starting from scratch
 

now that it's winter that gives me the chance to plan the transformation of my
backyard from a dirtpit into an actual garden. when we moved here, the backyard
was a swampy mess that sloped dangerously. that was fixed last year--when the
guys were looking to dump dirt from the american tobacco project (in durham)
they were invited to dump it in my backyard for free. (otherwise they would
have had to pay to dump it somewhere.) we smoothed out the dirt with a backhoe.
there's no way i could have afforded to buy that much dirt! mind you, the dirt
is low quality, but that's OK. at least my backyard is level now.

we're REAL low on funds so we'll have to be clever. i plan to develop the yard
in stages--an area for birds/butterflies, a tropical area, a small grassy area,
a small ground-level deck, a series of raised beds for fruits/vegetables, and a
pond.

anybody else out there with ambitious plans for their yards? maybe we can share
ideas. :)

pat

Pat,

I recommend Will Cook's website for ideas to get you started with the
birds/butterflies area:
http://www.duke.edu/~cwcook/

Anne Lurie
NE Raleigh


"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
now that it's winter that gives me the chance to plan the transformation
of my
backyard from a dirtpit into an actual garden. when we moved here, the
backyard
was a swampy mess that sloped dangerously. that was fixed last year--when
the
guys were looking to dump dirt from the american tobacco project (in
durham)
they were invited to dump it in my backyard for free. (otherwise they
would
have had to pay to dump it somewhere.) we smoothed out the dirt with a
backhoe.
there's no way i could have afforded to buy that much dirt! mind you, the
dirt
is low quality, but that's OK. at least my backyard is level now.

we're REAL low on funds so we'll have to be clever. i plan to develop the
yard
in stages--an area for birds/butterflies, a tropical area, a small grassy
area,
a small ground-level deck, a series of raised beds for fruits/vegetables,
and a
pond.

anybody else out there with ambitious plans for their yards? maybe we can
share
ideas. :)

pat

The first thing I would do, is decide what I wanted to grow. Then I would
find out what each of these items needed from you (water, compost, sunshine,
acid or non acid soil). Then I would draw a graph of the proposed garden,
measure it, and then put that info on the graph. Find out how far apart
each of the items you want to grow need to be planted, and how many of each
you need for your family. Start putting them in your graph according to
their needs. Have a pH test of your soil completed to see how acidic it is.
Usually it is pretty hard to grow things in a soil that doesn't meet their
acid needs. It is even harder to make and keep it more acidic than nature
has made it. I grew blueberries in AR, but lost them all in KS.
Blackberries taste great in AR, but aren't sweet here. I suggest matching
your soils pH.

If you want asparagus, artichokes, garlic, or fruit trees. It would best
plant them in permanent a place, where they get full sun. I would go to our
College extension office and find out what varieties of each grow best in
your climate, and then try to find those.

It sounds like a lot of work, but it will save you failure and
disappointment later. That is a project for the winter months and it would
keep you in the mood until time to put them in.

Dwayne


"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
pat

dwayne, great suggestions! i definitely plan to do much of the "structural"
stuff this winter. because the dirt that was trucked in is so bad, i'm going to
build raised beds for my fruits and veggies and add composted manure and good
topsoil. i'm hoping that the "new" pressure-treated wood is OK. for the
tropical garden, bird/butterfly garden, dwarf fruit tree mini-orchard, etc i'll
have to improve the soil area by area. i can't afford to bring in good topsoil
and compost for the entire yard at one time.

i've actually planned the layout although i haven't committed it to a grid yet.
i should probably do that. i have also compiled a list of all the plants i want
to get--many i'll start from seeds.

thanks again for the great suggestions!

pat

On 30 Dec 2004 17:42:53 GMT in Patskywriter wrote:

Just a few nits, but.
1) Your keyboard has a shift key. Use it to capitalize words that
are supposed to be capitalized. Do not use the caps lock key.
2) Keep your lines to ~72 characters in length so that followups
can quote what you write.
3) You are posting in a medium that assumes a monospaced font. Put
two spaces after punctuation marks such as ., !, ?, and :.
dwayne, great suggestions! i definitely plan to do much of the "structural"
stuff this winter. because the dirt that was trucked in is so bad, i'm going to
build raised beds for my fruits and veggies and add composted manure and good
topsoil. i'm hoping that the "new" pressure-treated wood is OK. for the
tropical garden, bird/butterfly garden, dwarf fruit tree mini-orchard, etc i'll
have to improve the soil area by area. i can't afford to bring in good topsoil
and compost for the entire yard at one time.

