or "all wet in Leesburg on a freezing day"

My greenhouse is 30 x 100 feet and I consider it to be a 'barely' commercial
sized greenhouse. It sits on my property with my home. When I built it I
ran water from my house into the greenhouse and was thankful that I was on a
private well and did not need to worry about paying for water from the city.

As the greenhouse grew to its final size and filled with orchids I came to
the understanding that I was spending 10 hours a week on watering chores by
hose, so over the last two years I have been adding small self-watering
zones which I can run for 1/2 an hour each. This strategy frees up my time,
but the trade off is in water usage. Water is running on average about 4
hours a day.

When I ran the water line from the house to greenhouse I was smart enough to
bring out hot water too. This allows me to mix in warm water so i don't
shock the plants with ground water which is around 55 (not Celsius).
However, I did not understand how pipe dimensions effect flow rate and I
allowed the plumber to run 1/2 line into the greenhouse off the 3/4 line in
the house. This limited my gallons per hour (gph) max flow to about 220
down from something closer to 375 gph. (Once you step down to 1/2 diameter
line, screwing on a 3/4 inch hose in the greenhouse does not re-increase the
flow rate.) So each zone in my greenhouse is limited to 222 gph. I have a
lot of zones. I have calculated that if I run each zone for half an hour I
soak each pot in the zone with the equivalent of 1/2 of rain and this seems
to work. I arrange the plants/pot sizes in each zone so that they require
watering at about the same time as the other plants/pot sizes in the same
zone. Some zones get watered every day, like the Vandas. Some get watered
two or three times a week, some only once....

At about 4 hours a day average, I am drawing about 900 gallons a day from my
well, which fortunately has a very good refresh rate. I am throwing water
in a spray pattern into zones and a lot gets wasted, but I am saving time
since I don't have to spend 10 hours a week with a hose putting water into
each pot that needs it. I haven't quite figured out how to make the drip
irrigation idea work on a pot only basis with orchid bark/course potting
material. It would be very nice to find a way to spray water only over the
top of say a six inch pot so as it dripped through the pot, all the media
received water. Drip systems tend to run straight threw and most of the
potting media/root system remains dry. Then there is the problem of pots
getting moved around by well meaning customers and drip emitters getting
constantly knocked out of pots. The zone spray system avoids these
problems. It rains in my greenhouse in small square foot areas I control.

Anyway, the submersible well pump of my house's well pushes water up into a
pressurized holding tank. It comes up from 50 feet underground through a 1
inch line and goes into a small 20 gallon holding tank in my basement. This
pump uses a "surge" of electricity to accomplish this task. Water is heavy
and it has to be pushed UP a very long way but under normal circumstances it
does not have to stay on long.

A 20 gallon tank gives you 4 gallons of water usage before the pump is
switched on. If I understand correctly, most of this tank is a pressurized
air bladder. When I flush a toilet or turn on the dishwasher water is
pushed out of the tank through the 3/4 inch and 1/2 copper line that
circulates to all the faucets in my house because of the pressurized air
bladder in the holding tank. It is a very small tank but sufficient for a
low use house hold. A 50 gallon tank would be better, but it is a 20 gallon
tank.

This means, I get one flush and the pressure in the tank pushes 4 gallons of
water into the toilet holding thank and this triggers the well pump to surge
on and push 4 gallons back into the holding tank. Water, once in the
pressurized holding tank, is pushed through the pipes passively; no
electrical consumption.

The first thing I noticed over the last two years with my new zone watering
system was that the well pump ran constantly and my electric bill went way
high because it takes a lot of energy to move that much water up out of the
ground but I got used to it.

However, the pump was never meant to run all the time. It was only a matter
of time before it burned out. It was 45 years old and been run to death in
the last 2 two to 5 years of it's life. It chose a coldest night in
February to die. It gave me everything it had I didn't even know it was
there, really.... Also, the holding tank pressure bladder wore out a long
time ago, apparently. This means every time I got a glass of water for the
last few years I had to rely on the well pump and the surge of electricity
it takes to move 8 oz of water from 50 feet below ground through several
thousand feet of pipe.

