One more question for you folks who use this product. We used it to spray
this week, once the rain stopped around here. When I checked the level of
product in our spray bottle (hose end type) I didn't see much of a
reduction. No way was enough product getting through.

3336 is *very* thick, the consistency of milk of magnesia or condensed milk,
and it appears that this type of applicator won't work well with it. So, my
question: is there a problem with thinning the 3336 by half with water and
then doubling the dosage? More to the point, will it work? How well does
this product mix?

I can't see myself filling and refilling a one gallon pump sprayer enough
times to saturate over 250 plants. Hints?

Diana

I think if you keep the net volume to that you'll use in one application, a
50% dilution and doubling the dosing rate is fine.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
One more question for you folks who use this product. We used it to spray
this week, once the rain stopped around here. When I checked the level of
product in our spray bottle (hose end type) I didn't see much of a
reduction. No way was enough product getting through.

3336 is *very* thick, the consistency of milk of magnesia or condensed
milk, and it appears that this type of applicator won't work well with it.
So, my question: is there a problem with thinning the 3336 by half with
water and then doubling the dosage? More to the point, will it work? How
well does this product mix?

I can't see myself filling and refilling a one gallon pump sprayer enough
times to saturate over 250 plants. Hints?

Diana

Thanks, Ray. That's kind of what I figured, but it's nice to have someone
else's opinion.

Diana

"Ray B" wrote in message
news:6rCih.24919$Ei5.6380@trndny05...
I think if you keep the net volume to that you'll use in one application, a
50% dilution and doubling the dosing rate is fine.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
One more question for you folks who use this product. We used it to spray
this week, once the rain stopped around here. When I checked the level of
product in our spray bottle (hose end type) I didn't see much of a
reduction. No way was enough product getting through.

3336 is *very* thick, the consistency of milk of magnesia or condensed
milk, and it appears that this type of applicator won't work well with
it. So, my question: is there a problem with thinning the 3336 by half
with water and then doubling the dosage? More to the point, will it work?
How well does this product mix?

I can't see myself filling and refilling a one gallon pump sprayer enough
times to saturate over 250 plants. Hints?

Diana

Thanks for responding, Pat, as usual. I imagine the hose end device is less
accurate than an actual measure, but when you're doing a drench for all
these plants, isn't it unwieldy to use a gallon pump? I'd be refilling it
constantly, no?

You guys are great. But you knew that already, right?

Diana

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
I use a gallon pump sprayer or a three gallon pump backpack sprayer
depending on how much I need. I do not think hose end sprayers or siphon
sprayers are a good idea for orchids and most chemicals for lots of
reasons,
some learned the hard way.

Pat

"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
One more question for you folks who use this product. We used it to spray
this week, once the rain stopped around here. When I checked the level of
product in our spray bottle (hose end type) I didn't see much of a
reduction. No way was enough product getting through.

3336 is *very* thick, the consistency of milk of magnesia or condensed
milk, and it appears that this type of applicator won't work well with
it. So, my question: is there a problem with thinning the 3336 by half
with water and then doubling the dosage? More to the point, will it work?
How well does this product mix?

I can't see myself filling and refilling a one gallon pump sprayer enough
times to saturate over 250 plants. Hints?

Diana

I use a gallon pump sprayer or a three gallon pump backpack sprayer
depending on how much I need. I do not think hose end sprayers or siphon
sprayers are a good idea for orchids and most chemicals for lots of reasons,
some learned the hard way.

Pat

"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
One more question for you folks who use this product. We used it to spray
this week, once the rain stopped around here. When I checked the level of
product in our spray bottle (hose end type) I didn't see much of a
reduction. No way was enough product getting through.

3336 is *very* thick, the consistency of milk of magnesia or condensed
milk, and it appears that this type of applicator won't work well with it.
So, my question: is there a problem with thinning the 3336 by half with
water and then doubling the dosage? More to the point, will it work? How
well does this product mix?

I can't see myself filling and refilling a one gallon pump sprayer enough
times to saturate over 250 plants. Hints?

Diana

Diana Kulaga wrote:
Thanks for responding, Pat, as usual. I imagine the hose end device is less
accurate than an actual measure, but when you're doing a drench for all
these plants, isn't it unwieldy to use a gallon pump? I'd be refilling it
constantly, no?...............................

Does your gallon sprayer have a hose and spray wand or is the spray
nozzle attached to the top of the tank? If you have a hose, I think you
should try a batch in your sprayer anyway. I have nearly as many plants
as you, and I spray them with Cleary's in the summer (outside). I use a
3 gallon pump up sprayer which I usually only fill to about 2 gallons.
Two gallons pretty much covers everything. I tend to thoroughly spray
the plants that have a history of fungus problems. The others get
sprayed, but I don't take much care about covering every surface.