Have you looked at the materials that are plastic mixed with wood fibre?
They should not leach nastiness into the soil.

Have you talked with your municipality to see if they are willing to
deliver a load of uncomposted leaves?
Do you stay on the lookout for the folks that bag their raked leaves
and leave them on the curb?
Both are useful for making your own compost.

And have you any acquaintances that have many horses and a dump trailer?
They're probably more than willing to get manure off their hands.

--
Chris Dukes
Suspicion breeds confidance -- Brazil

recommendation on manure (free!):
get in touch with Ryan at southern star alpacas -- he & his wife run an
alpaca farm and are usually more than happy to get rid of manure -- as he
says, the alpacas do the composting for you and the stuff doesn't stink.
i've had really good results with it. and since it's so non-toxic, you can
carry more than you need & let it sit somewhere before using it, it'll
just compost more.
southernstaralpacas.com

arwen



On Thu, 30 Dec 2004, Patskywriter wrote:

dwayne, great suggestions! i definitely plan to do much of the "structural"
stuff this winter. because the dirt that was trucked in is so bad, i'm going to
build raised beds for my fruits and veggies and add composted manure and good
topsoil. i'm hoping that the "new" pressure-treated wood is OK. for the
tropical garden, bird/butterfly garden, dwarf fruit tree mini-orchard, etc i'll
have to improve the soil area by area. i can't afford to bring in good topsoil
and compost for the entire yard at one time.

i've actually planned the layout although i haven't committed it to a grid yet.
i should probably do that. i have also compiled a list of all the plants i want
to get--many i'll start from seeds.

thanks again for the great suggestions!

pat

"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...

| i should probably do that. i have also compiled a list of all
the plants i want
| to get--many i'll start from seeds.
|
I've always thought it would be fun to have a meet/greet in the
spring. Twould be fun
if we could have a plant auction, too. Anyone else up for it?
Raleighgirl

In the meantime, you might also go to your local grocery stores, talk to the
managers, and see if you can get permission to pick up the veggies and
fruits that they are throwing away. Cook or remove the seeds first and then
compost them all over your ground. As others have said, manure is also a
great help, but be sure it is aged. Horse manure will grow a lot of grains
that you didn't plant. "Force Fed" chickens will produce a lot of extra
plants also. Be picky or you may have to pay for it later in additional
weeding work.

Adding sand will also benefit your garden, as will peat moss. If you have a
clay based soil, these will aid in the drainage, if you can get them deep
enough.

I used pressure treated wood for my asperagus gardens, strawberry beds and
some flower beds. I have never seen any sort of problem from their use.

Dwayne

"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
dwayne, great suggestions! i definitely plan to do much of the
"structural"
stuff this winter. because the dirt that was trucked in is so bad, i'm
going to
build raised beds for my fruits and veggies and add composted manure and
good
topsoil. i'm hoping that the "new" pressure-treated wood is OK. for the
tropical garden, bird/butterfly garden, dwarf fruit tree mini-orchard, etc
i'll
have to improve the soil area by area. i can't afford to bring in good
topsoil
and compost for the entire yard at one time.

i've actually planned the layout although i haven't committed it to a grid
yet.
i should probably do that. i have also compiled a list of all the plants i
want
to get--many i'll start from seeds.

thanks again for the great suggestions!

pat

The opinions expressed by one poster (below) do not represent those of this
newsgroup as a whole.

I confess that I have *no clue* what a "monospaced font" might be, except to
think that it might be what we (back in the old days) referred to as
"typewriter font" -- how very ironic that term is, though, to those of us
who actually used typewriters! (Anyone else remember "Pica" and "Elite" --
and how they differed?)

