So yeah...they're simply not flowering.

I dunno what else to try.

I've been putting one plant out at night - just to see if this will
encourage a flower spike to form - but so far no luck (I'm in fairly
temperate zone and was told this can help to encourage the plant to know
when it's night-time, and when it's day-time, as it were...)

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.


But neither variation (I have 3 plants - 2x of the Phal - sorry I can't
remember the variety; 1x of this Exotic ('Burrageara' - Cochlioda, Miltonia,
Odontoglossum, Oncidium cross)) is flowering!

The flowers dropped off about a month after I got home on both plants (I
bought two - have since split the Phal into two seperate plants - but that
was a while ago) - but no new spikes developed, or I think one did, but it
died fairly early on and quite immature.

I've had them for nearly a year, I think, and they've maintained their
health - large, thick, luscious leaves that don't stop growing it seems,
nice firm hearts, but NO FLOWERS!

I'm not a true Orchid fanatic, but I do love Phals...and after all I got the
things for the flowering aspect!!

They're in 'medium' orchid potting mix, in plastic pots with plenty of
drainage holes, which are then placed in larger ceramic, decorative pots
surrounded with sphagnum (again, big drainage holes at the bottom of the
pot).
I'll let the sphag dry out, then give them a good water - every few weeks
I'll soak the entire plant (well, the roots) in water and sometimes an
orchid fertiliser (made strictly according to instructions).

One of my conerns is, I have not allowed any of the roots/tubers to see the
sun - they're all covered by the sphag or the potting mix. Could this be a
source of the problem? I've noticed in nurseries that their healthy
(flowering!) orchids (phals et al.) have a few tubers open to the air, green
and healthy-looking.


Long post, I know, but oh please please please you extremely knowledgeable
Orchid lovers!!!!
*cry*
I just want my lovely orchid flowers!

Many, many, many TIA!


PS. Live in Melbourne, Australia.
I can post pics if absolutely necessary! But it takes a little fiddling
around...

Dragoncarer,

Yes, you can post pictures on your ISP with a clickable URL on RGO... but
please no pictures (or fiddling) on RGO.

Thanks,

Mick

"Mick Fournier" wrote in message
...
Dragoncarer,

Yes, you can post pictures on your ISP with a clickable URL on RGO... but
please no pictures (or fiddling) on RGO.

Thanks,

Mick



Oh I should be able to post on a.b.p.orchids if it's necessary...but do you
have any ideas before I go to the trouble of taking pictures, developing
them, finding a scanner to borrow, editing them and uploading them?
Thanks.

Dragoncarer,

First, a question in response to this statement of yours:
have since split the Phal into two seperate plants - but that was a while
ago

What exactly did you do to this Phal? How did you split it? Was there more
than one Phal in the plant pot when you bought it? Or did it have a basal
keikie (a seperate new plantlet)? Because if not, one does not split Phals,
and depending on what exactly you did, you may have killed the plant.

My understanding is that for a healthy Phal, the three main reasons why it
might not reflower a (1) not enough light; and (2) not enough temperature
difference between night and day; and (3) impatient human not realizing that
it's not time to reflower yet. Let me explain these three points.

(1) light: Even though Phals like low light conditions, this is only low
light in comparison to other orchids, but they still need more light than
most leafy houseplants. Do you have a window that gets morning sun? If so,
that would be ideal. Put the Phals and the Burrageara on the window sill and
keep them there for most or all of the year -- it is ok to move them away
from the window when they are in flower, but be sure to give them enough
light otherwise. However, if you have only a window that has midday sun (is
that a northern window in Australia?) that would be too much sun, so you'd
want a sheer curtain or move the plant further from the window. A window
that faces north in the northern hemisphere, so I guess that would be south
in Australia, that won't might not provide enough light for a Phal to
reflower, and you may need to supplement with grow lights of some sort.

(2) temperature difference: in order to initiate spiking (start the process
that leads to reflowering), Phals need a difference of about 10 to 15
degrees Fahrenheit between night and day temperatures -- so for example a
night temp of 60 degrees and a day temp of 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Since you
are putting the phal outside for the night, I assume that you are taking
care of that, unless in your climate the nights do not get cool enough or
get too cold (I would not expose a Phal to lower temp than 55 degrees
Fahrenheit).

