My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

The picture shows one quarter of my greenhouse floor space. 3/4 of it is
filled with orchids. Many many in bloom. But I want to talk about the big
dig and so it is the subject of the picture and the rant that follows.

I added an extra 24 inches to the old knee wall when I rebuilt it after the
fire. I am spending June digging a ditch and installing panels of
insulation against the new waste high knee wall. The knee wall is 36 to
inches
high from the ground at its greatest heights, which is in the middle. The
ground slopes downward toward the middle of the long side of the greenhouse,
so the knee wall at each end is actually more like 22 to 24. I am digging
the ditch along the inside of the greenhouse, along the new knee wall. I am
installing the 1.5 inch R-9 insulation panels so that they start at the top
of the knee wall and extend 15 to 18 inches into the ground along the base
of the knee wall. These are the kind of panels you can put down below
concrete floors. In addition, I am going to add a 16 to 18 inch long strip
of insulation horizontally against the vertical insulation barrier along the
whole length of the wall. This will be buried about 1 foot below grade.
(That's why the ditch is so wide.) This will, I hope, make a very good
barrier against heat leaking out into the air and cold earth along the
greenhouse walls. An engineer who is also a customer told me this would be
almost as effective as insulating the whole floor and much less disruptive
and expensive. He did not mention it would kill me to do it. This is a
massive undertaking for me alone. Before I could dig the trench, I had to
rake back the gravel floor far enough so I could work. I was not even
finished raking before I knew I would not survive to finish the OTHER SIDE
TOO. I am about ¼ done with one 98 foot side. Add 100 degree temperatures
and humidity like you can't believe and. well, I am thirsty and tired and it
is only 10 AM and my fourth day of this part of the task. I will be doing
this for some time I think. It is worse than digging the footings for the
deck last summer during the heat wave/draught when the ground was solid and
the shovels kept snapping in two. Or maybe it is the same and I am just
older.

What keeps me going is the daily reports on the news about the cost of oil.
Can you imagine what it will be next winter? I am planning for ALMOST the
worst I can think of. I am going to put a clear lexan wall up which will
divide the greenhouse in half and then I will only heat half the greenhouse
this coming winter. The plants I have left after the fire should fit in
half the greenhouse easily. We'll see what happens after that. You can see
the framing for this middle wall is already built in the picture. It is the
old south wall before I went insane and doubled the length of the structure.

The worst I can think of is not being able to afford oil at all...

Where are all the winches when you need them? I have been handing every
customer who comes though the door a shovel and trying to put them to work.
I think the word is getting out. Walk-in customers have all but stopped in
the last 6 weeks.

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

I vote for: you're older. Hire some high school students to finish at
least the digging for you - be done in a couple days and they work
cheap. I just built my GH last summer and it almost killed me. But you
have the right idea about the insulation. I put the insulation panels
all the way down to the frostline, 32", when I built mine. They come
even with the top edge of the block foundation, 8" above grade, and are
capped by the oversize sillplate which covers them and the block. This
entire mess is then faced with a panel of vinyl siding capped with
flashing to give a nice finished look, protect the insulation from
damage, and to allow the rain to run down over and outside the whole
assembly. This keeps the foundation from sucking out all the heat from
the GH. I did not insulate beneath the gravel floor as I only heat to 55
degrees in the winter. Thats's all they get. Usually our winters are
clear enough that most days it gets into the upper 60's in the GH. I
turn the thermostat up to 70 on watering day and the day after. With the
triplewall glazing, the foundation insulation, and being attached, it's
much more affordable to heat, which was indeed the plan.

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

Oh my oh my Al, that is back breaking work. Forget about the wenches. . . .
.. .
Can you not rent a little backho????
Cheers Wendy (Who once dug an 18" deep trench for gas pipe, about 75', used
a posthole digger)

"Al Pickrel" wrote in message
news:v4c3k.7685$lE3.3333@trnddc05...
The picture shows one quarter of my greenhouse floor space. 3/4 of it is
filled with orchids. Many many in bloom. But I want to talk about the
big
dig and so it is the subject of the picture and the rant that follows.