And the pump finally died and a well professional was called to explain all
this to me. I have no choice but to replace the pump and the holding tank,
but I am getting a more energy efficient pump and a larger 119 gallon
holding tank. Without ever mentioning the electricity bill to the well
professional he looked at all this information and said, "I'll bet you see a
big drop in your electric bill with this new set-up." Anyway, "this new set
up" is costing way more than I care to admit, but it was inevitable and I
should have seen it coming.

The bottom lines he I may have to go back to watering the old way; the
10 hours a week manual method. It uses much less water than the spray
emitter zone system I installed over the last two years. I may do a little
of both depending on which is cheaper at the moment, my time OR my
electricity. One way or the other watering a commercial greenhouse turns
out to be a major expense consideration. Even out of a private well, water
is not free.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over and
over again with the subject
*^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still asleep.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over
and over again with the subject *^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in
frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still asleep.


Even a hobby grower notices changes in power and water bills. As our Vanda
collection grew, it became time consuming to give them sufficient daily
watering manually, so Frank put in a simple system on a timer. The water
bill jumped like la cucaracha, but the plants were happier.

Oh, and it's, um, *wench*.............Wait! No! Winches in T-shirts is
right!! Sorry. My bad!

Diana

Hey Al,

Grrr water.

Here we pump the water out of the ground into a cistern, another pump
from the cistern to the RO, another pump to push it through the RO
into a storage tank, another pump from RO tank to the water mixing
tanks, and a final pump from mixing tanks to hose. In total, 5 pumps
and 4 pressure tanks. I am going to retire on my electric coop
returns.

Pat

On Feb 7, 12:30 pm, "al" wrote:
or "all wet in Leesburg on a freezing day"

My greenhouse is 30 x 100 feet and I consider it to be a 'barely' commercial
sized greenhouse. It sits on my property with my home. When I built it I
ran water from my house into the greenhouse and was thankful that I was on a
private well and did not need to worry about paying for water from the city.

As the greenhouse grew to its final size and filled with orchids I came to
the understanding that I was spending 10 hours a week on watering chores by
hose, so over the last two years I have been adding small self-watering
zones which I can run for 1/2 an hour each. This strategy frees up my time,
but the trade off is in water usage. Water is running on average about 4
hours a day.

When I ran the water line from the house to greenhouse I was smart enough to
bring out hot water too. This allows me to mix in warm water so i don't
shock the plants with ground water which is around 55 (not Celsius).
However, I did not understand how pipe dimensions effect flow rate and I
allowed the plumber to run 1/2 line into the greenhouse off the 3/4 line in
the house. This limited my gallons per hour (gph) max flow to about 220
down from something closer to 375 gph. (Once you step down to 1/2 diameter
line, screwing on a 3/4 inch hose in the greenhouse does not re-increase the
flow rate.) So each zone in my greenhouse is limited to 222 gph. I have a
lot of zones. I have calculated that if I run each zone for half an hour I
soak each pot in the zone with the equivalent of 1/2 of rain and this seems
to work. I arrange the plants/pot sizes in each zone so that they require
watering at about the same time as the other plants/pot sizes in the same
zone. Some zones get watered every day, like the Vandas. Some get watered
two or three times a week, some only once....

At about 4 hours a day average, I am drawing about 900 gallons a day from my
well, which fortunately has a very good refresh rate. I am throwing water
in a spray pattern into zones and a lot gets wasted, but I am saving time
since I don't have to spend 10 hours a week with a hose putting water into
each pot that needs it. I haven't quite figured out how to make the drip
irrigation idea work on a pot only basis with orchid bark/course potting
material. It would be very nice to find a way to spray water only over the
top of say a six inch pot so as it dripped through the pot, all the media
received water. Drip systems tend to run straight threw and most of the
potting media/root system remains dry. Then there is the problem of pots
getting moved around by well meaning customers and drip emitters getting
constantly knocked out of pots. The zone spray system avoids these
problems. It rains in my greenhouse in small square foot areas I control.