Steve

Diana, Just so we are using the same terms, you are not doing a drench just
a spraying. A drench is when you want to get the chemical down to the roots
and requires you saturate the mix with the chemical. With a spraying you
are spraying the leaves with a fine mist just to the point the chemical
starts to run off the leaves. Depending on a lot of things I would guess I
can spray 300 to 500 square feet of orchids with a gallon of spray. I can
drench maybe 30 square feet with a gallon.

Try a sprayer, you will be surprise how fast it goes. It is safer, you will
use much less spray, you will be exposed to the unmixed chemical less
(remember the unmixed chemical is something like 700 times more toxic that
the spray), the mix will be much more accurate(!!!), as Steve points out you
can focus on the plant being sprayed, and you will get better coverage. The
more accurate mix is reason alone not to use the hose end thing.

I once attended a demo where plants were sprayed with a UV mix with various
sprayers. After the spray dried, a black light was used to show how well
the sprayer covered the plant. The hose end sprayer gave the worst coverage
and used the most spray.

My sprayers of choice are Solo (both pumpup and backpack). Avoid the cheap
ones, they do not make a good spay pattern and are just junk.

Pat

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Diana Kulaga wrote:
Thanks for responding, Pat, as usual. I imagine the hose end device is
less accurate than an actual measure, but when you're doing a drench for
all these plants, isn't it unwieldy to use a gallon pump? I'd be
refilling it constantly, no?...............................

Does your gallon sprayer have a hose and spray wand or is the spray nozzle
attached to the top of the tank? If you have a hose, I think you should
try a batch in your sprayer anyway. I have nearly as many plants as you,
and I spray them with Cleary's in the summer (outside). I use a 3 gallon
pump up sprayer which I usually only fill to about 2 gallons. Two gallons
pretty much covers everything. I tend to thoroughly spray the plants that
have a history of fungus problems. The others get sprayed, but I don't
take much care about covering every surface.

Steve

Steve & Pat,

Hmm. since Cleary's is systemic, I thought it was wise to saturate the
plants. But I'm hearing you say it's not necessary. That would make life a
lot easier.

We have a couple of pump up tank sprayers, both with hose and wand. We've
been meaning to invest in a better one, so now is probably a good time to do
so.

Thanks again!

Diana (pest!)


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Diana, Just so we are using the same terms, you are not doing a drench
just a spraying. A drench is when you want to get the chemical down to
the roots and requires you saturate the mix with the chemical. With a
spraying you are spraying the leaves with a fine mist just to the point
the chemical starts to run off the leaves. Depending on a lot of things I
would guess I can spray 300 to 500 square feet of orchids with a gallon of
spray. I can drench maybe 30 square feet with a gallon.

Try a sprayer, you will be surprise how fast it goes. It is safer, you
will use much less spray, you will be exposed to the unmixed chemical less
(remember the unmixed chemical is something like 700 times more toxic that
the spray), the mix will be much more accurate(!!!), as Steve points out
you can focus on the plant being sprayed, and you will get better
coverage. The more accurate mix is reason alone not to use the hose end
thing.

I once attended a demo where plants were sprayed with a UV mix with
various sprayers. After the spray dried, a black light was used to show
how well the sprayer covered the plant. The hose end sprayer gave the
worst coverage and used the most spray.

My sprayers of choice are Solo (both pumpup and backpack). Avoid the
cheap ones, they do not make a good spay pattern and are just junk.

Pat

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Diana Kulaga wrote:
Thanks for responding, Pat, as usual. I imagine the hose end device is
less accurate than an actual measure, but when you're doing a drench for
all these plants, isn't it unwieldy to use a gallon pump? I'd be
refilling it constantly, no?...............................

Does your gallon sprayer have a hose and spray wand or is the spray
nozzle attached to the top of the tank? If you have a hose, I think you
should try a batch in your sprayer anyway. I have nearly as many plants
as you, and I spray them with Cleary's in the summer (outside). I use a 3
gallon pump up sprayer which I usually only fill to about 2 gallons. Two
gallons pretty much covers everything. I tend to thoroughly spray the
plants that have a history of fungus problems. The others get sprayed,
but I don't take much care about covering every surface.

Steve

Diana: Unfortunately I do not recall where it came from, but I used a
3-gallon battery-powered tank sprayer for years. It was even on wheels,
rather like the wheeled luggage you see these days.

