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Old 27-10-2005, 10:57 PM
OrchidKitty
 
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Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

About four years ago, I bought an Oncidium (reclassified as a
Tulumnia) Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant' from Carter & Holmes. This small
plant is still small, but it has more than tripled its leaf count. It
has, alas, yet to bloom. It is in S/H media and has good roots and
densely packed healthy leaves. For the past two years, it's been
outdoors for the summer (New England, USA) and indoors for the winter
in a south-facing window or under a 400-watt MH light. I've tried a
variety of fertilizers, including "bloom busters," but to no avail. It
experiences the same day/night temperature variation as my plants in
the Cattleya family, and they're blooming or in sheath. So, what am I
doing wrong? Is there a trick to getting this stubborn little plant to
bloom?


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Old 27-10-2005, 11:33 PM
Ray
 
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Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and
growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at
every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a
breeze, so dries out rapidly.

About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom.

I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so
patience is the key.
--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"OrchidKitty" wrote in message
oups.com...
About four years ago, I bought an Oncidium (reclassified as a
Tulumnia) Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant' from Carter & Holmes. This small
plant is still small, but it has more than tripled its leaf count. It
has, alas, yet to bloom. It is in S/H media and has good roots and
densely packed healthy leaves. For the past two years, it's been
outdoors for the summer (New England, USA) and indoors for the winter
in a south-facing window or under a 400-watt MH light. I've tried a
variety of fertilizers, including "bloom busters," but to no avail. It
experiences the same day/night temperature variation as my plants in
the Cattleya family, and they're blooming or in sheath. So, what am I
doing wrong? Is there a trick to getting this stubborn little plant to
bloom?



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Old 28-10-2005, 03:24 AM
V_coerulea
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

I think that if you've got it growing well you've overcome the main
obstacles. Mine blooms well when it gets enough light to turn the leaves a
little red. I don't know if redder is better, but it seems that those I have
that have redder foliage have bigger bloom stems and more blooms. In any
case, they require a lot of very bright light most of the year to bloom.
Gary

"OrchidKitty" wrote in message
oups.com...
About four years ago, I bought an Oncidium (reclassified as a
Tulumnia) Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant' from Carter & Holmes. This small
plant is still small, but it has more than tripled its leaf count. It
has, alas, yet to bloom. It is in S/H media and has good roots and
densely packed healthy leaves. For the past two years, it's been
outdoors for the summer (New England, USA) and indoors for the winter
in a south-facing window or under a 400-watt MH light. I've tried a
variety of fertilizers, including "bloom busters," but to no avail. It
experiences the same day/night temperature variation as my plants in
the Cattleya family, and they're blooming or in sheath. So, what am I
doing wrong? Is there a trick to getting this stubborn little plant to
bloom?



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Old 28-10-2005, 12:43 PM
OrchidKitty
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

Thanks Ray and V--

Its leaves are not red-tinged at all. I'll move it closer to bright
light and see whether this helps. Next summer, I'll give it more sun
too.

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Old 28-10-2005, 05:35 PM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

Ray wrote:
I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and
growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at
every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a
breeze, so dries out rapidly.

About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom.

I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so
patience is the key.


I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like
s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H
culture - they just don't go for it!"

Have you changed your mind?

K Barrett


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Old 28-10-2005, 07:23 PM
?
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:35:01 -0700 in K Barrett wrote:
Ray wrote:
I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and
growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at
every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a
breeze, so dries out rapidly.

About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom.

I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so
patience is the key.


I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like
s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H
culture - they just don't go for it!"


When did "slat basket of coconut husk fibre" become SH?

Although I expect to be dividing my Tolumnia popoki sooner or later
and trying a division in a SH pot directly in front of a fan.

--
Chris Dukes
Suspicion breeds confidence -- Brazil
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Old 29-10-2005, 12:28 AM
OrchidKitty
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

You might be confusing my original post with Ray's. At any rate, my
plant is doing very well in S/H, even though it isn't supposed to. When
I put it in S/H, I was treating it like an ordinary oncidium, and
they've done very well in S/H for me. Kitty Crocker is in a deep pot,
and other than not blooming, it seems to be pretty happy.

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Old 29-10-2005, 12:32 AM
Ray
 
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Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

Absolutely not.

The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not in
S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well.

I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that
are doing great.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Ray wrote:
I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber -
and growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize
it at every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also
in a breeze, so dries out rapidly.

About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom.

I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom,
so patience is the key.


I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like
s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H
culture - they just don't go for it!"

Have you changed your mind?