Anyway, the submersible well pump of my house's well pushes water up into a
pressurized holding tank. It comes up from 50 feet underground through a 1
inch line and goes into a small 20 gallon holding tank in my basement. This
pump uses a "surge" of electricity to accomplish this task. Water is heavy
and it has to be pushed UP a very long way but under normal circumstances it
does not have to stay on long.

A 20 gallon tank gives you 4 gallons of water usage before the pump is
switched on. If I understand correctly, most of this tank is a pressurized
air bladder. When I flush a toilet or turn on the dishwasher water is
pushed out of the tank through the 3/4 inch and 1/2 copper line that
circulates to all the faucets in my house because of the pressurized air
bladder in the holding tank. It is a very small tank but sufficient for a
low use house hold. A 50 gallon tank would be better, but it is a 20 gallon
tank.

This means, I get one flush and the pressure in the tank pushes 4 gallons of
water into the toilet holding thank and this triggers the well pump to surge
on and push 4 gallons back into the holding tank. Water, once in the
pressurized holding tank, is pushed through the pipes passively; no
electrical consumption.

The first thing I noticed over the last two years with my new zone watering
system was that the well pump ran constantly and my electric bill went way
high because it takes a lot of energy to move that much water up out of the
ground but I got used to it.

However, the pump was never meant to run all the time. It was only a matter
of time before it burned out. It was 45 years old and been run to death in
the last 2 two to 5 years of it's life. It chose a coldest night in
February to die. It gave me everything it had I didn't even know it was
there, really.... Also, the holding tank pressure bladder wore out a long
time ago, apparently. This means every time I got a glass of water for the
last few years I had to rely on the well pump and the surge of electricity
it takes to move 8 oz of water from 50 feet below ground through several
thousand feet of pipe.

And the pump finally died and a well professional was called to explain all
this to me. I have no choice but to replace the pump and the holding tank,
but I am getting a more energy efficient pump and a larger 119 gallon
holding tank. Without ever mentioning the electricity bill to the well
professional he looked at all this information and said, "I'll bet you see a
big drop in your electric bill with this new set-up." Anyway, "this new set
up" is costing way more than I care to admit, but it was inevitable and I
should have seen it coming.

The bottom lines he I may have to go back to watering the old way; the
10 hours a week manual method. It uses much less water than the spray
emitter zone system I installed over the last two years. I may do a little
of both depending on which is cheaper at the moment, my time OR my
electricity. One way or the other watering a commercial greenhouse turns
out to be a major expense consideration. Even out of a private well, water
is not free.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over and
over again with the subject
*^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still asleep.

Al,

You have an opportunity here to be very creative.

If it was my problem I would look at what plants took the most time to
water. Are there zones in the greenhouse that are more difficult to water?
Areas that hard to reach? I would keep them on the automatic system.

Have you considered getting water barrels and storing water around the edges
of the Greenhouse. This could help with the heating costs by creating a
heat sink. Could then use that water to run some of the zones with a sump
pump. Refilling the barrels could be at a slower drip rate that would not
put as much demand on the well pump. You are very creative and I'm sure you
have all the calculations for the size of the barrels, gallons per hour,
etc.

900 gallons a day at 50 gallons per barrel would be 18 barrels of 55 degree
water. Pump it up for 20 hours and disperse it over 4 hours. If you
installed a swimming pool in the center of the Greenhouse you could also
take a dip in middle of the day. Be creative!

What about collecting rainwater? Could you collect rainwater for the GH and
store it in barrels?

Good Growing,
Gene



"al" wrote in message
news:nFqyh.37305$5U4.4709@trnddc07...
or "all wet in Leesburg on a freezing day"

My greenhouse is 30 x 100 feet and I consider it to be a 'barely'
commercial sized greenhouse. It sits on my property with my home. When I
built it I ran water from my house into the greenhouse and was thankful
that I was on a private well and did not need to worry about paying for
water from the city.

