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Old 13-09-2007, 12:02 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 398
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by Hilda
Curtis in 1925.

At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous examples
of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of its
range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name given to
genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews, such
as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary.

I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's confusing.
It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern natural
hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE Queensland
natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x gracilicaule)
to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum which he
names the "Atherton Cane Orchid".

Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact another D x
delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of the
coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of a
gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like gracilicaule -
much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen base as
might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum
perfume.
Dave Gillingham
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"Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument-den-nitidm-01.jpg  
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Old 13-09-2007, 12:20 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 452
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your homework.

Nice shot too!

Cheers

John

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was
collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by
Hilda
Curtis in 1925.

At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous
examples
of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of
its
range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name
given to
genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews,
such
as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary.

I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's
confusing.
It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern
natural
hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE
Queensland
natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x
gracilicaule)
to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum
which he
names the "Atherton Cane Orchid".

Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact
another D x
delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of
the
coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of
a
gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like
gracilicaule -
much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen
base as
might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum
perfume.
Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.




  #3   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2007, 04:54 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,344
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D
speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as
well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I
can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography
straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the
east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like
that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan.
http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I bought
Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this
evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the
Borneo trip, so tomorrow...

K Barrett

"John Varigos" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your
homework.

Nice shot too!

Cheers

John

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was
collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by
Hilda
Curtis in 1925.

At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous
examples
of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of
its
range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name
given to
genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews,
such
as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary.

I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's
confusing.
It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern
natural
hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE
Queensland
natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x
gracilicaule)
to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum
which he
names the "Atherton Cane Orchid".

Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact
another D x
delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of
the
coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of
a
gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like
gracilicaule -
much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen
base as
might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum
perfume.
Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.






  #4   Report Post  
Old 13-09-2007, 11:25 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 452
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

Kathy, you will find Jones's book both engrossing and frustrating. His index
is a real pain (badly thought out and set out - you'll know what I mean when
you start using it) but once you get into it the book is the encyclopedia on
Australian species. You don't have to agree with him on the name changes
but I have noticed that they are slowly being accepted by many growers in
Australia particularly the experts at my ANOS group.

I am sure Eric's talk will be most entertaining! I'd love to be there to
hear what he says was the highlights and lowlights! Pass on my regards to
him.

John


"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D
speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as
well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I
can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography
straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the
east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like
that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan.
http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I
bought Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing
this evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the
Borneo trip, so tomorrow...

K Barrett

"John Varigos" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your
homework.

Nice shot too!

Cheers

John

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was
collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by
Hilda
Curtis in 1925.

At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous
examples
of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of
its
range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name
given to
genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So
reviews, such
as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary.

I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's
confusing.
It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern
natural
hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE
Queensland
natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x
gracilicaule)
to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum
which he
names the "Atherton Cane Orchid".

Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact
another D x
delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of
the
coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic
of a
gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like
gracilicaule -
much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen
base as
might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum
perfume.
Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.








  #5   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2007, 05:14 AM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 398
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

Kathy, I assume you're on broadband? If so I'll send you the cross index I've
made for Jones (2006). Only the epiphytes & lithophytes so far - the
terrestrials are in the too hard basket as yet, since I know very little about
them.

Then I'll try to make the time to scan some information on speciosum from my
pre-2006 books, since at this stage those are the taxa you're most likely to see
on labels over there.

If you'd prefer me to use an email address other than the one on the header of
this posting, email me to advise. I'll hold the email till I see your reply
here.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:54:20 -0700, "K Barrett" wrote:

I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D
speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as
well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so I
can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography
straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to the
east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like
that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan.
http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I bought
Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this
evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the
Borneo trip, so tomorrow...

K Barrett

"John Varigos" wrote in message
. com...
Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your
homework.

Nice shot too!

Cheers

John

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was
collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by
Hilda
Curtis in 1925.

At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous
examples
of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts of
its
range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name
given to
genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So reviews,
such
as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary.

I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's
confusing.
It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern
natural
hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE
Queensland
natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x
gracilicaule)
to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum
which he
names the "Atherton Cane Orchid".

Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact
another D x
delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none of
the
coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic of
a
gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like
gracilicaule -
much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen
base as
might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious kingianum
perfume.
Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.





Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.


  #6   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2007, 08:37 AM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
Kye Kye is offline
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Apr 2007
Posts: 84
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

Dave,

If that list is available for limited sharing, I would LOVE to have a
browse...


--
Yours Sincerely
Kye

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
Kathy, I assume you're on broadband? If so I'll send you the cross index
I've
made for Jones (2006). Only the epiphytes & lithophytes so far - the
terrestrials are in the too hard basket as yet, since I know very little
about
them.