(3) impatience of human: How long have you have these orchids? Generally you
can expect a Phal to reflower about a year after it started flowering
previously. Also a change in its growing conditions (from vendor's
greenhouse to your home) may cause it to reflower later than it otherwise
would have. So be patient. If of course you have had the orchids for much
longer than a year, and they have not reflowered, then consider changing
their conditions -- sometimes moving the orchids to a different spot that
they might prefer, could make all the difference.

I hope this helps,
Joanna

"Dragoncarer" wrote in message
...
So yeah...they're simply not flowering.

I dunno what else to try.

I've been putting one plant out at night - just to see if this will
encourage a flower spike to form - but so far no luck (I'm in fairly
temperate zone and was told this can help to encourage the plant to know
when it's night-time, and when it's day-time, as it were...)

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.


But neither variation (I have 3 plants - 2x of the Phal - sorry I can't
remember the variety; 1x of this Exotic ('Burrageara' - Cochlioda,
Miltonia,
Odontoglossum, Oncidium cross)) is flowering!

The flowers dropped off about a month after I got home on both plants (I
bought two - have since split the Phal into two seperate plants - but that
was a while ago) - but no new spikes developed, or I think one did, but it
died fairly early on and quite immature.

I've had them for nearly a year, I think, and they've maintained their
health - large, thick, luscious leaves that don't stop growing it seems,
nice firm hearts, but NO FLOWERS!

I'm not a true Orchid fanatic, but I do love Phals...and after all I got
the
things for the flowering aspect!!

They're in 'medium' orchid potting mix, in plastic pots with plenty of
drainage holes, which are then placed in larger ceramic, decorative pots
surrounded with sphagnum (again, big drainage holes at the bottom of the
pot).
I'll let the sphag dry out, then give them a good water - every few weeks
I'll soak the entire plant (well, the roots) in water and sometimes an
orchid fertiliser (made strictly according to instructions).

One of my conerns is, I have not allowed any of the roots/tubers to see
the
sun - they're all covered by the sphag or the potting mix. Could this be a
source of the problem? I've noticed in nurseries that their healthy
(flowering!) orchids (phals et al.) have a few tubers open to the air,
green
and healthy-looking.


Long post, I know, but oh please please please you extremely knowledgeable
Orchid lovers!!!!
*cry*
I just want my lovely orchid flowers!

Many, many, many TIA!


PS. Live in Melbourne, Australia.
I can post pics if absolutely necessary! But it takes a little fiddling
around...

A few additional comments:

Are you sure that it is a Phal and not a Phalaenopsis type Dendrobium? If it
has canes then it is a Dendrobium, and then splitting the plant makes more
sense.

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.

If this is a phal and not a dendrobium, and all the leaves fell off, then
this phal is dead, and can be tossed in the garbage. I am not sure whether a
dendrobium can function without leaves, since I don't grow them myself, but
a phal defitily needs leaves.

I've had them for nearly a year

Ah, I should have noticed this before, sorry. "Nearly" a year may not be
enough time for them to reflower, wait a bit longer.

One of my concerns is, I have not allowed any of the roots/tubers to see
the
sun - they're all covered by the sphag or the potting mix. Could this be a
source of the problem? I've noticed in nurseries that their healthy
(flowering!) orchids (phals et al.) have a few tubers open to the air,
green
and healthy-looking.


Aerial roots while a good thing are not a requirement for a phal to rebloom.
However, when you say that you have not allowed them to see the sun, do you
mean that you have actively been burying roots in the medium even if they
emerge above it? If so, you may have accidentally buried a flower spike,
since in Phals flower spikes and roots look alike to an inexperienced
grower. Just a thought. However, if you mean that you have just not
uncovered any roots, then that's ok, as mentioned a phal does not need
aerial roots to reflower.

Best,
Joanna

"Dragoncarer" wrote in message
...
So yeah...they're simply not flowering.

I dunno what else to try.

I've been putting one plant out at night - just to see if this will
encourage a flower spike to form - but so far no luck (I'm in fairly
temperate zone and was told this can help to encourage the plant to know
when it's night-time, and when it's day-time, as it were...)

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.


But neither variation (I have 3 plants - 2x of the Phal - sorry I can't
remember the variety; 1x of this Exotic ('Burrageara' - Cochlioda,
Miltonia,
Odontoglossum, Oncidium cross)) is flowering!

The flowers dropped off about a month after I got home on both plants (I
bought two - have since split the Phal into two seperate plants - but that
was a while ago) - but no new spikes developed, or I think one did, but it
died fairly early on and quite immature.