I added an extra 24 inches to the old knee wall when I rebuilt it after
the
fire. I am spending June digging a ditch and installing panels of
insulation against the new waste high knee wall. The knee wall is 36 to
inches
high from the ground at its greatest heights, which is in the middle. The
ground slopes downward toward the middle of the long side of the
greenhouse,
so the knee wall at each end is actually more like 22 to 24. I am digging
the ditch along the inside of the greenhouse, along the new knee wall. I
am
installing the 1.5 inch R-9 insulation panels so that they start at the
top
of the knee wall and extend 15 to 18 inches into the ground along the base
of the knee wall. These are the kind of panels you can put down below
concrete floors. In addition, I am going to add a 16 to 18 inch long
strip
of insulation horizontally against the vertical insulation barrier along
the
whole length of the wall. This will be buried about 1 foot below grade.
(That's why the ditch is so wide.) This will, I hope, make a very good
barrier against heat leaking out into the air and cold earth along the
greenhouse walls. An engineer who is also a customer told me this would
be
almost as effective as insulating the whole floor and much less disruptive
and expensive. He did not mention it would kill me to do it. This is a
massive undertaking for me alone. Before I could dig the trench, I had to
rake back the gravel floor far enough so I could work. I was not even
finished raking before I knew I would not survive to finish the OTHER SIDE
TOO. I am about ¼ done with one 98 foot side. Add 100 degree
temperatures
and humidity like you can't believe and. well, I am thirsty and tired and
it
is only 10 AM and my fourth day of this part of the task. I will be doing
this for some time I think. It is worse than digging the footings for the
deck last summer during the heat wave/draught when the ground was solid
and
the shovels kept snapping in two. Or maybe it is the same and I am just
older.

What keeps me going is the daily reports on the news about the cost of
oil.
Can you imagine what it will be next winter? I am planning for ALMOST the
worst I can think of. I am going to put a clear lexan wall up which will
divide the greenhouse in half and then I will only heat half the
greenhouse
this coming winter. The plants I have left after the fire should fit in
half the greenhouse easily. We'll see what happens after that. You can
see
the framing for this middle wall is already built in the picture. It is
the
old south wall before I went insane and doubled the length of the
structure.

The worst I can think of is not being able to afford oil at all...

Where are all the winches when you need them? I have been handing every
customer who comes though the door a shovel and trying to put them to
work.
I think the word is getting out. Walk-in customers have all but stopped
in
the last 6 weeks.

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

Al, please take Tenman's advice about hiring the kids. This is the time of
year when they are looking for work in droves.

My digging days, I think, are pretty much over. I find that I'm not as
strong as I once was. Actually, I'm thinking about some weight training to
strengthen up.

In this weather, when it is hotter where you are than here in S. FL, take it
easy. We don't want to lose you, buddy.

Wendy, that's *backhoE*! Wow, winches and wenches and backhos. What's next
on this board?

Diana ;o)

"Wendy7" wrote in message
...
Oh my oh my Al, that is back breaking work. Forget about the wenches. . .
. . .
Can you not rent a little backho????
Cheers Wendy (Who once dug an 18" deep trench for gas pipe, about 75',
used a posthole digger)

"Al Pickrel" wrote in message
news:v4c3k.7685$lE3.3333@trnddc05...
The picture shows one quarter of my greenhouse floor space. 3/4 of it is
filled with orchids. Many many in bloom. But I want to talk about the
big
dig and so it is the subject of the picture and the rant that follows.

I added an extra 24 inches to the old knee wall when I rebuilt it after
the
fire. I am spending June digging a ditch and installing panels of
insulation against the new waste high knee wall. The knee wall is 36 to
inches
high from the ground at its greatest heights, which is in the middle.
The
ground slopes downward toward the middle of the long side of the
greenhouse,
so the knee wall at each end is actually more like 22 to 24. I am
digging
the ditch along the inside of the greenhouse, along the new knee wall. I
am
installing the 1.5 inch R-9 insulation panels so that they start at the
top
of the knee wall and extend 15 to 18 inches into the ground along the
base
of the knee wall. These are the kind of panels you can put down below
concrete floors. In addition, I am going to add a 16 to 18 inch long
strip
of insulation horizontally against the vertical insulation barrier along
the
whole length of the wall. This will be buried about 1 foot below grade.
(That's why the ditch is so wide.) This will, I hope, make a very good
barrier against heat leaking out into the air and cold earth along the
greenhouse walls. An engineer who is also a customer told me this would
be
almost as effective as insulating the whole floor and much less
disruptive
and expensive. He did not mention it would kill me to do it. This is a
massive undertaking for me alone. Before I could dig the trench, I had
to
rake back the gravel floor far enough so I could work. I was not even
finished raking before I knew I would not survive to finish the OTHER
SIDE
TOO. I am about ¼ done with one 98 foot side. Add 100 degree
temperatures
and humidity like you can't believe and. well, I am thirsty and tired and
it
is only 10 AM and my fourth day of this part of the task. I will be
doing
this for some time I think. It is worse than digging the footings for
the
deck last summer during the heat wave/draught when the ground was solid
and
the shovels kept snapping in two. Or maybe it is the same and I am just
older.