Then I'll try to make the time to scan some information on speciosum from
my
pre-2006 books, since at this stage those are the taxa you're most likely
to see
on labels over there.

If you'd prefer me to use an email address other than the one on the
header of
this posting, email me to advise. I'll hold the email till I see your
reply
here.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:54:20 -0700, "K Barrett"
wrote:

I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D
speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as
well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so
I
can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography
straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to
the
east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like
that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan.
http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I
bought
Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this
evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the
Borneo trip, so tomorrow...

K Barrett

"John Varigos" wrote in message
.com...
Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your
homework.

Nice shot too!

Cheers

John

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was
collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by
Hilda
Curtis in 1925.

At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous
examples
of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts
of
its
range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name
given to
genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So
reviews,
such
as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary.

I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's
confusing.
It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern
natural
hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE
Queensland
natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x
gracilicaule)
to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum
which he
names the "Atherton Cane Orchid".

Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact
another D x
delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none
of
the
coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic
of
a
gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like
gracilicaule -
much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen
base as
might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious
kingianum
perfume.
Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.





Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.



  #7   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2007, 11:05 AM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 398
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

Kye, should I use the Hotmail address in the header to your posting?

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:37:28 GMT, "Kye" wrote:

Dave,

If that list is available for limited sharing, I would LOVE to have a
browse...

Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.
  #8   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2007, 11:24 AM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 452
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

Dave

Wouldn't mind a copy as well.

Cheers
John

--
John Varigos
Melbourne, Australia
__________________________________________
To email me remove "usenet." from my email address.


"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
Kye, should I use the Hotmail address in the header to your posting?

On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:37:28 GMT, "Kye" wrote:

Dave,

If that list is available for limited sharing, I would LOVE to have a
browse...

Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.



  #10   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2007, 04:44 PM posted to alt.binaries.pictures.orchids
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,344
Default "Dendrobium nitidum" - the other side of the taxonomic argument

Dave, How wonderful of you to share that work! Yes please send it to the
mormodes address. You are a Pal!

Kath

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
Kathy, I assume you're on broadband? If so I'll send you the cross index
I've
made for Jones (2006). Only the epiphytes & lithophytes so far - the
terrestrials are in the too hard basket as yet, since I know very little
about
them.

Then I'll try to make the time to scan some information on speciosum from
my
pre-2006 books, since at this stage those are the taxa you're most likely
to see
on labels over there.

If you'd prefer me to use an email address other than the one on the
header of
this posting, email me to advise. I'll hold the email till I see your
reply
here.

On Thu, 13 Sep 2007 07:54:20 -0700, "K Barrett"
wrote:

I agree. Most helpful. I find Dendrobiums very confusing. I looked up D
speciosum on teh SBOE web page and found they have several varieties, as
well as others, so I spent some time googling habitats and ranges just so
I
can get the geography straight in my mind. Or attempt to get the geography
straight in my mind. I fear I suffer from California-itis, anything to
the
east of the Sierra and west of the coast is of no importance. Rather like
that old 'New Yorker' cover showing the world revolving around Manhattan.
http://www.saulsteinbergfoundation.o...ewofworld.html I
bought
Jones' book and havn't opened it yet. I guess that's what I'm doing this
evening... well actually Eric Hunt is talking to our society about the
Borneo trip, so tomorrow...

K Barrett

"John Varigos" wrote in message
.com...
Thanks for the biology lesson Dave. You certainly have done your
homework.

Nice shot too!

Cheers

John

"Dave Gillingham" wrote in message
...
As you can see from the pic of the tag, the original of this plant was
collected
on Mt Tamborine (in the coastal mountains a little SW of Brisbane) by
Hilda
Curtis in 1925.

At that stage of our native orchid classification there were numerous
examples
of the same plant collected by different botanists in different parts
of
its
range and, quite independently, given different names. Also, same name
given to
genuinely different orchids that seemed similar at the time. So
reviews,
such
as those I've bleated about at times, are indeed necessary.

I can't really sort out the history of the name D nitidum, but it's
confusing.
It has been applied to a northern variety of speciosum; to a northern
natural
hybrid, possibly speciosum var curvicaule x gracilicaule; to the SE
Queensland
natural hybrid now known as x gracillimum (speciosum var hillii x
gracilicaule)
to name a few. Then there's the new Jones species Thelychiton nitidum
which he
names the "Atherton Cane Orchid".

Never the less, the general consensus is that this plant is in fact
another D x
delicatum (speciosum var hillii x kingianum). There's certainly none
of
the
coloured blotching on the outside of the sepals that is characteristic
of
a
gracilicaule component (though the canes are long & skinny like
gracilicaule -
much longer than any kingianums I've seen - but with a slightly swollen
base as
might come from kingianum. And it definitely has the glorious
kingianum
perfume.
Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.





Dave Gillingham
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To email me remove the .private from my email address.



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