I've had them for nearly a year, I think, and they've maintained their
health - large, thick, luscious leaves that don't stop growing it seems,
nice firm hearts, but NO FLOWERS!

I'm not a true Orchid fanatic, but I do love Phals...and after all I got
the
things for the flowering aspect!!

They're in 'medium' orchid potting mix, in plastic pots with plenty of
drainage holes, which are then placed in larger ceramic, decorative pots
surrounded with sphagnum (again, big drainage holes at the bottom of the
pot).
I'll let the sphag dry out, then give them a good water - every few weeks
I'll soak the entire plant (well, the roots) in water and sometimes an
orchid fertiliser (made strictly according to instructions).

One of my conerns is, I have not allowed any of the roots/tubers to see
the
sun - they're all covered by the sphag or the potting mix. Could this be a
source of the problem? I've noticed in nurseries that their healthy
(flowering!) orchids (phals et al.) have a few tubers open to the air,
green
and healthy-looking.


Long post, I know, but oh please please please you extremely knowledgeable
Orchid lovers!!!!
*cry*
I just want my lovely orchid flowers!

Many, many, many TIA!


PS. Live in Melbourne, Australia.
I can post pics if absolutely necessary! But it takes a little fiddling
around...

On Fri, 07 Oct 2005 13:27:31 GMT in 7Ju1f.7$3w.2@trnddc07 J Fortuna wrote:
A few additional comments:

Are you sure that it is a Phal and not a Phalaenopsis type Dendrobium? If it
has canes then it is a Dendrobium, and then splitting the plant makes more
sense.

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.

If this is a phal and not a dendrobium, and all the leaves fell off, then
this phal is dead, and can be tossed in the garbage. I am not sure whether a
dendrobium can function without leaves, since I don't grow them myself, but
a phal defitily needs leaves.

Depends on the dendrobium.
The first phal that ever survived me was potted with a phal type
dendrobium. The Den finally got around to putting out new growth
when it had dropped its last leaf (Although mites were responsible for
that, not because it was deciduous).



--
Chris Dukes
Suspicion breeds confidence -- Brazil

"J Fortuna" wrote in message
news:hdu1f.9372$Tz2.7804@trnddc02...
Dragoncarer,

First, a question in response to this statement of yours:
have since split the Phal into two seperate plants - but that was a while
ago

What exactly did you do to this Phal? How did you split it? Was there more
than one Phal in the plant pot when you bought it? Or did it have a basal
keikie (a seperate new plantlet)? Because if not, one does not split
Phals,
and depending on what exactly you did, you may have killed the plant.


Yeah, my fault, it had a...uhm...basal keikie? I believe it was small when I
bought it, and upon repotting it a while ago I put it into it's own pot.

No! I would never 'split' my phal! Foolish me to say I did so!
*embarassment*.

My understanding is that for a healthy Phal, the three main reasons why it
might not reflower a (1) not enough light; and (2) not enough
temperature
difference between night and day; and (3) impatient human not realizing
that
it's not time to reflower yet. Let me explain these three points.

(1) light: Even though Phals like low light conditions, this is only low
light in comparison to other orchids, but they still need more light than
most leafy houseplants. Do you have a window that gets morning sun? If so,
that would be ideal. Put the Phals and the Burrageara on the window sill
and
keep them there for most or all of the year -- it is ok to move them away
from the window when they are in flower, but be sure to give them enough
light otherwise. However, if you have only a window that has midday sun
(is
that a northern window in Australia?) that would be too much sun, so you'd
want a sheer curtain or move the plant further from the window. A window
that faces north in the northern hemisphere, so I guess that would be
south
in Australia, that won't might not provide enough light for a Phal to
reflower, and you may need to supplement with grow lights of some sort.


OK. I had them in a south-facing room for a long time. But due to a close
fence, they didn't receive large volumes of light. I've moved the plants
around, so that one is now in a North-facing room, however it only receives
sun for part of the day - and not the full, intense afternoon sun. Another
one is in the same sort of position. I'll try and find a brighter,
south-facing spot for them.

(2) temperature difference: in order to initiate spiking (start the
process
that leads to reflowering), Phals need a difference of about 10 to 15
degrees Fahrenheit between night and day temperatures -- so for example a
night temp of 60 degrees and a day temp of 75 degrees Fahrenheit. Since
you
are putting the phal outside for the night, I assume that you are taking
care of that, unless in your climate the nights do not get cool enough or
get too cold (I would not expose a Phal to lower temp than 55 degrees
Fahrenheit).


