I live in Southern California (Pasadena area) and, due to a small house
and anti-plant-people in same, need to move my orchids outside. Before
I do so, I'm thinking about what I'll need to set-up for the move to be
successful. Currently I have 5 phals and 1 oncidium cross (Colmanara
Wildcat) that are healthy, each seated over a humidity tray, with
plenty of light from their own window.

I've already discarded most beginner greenhouses b/c they don't allow
enough space between shelves, are too flimsy, or are too big. So I'm
planning to take an old desk, nail wood supports up from which to drape
humidity-trapping plastic and light-abating greenhouse netting, and
place the plants under that.

Will that work? Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm concerned that
extremes of cold (sometimes around 45 at night in winter) and heat
(sometimes around 100 in the summer) will kill them. Do you think I'll
need some sort of fan, heater, cooler system for them to thrive, or
will they be fine with just the light and humidity controls I
mentioned?

I really wish there were some kit for a 4' x 2' x 6' outdoor orchid
case that could really pamper them. Hmmm. Maybe that's what I should
do: enclose the walls with plexiglass, cut holes for computer-type
fans, and have a computer control the humidity, temp, etc. according to
a program.

As you can see, I need some practical guidance or I might under/over do
it. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

-Munir

Munir wrote:
I live in Southern California (Pasadena area) and, due to a small house
and anti-plant-people in same, need to move my orchids outside. Before
I do so, I'm thinking about what I'll need to set-up for the move to be
successful. Currently I have 5 phals and 1 oncidium cross (Colmanara
Wildcat) that are healthy, each seated over a humidity tray, with
plenty of light from their own window.

I've already discarded most beginner greenhouses b/c they don't allow
enough space between shelves, are too flimsy, or are too big. So I'm
planning to take an old desk, nail wood supports up from which to drape
humidity-trapping plastic and light-abating greenhouse netting, and
place the plants under that.

Will that work? Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm concerned that
extremes of cold (sometimes around 45 at night in winter) and heat
(sometimes around 100 in the summer) will kill them. Do you think I'll
need some sort of fan, heater, cooler system for them to thrive, or
will they be fine with just the light and humidity controls I
mentioned?

I really wish there were some kit for a 4' x 2' x 6' outdoor orchid
case that could really pamper them. Hmmm. Maybe that's what I should
do: enclose the walls with plexiglass, cut holes for computer-type
fans, and have a computer control the humidity, temp, etc. according to
a program.

As you can see, I need some practical guidance or I might under/over do
it. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

-Munir



Well, wrong time of year to move these plants outside. The sudden
temperature changes would either cause their demise or set them back...

However you are stuck.

Charley's Greenhouse has a small greenhouse set up of the dimensions you
desccribe. I believe it will be hard to keep a consistent temperature
in such a small volume, but you are up against forces more powerful than
you are. http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/ Also check Costco
http://www.costco.com for their mini greenhouses. you have to put
'greenhouse' in their search function in order to find the greenhouses.

By copying their ideas you may be able to design something yourself for
less.

Your idea of the computer fan for air movement could be supplemented
with a 'sick room' humidifier (Costco) and a small electric oil heater
(Costco). Charley's has a plug-in thermostat ($). Benches could be put
together from PVC and eggcrate plastic (found as light diffusers in the
lighting aisle) or just use the plastic shelving units from Home Depot
(which Costco probably has too).

K Barrett

K Barrett wrote:
Munir wrote:

I live in Southern California (Pasadena area) and, due to a small house
and anti-plant-people in same, need to move my orchids outside. Before
I do so, I'm thinking about what I'll need to set-up for the move to be
successful. Currently I have 5 phals and 1 oncidium cross (Colmanara
Wildcat) that are healthy, each seated over a humidity tray, with
plenty of light from their own window.

I've already discarded most beginner greenhouses b/c they don't allow
enough space between shelves, are too flimsy, or are too big. So I'm
planning to take an old desk, nail wood supports up from which to drape
humidity-trapping plastic and light-abating greenhouse netting, and
place the plants under that.