As the greenhouse grew to its final size and filled with orchids I came to
the understanding that I was spending 10 hours a week on watering chores
by hose, so over the last two years I have been adding small self-watering
zones which I can run for 1/2 an hour each. This strategy frees up my
time, but the trade off is in water usage. Water is running on average
about 4 hours a day.

When I ran the water line from the house to greenhouse I was smart enough
to bring out hot water too. This allows me to mix in warm water so i
don't shock the plants with ground water which is around 55 (not Celsius).
However, I did not understand how pipe dimensions effect flow rate and I
allowed the plumber to run 1/2 line into the greenhouse off the 3/4 line
in the house. This limited my gallons per hour (gph) max flow to about
220 down from something closer to 375 gph. (Once you step down to 1/2
diameter line, screwing on a 3/4 inch hose in the greenhouse does not
re-increase the flow rate.) So each zone in my greenhouse is limited to
222 gph. I have a lot of zones. I have calculated that if I run each
zone for half an hour I soak each pot in the zone with the equivalent of
1/2 of rain and this seems to work. I arrange the plants/pot sizes in
each zone so that they require watering at about the same time as the
other plants/pot sizes in the same zone. Some zones get watered every
day, like the Vandas. Some get watered two or three times a week, some
only once....

At about 4 hours a day average, I am drawing about 900 gallons a day from
my well, which fortunately has a very good refresh rate. I am throwing
water in a spray pattern into zones and a lot gets wasted, but I am saving
time since I don't have to spend 10 hours a week with a hose putting water
into each pot that needs it. I haven't quite figured out how to make the
drip irrigation idea work on a pot only basis with orchid bark/course
potting material. It would be very nice to find a way to spray water only
over the top of say a six inch pot so as it dripped through the pot, all
the media received water. Drip systems tend to run straight threw and
most of the potting media/root system remains dry. Then there is the
problem of pots getting moved around by well meaning customers and drip
emitters getting constantly knocked out of pots. The zone spray system
avoids these problems. It rains in my greenhouse in small square foot
areas I control.

Anyway, the submersible well pump of my house's well pushes water up into
a pressurized holding tank. It comes up from 50 feet underground through
a 1 inch line and goes into a small 20 gallon holding tank in my basement.
This pump uses a "surge" of electricity to accomplish this task. Water is
heavy and it has to be pushed UP a very long way but under normal
circumstances it does not have to stay on long.

A 20 gallon tank gives you 4 gallons of water usage before the pump is
switched on. If I understand correctly, most of this tank is a
pressurized air bladder. When I flush a toilet or turn on the dishwasher
water is pushed out of the tank through the 3/4 inch and 1/2 copper line
that circulates to all the faucets in my house because of the pressurized
air bladder in the holding tank. It is a very small tank but sufficient
for a low use house hold. A 50 gallon tank would be better, but it is a
20 gallon tank.

This means, I get one flush and the pressure in the tank pushes 4 gallons
of water into the toilet holding thank and this triggers the well pump to
surge on and push 4 gallons back into the holding tank. Water, once in
the pressurized holding tank, is pushed through the pipes passively; no
electrical consumption.

The first thing I noticed over the last two years with my new zone
watering system was that the well pump ran constantly and my electric bill
went way high because it takes a lot of energy to move that much water up
out of the ground but I got used to it.

However, the pump was never meant to run all the time. It was only a
matter of time before it burned out. It was 45 years old and been run to
death in the last 2 two to 5 years of it's life. It chose a coldest night
in February to die. It gave me everything it had I didn't even know it
was there, really.... Also, the holding tank pressure bladder wore out a
long time ago, apparently. This means every time I got a glass of water
for the last few years I had to rely on the well pump and the surge of
electricity it takes to move 8 oz of water from 50 feet below ground
through several thousand feet of pipe.