Before that I had a 2-gallon "no-pump" sprayer (Scotty's Hardware, I think).
No pump was a bit of an exaggeration (sp?), but it did pressurize itself
while filling, so there was a lot less pumping.

Kenni


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Steve & Pat,

Hmm. since Cleary's is systemic, I thought it was wise to saturate the
plants. But I'm hearing you say it's not necessary. That would make life a
lot easier.

We have a couple of pump up tank sprayers, both with hose and wand. We've
been meaning to invest in a better one, so now is probably a good time to
do so.

Thanks again!

Diana (pest!)


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Diana, Just so we are using the same terms, you are not doing a drench
just a spraying. A drench is when you want to get the chemical down to
the roots and requires you saturate the mix with the chemical. With a
spraying you are spraying the leaves with a fine mist just to the point
the chemical starts to run off the leaves. Depending on a lot of things
I would guess I can spray 300 to 500 square feet of orchids with a gallon
of spray. I can drench maybe 30 square feet with a gallon.

Try a sprayer, you will be surprise how fast it goes. It is safer, you
will use much less spray, you will be exposed to the unmixed chemical
less (remember the unmixed chemical is something like 700 times more
toxic that the spray), the mix will be much more accurate(!!!), as Steve
points out you can focus on the plant being sprayed, and you will get
better coverage. The more accurate mix is reason alone not to use the
hose end thing.

I once attended a demo where plants were sprayed with a UV mix with
various sprayers. After the spray dried, a black light was used to show
how well the sprayer covered the plant. The hose end sprayer gave the
worst coverage and used the most spray.

My sprayers of choice are Solo (both pumpup and backpack). Avoid the
cheap ones, they do not make a good spay pattern and are just junk.

Pat

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Diana Kulaga wrote:
Thanks for responding, Pat, as usual. I imagine the hose end device is
less accurate than an actual measure, but when you're doing a drench
for all these plants, isn't it unwieldy to use a gallon pump? I'd be
refilling it constantly, no?...............................

Does your gallon sprayer have a hose and spray wand or is the spray
nozzle attached to the top of the tank? If you have a hose, I think you
should try a batch in your sprayer anyway. I have nearly as many plants
as you, and I spray them with Cleary's in the summer (outside). I use a
3 gallon pump up sprayer which I usually only fill to about 2 gallons.
Two gallons pretty much covers everything. I tend to thoroughly spray
the plants that have a history of fungus problems. The others get
sprayed, but I don't take much care about covering every surface.

Steve

Thanks, Kenni. Do you have any experience with the Gilmore stainless steel
model?

Diana

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Diana: Unfortunately I do not recall where it came from, but I used a
3-gallon battery-powered tank sprayer for years. It was even on wheels,
rather like the wheeled luggage you see these days.

Before that I had a 2-gallon "no-pump" sprayer (Scotty's Hardware, I
think). No pump was a bit of an exaggeration (sp?), but it did pressurize
itself while filling, so there was a lot less pumping.

Kenni


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Steve & Pat,

Hmm. since Cleary's is systemic, I thought it was wise to saturate the
plants. But I'm hearing you say it's not necessary. That would make life
a lot easier.

We have a couple of pump up tank sprayers, both with hose and wand. We've
been meaning to invest in a better one, so now is probably a good time to
do so.

Thanks again!

Diana (pest!)


"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Diana, Just so we are using the same terms, you are not doing a drench
just a spraying. A drench is when you want to get the chemical down to
the roots and requires you saturate the mix with the chemical. With a
spraying you are spraying the leaves with a fine mist just to the point
the chemical starts to run off the leaves. Depending on a lot of things
I would guess I can spray 300 to 500 square feet of orchids with a
gallon of spray. I can drench maybe 30 square feet with a gallon.

Try a sprayer, you will be surprise how fast it goes. It is safer, you
will use much less spray, you will be exposed to the unmixed chemical
less (remember the unmixed chemical is something like 700 times more
toxic that the spray), the mix will be much more accurate(!!!), as Steve
points out you can focus on the plant being sprayed, and you will get
better coverage. The more accurate mix is reason alone not to use the
hose end thing.

I once attended a demo where plants were sprayed with a UV mix with
various sprayers. After the spray dried, a black light was used to show
how well the sprayer covered the plant. The hose end sprayer gave the
worst coverage and used the most spray.

My sprayers of choice are Solo (both pumpup and backpack). Avoid the
cheap ones, they do not make a good spay pattern and are just junk.

