I just posted the following to rgo. It is *not* cross posted. I hope someone
can ID this mess. Will post the pictures in succession in this thread.

Well, we have a little problem here. Walked out on the patio on Friday
morning and saw severe damage to a number of Phals. Mind you, seeing them
every day is unavoidable, so I can assure you that these probs were not
evident the day before. Clearly, something had been in the works, but I
hadn't noticed.

The leaves are turning yellow starting at the outer edges. The under sides
of the leaves look moldy and pitted. Some of them have what look like sunken
areas on the top of the leaves, but those are not soft. There is no sign of
snails/slugs, and those things would be unlikely to find them where they
live. There is no big web infestation, so I don't think it's spider mites.
My guess is some kind of mites, however. Saturday we sprayed everything
(*everything*!) with soap and oil with some alcohol thrown in for good
measure - 6 tb/gallon.

Pictures going up in abpo in 1 minute. I'm really worried. Here I teach a
class for newbies, and look what I've got.

Diana

Notice the black and yellow edge. This is how it starts, but not always
showing black. It's more likely to look just yellow around the edge of the
leaf.

Diana

In the last picture, it's important to note that the black spot is not soft.
None of the black spots is soft. This one speaks for itself.

Diana

I don't know if you can see the mottling on the leaves. They are all getting
this, along with a few Catts.

Isn't this just lovely? Am I going to lose all my Phals??

Diana

This is a P. lueddemanniana that was healthy as a horse until three days
ago.

This Phal. hybrid has been growing like a weed. Now it just *looks* like a
weed.

Diana

That last mounted Phal, with the dark spots all over the underside of the
leaves, is atypical of what's happening. Some of these plants simply turn
yellow, while others get those horrid spots.

I am very concerned.

Diana

Oh oh!!!! I lost my collection of Phals & some Vanda's. My leaves had
yellow blotches which looked like bleach had been splashed on them.
I think our very own Steve had something like this too.

I would isolate first.
Get a large drum or bucket with a fungicide mix, then soak the plants,
submerse them for a few hours.
Maybe try some cinnamon tea. Ray's recipe.
Make up a bottle of Physan 20 & spray them every day.

Good luck Diana, I will keep my fingers crossed & hold thumbs for you.


--
Cheers Wendy

No Spam Email Address Invalid

Diana Kulaga wrote:
That last mounted Phal, with the dark spots all over the underside of
the leaves, is atypical of what's happening. Some of these plants
simply turn yellow, while others get those horrid spots.

I am very concerned.

Diana

Diana,

Since it's sudden and hitting multiple plants I would guess this is
something in the culture. The black spots look to me a bacterial infection.
The sudden yellow leaves would make me suspect something chemical.

Has there been any over spray from near by? Did someone spray the azaleas
and the wind pick up the spray and it got on the orchids?

I think I remember you are in Florida? Was there a real quick change in
temps that could have caused a bacteria to florish? Some of the pictures
look to me like the plant got chilled and as a result the leaves are just
not turgid.

I had a Phal schilleriana "Pink Butterfly" that was hanging and growing like
a weed. A month ago I walked into the greenhouse and the newest leaf was on
the ground. The crown rotted in a matter of days. I know water wasn't
collecting in the crown because the plant was mounted so everything drains
out. The crown was all mushy.

I wish I could be of more help to you.

Gene






"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
I just posted the following to rgo. It is *not* cross posted. I hope
someone
can ID this mess. Will post the pictures in succession in this thread.

Well, we have a little problem here. Walked out on the patio on Friday
morning and saw severe damage to a number of Phals. Mind you, seeing them
every day is unavoidable, so I can assure you that these probs were not
evident the day before. Clearly, something had been in the works, but I
hadn't noticed.

The leaves are turning yellow starting at the outer edges. The under sides
of the leaves look moldy and pitted. Some of them have what look like
sunken
areas on the top of the leaves, but those are not soft. There is no sign
of
snails/slugs, and those things would be unlikely to find them where they
live. There is no big web infestation, so I don't think it's spider mites.
My guess is some kind of mites, however. Saturday we sprayed everything
(*everything*!) with soap and oil with some alcohol thrown in for good
measure - 6 tb/gallon.

Pictures going up in abpo in 1 minute. I'm really worried. Here I teach a
class for newbies, and look what I've got.