(Did I remember to mention, "Sonny, do not mess with me!" in my post; hmm,
most likely, I did not forget that.)

Anne Lurie
NE Raleigh



Just a few nits, but.
1) Your keyboard has a shift key. Use it to capitalize words that
are supposed to be capitalized. Do not use the caps lock key.
2) Keep your lines to ~72 characters in length so that followups
can quote what you write.
3) You are posting in a medium that assumes a monospaced font. Put
two spaces after punctuation marks such as ., !, ?, and :.

I have been getting my seeds from organic suppliers or holding them and
drying them from Wholefoods.
I have some neat and strange ones for this year and would love to find out
what everyone is planning. (I also do herbs and such)
I will start my list this week, and my seedlings late winter.
The only drawback is I will be able to do the seedlings but totally
depending on my hubby to get them planted outside for me in spring.
I am strictly forbidden to do any activities like that for awhile, but I
still want my garden.

Glad to see activity in the group again.

Jo

"Raleighgirl" wrote in message
...

"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...

| i should probably do that. i have also compiled a list of all
the plants i want
| to get--many i'll start from seeds.
|
I've always thought it would be fun to have a meet/greet in the
spring. Twould be fun
if we could have a plant auction, too. Anyone else up for it?
Raleighgirl

On Fri, 31 Dec 2004, Anne Lurie wrote:
-
-The opinions expressed by one poster (below) do not represent those of this
-newsgroup as a whole.

I would like to second that - although I do read news in a text-based
newsreader, and do prefer to use as-correct-as-I-can capitalisation, one
cannot assume any longer that the medium "assumes a monospaced font" -
esp. if you are reading news through a web-based interface.

As long as the *meaning* of the message comes through, wtf is the problem
with the rest?

-(Did I remember to mention, "Sonny, do not mess with me!" in my post; hmm,
-most likely, I did not forget that.)

No messing with you here. :-)

ObNewsSnobbery: Oh yeah, no top posting.

Cheers
KJ


--
---
"A photograph is neither taken nor seized by force. It offers itself up. It is
the photo that takes you. One must not take photos." Henri Cartier-Bresson
www.hungryphotographer.org || www.ibiblio.org/kelly || kelly*unc.edu

Asparagus That is the correct way to spell it. My spell checker was
away for the holidays. Sorry about that.

Dwayne

"Dwayne" wrote in message
m...

I used pressure treated wood for my asperagus gardens, strawberry beds and
some flower beds. I have never seen any sort of problem from their use.

Dwayne

On 2005-01-01, K. Jo Garner wrote:
On Fri, 31 Dec 2004, Anne Lurie wrote:
-
-The opinions expressed by one poster (below) do not represent those of this
-newsgroup as a whole.

I would like to second that - although I do read news in a text-based
newsreader, and do prefer to use as-correct-as-I-can capitalisation, one
cannot assume any longer that the medium "assumes a monospaced font" -
esp. if you are reading news through a web-based interface.

http://groups-beta.google.com/suppor...2348&topic=108
The above is a pretty good guideline. It does say keep line length to
80 characters and to remove control characters ( which to me includes
HTML, MIME and such).


Here is the first paragraph to the above URL.
The Do's and Don'ts of Posting on Google Groups

The easiest way to learn what's acceptable on Usenet is by watching how
others use it. Once you've read a few hundred posts and witnessed a few
flame wars erupt, you should get a feel for what's appropriate and
what's not. To help you get there a bit faster (and to make sure you
don't unintentionally set off a flame war of your own), we've included
some basic tips that will help you fit into the Usenet community more
easily. This guide is adapted from the very helpful 'A Primer on How to
Work With the Usenet Community' by Chuq Von Rospach. For a more complete
guide to Usenet posting rules, search on Google Groups for 'usenet
posting rules.'

Chris tends to be pedantic at times. He has just gotten into orchids
and therefore is just starting to pay attention to tri.gardens. He
forgets one other guideline from the URL: Never forget that the person
on the other side is human. So he can come off more abrasive than he
realizes. He is an "old timer" when it comes to USENET.

side is human.
As long as the *meaning* of the message comes through, wtf is the problem
with the rest?