And the pump finally died and a well professional was called to explain
all this to me. I have no choice but to replace the pump and the holding
tank, but I am getting a more energy efficient pump and a larger 119
gallon holding tank. Without ever mentioning the electricity bill to the
well professional he looked at all this information and said, "I'll bet
you see a big drop in your electric bill with this new set-up." Anyway,
"this new set up" is costing way more than I care to admit, but it was
inevitable and I should have seen it coming.

The bottom lines he I may have to go back to watering the old way; the
10 hours a week manual method. It uses much less water than the spray
emitter zone system I installed over the last two years. I may do a
little of both depending on which is cheaper at the moment, my time OR my
electricity. One way or the other watering a commercial greenhouse turns
out to be a major expense consideration. Even out of a private well,
water is not free.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over
and over again with the subject
*^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still
asleep.

Gene Schurg wrote:
Al,

You have an opportunity here to be very creative.

If it was my problem I would look at what plants took the most time to
water. Are there zones in the greenhouse that are more difficult to water?
Areas that hard to reach? I would keep them on the automatic system.

Have you considered getting water barrels and storing water around the edges
of the Greenhouse. This could help with the heating costs by creating a
heat sink. Could then use that water to run some of the zones with a sump
pump. Refilling the barrels could be at a slower drip rate that would not
put as much demand on the well pump. You are very creative and I'm sure you
have all the calculations for the size of the barrels, gallons per hour,
etc.

900 gallons a day at 50 gallons per barrel would be 18 barrels of 55 degree
water. Pump it up for 20 hours and disperse it over 4 hours. If you
installed a swimming pool in the center of the Greenhouse you could also
take a dip in middle of the day. Be creative!

What about collecting rainwater? Could you collect rainwater for the GH and
store it in barrels?

Good Growing,
Gene



"al" wrote in message
news:nFqyh.37305$5U4.4709@trnddc07...

or "all wet in Leesburg on a freezing day"

My greenhouse is 30 x 100 feet and I consider it to be a 'barely'
commercial sized greenhouse. It sits on my property with my home. When I
built it I ran water from my house into the greenhouse and was thankful
that I was on a private well and did not need to worry about paying for
water from the city.

As the greenhouse grew to its final size and filled with orchids I came to
the understanding that I was spending 10 hours a week on watering chores
by hose, so over the last two years I have been adding small self-watering
zones which I can run for 1/2 an hour each. This strategy frees up my
time, but the trade off is in water usage. Water is running on average
about 4 hours a day.

When I ran the water line from the house to greenhouse I was smart enough
to bring out hot water too. This allows me to mix in warm water so i
don't shock the plants with ground water which is around 55 (not Celsius).
However, I did not understand how pipe dimensions effect flow rate and I
allowed the plumber to run 1/2 line into the greenhouse off the 3/4 line
in the house. This limited my gallons per hour (gph) max flow to about
220 down from something closer to 375 gph. (Once you step down to 1/2
diameter line, screwing on a 3/4 inch hose in the greenhouse does not
re-increase the flow rate.) So each zone in my greenhouse is limited to
222 gph. I have a lot of zones. I have calculated that if I run each
zone for half an hour I soak each pot in the zone with the equivalent of
1/2 of rain and this seems to work. I arrange the plants/pot sizes in
each zone so that they require watering at about the same time as the
other plants/pot sizes in the same zone. Some zones get watered every
day, like the Vandas. Some get watered two or three times a week, some
only once....

At about 4 hours a day average, I am drawing about 900 gallons a day from
my well, which fortunately has a very good refresh rate. I am throwing
water in a spray pattern into zones and a lot gets wasted, but I am saving
time since I don't have to spend 10 hours a week with a hose putting water
into each pot that needs it. I haven't quite figured out how to make the
drip irrigation idea work on a pot only basis with orchid bark/course
potting material. It would be very nice to find a way to spray water only
over the top of say a six inch pot so as it dripped through the pot, all
the media received water. Drip systems tend to run straight threw and
most of the potting media/root system remains dry. Then there is the
problem of pots getting moved around by well meaning customers and drip
emitters getting constantly knocked out of pots. The zone spray system
avoids these problems. It rains in my greenhouse in small square foot
areas I control.