Will that work? Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm concerned that
extremes of cold (sometimes around 45 at night in winter) and heat
(sometimes around 100 in the summer) will kill them. Do you think I'll
need some sort of fan, heater, cooler system for them to thrive, or
will they be fine with just the light and humidity controls I
mentioned?

I really wish there were some kit for a 4' x 2' x 6' outdoor orchid
case that could really pamper them. Hmmm. Maybe that's what I should
do: enclose the walls with plexiglass, cut holes for computer-type
fans, and have a computer control the humidity, temp, etc. according to
a program.

As you can see, I need some practical guidance or I might under/over do
it. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

-Munir



Well, wrong time of year to move these plants outside. The sudden
temperature changes would either cause their demise or set them back...

However you are stuck.

Charley's Greenhouse has a small greenhouse set up of the dimensions you
desccribe. I believe it will be hard to keep a consistent temperature
in such a small volume, but you are up against forces more powerful than
you are. http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/ Also check Costco
http://www.costco.com for their mini greenhouses. you have to put
'greenhouse' in their search function in order to find the greenhouses.

By copying their ideas you may be able to design something yourself for
less.

Your idea of the computer fan for air movement could be supplemented
with a 'sick room' humidifier (Costco) and a small electric oil heater
(Costco). Charley's has a plug-in thermostat ($). Benches could be put
together from PVC and eggcrate plastic (found as light diffusers in the
lighting aisle) or just use the plastic shelving units from Home Depot
(which Costco probably has too).

K Barrett

BTW, the small greenhouses at Charley's are found under 'Season
Extenders' at the bottom of their product menu.

K

K Barrett wrote:
K Barrett wrote:

Munir wrote:

I live in Southern California (Pasadena area) and, due to a small house
and anti-plant-people in same, need to move my orchids outside. Before
I do so, I'm thinking about what I'll need to set-up for the move to be
successful. Currently I have 5 phals and 1 oncidium cross (Colmanara
Wildcat) that are healthy, each seated over a humidity tray, with
plenty of light from their own window.

I've already discarded most beginner greenhouses b/c they don't allow
enough space between shelves, are too flimsy, or are too big. So I'm
planning to take an old desk, nail wood supports up from which to drape
humidity-trapping plastic and light-abating greenhouse netting, and
place the plants under that.

Will that work? Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm concerned that
extremes of cold (sometimes around 45 at night in winter) and heat
(sometimes around 100 in the summer) will kill them. Do you think I'll
need some sort of fan, heater, cooler system for them to thrive, or
will they be fine with just the light and humidity controls I
mentioned?

I really wish there were some kit for a 4' x 2' x 6' outdoor orchid
case that could really pamper them. Hmmm. Maybe that's what I should
do: enclose the walls with plexiglass, cut holes for computer-type
fans, and have a computer control the humidity, temp, etc. according to
a program.

As you can see, I need some practical guidance or I might under/over do
it. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

-Munir



Well, wrong time of year to move these plants outside. The sudden
temperature changes would either cause their demise or set them back...

However you are stuck.

Charley's Greenhouse has a small greenhouse set up of the dimensions
you desccribe. I believe it will be hard to keep a consistent
temperature in such a small volume, but you are up against forces more
powerful than you are. http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com/ Also check
Costco http://www.costco.com for their mini greenhouses. you have to
put 'greenhouse' in their search function in order to find the
greenhouses.

By copying their ideas you may be able to design something yourself
for less.

Your idea of the computer fan for air movement could be supplemented
with a 'sick room' humidifier (Costco) and a small electric oil heater
(Costco). Charley's has a plug-in thermostat ($). Benches could be
put together from PVC and eggcrate plastic (found as light diffusers
in the lighting aisle) or just use the plastic shelving units from
Home Depot (which Costco probably has too).

K Barrett


BTW, the small greenhouses at Charley's are found under 'Season
Extenders' at the bottom of their product menu.

K

And, (boy will I never shut up?) Charley's has a tutorial about
heating/cooling requirements so you can learn what I meant when I said
it will be hard to keep such a small volume consistent.

K

Before I came to my senses, I had considered a "Rion" greenhouse
kit. They're somewhere between "backyard amateur" and "professional
grade," but they seem well-designed and very tough. They have mini
greenhouses, hobby greenhouses, and even some lean-to structures that
aren't bad.