What keeps me going is the daily reports on the news about the cost of
oil.
Can you imagine what it will be next winter? I am planning for ALMOST
the
worst I can think of. I am going to put a clear lexan wall up which will
divide the greenhouse in half and then I will only heat half the
greenhouse
this coming winter. The plants I have left after the fire should fit in
half the greenhouse easily. We'll see what happens after that. You can
see
the framing for this middle wall is already built in the picture. It is
the
old south wall before I went insane and doubled the length of the
structure.

The worst I can think of is not being able to afford oil at all...

Where are all the winches when you need them? I have been handing every
customer who comes though the door a shovel and trying to put them to
work.
I think the word is getting out. Walk-in customers have all but stopped
in
the last 6 weeks.

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

ROFLMAO!
Tom
Walnut Creek, CA
Nikon D200

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:37:52 -0700, Diana Kulaga wrote
(in article ):

Al, please take Tenman's advice about hiring the kids. This is the time of
year when they are looking for work in droves.

My digging days, I think, are pretty much over. I find that I'm not as
strong as I once was. Actually, I'm thinking about some weight training to
strengthen up.

In this weather, when it is hotter where you are than here in S. FL, take it
easy. We don't want to lose you, buddy.

Wendy, that's *backhoE*! Wow, winches and wenches and backhos. What's next
on this board?

Diana ;o)

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

me too. She must have done that on porpoise.

"tbell" wrote in message
.com...
ROFLMAO!
Tom
Walnut Creek, CA
Nikon D200

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:37:52 -0700, Diana Kulaga wrote
(in article ):

Al, please take Tenman's advice about hiring the kids. This is the time
of
year when they are looking for work in droves.

My digging days, I think, are pretty much over. I find that I'm not as
strong as I once was. Actually, I'm thinking about some weight training
to
strengthen up.

In this weather, when it is hotter where you are than here in S. FL, take
it
easy. We don't want to lose you, buddy.

Wendy, that's *backhoE*! Wow, winches and wenches and backhos. What's
next
on this board?

Diana ;o)

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

Nah. That sounds fishy to me.

Diana

"Al Pickrel" wrote in message
news:D5l3k.3930$3j2.2305@trnddc03...
me too. She must have done that on porpoise.

"tbell" wrote in message
.com...
ROFLMAO!
Tom
Walnut Creek, CA
Nikon D200

On Mon, 9 Jun 2008 11:37:52 -0700, Diana Kulaga wrote
(in article ):

Al, please take Tenman's advice about hiring the kids. This is the time
of
year when they are looking for work in droves.

My digging days, I think, are pretty much over. I find that I'm not as
strong as I once was. Actually, I'm thinking about some weight training
to
strengthen up.

In this weather, when it is hotter where you are than here in S. FL,
take it
easy. We don't want to lose you, buddy.

Wendy, that's *backhoE*! Wow, winches and wenches and backhos. What's
next
on this board?

Diana ;o)

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

While this has nothing to do with greenhouses nor can it compete with
digging trenches, here's the state of the state of my backyard project.
Please note: it has to be completed by the end of June when I'll be getting
married and hosting 40 people at the reception in the backyard. *This*
backyard. It was supposed to be a flagstone patio down the side of the
house with raised flower beds delimited with rockwalls. I've got 20 days to
complete the project. I don't think I'm gonna make it. Its getting hotter
around here, too. At least I have the sides of the house that'll show
during the reception painted.

I only show the pics because Al's comment that 'maybe I'm older' struck a
chord. I started planning this 5 yrs ago, xeriscaping the yard against our
cyclical droughts. Oh how I wish I'd completed it then. Somehow this ain't
gonna be the lush paradise it is in my mind....

K Barrett

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

The big take away from your post is that you're getting hitched! We will
need pictures, you know.

Your guests will care only for you and your honey. Do what you can with the
patio, but don't let the stress mess with your happy day.

Diana

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
While this has nothing to do with greenhouses nor can it compete with
digging trenches, here's the state of the state of my backyard project.
Please note: it has to be completed by the end of June when I'll be
getting married and hosting 40 people at the reception in the backyard.
*This* backyard. It was supposed to be a flagstone patio down the side of
the house with raised flower beds delimited with rockwalls. I've got 20
days to complete the project. I don't think I'm gonna make it. Its
getting hotter around here, too. At least I have the sides of the house
that'll show during the reception painted.