Anyway, the submersible well pump of my house's well pushes water up into
a pressurized holding tank. It comes up from 50 feet underground through
a 1 inch line and goes into a small 20 gallon holding tank in my basement.
This pump uses a "surge" of electricity to accomplish this task. Water is
heavy and it has to be pushed UP a very long way but under normal
circumstances it does not have to stay on long.

A 20 gallon tank gives you 4 gallons of water usage before the pump is
switched on. If I understand correctly, most of this tank is a
pressurized air bladder. When I flush a toilet or turn on the dishwasher
water is pushed out of the tank through the 3/4 inch and 1/2 copper line
that circulates to all the faucets in my house because of the pressurized
air bladder in the holding tank. It is a very small tank but sufficient
for a low use house hold. A 50 gallon tank would be better, but it is a
20 gallon tank.

This means, I get one flush and the pressure in the tank pushes 4 gallons
of water into the toilet holding thank and this triggers the well pump to
surge on and push 4 gallons back into the holding tank. Water, once in
the pressurized holding tank, is pushed through the pipes passively; no
electrical consumption.

The first thing I noticed over the last two years with my new zone
watering system was that the well pump ran constantly and my electric bill
went way high because it takes a lot of energy to move that much water up
out of the ground but I got used to it.

However, the pump was never meant to run all the time. It was only a
matter of time before it burned out. It was 45 years old and been run to
death in the last 2 two to 5 years of it's life. It chose a coldest night
in February to die. It gave me everything it had I didn't even know it
was there, really.... Also, the holding tank pressure bladder wore out a
long time ago, apparently. This means every time I got a glass of water
for the last few years I had to rely on the well pump and the surge of
electricity it takes to move 8 oz of water from 50 feet below ground
through several thousand feet of pipe.

And the pump finally died and a well professional was called to explain
all this to me. I have no choice but to replace the pump and the holding
tank, but I am getting a more energy efficient pump and a larger 119
gallon holding tank. Without ever mentioning the electricity bill to the
well professional he looked at all this information and said, "I'll bet
you see a big drop in your electric bill with this new set-up." Anyway,
"this new set up" is costing way more than I care to admit, but it was
inevitable and I should have seen it coming.

The bottom lines he I may have to go back to watering the old way; the
10 hours a week manual method. It uses much less water than the spray
emitter zone system I installed over the last two years. I may do a
little of both depending on which is cheaper at the moment, my time OR my
electricity. One way or the other watering a commercial greenhouse turns
out to be a major expense consideration. Even out of a private well,
water is not free.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over
and over again with the subject
*^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still
asleep.




When I left for work yesterday morning at 6:30 a.m., it was minus 15°F
(not counting the wind) in mid-coast Maine. I've taken to putting an
extra sheet of plexiglass between the window orchids and the windows
they're in. Seem to keep them from dying.

Al,

Your well man is probably right. I've been told that it takes twice as much
electricity to start a motor as it does to run it. Your pump was probably
'waterlogged'. There was no air in it for a cushion so it stopped and likely
started more often than you thought. Maybe many times for that four gallon
flush.
My well man told me a few years back (when replacing my pump) that a pump is
designed for about 100,000 'on/off' cycles. Thus a larger tank means the
pump turns on and off a lot less and is more efficient pumping. You might
have been getting a cup or two, now you will get maybe 31 gallons depending
on your pressure settings.

I installed an 80 gallon tank a few years ago and am guessing I added 10 or
15 years to the life of my pump.

Bob

"Dayton" wrote in message
...
Gene Schurg wrote:
Al,

You have an opportunity here to be very creative.

If it was my problem I would look at what plants took the most time to
water. Are there zones in the greenhouse that are more difficult to
water? Areas that hard to reach? I would keep them on the automatic
system.