-(Did I remember to mention, "Sonny, do not mess with me!" in my post; hmm,
-most likely, I did not forget that.)

No messing with you here. :-)

ObNewsSnobbery: Oh yeah, no top posting.

Cheers
KJ




--
Wes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please.

is a garbage address.

"Dwayne" wrote in message
...
Asparagus That is the correct way to spell it. My spell checker
was
away for the holidays. Sorry about that.

Dwayne


My brain was away with your spell checker
:)


Jo

First things first, build yourself a nice compost bin. I built mine with
four left-over 4x4's (for the corners) and 2x6's for the sides, using a slat
style construction. I'm also planing on re-doing a crappy yard with raised
beds, so I went for a 4 ft.(deep) x 8 ft.(wide) sizing. You can do it
however you like, but remember to use the pricey coated screws, it's worth
it down the road.
Murri

"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
dwayne, great suggestions! i definitely plan to do much of the
"structural"
stuff this winter. because the dirt that was trucked in is so bad, i'm
going to
build raised beds for my fruits and veggies and add composted manure and
good
topsoil. i'm hoping that the "new" pressure-treated wood is OK. for the
tropical garden, bird/butterfly garden, dwarf fruit tree mini-orchard, etc
i'll
have to improve the soil area by area. i can't afford to bring in good
topsoil
and compost for the entire yard at one time.

i've actually planned the layout although i haven't committed it to a grid
yet.
i should probably do that. i have also compiled a list of all the plants i
want
to get--many i'll start from seeds.

thanks again for the great suggestions!

pat

First things first, build yourself a nice compost bin.

thanks, murri! believe it or not, i actually have TWO compost bins, even though
i don’t have a backyard garden yet! I also bought rain barrels for all our
gutters (5 in total). you can save a FORTUNE when you water your plants with
rainwater.

a friend of mine told me that cinder blocks would be better for the raised beds
that i'll be growing fruits and veggies in. pressure-treated wood leaches
harmful preservatives into the soil; conversely, cinder blocks leach a bit of
lime into the soil, which is fine by me. because i'm driving a dinky lil
plymouth, i'll buy a few cinder blocks every time i'm in the vicinity of lowe's
or home depot. by spring i should have enough for all my beds. :)

pat

I'm planing on brick or stone, but cinder block would work too. And the bit
about the lumber is true so far as I know. Besides, the lumber will decay
eventually, no matter what it's treated w/, or crack if it freezes when wet,
etc.......
Murri

"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
First things first, build yourself a nice compost bin.

thanks, murri! believe it or not, i actually have TWO compost bins, even
though
i don't have a backyard garden yet! I also bought rain barrels for all our
gutters (5 in total). you can save a FORTUNE when you water your plants
with
rainwater.

a friend of mine told me that cinder blocks would be better for the raised
beds
that i'll be growing fruits and veggies in. pressure-treated wood leaches
harmful preservatives into the soil; conversely, cinder blocks leach a bit
of
lime into the soil, which is fine by me. because i'm driving a dinky lil
plymouth, i'll buy a few cinder blocks every time i'm in the vicinity of
lowe's
or home depot. by spring i should have enough for all my beds. :)

pat

omiGOD! i can't wait to start gardening--i haven't had a garden in FIVE
years!!! ahem 'scuze me, just had to get that out

pat :)

*giggle* It's ok. Feel free to express yourself.
Murri

"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
omiGOD! i can't wait to start gardening--i haven't had a garden in FIVE
years!!! ahem 'scuze me, just had to get that out

pat :)

thanks for those links--i read the articles and decided that i'll stay with the
cinder blocks for fruits/veggies, but i won't hesitate to use treated lumber
for tropicals, flowers, etc.

i suppose it's almost time to get my seeds started. i have four minigreenhouses
at the side of the house and i'm anxiousl to get going! i have so many seeds i
might not have to buy so many plants this spring/summer! (although i did
promise a couple of buddies that we were going to visit big bloomers in april
or may.)