Pat

"Steve" wrote in message
...
Diana Kulaga wrote:
Thanks for responding, Pat, as usual. I imagine the hose end device is
less accurate than an actual measure, but when you're doing a drench
for all these plants, isn't it unwieldy to use a gallon pump? I'd be
refilling it constantly, no?...............................

Does your gallon sprayer have a hose and spray wand or is the spray
nozzle attached to the top of the tank? If you have a hose, I think you
should try a batch in your sprayer anyway. I have nearly as many plants
as you, and I spray them with Cleary's in the summer (outside). I use a
3 gallon pump up sprayer which I usually only fill to about 2 gallons.
Two gallons pretty much covers everything. I tend to thoroughly spray
the plants that have a history of fungus problems. The others get
sprayed, but I don't take much care about covering every surface.

Steve

Diana,

If you have already bought a sprayer, just skip this post.

Ok you still reading? Stainless sprayers are great for someone who wants to
use a single sprayer for everything. They can be cleaned. Herbicides,
especially 2,4-D, are very hard to completely get out of plastic. No matter
how well you clean a plastic tank that has been used with some herbicides,
the next time you use the sprayer on sensitive plants you may see damage.
Around here we never use a sprayer on the orchids that has been used for
herbicides. In fact, Solo sprayers are used with the orchids and I never
use a Solo sprayer with herbicides. So far this has worked and we have
never had a mix up.

For the past year I have been using a 4.5 gallon Gilmore backpack that I
bought from Lowes for herbicides. It was not cheap and seems flimsy, but
has lasted the full season. Herbicides go down as small droplets to
minimize drift so I can not say how well it works as a sprayer (but I am
sure it works fine). As it came out of the box, I attached the herb nozzle
and threw away the spray one.

If you already have two pump up sprayers and they were cleaned the last time
they were used, I am sure they will work fine. With these sprayers, you get
the finest spray when the tank is under the most pressure, so just remember
to keep it pumped up. I find I like backpack sprayers best. Easier to keep
the tank pumped up, easier to get around as I am spraying, and the spraying
process just flows better. Last spring Costco had '4 gallon' Solo backpacks
for cheap money, I think $70. (Although the box said 4 gallon they were
really 3 gallon sprayers.) If you have the strength to repot orchids, you
should be able to handle the backpack, it does not need to be filled to
capacity. If you can not handle it, maybe you can get Frank to do the
spraying. If Frank does the spraying, you will owe him. If you are not
inclined to pay this debt, I have seen some very good battery powered
sprayers at shows being used to mist exhibits.

Pat

Pat,

Frank ordered a Solo today. We bought a decent sprayer at HD two days ago,
but parts were missing. The two we already have are crappy; the nozzles got
messed up and we need to simply toss them out.

I can't thank you enough for all your input.

Diana

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
...
Diana,

If you have already bought a sprayer, just skip this post.

Ok you still reading? Stainless sprayers are great for someone who wants
to use a single sprayer for everything. They can be cleaned. Herbicides,
especially 2,4-D, are very hard to completely get out of plastic. No
matter how well you clean a plastic tank that has been used with some
herbicides, the next time you use the sprayer on sensitive plants you may
see damage. Around here we never use a sprayer on the orchids that has
been used for herbicides. In fact, Solo sprayers are used with the
orchids and I never use a Solo sprayer with herbicides. So far this has
worked and we have never had a mix up.

For the past year I have been using a 4.5 gallon Gilmore backpack that I
bought from Lowes for herbicides. It was not cheap and seems flimsy, but
has lasted the full season. Herbicides go down as small droplets to
minimize drift so I can not say how well it works as a sprayer (but I am
sure it works fine). As it came out of the box, I attached the herb
nozzle and threw away the spray one.

If you already have two pump up sprayers and they were cleaned the last
time they were used, I am sure they will work fine. With these sprayers,
you get the finest spray when the tank is under the most pressure, so just
remember to keep it pumped up. I find I like backpack sprayers best.
Easier to keep the tank pumped up, easier to get around as I am spraying,
and the spraying process just flows better. Last spring Costco had '4
gallon' Solo backpacks for cheap money, I think $70. (Although the box
said 4 gallon they were really 3 gallon sprayers.) If you have the
strength to repot orchids, you should be able to handle the backpack, it
does not need to be filled to capacity. If you can not handle it, maybe
you can get Frank to do the spraying. If Frank does the spraying, you
will owe him. If you are not inclined to pay this debt, I have seen some
very good battery powered sprayers at shows being used to mist exhibits.

Pat