. While you probably can get away with just adding
distilled water, if needed, it's a good idea to check the electrolyte levels
when the water gets low enough to affect starting.


This just might get things working again. If the cell is dead for good,
it's time for a new battery.

Otherwise, usually a dead cell indicates the battery was discharged
completely, probably numerous times. As this is your second battery with
the same problem, it's possible there's either a short in your mower, or
your charger, which appears to be meant for large car batteries, while
smaller batteries are happier with low current trickle chargers. 10 amps is
a mighty beefy current to push in a small battery.

A good trickle charger can be hooked up continuously to your battery without
damage. A cheap crummy one can be hooked up for several hours without
damage, but can seriously damage your battery if it keeps trying to charge
it. A boat shop or RV supply store will have good trickle chargers aplenty.
You might find one at a very well stocked auto parts store, but I suggest a
boat shop, where you can ask the gurus there what's best.

You really shouldn't need one if the mower is charging properly, and it
sounds like it is. Still, it's a handy thing to have around, especially if
you don't use your mower during the winter months. Anyway, 13 volts is
plenty for charging this battery, while 15 volts is close to cooking it.
Your car doesn't even charge at 15 volts, more like 13.5 to 14.2 or there
abouts, and a car battery is a good deal larger. Usually, these things
charge using a dynamo, which is sort of like a built in generator. Performs
the same basic function as an alternator, but not quite the same way, and
not nearly as powerful, which, as I mentioned, is a GOOD thing.

So, check for shorts, check the battery fluids, and if none of this stuff
works, you'll probably have to take your mower in to have it checked out, or
do a makeshift dangling wires job so you can 'jump' your mower.

I very strongly DON'T recommend the latter. If you accidentally cause a
short, you'll be extremely fortunate to be left with melted wires all
through your mower. If you happen to be on Fate's sh_t list, you could end
up with a fire and/or 3rd degree burns. It would take less than a second
for a shorted wire to get red hot with even that smallish battery, and if
your leg just happens to be in contact with it, the doctors will be
scrubbing your leg with a hard bristle brush to get pieces of sock, jeans,
rubber insulation, and melted copper out of your blackened flesh, all in all
very unpleasant business. On the brighter side, you'll learn enough about
burn treatment to keep your friends and family entertained, as well as
nauseous, for hours on end.

It's definitely cheaper, easier, and less painful to find the problem and
fix it properly.

Pagan

Thanks for tips.

My battery is one of those maintenance-free ones, so I cannot check
electrolyte levels. I'll check the rest, though.

G

"geezer" wrote in message
...
snip
My battery is one of those maintenance-free ones, so I cannot check
electrolyte levels. I'll check the rest, though.

I've never been too wild about those. Maybe it's just me, but I've seen
maintenance free batteries fail much more often than the older types.

Pagan

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:53:23 -0700, "Pagan"
wrote:

In case you haven't done all this, first you can check for shorts by using
your meter. Connect one terminal of the battery to the mower. Then connect
one probe from the meter to the other terminal, and the other to the
disconnected battery terminal. With the mower OFF, you should get 0 volts.
If you get any steady reading, even if it's very small, there's a short
somewhere, possibly a dirty connection at the starter or ignition switch.



You say 'Then connect one probe from the meter to the other terminal,
and the other to the disconnected battery terminal'. I assume you
mean 'Then connect one probe from the meter to the other MOWER
terminal, and the other to the disconnected battery terminal'.

Assuming I am right - I did that and voila! I get a meter reading of
3V give or take! Since the starter connections and ignition switch
connections are all original (some 10Y) I certainly will next take a
look there.

I'll let you know and thanks!

BTW, an overnight charge with my 10A charger (that shows only about 1A
of charging) produced a meter reading across the isolated battery
terminals of only 11V. Should be 12V+ I'm thinking.



G

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:53:23 -0700, "Pagan"
wrote:

In case you haven't done all this, first you can check for shorts by using
your meter. Connect one terminal of the battery to the mower. Then connect
one probe from the meter to the other terminal, and the other to the
disconnected battery terminal. With the mower OFF, you should get 0 volts.
If you get any steady reading, even if it's very small, there's a short
somewhere, possibly a dirty connection at the starter or ignition switch.


As I said I showed voltage following the above. I next disconnect the
headlights because that was simple to do. No change. Next I removed
the ignition switch (somewhat difficult) and unplugged the wiring from
it entirely. No change. Still voltage shows. I figure the starter
is not involved since the ignition wires were disconnected thereby
disconnecting the starter. Right?

Next I will check the wires from the battery to whatever.

Thanks.

On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:53:23 -0700, "Pagan"
wrote:



So, check for shorts, check the battery fluids, and if none of this stuff
works, you'll probably have to take your mower in to have it checked out, or
do a makeshift dangling wires job so you can 'jump' your mower.


I cut my lawn this PM. Before I started, the voltage across the
battery poles read some 10V.

When I finished it was the same. I disconnected the one battery lead
and did as discussed earlier and surprisingly discovered that my drain
is now 7V! No wonder the battery goes dead on me.

I have left the battery disconnected.

