"Baine Carruthers" wrote

| As for the broccoli, I think too much nitrogen will create lots
of foliage
| at the expense of your flowers.

If there's too much nitrogen is there anything I can use to
counteract it? Or is it just too late for this crop?
Thanks,
Jeny

Dear Jeny:

Moderately heavy watering may leach off some of the excess nitrogen. I
would consider this to be an "experimental" treatment (not something I have
tried). Also, clean sawdust, when it starts to break down, uses some
nitrogen to get started decaying, so this might bring down your N levels
temporarily. This is also an experimental treatment. But, except for
possible overwatering (depending on your soil's drainage) these suggestions
should be inexpensive and not dangerous.

Do not get sawdust from sawing particle board, plywood, or creosoted or
other treated woods. You don't want to add unspecified poisons to a food
crop! Avoid all types of adhesives and wood treatments.

Tom Ellison


"Raleighgirl" wrote in message
. com...

"Baine Carruthers" wrote

| As for the broccoli, I think too much nitrogen will create lots
of foliage
| at the expense of your flowers.

If there's too much nitrogen is there anything I can use to
counteract it? Or is it just too late for this crop?
Thanks,
Jeny

"Tom Ellison" wrote in message
...
| Dear Jeny:
|
| Moderately heavy watering may leach off some of the excess
nitrogen. I
| would consider this to be an "experimental" treatment (not
something I have
| tried). Also, clean sawdust, when it starts to break down,
uses some
| nitrogen to get started decaying, so this might bring down your
N levels
| temporarily. This is also an experimental treatment. But,
except for
| possible overwatering (depending on your soil's drainage) these
suggestions
| should be inexpensive and not dangerous.
|
| Do not get sawdust from sawing particle board, plywood, or
creosoted or
| other treated woods. You don't want to add unspecified poisons
to a food
| crop! Avoid all types of adhesives and wood treatments.
|
| Tom Ellison
|
|
Ok, we'll try it! Thanks Tom.

Dear Jeny:

I woke up thinking about sawdust. Just on the off chance, I recommend you
avoid walnut sawdust. It seems black walnut (juglans nigra) produces a
substance that inhibits growth of other plants. Sort of biological warfare.
I don't recall hearing this is true of other walnut species, however. Just
not sure. Anyway, there's not likely that much walnut being sawn. Also, I
believe it is the roots that exude the substance, so there may be much less
in the wood or the leaves. I don't know if this survives curing the wood.
I just avoid everything walnut.

Another very small issue. If you have excess acid in your soil and use oak
sawdust, which contains tannin (adds acid to the soil) you may want to add a
small amount of lime. This is almost a vanishingly small issue.

Tom Ellison


"Raleighgirl" wrote in message
. com...

"Tom Ellison" wrote in message
...
| Dear Jeny:
|
| Moderately heavy watering may leach off some of the excess
nitrogen. I
| would consider this to be an "experimental" treatment (not
something I have
| tried). Also, clean sawdust, when it starts to break down,
uses some
| nitrogen to get started decaying, so this might bring down your
N levels
| temporarily. This is also an experimental treatment. But,
except for
| possible overwatering (depending on your soil's drainage) these
suggestions
| should be inexpensive and not dangerous.
|
| Do not get sawdust from sawing particle board, plywood, or
creosoted or
| other treated woods. You don't want to add unspecified poisons
to a food
| crop! Avoid all types of adhesives and wood treatments.
|
| Tom Ellison
|
|
Ok, we'll try it! Thanks Tom.

In article , Tom Ellison wrote:
Dear Jeny:

I woke up thinking about sawdust. Just on the off chance, I recommend you
avoid walnut sawdust. It seems black walnut (juglans nigra) produces a
substance that inhibits growth of other plants. Sort of biological warfare.
I don't recall hearing this is true of other walnut species, however. Just
not sure. Anyway, there's not likely that much walnut being sawn. Also, I
believe it is the roots that exude the substance, so there may be much less
in the wood or the leaves. I don't know if this survives curing the wood.
I just avoid everything walnut.

Another very small issue. If you have excess acid in your soil and use oak
sawdust, which contains tannin (adds acid to the soil) you may want to add a
small amount of lime. This is almost a vanishingly small issue.

Tom Ellison

I don't think the sawdust will help since the nitrogen is already being
taken up by the roots and the sawdust can't get there without deep
tilling which would damage the roots.

Watering might help, but you also stand the chance of drowning the
plants. I sidedressed to early with nitrogen one year and the okra was
head tall before it put on the first bloom. Since then I make a point
of not side dressing until after the plant is putting on blooms.

The only exception is corn. I try to side dress it with nitrogen when
it is between 6 and 12 inches tall. It seems to encourage early root
growth and makes it withstand drought better. You should always cover
nitrogen with dirt to keep from losing so much back to the air.


"Raleighgirl" wrote in message
. com...

"Tom Ellison" wrote in message
...
| Dear Jeny:
|
| Moderately heavy watering may leach off some of the excess
nitrogen. I
| would consider this to be an "experimental" treatment (not
something I have
| tried). Also, clean sawdust, when it starts to break down,
uses some
| nitrogen to get started decaying, so this might bring down your
N levels
| temporarily. This is also an experimental treatment. But,
except for
| possible overwatering (depending on your soil's drainage) these
suggestions
| should be inexpensive and not dangerous.
|
| Do not get sawdust from sawing particle board, plywood, or
creosoted or
| other treated woods. You don't want to add unspecified poisons
to a food
| crop! Avoid all types of adhesives and wood treatments.
|
| Tom Ellison
|
|
Ok, we'll try it! Thanks Tom.