They use twinwall polycarbonate, and can supposedly take 80 MPH
winds and a snow load of 1100 pounds- although they don't specify which
model that is. They have pictures of one four-panel model covered with
sandbags, and another of an eight-panel model with four people sitting on
the roof.

Anyway- never owned one, never saw one, but they have them on
"eBay" and a Google search will turn up plenty of direct sales links. I
backed out when I finally thought hard enough about the expense of backup
power systems, and how I'd lose everything in 10 minutes here in Phoenix
in the summer.

I'll stick to flasking.

The email in the header is bogus. Send no mail there.

-AJHicks
Chandler, AZ

I'd move my roommates outside instead!

Your phals will most likely be toast within a few weeks of your cold nights.
Give them to a friend instead and enjoy nice phals at the orchid shows.
Like roommates, eventually they are trouble anyway.

Instead of dealing with the hassle of a greenhouse for your small space, I'd
give the phals away, keep the Colmanara inside over the winter then build a
shade house/cover for your brand new collection in the Spring.

You live in a great part of the country to grow orchids outside under shade.
I'd go visit Andy's Orchids just to the south in Encinitas, CA in the Spring
and give him $1500 to put together for you a nice collection of plants that
grow and flower easily and can be kept outdoors in your part of the state.

You will probably want to get started on the shadehouse this weekend. Pick
a simple wood pergola design and get some help from your lame roommates.
Cover it with 50% or so shadecloth and add plenty of space to hang plants
from the overhead. Run a PVC waterline if you don't have a spigot handy.
Get a standard timer and a sprinkler system control valve. You can easily
fabricate a watering/sprinkler system for your plants that need to be
watered every day.

Andy is at http://www.andysorchids.com/.

Good luck and enjoy your new plants!!!

Garland


"Munir" wrote in message
ups.com...
I live in Southern California (Pasadena area) and, due to a small house
and anti-plant-people in same, need to move my orchids outside. Before
I do so, I'm thinking about what I'll need to set-up for the move to be
successful. Currently I have 5 phals and 1 oncidium cross (Colmanara
Wildcat) that are healthy, each seated over a humidity tray, with
plenty of light from their own window.

I've already discarded most beginner greenhouses b/c they don't allow
enough space between shelves, are too flimsy, or are too big. So I'm
planning to take an old desk, nail wood supports up from which to drape
humidity-trapping plastic and light-abating greenhouse netting, and
place the plants under that.

Will that work? Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I'm concerned that
extremes of cold (sometimes around 45 at night in winter) and heat
(sometimes around 100 in the summer) will kill them. Do you think I'll
need some sort of fan, heater, cooler system for them to thrive, or
will they be fine with just the light and humidity controls I
mentioned?

I really wish there were some kit for a 4' x 2' x 6' outdoor orchid
case that could really pamper them. Hmmm. Maybe that's what I should
do: enclose the walls with plexiglass, cut holes for computer-type
fans, and have a computer control the humidity, temp, etc. according to
a program.

As you can see, I need some practical guidance or I might under/over do
it. Any help appreciated. Thanks!

-Munir

After thinking things over, here's my reply/plan:

I'm trying to view this as an opportunity, rather than a problem, to
set-up a nice outdoor greenhouse. And I think I may have overstated the
temperature swings here. The temps I stated were worst case, one-day
values that don't often occur. The City of Pasadena Web site says
that the average daily temp is 76 and the average nightly temp is 55.
According to my Ortho book on Orchids, that seems to fall in the range
of most orchids--including phals--and I do know local orchid vendors
that grow a substantial number of orchids (including all their phals)
outdoors.

I did look at the Rion greenhouses and compare with others. But in the
end I've decided to use my modest woodworking skills to put together my
own, custom-sized, greenhouse frame and then build racks inside with
enough space to allow me to expand my collection. With the money saved,
installing automated temperature control and/or watering is a real
possibility. So this could all work out.