G

"geezer" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Jun 2005 17:53:23 -0700, "Pagan"
wrote:



So, check for shorts, check the battery fluids, and if none of this stuff
works, you'll probably have to take your mower in to have it checked out,
or
do a makeshift dangling wires job so you can 'jump' your mower.


I cut my lawn this PM. Before I started, the voltage across the
battery poles read some 10V.

When I finished it was the same. I disconnected the one battery lead
and did as discussed earlier and surprisingly discovered that my drain
is now 7V! No wonder the battery goes dead on me.

I have left the battery disconnected.

That's strange. With the ignition disconnected, you certainly should be
getting zero volts. Sounds like there's a short either in the main cables
or in your starter.

I don't know the specific setup with your mower, but with automotive
engines, the positive leads of the battery are connected to both the starter
and the ignition. The starter has a big, beefy wire going to it, while the
ignition has the scrawny one. When you start your car, the ignition switch
sends current to the solenoid on the starter, which allows current to go
through the beefy wire directly into the motor.

If your mower does the same, there could be a problem with your starter
and/or solenoid. On a real old motor, there could be years of dirt, dust,
grass, goop and crud jiggling around in there, which may explain the
different readings.

Really the only way to know for sure is to follow the battery cables through
the mower, disconnecting wires and gadgets until you find what's sucking the
life out of your battery. Instead of jumping to a likely culprit, it's best
to follow the cables, starting from the disconnected battery terminal and
moving towards (electrically speaking) the terminal connected to the
battery.

Keep in mind that while it's rare to have more than one short in a case like
this, it's not impossible. If you come across any significant voltage
drops, but still haven't reached zero, you might as well keep going, since
your already in there.

If you can't seem to find the problem, ask a friend or a shop to look into
it. I've found that I'll sometimes miss a problem, especially when it's
sitting right there in front of my face, while I'm off looking for
relatively exotic things. Then I get mad at myself, call myself names, hurt
my feelings, and quit talking to myself until I'm forgiven, which takes
forever, since it feels sometimes I can read my mind.

If the warranty on the battery is still good, you might want to try getting
it replaced. I'm pretty sure it's a goner. An overnight charging,
especially with your brutish charger, should easily yield a good 12 volts.
Most likely one of the cells in the battery got a kick of reversed charge
when your battery was close to drained, ruining that cell. The fact that
it's over 10 volts means the remaining 5 cells are well overcharged. A good
trickle charger is looking even better right now. You'd get the same
results with an overnight charge, without the overcharging.

Pagan

On Mon, 13 Jun 2005 15:25:06 -0700, "Pagan"
wrote:


That's strange. With the ignition disconnected, you certainly should be
getting zero volts. Sounds like there's a short either in the main cables
or in your starter.

I don't know the specific setup with your mower, but with automotive
engines, the positive leads of the battery are connected to both the starter
and the ignition. The starter has a big, beefy wire going to it, while the
ignition has the scrawny one. When you start your car, the ignition switch
sends current to the solenoid on the starter, which allows current to go
through the beefy wire directly into the motor.

If your mower does the same, there could be a problem with your starter
and/or solenoid. On a real old motor, there could be years of dirt, dust,
grass, goop and crud jiggling around in there, which may explain the
different readings.

Really the only way to know for sure is to follow the battery cables through
the mower, disconnecting wires and gadgets until you find what's sucking the
life out of your battery. Instead of jumping to a likely culprit, it's best
to follow the cables, starting from the disconnected battery terminal and
moving towards (electrically speaking) the terminal connected to the
battery.

Keep in mind that while it's rare to have more than one short in a case like
this, it's not impossible. If you come across any significant voltage
drops, but still haven't reached zero, you might as well keep going, since
your already in there.

If you can't seem to find the problem, ask a friend or a shop to look into
it. I've found that I'll sometimes miss a problem, especially when it's
sitting right there in front of my face, while I'm off looking for
relatively exotic things. Then I get mad at myself, call myself names, hurt
my feelings, and quit talking to myself until I'm forgiven, which takes
forever, since it feels sometimes I can read my mind.

If the warranty on the battery is still good, you might want to try getting
it replaced. I'm pretty sure it's a goner. An overnight charging,
especially with your brutish charger, should easily yield a good 12 volts.
Most likely one of the cells in the battery got a kick of reversed charge
when your battery was close to drained, ruining that cell. The fact that
it's over 10 volts means the remaining 5 cells are well overcharged. A good
trickle charger is looking even better right now. You'd get the same
results with an overnight charge, without the overcharging.

Pagan



I am no longer 'in there' - since I re-assembled the monster before I
cut my grass today. The mower is sitting there with the battery
disconnected.

As it happens, I have to go out of town Thursday for a week or so.
Got a marriage and a graduation to go to - popular doings this time of
year. When I return I think I will send for the 'battery tender' I
was told about. Seems like the thing to have. I may even buy a new
Lowe's battery since the battery I have seems likely have a dead
cell.

Then I will remove the front cowling to expose the starter/moter etc,
and go from there. Seems likely a wire is shorted out somewhere.

See you then okay? I really appreciate your helps.

G