Have you considered getting water barrels and storing water around the
edges of the Greenhouse. This could help with the heating costs by
creating a heat sink. Could then use that water to run some of the zones
with a sump pump. Refilling the barrels could be at a slower drip rate
that would not put as much demand on the well pump. You are very
creative and I'm sure you have all the calculations for the size of the
barrels, gallons per hour, etc.

900 gallons a day at 50 gallons per barrel would be 18 barrels of 55
degree water. Pump it up for 20 hours and disperse it over 4 hours. If
you installed a swimming pool in the center of the Greenhouse you could
also take a dip in middle of the day. Be creative!

What about collecting rainwater? Could you collect rainwater for the GH
and store it in barrels?

Good Growing,
Gene



"al" wrote in message
news:nFqyh.37305$5U4.4709@trnddc07...

or "all wet in Leesburg on a freezing day"

My greenhouse is 30 x 100 feet and I consider it to be a 'barely'
commercial sized greenhouse. It sits on my property with my home. When
I built it I ran water from my house into the greenhouse and was thankful
that I was on a private well and did not need to worry about paying for
water from the city.

As the greenhouse grew to its final size and filled with orchids I came
to the understanding that I was spending 10 hours a week on watering
chores by hose, so over the last two years I have been adding small
self-watering zones which I can run for 1/2 an hour each. This strategy
frees up my time, but the trade off is in water usage. Water is running
on average about 4 hours a day.

When I ran the water line from the house to greenhouse I was smart enough
to bring out hot water too. This allows me to mix in warm water so i
don't shock the plants with ground water which is around 55 (not
Celsius). However, I did not understand how pipe dimensions effect flow
rate and I allowed the plumber to run 1/2 line into the greenhouse off
the 3/4 line in the house. This limited my gallons per hour (gph) max
flow to about 220 down from something closer to 375 gph. (Once you step
down to 1/2 diameter line, screwing on a 3/4 inch hose in the greenhouse
does not re-increase the flow rate.) So each zone in my greenhouse is
limited to 222 gph. I have a lot of zones. I have calculated that if I
run each zone for half an hour I soak each pot in the zone with the
equivalent of 1/2 of rain and this seems to work. I arrange the
plants/pot sizes in each zone so that they require watering at about the
same time as the other plants/pot sizes in the same zone. Some zones get
watered every day, like the Vandas. Some get watered two or three times
a week, some only once....

At about 4 hours a day average, I am drawing about 900 gallons a day from
my well, which fortunately has a very good refresh rate. I am throwing
water in a spray pattern into zones and a lot gets wasted, but I am
saving time since I don't have to spend 10 hours a week with a hose
putting water into each pot that needs it. I haven't quite figured out
how to make the drip irrigation idea work on a pot only basis with orchid
bark/course potting material. It would be very nice to find a way to
spray water only over the top of say a six inch pot so as it dripped
through the pot, all the media received water. Drip systems tend to run
straight threw and most of the potting media/root system remains dry.
Then there is the problem of pots getting moved around by well meaning
customers and drip emitters getting constantly knocked out of pots. The
zone spray system avoids these problems. It rains in my greenhouse in
small square foot areas I control.

Anyway, the submersible well pump of my house's well pushes water up into
a pressurized holding tank. It comes up from 50 feet underground through
a 1 inch line and goes into a small 20 gallon holding tank in my
basement. This pump uses a "surge" of electricity to accomplish this
task. Water is heavy and it has to be pushed UP a very long way but
under normal circumstances it does not have to stay on long.

A 20 gallon tank gives you 4 gallons of water usage before the pump is
switched on. If I understand correctly, most of this tank is a
pressurized air bladder. When I flush a toilet or turn on the dishwasher
water is pushed out of the tank through the 3/4 inch and 1/2 copper line
that circulates to all the faucets in my house because of the pressurized
air bladder in the holding tank. It is a very small tank but sufficient
for a low use house hold. A 50 gallon tank would be better, but it is a
20 gallon tank.

This means, I get one flush and the pressure in the tank pushes 4 gallons
of water into the toilet holding thank and this triggers the well pump to
surge on and push 4 gallons back into the holding tank. Water, once in
the pressurized holding tank, is pushed through the pipes passively; no
electrical consumption.

