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  #16   Report Post  
Old 01-05-2003, 05:44 PM
Anne Lurie
 
Posts: n/a
Default Which trees held up the best?

Well, Brad, I personally think there must be something to this climactic
change thing -- after all, the world's largest supercomputer is working on
weather, not military hardware.

Here's a link to the Earth Simulator:

http://www.es.jamstec.go.jp/esc/eng/outline.html

Anne Lurie
NE Raleigh





"Brad Heidinger" wrote in message
...
The very fact that so many of
these survived Hazel and Fran, plus all the smaller ice storms,
indicates it is just one more example of the changing world climate
and the more severe weather events happening lately.


What are the changing world climates? I am curious. I haven't read any
concrete evidence of any changing climates.

Maybe the hurricanes weakened the structural integrity of the trees and
the ice storm was the kicker? Ice storms are frequent in the Piedmont.
This one happened to be a more severe than others in recent years. I think
it is unfair to blame industry and fuel consumption on local climatic
events. There have been severe climatic occurrences before people
inhabited the earth. I don't think SUV owners are the culprit to an ice
storm or a hurricane. Here are a few facts:


There have been fewer hurricanes during the 20th century.

Glaciers are receding in eight mountain ranges. Advancing in three
mountain ranges.

Arctic regions are actually cooling since 1940's.

Models predict a warming of about 0.35 C per decade in the mid
troposphere. Two satellites (MSU and TOVS) and radiosondes show a cooling,
thus falsifying the IPCC models.

I don't mean to be curt, I just deal in facts. (it's my nature...get
it...nature) : )

Brad





  #17   Report Post  
Old 01-05-2003, 05:44 PM
brad heidinger
 
Posts: n/a
Default Which trees held up the best?

Hi Scott,

I have to call you on citing NOVA as a balanced news source. NOVA's programs are
packed to the brim with scientists that are considered to be "alarmists" by the
rest of the scientific community. I wouldn't put too much faith into their data.

I 'm not arguing that humans don't change the climate to a certain extent, but
what is debatable is the actual degree of impact. Current data suggests that is
much less than what was originally believed.

As an aside, I don't put any faith in these predictive models b/c they haven't
been proven. They don't agree with any of the actual observations. Maybe they
will improve with time, until they do I will live life as normal. Now, I don't
pour oil into the sewer, nor do I drive a 10 mpg diesel SUV. But I am not
rushing out to buy a solar powered home that is equipped with wind powered,
waterless toilets either.

My main point is that by choosing to blame an ice storm, hurricane, or heat wave
on humans isn't justified. (not yet at least) I will be the first one to say I
was wrong if, I am proven wrong. I take my hat off to people like you that are
fighting hard to "save" our Mother Earth. Hey, it is to be commendable. There is
no denying that. There are much worse things you could be doing, like being a
Yankee's fan.

Regards,

Dr. Brad Heidinger, Ph.D.

nospam.mindspring.com wrote:

Brad,

You may deal in "Facts," but the bottom line is that you would have to be a
fool not to think that our planet is affected by our presence...specifically
our use of fossil fuels, building of immence concrete and asphalt cities and
roads, clearing of forests at a rate of which is almost incomprehensible and
other large impacting wonders of the Human species. I myself, do not deal in
facts, but I recall watching a NOVA special about this very topic...it was
very sombering. It played both sides of the street, as they usually do, and
the data supported the fact that the climate IS changing! I think an analogy
would help here...

You have a house invested with 3.5 billion termites...the house is still
standing and appears just fine. But, wait a few years! By then it will be
too late...as it will be for us! It would be safer to err on the side of
caution, and act a little responsible for the only home we have. No, I'm not
talking about extermination, the analogy is over.

It just irks me to hear someone state that the Earth is not experienceing a
climactic change, when the facts, albeit not empiricaly known, seem to state
otherwise.

Scott

"Brad Heidinger" wrote in message
...
The very fact that so many of
these survived Hazel and Fran, plus all the smaller ice storms,
indicates it is just one more example of the changing world climate
and the more severe weather events happening lately.


What are the changing world climates? I am curious. I haven't read any
concrete evidence of any changing climates.

Maybe the hurricanes weakened the structural integrity of the trees and
the ice storm was the kicker? Ice storms are frequent in the Piedmont.
This one happened to be a more severe than others in recent years. I think
it is unfair to blame industry and fuel consumption on local climatic
events. There have been severe climatic occurrences before people
inhabited the earth. I don't think SUV owners are the culprit to an ice
storm or a hurricane. Here are a few facts:


There have been fewer hurricanes during the 20th century.

Glaciers are receding in eight mountain ranges. Advancing in three
mountain ranges.

Arctic regions are actually cooling since 1940's.