Diana

Thanks, Wendy and Gene. Kathy responded in rgo; she also thinks it's some
kind of crud. The collection gets a dose of Physan first thing tomorrow.
Also, Odom's is about 15 minutes away. After we spray I think I'll take a
couple of leaves over there for close up examination.

The only thing that has been going on lately is the building of a pool next
door. No chemicals. We had some cool nights, but nothing earth shattering
and no sudden drops. At least one Vanda is affected, and it is nowhere near
the Phals, but I'm seeing mottled leaves on a few Catts, too, also in other
locations.

Thanks for holding thumbs, Wendy G. I think I'm going to need the help.

Diana

Damn! Two days in a row I have to agree with Gene.

The dark wounds on the leaves are the lesser indicators, in my mind, and the
problem solver makes me want to ask what - no matter how seemingly
insignificant - has changed?

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:c31dh.906$oC.30@trnddc04...
Diana,

Since it's sudden and hitting multiple plants I would guess this is
something in the culture. The black spots look to me a bacterial
infection.
The sudden yellow leaves would make me suspect something chemical.

Has there been any over spray from near by? Did someone spray the azaleas
and the wind pick up the spray and it got on the orchids?

I think I remember you are in Florida? Was there a real quick change in
temps that could have caused a bacteria to florish? Some of the pictures
look to me like the plant got chilled and as a result the leaves are just
not turgid.

I had a Phal schilleriana "Pink Butterfly" that was hanging and growing
like
a weed. A month ago I walked into the greenhouse and the newest leaf was
on
the ground. The crown rotted in a matter of days. I know water wasn't
collecting in the crown because the plant was mounted so everything drains
out. The crown was all mushy.

I wish I could be of more help to you.

Gene






"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
I just posted the following to rgo. It is *not* cross posted. I hope
someone
can ID this mess. Will post the pictures in succession in this thread.

Well, we have a little problem here. Walked out on the patio on Friday
morning and saw severe damage to a number of Phals. Mind you, seeing them
every day is unavoidable, so I can assure you that these probs were not
evident the day before. Clearly, something had been in the works, but I
hadn't noticed.

The leaves are turning yellow starting at the outer edges. The under
sides
of the leaves look moldy and pitted. Some of them have what look like
sunken
areas on the top of the leaves, but those are not soft. There is no sign
of
snails/slugs, and those things would be unlikely to find them where they
live. There is no big web infestation, so I don't think it's spider
mites.
My guess is some kind of mites, however. Saturday we sprayed everything
(*everything*!) with soap and oil with some alcohol thrown in for good
measure - 6 tb/gallon.

Pictures going up in abpo in 1 minute. I'm really worried. Here I teach a
class for newbies, and look what I've got.

Diana

Ray, I swear nothing has changed, not even the slightest thing. We did have
some cool nights, and the humidity was high. So, there you go. Believe it or
not, this has moved so fast that between the time I wrote the original post
until now, I can see more damage. It's clearer now than it was then. This is
not insects, though when we hit it with the soap and oil combo that's what
it looked like. It's either fungal or bacterial, most likely the latter. The
black spots are indeed the secondary problem, though. The major issue is the
yellowing from the outside of the leaves.

I have work to do in the morning, boys and girls. I have Physan on hand, so
that's what I'll use. And we'll do wound control to the best of our ability.

Sorry you had to agree with Gene again, Ray! G Don't sell me any plants
until I get this resolved.

Diana


"Ray B" wrote in message
news:1f3dh.927$R_1.327@trndny08...
Damn! Two days in a row I have to agree with Gene.

The dark wounds on the leaves are the lesser indicators, in my mind, and
the problem solver makes me want to ask what - no matter how seemingly
insignificant - has changed?

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:c31dh.906$oC.30@trnddc04...
Diana,

Since it's sudden and hitting multiple plants I would guess this is
something in the culture. The black spots look to me a bacterial
infection.
The sudden yellow leaves would make me suspect something chemical.

Has there been any over spray from near by? Did someone spray the
azaleas
and the wind pick up the spray and it got on the orchids?

I think I remember you are in Florida? Was there a real quick change in
temps that could have caused a bacteria to florish? Some of the
pictures
look to me like the plant got chilled and as a result the leaves are just
not turgid.

I had a Phal schilleriana "Pink Butterfly" that was hanging and growing
like
a weed. A month ago I walked into the greenhouse and the newest leaf was
on
the ground. The crown rotted in a matter of days. I know water wasn't
collecting in the crown because the plant was mounted so everything
drains
out. The crown was all mushy.