As for the housemates, they're actually in-laws. To make a long story
short we sold our old place in order to move to a new place, but there
was almost nothing on the market. So we ended up staying here since
we're already part owners. It now appears that we'll be buying the
place. While most people here will eventually move, for now we're
sharing.

The in-laws have strange ideas about plants--such as being a source of
bugs and night-time stealers of oxygen. I'm a science person but, since
these objections are made in another language, it's hard for me to win
the debate. And I must admit that moving the orchids to a dedicated
area will free up needed space and be safer for the orchids in the end.
(I've already had to move them four times for purposes of construction
and other household activities, and two of them have each been knocked
over twice--one requiring a complete replanting.)

Thanks for your help, everyone! I'm moving them a fifth time tomorrow
and then, after construction next week, hopefully out to the new
growing area. If something isn't going to make it outdoors, or if
weather gets extreme, I have pre-approval to move a couple plants
inside or, temporarily, move them all inside for an orchid slumber
party. Wish me luck: there's some elbow grease required now.

-Munir

Munir wrote:
After thinking things over, here's my reply/plan:

I'm trying to view this as an opportunity, rather than a problem, to
set-up a nice outdoor greenhouse. And I think I may have overstated the
temperature swings here. The temps I stated were worst case, one-day
values that don't often occur. The City of Pasadena Web site says
that the average daily temp is 76 and the average nightly temp is 55.
According to my Ortho book on Orchids, that seems to fall in the range
of most orchids--including phals--and I do know local orchid vendors
that grow a substantial number of orchids (including all their phals)
outdoors.

I did look at the Rion greenhouses and compare with others. But in the
end I've decided to use my modest woodworking skills to put together my
own, custom-sized, greenhouse frame and then build racks inside with
enough space to allow me to expand my collection. With the money saved,
installing automated temperature control and/or watering is a real
possibility. So this could all work out.

As for the housemates, they're actually in-laws. To make a long story
short we sold our old place in order to move to a new place, but there
was almost nothing on the market. So we ended up staying here since
we're already part owners. It now appears that we'll be buying the
place. While most people here will eventually move, for now we're
sharing.

The in-laws have strange ideas about plants--such as being a source of
bugs and night-time stealers of oxygen. I'm a science person but, since
these objections are made in another language, it's hard for me to win
the debate. And I must admit that moving the orchids to a dedicated
area will free up needed space and be safer for the orchids in the end.
(I've already had to move them four times for purposes of construction
and other household activities, and two of them have each been knocked
over twice--one requiring a complete replanting.)

Thanks for your help, everyone! I'm moving them a fifth time tomorrow
and then, after construction next week, hopefully out to the new
growing area. If something isn't going to make it outdoors, or if
weather gets extreme, I have pre-approval to move a couple plants
inside or, temporarily, move them all inside for an orchid slumber
party. Wish me luck: there's some elbow grease required now.

-Munir


If I follow what you are saying you now want to build a 'real'
structure... larger than what you ahd originally intended. If so, I got
my ideas to build my GH from Sundance Supply and Charley's GH. Charleys
gives you ideas on how much cooling, venting, etc and Sundance gives you
rudimentary plans. Charley's is at http://www.charleysgreenhouse.com (I
think, I recalling from memory) and Sundance is at
http://www.sundancesupply.com/

Of Course OrchidSafari has a few 'chats' aboout building a greenshouse,
so I'll put up our archive links and you can noodle around if you want.
Either http://www.orchidsafari.org or
http://www.geocities.com/brassia.geo/OSTA.html

Building the structure itself is the easy part. Getting the venting,
electricity, etc out there is another issue.

Actually, come to think of it, there used to be something like a tent
made out of a white translucent fabric that Charley's sold. Came in
various sizes I have one that's 6x8x7 which was very handy to ahve and I
crammed a ton of orchids in it... I may still ahve that online.... Ha!
yes, I do! LOL!! Its at
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4971/KOPsTG.html
and the first GH I built is at
http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/4971/KOPsGHS.html, the picture is
before I moved everything from the tent into the GH.

Notice how I'm trying to entice you into doing the right thing by
completely covering your back yard with a greenhouse, becasue you truly
won't be happy until you've done it, LOL!!!

K Barrett