Yep. I've been doing that! Not for too long though.

(3) impatience of human: How long have you have these orchids? Generally
you
can expect a Phal to reflower about a year after it started flowering
previously. Also a change in its growing conditions (from vendor's
greenhouse to your home) may cause it to reflower later than it otherwise
would have. So be patient. If of course you have had the orchids for much
longer than a year, and they have not reflowered, then consider changing
their conditions -- sometimes moving the orchids to a different spot that
they might prefer, could make all the difference.


OK, I'm fairly sure it hasn't quite been a year that I've had them. I just
thought they would have spiked by now. I guess not. The change in location
that you describe also makes sense.

I hope this helps,
Joanna


Oh, it does. Thanks Joanna.

The most important thing is to know that I'm not necessarily doing anything
wrong, or completely naughty. It just a matter of patience. Thanks!

"Dragoncarer" wrote in message
...
So yeah...they're simply not flowering.

I dunno what else to try.

I've been putting one plant out at night - just to see if this will
encourage a flower spike to form - but so far no luck (I'm in fairly
temperate zone and was told this can help to encourage the plant to know
when it's night-time, and when it's day-time, as it were...)

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.


But neither variation (I have 3 plants - 2x of the Phal - sorry I can't
remember the variety; 1x of this Exotic ('Burrageara' - Cochlioda,
Miltonia,
Odontoglossum, Oncidium cross)) is flowering!

The flowers dropped off about a month after I got home on both plants (I
bought two - have since split the Phal into two seperate plants - but
that
was a while ago) - but no new spikes developed, or I think one did, but
it
died fairly early on and quite immature.

I've had them for nearly a year, I think, and they've maintained their
health - large, thick, luscious leaves that don't stop growing it seems,
nice firm hearts, but NO FLOWERS!

I'm not a true Orchid fanatic, but I do love Phals...and after all I got
the
things for the flowering aspect!!

They're in 'medium' orchid potting mix, in plastic pots with plenty of
drainage holes, which are then placed in larger ceramic, decorative pots
surrounded with sphagnum (again, big drainage holes at the bottom of the
pot).
I'll let the sphag dry out, then give them a good water - every few weeks
I'll soak the entire plant (well, the roots) in water and sometimes an
orchid fertiliser (made strictly according to instructions).

One of my conerns is, I have not allowed any of the roots/tubers to see
the
sun - they're all covered by the sphag or the potting mix. Could this be
a
source of the problem? I've noticed in nurseries that their healthy
(flowering!) orchids (phals et al.) have a few tubers open to the air,
green
and healthy-looking.


Long post, I know, but oh please please please you extremely
knowledgeable
Orchid lovers!!!!
*cry*
I just want my lovely orchid flowers!

Many, many, many TIA!


PS. Live in Melbourne, Australia.
I can post pics if absolutely necessary! But it takes a little fiddling
around...

"J Fortuna" wrote in message
news:7Ju1f.7$3w.2@trnddc07...
A few additional comments:

Are you sure that it is a Phal and not a Phalaenopsis type Dendrobium? If
it
has canes then it is a Dendrobium, and then splitting the plant makes more
sense.


I was pretty sure it was a true phal - and I just checked to see what a
denrobium's canes look like - it's definitely a phal.

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.

If this is a phal and not a dendrobium, and all the leaves fell off, then
this phal is dead, and can be tossed in the garbage. I am not sure whether
a
dendrobium can function without leaves, since I don't grow them myself,
but
a phal defitily needs leaves.

*sigh*
What I find strange though is that the plant has been healthy for such a
long time. It just, literally, suddenly started dropping leaves. OK, thanks.


I've had them for nearly a year

Ah, I should have noticed this before, sorry. "Nearly" a year may not be
enough time for them to reflower, wait a bit longer.


Yeah

One of my concerns is, I have not allowed any of the roots/tubers to see
the
sun - they're all covered by the sphag or the potting mix. Could this be
a
source of the problem? I've noticed in nurseries that their healthy
(flowering!) orchids (phals et al.) have a few tubers open to the air,
green
and healthy-looking.


Aerial roots while a good thing are not a requirement for a phal to
rebloom.
However, when you say that you have not allowed them to see the sun, do
you
mean that you have actively been burying roots in the medium even if they
emerge above it? If so, you may have accidentally buried a flower spike,
since in Phals flower spikes and roots look alike to an inexperienced
grower. Just a thought. However, if you mean that you have just not
uncovered any roots, then that's ok, as mentioned a phal does not need
aerial roots to reflower.