I wish I could be of more help to you.

Gene






"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
I just posted the following to rgo. It is *not* cross posted. I hope
someone
can ID this mess. Will post the pictures in succession in this thread.

Well, we have a little problem here. Walked out on the patio on Friday
morning and saw severe damage to a number of Phals. Mind you, seeing
them
every day is unavoidable, so I can assure you that these probs were not
evident the day before. Clearly, something had been in the works, but I
hadn't noticed.

The leaves are turning yellow starting at the outer edges. The under
sides
of the leaves look moldy and pitted. Some of them have what look like
sunken
areas on the top of the leaves, but those are not soft. There is no sign
of
snails/slugs, and those things would be unlikely to find them where they
live. There is no big web infestation, so I don't think it's spider
mites.
My guess is some kind of mites, however. Saturday we sprayed everything
(*everything*!) with soap and oil with some alcohol thrown in for good
measure - 6 tb/gallon.

Pictures going up in abpo in 1 minute. I'm really worried. Here I teach
a
class for newbies, and look what I've got.

Diana

wendy7 wrote:

Oh oh!!!! I lost my collection of Phals & some Vanda's. My leaves had
yellow blotches which looked like bleach had been splashed on them.
I think our very own Steve had something like this too.

Our very own Tennis made a prediction about my Phal disease and he
turned out to be exactly right. I'll put it in quotes even though it
wouldn't be the exact words he probably used:
"You'll be free of that disease eventually... after the last affected
plant dies."
Well, I believe I am free of the disease at last. The last affected
plant died on Thanksgiving day (give or take a few hours). The last to
give it up was, in fact, the one I wanted most to save. It was the very
first orchid I ever bought, back in 1974 or '75.
I ordered a new Phal this week (along with some other orchids). It will
not be anywhere near the area where the old Phals were.



I would isolate first.

Yes!! Even though I don't really think your problem, Diana, is what I
had, it may be something that will spread to the other plants. Move any
suspect plants way over to one side of the patio, if possible. (If
another plant looks suspicious later, move it over to the bad side.)
Then spray that Physan. I would be surprised if Physan can cure that
disease but if it is caused by a microscopic organism of any kind, the
Physan will at least disinfect the surfaces in the area. Those surfaces
may include not only the bench where the diseased plants were but also
the surface of leaves of the other plants. Keep us informed!

Steve

Hi Diana,

I do not know what is going on. I, like Rob, Gene, and Ray, wonder if it is
not some culture issue. Hard, dry and very fast moving is not your normal
creeping crud. I do not think it is the Steve infliction, it is moving too
fast. I checked the weather for you for the past month, it sounds like it
has been lovely and not a single night would have cause this. The sun is at
a very low angle now. I would carefully check to make sure shading is still
right. Has anyone been using roundup or grass weed & feed?

Do you have a bush snail problem? I have seen bacteria/fungus problems show
up very quickly moving into plants via open bush snail wounds.

If these were my plants here is what I would be doing:

First Day,

First, depot one or two and make sure the roots are ok. Since one of the
plants was mounted, I know this is not a problem. But one of the first
things I always do is check roots.

Second, I would flush everything. A real good flushing of two or three
passes.

Third, I would spray with a systemic fungicide cocktail. There are a couple
I use, Spectro (Cleary's 3336 and Daconil) is very good and the components
should be available in consumer sizes. This spraying will be absorbed into
the plant and remain effective for about a month.

Fourth, I would put out something if bush snails might be an issue.

In a couple of days, I would spray down the plants. After the leaves are
dry, I would start a weekly spraying of Phyton 27. The first couple of
times I would use it at the higher recommended level and after that move
down to the lower recommended level. Phyton 27 is also sold in consumer
size.

After the flush, the next time the plants needed water, I would do it with a
weak fertilizer solution. The time after that I would use a trace mix.
Trace mixes can be found at the local garden center as an Iron supplement.
Read the labels, many of the iron supplements are really formulated to
address all trace problems.

Lastly, I would isolate. Put everything with any signs of the problem in
one area. The bad leaves are not going to get better and dieing tissue is
going to continue to die. But over a short period of time we would like to
see problem areas quit growing with no new ones showing up. Plants in the
healthy area should stay healthy. If healthy plants continue to get sick,
we have not addressed the problem and it is time to move to plan B.

Pat