I only show the pics because Al's comment that 'maybe I'm older' struck a
chord. I started planning this 5 yrs ago, xeriscaping the yard against
our cyclical droughts. Oh how I wish I'd completed it then. Somehow this
ain't gonna be the lush paradise it is in my mind....

K Barrett

-rethinks her plan to come visit Al this saturday-

;)

looks very nice though.


--j_a

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

Diana Kulaga wrote:
The big take away from your post is that you're getting hitched! We will
need pictures, you know.

Your guests will care only for you and your honey.

Um, maybe...except for the orchid folks, but they'll be in the GH anyway!!

Do what you can with the
patio, but don't let the stress mess with your happy day.

Repeat what I say to myself now: What gets done, gets done. The rest
will get done when IT gets done.

Diana

but seriously, do you have a rototiller? could you borrow one? at least that would break up the dirt in the ditch and then you'd just have to shovel it out.... or a ditch witch? maybe worth renting one?

--j_a

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

I should do a before and after. Not only of the yard but of me too. I tell
you, moving rocks is a great way to lose a few pounds. I have some really
sexy L purpuratas with pulchritudinous lips that'll knock yer socks off that
I may use in the bouquet. Or L purpurata suavissima if I go traditional..
*G*

K

"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
The big take away from your post is that you're getting hitched! We will
need pictures, you know.

Your guests will care only for you and your honey. Do what you can with
the patio, but don't let the stress mess with your happy day.

Diana

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
While this has nothing to do with greenhouses nor can it compete with
digging trenches, here's the state of the state of my backyard project.
Please note: it has to be completed by the end of June when I'll be
getting married and hosting 40 people at the reception in the backyard.
*This* backyard. It was supposed to be a flagstone patio down the side
of the house with raised flower beds delimited with rockwalls. I've got
20 days to complete the project. I don't think I'm gonna make it. Its
getting hotter around here, too. At least I have the sides of the house
that'll show during the reception painted.

I only show the pics because Al's comment that 'maybe I'm older' struck a
chord. I started planning this 5 yrs ago, xeriscaping the yard against
our cyclical droughts. Oh how I wish I'd completed it then. Somehow this
ain't gonna be the lush paradise it is in my mind....

K Barrett

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

"tenman" wrote in message
news:T4idnc2O64qhJdPVnZ2dnUVZ_trinZ2d@wideopenwest .com...
Diana Kulaga wrote:
The big take away from your post is that you're getting hitched! We will
need pictures, you know.

Your guests will care only for you and your honey.

Um, maybe...except for the orchid folks, but they'll be in the GH anyway!!

Do what you can with the
patio, but don't let the stress mess with your happy day.

Repeat what I say to myself now: What gets done, gets done. The rest will
get done when IT gets done.

I've already started saying 'Welll, *that's* not gonna happen...' whenever
someone asks how the project is coming, LOL! The 'save for later' list is
longer than the 'to be completed' list.

K

My Greenhouse: a warning to those who still wish for one...
 

Well now the undone things go on the "honey do" list.

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
I should do a before and after. Not only of the yard but of me too. I
tell you, moving rocks is a great way to lose a few pounds. I have some
really sexy L purpuratas with pulchritudinous lips that'll knock yer socks
off that I may use in the bouquet. Or L purpurata suavissima if I go
traditional.. *G*

K

"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
The big take away from your post is that you're getting hitched! We will
need pictures, you know.

Your guests will care only for you and your honey. Do what you can with
the patio, but don't let the stress mess with your happy day.

Diana

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
While this has nothing to do with greenhouses nor can it compete with
digging trenches, here's the state of the state of my backyard project.
Please note: it has to be completed by the end of June when I'll be
getting married and hosting 40 people at the reception in the backyard.
*This* backyard. It was supposed to be a flagstone patio down the side
of the house with raised flower beds delimited with rockwalls. I've got
20 days to complete the project. I don't think I'm gonna make it. Its
getting hotter around here, too. At least I have the sides of the house
that'll show during the reception painted.

I only show the pics because Al's comment that 'maybe I'm older' struck
a chord. I started planning this 5 yrs ago, xeriscaping the yard
against our cyclical droughts. Oh how I wish I'd completed it then.
Somehow this ain't gonna be the lush paradise it is in my mind....

K Barrett