--
Wes Dukes (wdukesNOatSPAMpoboxdotcom)

I expect you may be largely correct, but I'll make a small rebuttal just for
the sake of disseminating information.

First, I don't think of soil as being a solid, immobile medium. The kind of
organisms involved in decay are mobile, so the nitrogen reduction effect may
involve more volume of soil than just that at the surface of the sawdust
particles.

Secondly, the nitrogen bound up in the sawdust becomes slowly available in
future months and years. This is a good thing. Lots of nitrogen all at
once is a bad thing. We've all heard of burning crops and lawns with
soluble nitrogen. What we don't hear about is the devastation of micro
flora and fauna in the soil - earthworms for example.

I find that weeding is going to disturb some of the plants' roots, whether
rogueing or cultivation. A shallow cultivation with sawdust added is going
to reduce the upper level nitrogen concentration temporarily, then release
in slowly in future. This is a good thing, but probably a minor
contribution to any immediate solution of the problem.

I do expect that watering is the number 1 remedy in this situation, but
especially if the soil is well drained.

Tom Ellison

wrote in message
...
In article , Tom Ellison wrote:
Dear Jeny:

I woke up thinking about sawdust. Just on the off chance, I recommend
you
avoid walnut sawdust. It seems black walnut (juglans nigra) produces a
substance that inhibits growth of other plants. Sort of biological
warfare.
I don't recall hearing this is true of other walnut species, however.
Just
not sure. Anyway, there's not likely that much walnut being sawn.
Also, I
believe it is the roots that exude the substance, so there may be much
less
in the wood or the leaves. I don't know if this survives curing the
wood.
I just avoid everything walnut.

Another very small issue. If you have excess acid in your soil and use
oak
sawdust, which contains tannin (adds acid to the soil) you may want to
add a
small amount of lime. This is almost a vanishingly small issue.

Tom Ellison

I don't think the sawdust will help since the nitrogen is already being
taken up by the roots and the sawdust can't get there without deep
tilling which would damage the roots.

Watering might help, but you also stand the chance of drowning the
plants. I sidedressed to early with nitrogen one year and the okra was
head tall before it put on the first bloom. Since then I make a point
of not side dressing until after the plant is putting on blooms.

The only exception is corn. I try to side dress it with nitrogen when
it is between 6 and 12 inches tall. It seems to encourage early root
growth and makes it withstand drought better. You should always cover
nitrogen with dirt to keep from losing so much back to the air.


"Raleighgirl" wrote in message
. com...

"Tom Ellison" wrote in message
...
| Dear Jeny:
|
| Moderately heavy watering may leach off some of the excess
nitrogen. I
| would consider this to be an "experimental" treatment (not
something I have
| tried). Also, clean sawdust, when it starts to break down,
uses some
| nitrogen to get started decaying, so this might bring down your
N levels
| temporarily. This is also an experimental treatment. But,
except for
| possible overwatering (depending on your soil's drainage) these
suggestions
| should be inexpensive and not dangerous.
|
| Do not get sawdust from sawing particle board, plywood, or
creosoted or
| other treated woods. You don't want to add unspecified poisons
to a food
| crop! Avoid all types of adhesives and wood treatments.
|
| Tom Ellison
|
|
Ok, we'll try it! Thanks Tom.






--
Wes Dukes (wdukesNOatSPAMpoboxdotcom)

You say you have huge leaves and yet no broccili to eat.I grow it every year
and have had that happen many times to me as well.In my case its what I
guess is the cabbage worm.You may not even see them on the plant of broccili
they don't seem to like broccili leaves and may even be toxic to them but
they love the broccili head.The culprit for me is the little white
butterfly.They lay eggs on the leaves and the worm hatches about three days
latter.This worm loves collard leaves,cabage leaves,brussel sprout leaves
and will strip the plant bare of leaves in less than a week but I never see
them on the broccili leaf just the broccili head or what lillte fragment of
a head i could find.I've never had broccili not to form a head because of
heavy nitrogen the faster they grow the bigger the head unlike tomatoes
going to weed (getting huge with few tomatoes)Broccili loves nitrogen.If it
could be the worm eatting your broccili one way to check if its not to late
and washed off is to look where the head should form, if you see any black
sludge or very small roundish black balls or black trails, if so then it
proabally was the worm that got the head.The black you would see is whats
left of the worm eatting the broccili(worm poop).But its not to late to have
good side shoots if you can keep away the white butterfly.I use deer net it
lets lots of light through yet the mesh is small enough to keep out the
butterfly.Put a steak at each corner of the broccili patch about two to
three feet high and drape the net over it, weigh the edges down with
something heavy I use rocks to keep the butterfly from going under.,Any
place it can find to get in it will.This creature is relentless.They will
circle the net all day trying.Deer net can be found at either lowes or home
depot,and is fairly inexpensive $13 for a 7ft wide by 100ft long and will
last for at least ten years if you roll it up and store in the winter.My
broccili patch needs double that width so I overlap two of them and use
twist ties or clothes pins to hold together.Leave no cracks a two inch lap
and a tie or pin every foot will do.Now I enjoy beautiful clean broccili and
don,t even spray poisions anymore.If your broccili is strong and healthy you
can still get more in volume of side shoots than the head would have
formed.I leave my broccili growing all winter,on the warmer days it
continues making side shoots and the freeze does not hurt it at all.Sides
shoots can freeze solid and continue growing yet still retain flavor and not
be woody or tough.In the spring when they begin to seed or bloom I cut them
down and throw into the compost.