No no, I haven't purposefully buried the roots. And I've checked carfully to
see if any spikes have been developing - but as I said, nothing so far.

Best,
Joanna

Again, many thanks!


"Dragoncarer" wrote in message
...
So yeah...they're simply not flowering.

I dunno what else to try.

I've been putting one plant out at night - just to see if this will
encourage a flower spike to form - but so far no luck (I'm in fairly
temperate zone and was told this can help to encourage the plant to know
when it's night-time, and when it's day-time, as it were...)

Just recently one of the phals has started to 'cark' it...the leaves all
fell off, yet the 'heart' is still firm, green and healthy looking.


But neither variation (I have 3 plants - 2x of the Phal - sorry I can't
remember the variety; 1x of this Exotic ('Burrageara' - Cochlioda,
Miltonia,
Odontoglossum, Oncidium cross)) is flowering!

The flowers dropped off about a month after I got home on both plants (I
bought two - have since split the Phal into two seperate plants - but
that
was a while ago) - but no new spikes developed, or I think one did, but
it
died fairly early on and quite immature.

I've had them for nearly a year, I think, and they've maintained their
health - large, thick, luscious leaves that don't stop growing it seems,
nice firm hearts, but NO FLOWERS!

I'm not a true Orchid fanatic, but I do love Phals...and after all I got
the
things for the flowering aspect!!

They're in 'medium' orchid potting mix, in plastic pots with plenty of
drainage holes, which are then placed in larger ceramic, decorative pots
surrounded with sphagnum (again, big drainage holes at the bottom of the
pot).
I'll let the sphag dry out, then give them a good water - every few weeks
I'll soak the entire plant (well, the roots) in water and sometimes an
orchid fertiliser (made strictly according to instructions).

One of my conerns is, I have not allowed any of the roots/tubers to see
the
sun - they're all covered by the sphag or the potting mix. Could this be
a
source of the problem? I've noticed in nurseries that their healthy
(flowering!) orchids (phals et al.) have a few tubers open to the air,
green
and healthy-looking.


Long post, I know, but oh please please please you extremely
knowledgeable
Orchid lovers!!!!
*cry*
I just want my lovely orchid flowers!

Many, many, many TIA!


PS. Live in Melbourne, Australia.
I can post pics if absolutely necessary! But it takes a little fiddling
around...

You probably have the same problems I have. If you are trying to grow in the
house you have low humidity, lack of sufficient temperature change (10 to 15
degrees day/nite change) and possibly not enough light. The light problem
can be solved by moving the plant or using artifical light as a supplement
to natural light. Don't put your Phals in the midday sun. They will burn and
the leaves may all fall off. One of my vandas was in spike and budding
untill I brought it in due to outdoor temps getting risky at night. Within 2
weeks the buds died and the spike started drying. My plant room is easily
kept at 75% to 80% humidity with a fan andsome humidity trays, a 2 gallon
room humidifier and one of those little mister fountains. I use a water
container with more surface area for the mister so water level drops slower.
If you let water run low it burns out the mister. And if you use kiki paste
on a dormant phal spike it will bloom if there is suficient light. If the
light is low a kiki will form instead of blooms. This could sterss the plant
so dont experiment with weak plants. Kiki paste will also create branches
that usually bloom at different times. This method is forcing the plant to
bloom when it normally wouldnt so use some caution since this is a drain on
the plant. The tempature change is dificult in a house. I have yet to come
up with a good system for this. An open window at night works here but is
very risky in centeral Indiana. A sudden cold snap while I sleep could turn
my plant room into a plant moruge in amatter of hours. Indiana can go from a
pleasant 40's or 50's evening to 0 degrees and 100 mph blizzard conditions
while you sleep. This does not happen often but who wants to risk their
orchids just for some blooms. You will appreciate them for their foliage and
roots more as time goes by. Patience is all you need. With a little care
those orchids will out live your great great grandchildren and then some. In
China one family has posessed the same orchid for 1200 years. Patience! Hop
I was of some help.
I dont know what "cark" it means but it dosen't sound healthy. The only Phal
I had that lost all its leaves had root rot. It grew a kiki trying to save
itself. I mounted the one root crown with the spike and kiki and it looks
good now. Got lucky on that one.

Good Luck
Roger in Indy

"I would like to go just one week without making any crashing sounds"


"Dragoncarer" wrote in message
...
So yeah...they're simply not flowering.

I dunno what else to try.