say, does anyone know anything about growing scuppernongs? i never even heard
of 'em before i moved here (durham), but i'm thinking maybe i should make a go
at growing them. i wonder how many years it takes for the vines to bear fruit
....?

pat :)

Scuppernongs are a native grape. Check out the Biltmore Estate Winery
website for info. And try googling for it.
Remember though, Pat, that native varieties of grape tend to grow faster in
their natural areas, so consider carefully where you put it, as you can only
trim a grape vine back so far before you make it susceptible to disease and
insects. My fiance warns: "Once encouraged and growing, you may not have a
fruiting plant, but you will have lots of plant."
Note: Scuppernongs do not always fruit as regularly as some other grapes. If
you want a light grape with sweet flavor, seeds, and thick insect resistant
skins, you could try a "pineapple" muscadine (one variety, there are
actually quite a number of sweet white muscadines). It's just as tasty, but
more manageable for someone who's never grown grapes.
The best thing, however, would be to have a long conversation with someone
who has grown a wide variety of grapes in this area.

Murri

"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
thanks for those links--i read the articles and decided that i'll stay
with the
cinder blocks for fruits/veggies, but i won't hesitate to use treated
lumber
for tropicals, flowers, etc.

i suppose it's almost time to get my seeds started. i have four
minigreenhouses
at the side of the house and i'm anxiousl to get going! i have so many
seeds i
might not have to buy so many plants this spring/summer! (although i did
promise a couple of buddies that we were going to visit big bloomers in
april
or may.)

say, does anyone know anything about growing scuppernongs? i never even
heard
of 'em before i moved here (durham), but i'm thinking maybe i should make
a go
at growing them. i wonder how many years it takes for the vines to bear
fruit
...?

pat :)

whoa! thanks for the info on scuppernongs/muscadines, murri! i've got some
studying to do!

in the meantime, i'll plan to set up my new garden with peas, beans, tomatoes,
cucumbers, and raspberries ... and in the back part of the yard dwarf fruit
trees—peaches, apples, and plums

pat

I've noticed some cinderblock edging at the Arboretum. They had actually
filled the "holes" with soil & planted various creeping plants to improve
the appearance of the block. Clever folks...

Brian
"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
thanks for those links--i read the articles and decided that i'll stay
with the
cinder blocks for fruits/veggies, but i won't hesitate to use treated
lumber
for tropicals, flowers, etc.

i suppose it's almost time to get my seeds started. i have four
minigreenhouses
at the side of the house and i'm anxiousl to get going! i have so many
seeds i
might not have to buy so many plants this spring/summer! (although i did
promise a couple of buddies that we were going to visit big bloomers in
april
or may.)

say, does anyone know anything about growing scuppernongs? i never even
heard
of 'em before i moved here (durham), but i'm thinking maybe i should make
a go
at growing them. i wonder how many years it takes for the vines to bear
fruit
...?

pat :)

On 2005-02-08, Brian G wrote:
I've noticed some cinderblock edging at the Arboretum. They had actually
filled the "holes" with soil & planted various creeping plants to improve
the appearance of the block. Clever folks...


The probably copied me. I have had some like that for 20 years. :-)

They are quite porus and will dryout fast if toomuch is left above the
ground.

Brian
"Patskywriter" wrote in message
...
thanks for those links--i read the articles and decided that i'll stay
with the
cinder blocks for fruits/veggies, but i won't hesitate to use treated
lumber
for tropicals, flowers, etc.

i suppose it's almost time to get my seeds started. i have four
minigreenhouses
at the side of the house and i'm anxiousl to get going! i have so many
seeds i
might not have to buy so many plants this spring/summer! (although i did
promise a couple of buddies that we were going to visit big bloomers in
april
or may.)

say, does anyone know anything about growing scuppernongs? i never even
heard
of 'em before i moved here (durham), but i'm thinking maybe i should make
a go
at growing them. i wonder how many years it takes for the vines to bear
fruit
...?

pat :)




--
Wes Dukes (wdukes.pobox@com) Swap the . and the @ to email me please.

is a garbage address.