IMHO 4N is a trait one should look for, not 3N. 3N can be a mule when used
in breeding programs since it has a mismatched chromosome count in breeding
with 2N or 4N plants, although the well read breeder know this isn't always
true either. That is not an issue if one doesn't want to breed. That said,
4N plants are larger and have more substance than either 2N or 3N plants,
which make them more desireable, IMHO.

YMMV

K Barrett

"jtill" wrote in message
oups.com...
Should one look for this characteristic in an orchid? Maybe 3N if one
only wants to collect and raise? I am way over my head here but have
been reading, which sometimes brings trouble ;-)).
Next, how do you find these plants? It is not commonly listed but one
writer said that most or many sellers sell 3N plants, true?
Joe T
Houston

On Tue, 23 May 2006 13:46:13 -0700, "K Barrett"
wrote:

IMHO 4N is a trait one should look for, not 3N. 3N can be a mule when used
in breeding programs since it has a mismatched chromosome count in breeding
with 2N or 4N plants, although the well read breeder know this isn't always
true either. That is not an issue if one doesn't want to breed. That said,
4N plants are larger and have more substance than either 2N or 3N plants,
which make them more desireable, IMHO.

YMMV

K Barrett

"jtill" wrote in message
roups.com...
Should one look for this characteristic in an orchid? Maybe 3N if one
only wants to collect and raise? I am way over my head here but have
been reading, which sometimes brings trouble ;-)).
Next, how do you find these plants? It is not commonly listed but one
writer said that most or many sellers sell 3N plants, true?
Joe T
Houston

Sometimes the 3N and 4N plants have Ribs instead of veins in the
leaves or in the flowers. Depending on who is looking this is good,
bad or just 'interesting'. It may also cause flower tissue to be
thicker which may or may not look good. Sometimes the colors are more
saturated or they may streak instead of blend softly.

I have a 4N which is NOT larger. I don't know what is up with it.
But it is the poorest example of the type I have seen. Too bad I went
by the label instead of buying it in bloom.

I am a BIG fan of buying in bloom so you know what your getting.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

4N plants are produced by exposing protocorms to colchicine, a very
poisonous chemical from the autumn "crocus". This induces the plant to
double its chromosome number from 2 to 4. This toxic treatment is not
guaranteed to have this effect but can usually guarantee a 50% mortality
rate. Since so few make it through, it's hoped that the survivors are
tetraploid and all to frequently sold as such without verifying the
chromosome count (which would place the place off the market monetarily).
Mericlones of 4N plants should be true. So always buy tetraploids as a
mericlone or in flower to be sure what you're getting.
Gary

"Susan Erickson" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 May 2006 13:46:13 -0700, "K Barrett"
wrote:

IMHO 4N is a trait one should look for, not 3N. 3N can be a mule when
used
in breeding programs since it has a mismatched chromosome count in
breeding
with 2N or 4N plants, although the well read breeder know this isn't
always
true either. That is not an issue if one doesn't want to breed. That
said,
4N plants are larger and have more substance than either 2N or 3N plants,
which make them more desireable, IMHO.

YMMV

K Barrett

"jtill" wrote in message
groups.com...
Should one look for this characteristic in an orchid? Maybe 3N if one
only wants to collect and raise? I am way over my head here but have
been reading, which sometimes brings trouble ;-)).
Next, how do you find these plants? It is not commonly listed but one
writer said that most or many sellers sell 3N plants, true?
Joe T
Houston

Sometimes the 3N and 4N plants have Ribs instead of veins in the
leaves or in the flowers. Depending on who is looking this is good,
bad or just 'interesting'. It may also cause flower tissue to be
thicker which may or may not look good. Sometimes the colors are more
saturated or they may streak instead of blend softly.

I have a 4N which is NOT larger. I don't know what is up with it.
But it is the poorest example of the type I have seen. Too bad I went
by the label instead of buying it in bloom.

I am a BIG fan of buying in bloom so you know what your getting.
SuE
http://orchids.legolas.org/gallery/main.php

Thanks K and SuE, and V.

I searched this Forum, 13 hits, all very scolarly plus tons of info on
the WEB and other forums. I have wound this Forum all the way back to
1995, June.

I have a 4N Onc., purportedly. It looks like B. Bonds. Of course I lost
the tag, have the record somewhere on this PC.

I want some Catts, just for fun and learning.

Colchicine may not be the only path, seems I read that rarely nature
throws out one and maybe another method, will re-check.

This is typical for me, the paint is not dry yet on my first one and I
am looking for next model.

Joe T
Houston

V_coerulea wrote:
4N plants are produced by exposing protocorms to colchicine, a very
poisonous chemical from the autumn "crocus". This induces the plant to
double its chromosome number from 2 to 4. This toxic treatment is not
guaranteed to have this effect but can usually guarantee a 50% mortality
rate. Since so few make it through, it's hoped that the survivors are
tetraploid and all to frequently sold as such without verifying the
chromosome count (which would place the place off the market monetarily).
Mericlones of 4N plants should be true. So always buy tetraploids as a
mericlone or in flower to be sure what you're getting.
Gary


Moreso, the effects of increasing ploidy are difficult to predict. Gene
and protein regulation often get in the way of our simplistic view of
"double the chromosomes, double the size". If tetraploidy was so
straight forward and uncomplicated, we'd see more of it in animals.

Joe: Mother Nature does sometimes make one, but the chances of finding it,
in cultivation, are rare. Who has the time-$$-space to flask out all the
thousands of seed from a pod? Kenni

Colchicine may not be the only path, seems I read that rarely nature
throws out one and maybe another method, will re-check.

Good point Kenny. I think it would be pure happenstance. Same goes for
finding one on the web ;-)). I have worn one "o" out of Google looking
and have found only a few, as this seems not to be a big thing in
orchids right now. As luck would have it a recent Ebay purchase of mine
is Vanda Kultana x Dr. Anek and Dr. Anek is a 4n! As I wrote earlier I
have a 4N Onc. So, I am having a good time looking, and, possibly
learning a bit.
Joe T
Houston
PS; I did see a note in a discussion that " Splash " CATTS have 4N in
their background. Need to follow that a bit.

One should stay away from blooming CATTS, they tend to follow you home.
;-))
Joe T
Houston