K Barrett



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Old 29-10-2005, 01:13 AM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

OrchidKitty wrote:
You might be confusing my original post with Ray's. At any rate, my
plant is doing very well in S/H, even though it isn't supposed to. When
I put it in S/H, I was treating it like an ordinary oncidium, and
they've done very well in S/H for me. Kitty Crocker is in a deep pot,
and other than not blooming, it seems to be pretty happy.



No, I read your post correctly. However I knew that Ray didn't think
Tolumnias did well in S/H. So I asked him about it. Seems they are
doing well in S/H (except for the flowering) for you.

K Barrett
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Old 29-10-2005, 01:15 AM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

Ray wrote:
Absolutely not.

The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not in
S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well.

I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that
are doing great.


But OrchidKitty further clarified, that they are growing for him/her.

Just so I'm clear that you still don't recommend S/H for tolumnias.

K


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Old 29-10-2005, 01:21 AM
K Barrett
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

? wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 08:35:01 -0700 in K Barrett wrote:

Ray wrote:

I have the same plant - growing in a slat basket of coconut husk fiber - and
growing up very high in the GH to get maximum light, and I fertilize it at
every watering with 125 ppm N using the MSU RO formula. It is also in a
breeze, so dries out rapidly.

About 6 weeks ago or so (8-10?), it had five spikes all in full bloom.

I would guess yours simply does not yet have the "mass" needed to bloom, so
patience is the key.


I thought your web page on s/h specifically stated tolumnias don't like
s/h culture, I believe the quote is " DO NOT try any tolumnias in S/H
culture - they just don't go for it!"



When did "slat basket of coconut husk fibre" become SH?

Although I expect to be dividing my Tolumnia popoki sooner or later
and trying a division in a SH pot directly in front of a fan.



It isn't s/h. That's why I asked for clarification. OrchidKitty said
s/he was growing his/her Tolumnia in s/h. I knew (from reading Rays
site recently) that he didn't believe they did well in s/h, so I asked
for clarification. He's allowed to change his mind, *G*. OrchidKitty
replied that s/he is growing the orchid in full s/h, not just the
medium... so there we are.

YMMV

K Barrett
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Old 29-10-2005, 04:25 AM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Absolutely not.

The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not
in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well.

What is the connection betweeb Tolumnia and Oncidium? Does your
recommendation against semihydro apply to, e.g., Oncidium Sharry Baby or
Oncidium Twinkle too (there's a pink ,and a yellow, variety of O. Twinkle
that I'd like to try to get)?

I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that
are doing great.

Can I infer from this that Ascofinetia would do well in semihydro too?

Cheers,

Ted


--
R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making


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Old 29-10-2005, 03:51 PM
Ray
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

You are correct, Kathy. I still do not recommend it, but I don't recommend
vandaceous in S/H either, and I know of lots of folks who grow them that
way.

My guess is that it depends a great deal upon the growing conditions (my
very humid greenhouse versus a drier windowsill, for example) or how
rigorously folks stick to the full regime of "semi-hydroponics." I have run
into a lot of folks who use the LECA media in pots with a built-in
reservoir, but water so sparingly and infrequently that it really isn't S/H
culture at all, just "regular" orchid culture with different components.

I am not saying that is the case with OK's Kitty Crocker, but it does seem
to be pushing the envelope a bit.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
Ray wrote:
Absolutely not.

The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not
in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well.

I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that
are doing great.


But OrchidKitty further clarified, that they are growing for him/her.

Just so I'm clear that you still don't recommend S/H for tolumnias.

K



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Old 29-10-2005, 04:07 PM
Ray
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'

Ted,

Even though they were once lumped into a single genus, tolumnia and
oncidiums are quite different in their natural cultural conditions.

If I recall correctly (I may be overgeneralizing, but you'll get the point
anyway), tolumnias typically populate spindly branches of shrubs on the
windward side of Caribbean islands and nearby mainland locales. As such,
they are bathed in constant breezes and dry out almost instantly after
rains. Many oncidiums, on the other hand, and more typically
"jungle-based," with the overall wetter conditions seen there.

Every attempt I have made to grow tolumnias in true S/H conditions has
failed, which I rationalize by thinking about the vast dissimilarity of that
root climate to that of the twigs. On the other hand, every pseudobulbed
oncidium I've tried - Sharry Baby, a couple of species, and any big yellow
"dancing doll" included - has thrived.

My statement that I have the ascocentrums in clay pots of PrimeAgra was
meant to point out that PrimeAgra can be used as a non-S/H growing medium.
I did not say they were in S/H. But let me throw some more confusion into
the fray: I would not recommend ascofinetia be grown in S/H, even though
some folks are good at it, but I am successfully growing Neofinetia falcata
that way.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies, Artwork, Books and Lots of Free Info!