Models predict a warming of about 0.35 C per decade in the mid
troposphere. Two satellites (MSU and TOVS) and radiosondes show a cooling,
thus falsifying the IPCC models.

I don't mean to be curt, I just deal in facts. (it's my nature...get
it...nature) : )

Brad



  #18   Report Post  
Old 01-05-2003, 05:44 PM
Tom Gauldin
 
Posts: n/a
Default Which trees held up the best?

That was a wonderful response, and I totally agree.
--

Tom Gauldin, Las Vegas NV
NEW EMAIL
NEW PHONE (702) 263-8804 voice/fax

"brad heidinger" wrote in message
...
Hi Scott,

I have to call you on citing NOVA as a balanced news source. NOVA's

programs are
packed to the brim with scientists that are considered to be "alarmists"

by the
rest of the scientific community. I wouldn't put too much faith into their

data.

I 'm not arguing that humans don't change the climate to a certain extent,

but
what is debatable is the actual degree of impact. Current data suggests

that is
much less than what was originally believed.

As an aside, I don't put any faith in these predictive models b/c they

haven't
been proven. They don't agree with any of the actual observations. Maybe

they
will improve with time, until they do I will live life as normal. Now, I

don't
pour oil into the sewer, nor do I drive a 10 mpg diesel SUV. But I am not
rushing out to buy a solar powered home that is equipped with wind

powered,
waterless toilets either.

My main point is that by choosing to blame an ice storm, hurricane, or

heat wave
on humans isn't justified. (not yet at least) I will be the first one to

say I
was wrong if, I am proven wrong. I take my hat off to people like you that

are
fighting hard to "save" our Mother Earth. Hey, it is to be commendable.

There is
no denying that. There are much worse things you could be doing, like

being a
Yankee's fan.

Regards,

Dr. Brad Heidinger, Ph.D.

nospam.mindspring.com wrote:

Brad,

You may deal in "Facts," but the bottom line is that you would have to

be a
fool not to think that our planet is affected by our

presence...specifically
our use of fossil fuels, building of immence concrete and asphalt cities

and
roads, clearing of forests at a rate of which is almost incomprehensible

and
other large impacting wonders of the Human species. I myself, do not

deal in
facts, but I recall watching a NOVA special about this very topic...it

was
very sombering. It played both sides of the street, as they usually do,

and
the data supported the fact that the climate IS changing! I think an

analogy
would help here...

You have a house invested with 3.5 billion termites...the house is still
standing and appears just fine. But, wait a few years! By then it will

be
too late...as it will be for us! It would be safer to err on the side of
caution, and act a little responsible for the only home we have. No, I'm

not
talking about extermination, the analogy is over.

It just irks me to hear someone state that the Earth is not

experienceing a
climactic change, when the facts, albeit not empiricaly known, seem to

state
otherwise.

Scott

"Brad Heidinger" wrote in message
...
The very fact that so many of
these survived Hazel and Fran, plus all the smaller ice storms,
indicates it is just one more example of the changing world climate
and the more severe weather events happening lately.


What are the changing world climates? I am curious. I haven't read any
concrete evidence of any changing climates.

Maybe the hurricanes weakened the structural integrity of the trees

and
the ice storm was the kicker? Ice storms are frequent in the Piedmont.
This one happened to be a more severe than others in recent years. I

think
it is unfair to blame industry and fuel consumption on local climatic
events. There have been severe climatic occurrences before people
inhabited the earth. I don't think SUV owners are the culprit to an

ice
storm or a hurricane. Here are a few facts:


There have been fewer hurricanes during the 20th century.

Glaciers are receding in eight mountain ranges. Advancing in three
mountain ranges.

Arctic regions are actually cooling since 1940's.

Models predict a warming of about 0.35 C per decade in the mid
troposphere. Two satellites (MSU and TOVS) and radiosondes show a

cooling,
thus falsifying the IPCC models.

I don't mean to be curt, I just deal in facts. (it's my nature...get
it...nature) : )

Brad





  #19   Report Post  
Old 01-05-2003, 05:44 PM
David
 
Posts: n/a
Default Which trees held up the best?

What are the changing world climates? I am curious. I haven't read any
concrete evidence of any changing climates.


Not only is global warming occurring, now even the effects of it on
living systems are quantifiable. (see New York Times article, Global
Warming Found to Displace Species Jan 2, 2003)

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmp...splace_species

Of course, The Times, the journal Nature, and Stanford U, et al.,
might all be wrong, like that tabloid TV show Nova. Seriously, there
is no longer any question that warming is occurring, the only question
is how much is caused by human activity, and on that, the broad,
informed consensus opinion is "quite a large portion."

David (formerly of zone 7b, now approaching 8)


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