"Ted Byers" wrote in message
...

"Ray" wrote in message
...
Absolutely not.

The original post said it was in S/H medium, which I took as "...but not
in S/H" as I'm fairly certain they wouldn't do that well.

What is the connection betweeb Tolumnia and Oncidium? Does your
recommendation against semihydro apply to, e.g., Oncidium Sharry Baby or
Oncidium Twinkle too (there's a pink ,and a yellow, variety of O. Twinkle
that I'd like to try to get)?

I have some Ascocentrum garayi seedlings in clay pots with PrimeAgra that
are doing great.

Can I infer from this that Ascofinetia would do well in semihydro too?

Cheers,

Ted


--
R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making



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Old 29-10-2005, 05:49 PM
Ted Byers
 
Posts: n/a
Default Oncidium/Tulumnia Kitty Crocker 'Rose Giant'


"Ray" wrote in message
...
Ted,

Even though they were once lumped into a single genus, tolumnia and
oncidiums are quite different in their natural cultural conditions.

Out of curiosity, how similar are they morphologically? I did a search for
pictures of Tolumnia using google, but the links I have pursued so far have
only shown images of the flowers, which look much like the flowers of the
Oncidiums I have seen.

If I recall correctly (I may be overgeneralizing, but you'll get the point
anyway), tolumnias typically populate spindly branches of shrubs on the
windward side of Caribbean islands and nearby mainland locales. As such,
they are bathed in constant breezes and dry out almost instantly after
rains. Many oncidiums, on the other hand, and more typically
"jungle-based," with the overall wetter conditions seen there.

Do they have the adaptations one would usually expect in plants living in a
relatively arid environment, such as fleshy leaves, perhaps proportionately
larger pseudobulbs than the Oncidiums, roots that are better designed
against dessication than one would expect from a rainforest epiphyte?

I have never actually seen a Tolumnia in the flesh.

Every attempt I have made to grow tolumnias in true S/H conditions has
failed, which I rationalize by thinking about the vast dissimilarity of
that root climate to that of the twigs. On the other hand, every
pseudobulbed oncidium I've tried - Sharry Baby, a couple of species, and
any big yellow "dancing doll" included - has thrived.

Given what you have said about their natural environment, I would be
astonished if they were found by someone to thrive in semihydro. If there
are people who succeed in growing them in semihydro, what is the reason?
Are they doing it in an environment that has much drier air, and thus much
greater evaporative demand? If so, I could see that demand drying the air
in the pores within the media, while the water in the pellets supplies
sufficient water for the plant to meet that demand. If that is right, I
could see the plant growing faster than normal since plant production is
often correlated with evapotranspiration rates (at least in crop plants I've
studied - I don't know how well that empirical relationship applies to
orchids, if at all).

My statement that I have the ascocentrums in clay pots of PrimeAgra was
meant to point out that PrimeAgra can be used as a non-S/H growing medium.
I did not say they were in S/H. But let me throw some more confusion into
the fray: I would not recommend ascofinetia be grown in S/H, even though
some folks are good at it, but I am successfully growing Neofinetia
falcata that way.

OK, I misunderstood you there.

If Neofinetia does well in semihydro, but Ascofinetia does not, should that
be taken to mean that Ascocentrum does not particularly like semihydro, and
has passed that trait on to Ascofinetia? If not, what is the reason you
wouldn't recommend semihydro for Acsofinetia even though some succeed with
it?

And here is a question about semihydro that is completely unrelated to
orchids, unless there are orchids used as herbs in some cuisine with which I
am completely unfamiliar. My neice is training to be a chef, and I thus
tried to get her started in growing her own herbs, but to no avail. She
must have thumbs even blacker than her mother and aunts, who can even kill
plastic plants. ;-) The question is, if we have some seeds for a number
of herbs, how can we get them germiinated and then growing in semihydro. My
hope is that if we can get them growing in semihydro, she will be able to
maintain them by simply restoring the initial water level in the reservoir
when that drops by a centimetre or two. She is one that often forgets to
water her plants, and so they usually die from dessication! Of course,
seedlings are much more vulnerable to her than a relatively mature plant,
but even they die from dessication eventually. I'd like to try to make
taking care of plants as easy as possible, to improve her chances of keeping
the herbs healthy enough to use in her outstanding cooking. It is amazing
to me that such an outstanding chef could be so severely challenged when it
comes to keeping plants healthy!

Cheers,

Ted

--
R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making




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