The first thing I noticed over the last two years with my new zone
watering system was that the well pump ran constantly and my electric
bill went way high because it takes a lot of energy to move that much
water up out of the ground but I got used to it.

However, the pump was never meant to run all the time. It was only a
matter of time before it burned out. It was 45 years old and been run to
death in the last 2 two to 5 years of it's life. It chose a coldest
night in February to die. It gave me everything it had I didn't even
know it was there, really.... Also, the holding tank pressure bladder
wore out a long time ago, apparently. This means every time I got a
glass of water for the last few years I had to rely on the well pump and
the surge of electricity it takes to move 8 oz of water from 50 feet
below ground through several thousand feet of pipe.

And the pump finally died and a well professional was called to explain
all this to me. I have no choice but to replace the pump and the holding
tank, but I am getting a more energy efficient pump and a larger 119
gallon holding tank. Without ever mentioning the electricity bill to the
well professional he looked at all this information and said, "I'll bet
you see a big drop in your electric bill with this new set-up." Anyway,
"this new set up" is costing way more than I care to admit, but it was
inevitable and I should have seen it coming.

The bottom lines he I may have to go back to watering the old way;
the 10 hours a week manual method. It uses much less water than the
spray emitter zone system I installed over the last two years. I may do
a little of both depending on which is cheaper at the moment, my time OR
my electricity. One way or the other watering a commercial greenhouse
turns out to be a major expense consideration. Even out of a private
well, water is not free.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over
and over again with the subject
*^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still
asleep.




When I left for work yesterday morning at 6:30 a.m., it was minus 15°F
(not counting the wind) in mid-coast Maine. I've taken to putting an extra
sheet of plexiglass between the window orchids and the windows they're in.
Seem to keep them from dying.

Al, How about a windmill?
"al" wrote in message
news:nFqyh.37305$5U4.4709@trnddc07...
or "all wet in Leesburg on a freezing day"

My greenhouse is 30 x 100 feet and I consider it to be a 'barely'
commercial sized greenhouse. It sits on my property with my home. When I
built it I ran water from my house into the greenhouse and was thankful
that I was on a private well and did not need to worry about paying for
water from the city.

As the greenhouse grew to its final size and filled with orchids I came to
the understanding that I was spending 10 hours a week on watering chores
by hose, so over the last two years I have been adding small self-watering
zones which I can run for 1/2 an hour each. This strategy frees up my
time, but the trade off is in water usage. Water is running on average
about 4 hours a day.

When I ran the water line from the house to greenhouse I was smart enough
to bring out hot water too. This allows me to mix in warm water so i
don't shock the plants with ground water which is around 55 (not Celsius).
However, I did not understand how pipe dimensions effect flow rate and I
allowed the plumber to run 1/2 line into the greenhouse off the 3/4 line
in the house. This limited my gallons per hour (gph) max flow to about
220 down from something closer to 375 gph. (Once you step down to 1/2
diameter line, screwing on a 3/4 inch hose in the greenhouse does not
re-increase the flow rate.) So each zone in my greenhouse is limited to
222 gph. I have a lot of zones. I have calculated that if I run each
zone for half an hour I soak each pot in the zone with the equivalent of
1/2 of rain and this seems to work. I arrange the plants/pot sizes in
each zone so that they require watering at about the same time as the
other plants/pot sizes in the same zone. Some zones get watered every
day, like the Vandas. Some get watered two or three times a week, some
only once....

At about 4 hours a day average, I am drawing about 900 gallons a day from
my well, which fortunately has a very good refresh rate. I am throwing
water in a spray pattern into zones and a lot gets wasted, but I am saving
time since I don't have to spend 10 hours a week with a hose putting water
into each pot that needs it. I haven't quite figured out how to make the
drip irrigation idea work on a pot only basis with orchid bark/course
potting material. It would be very nice to find a way to spray water only
over the top of say a six inch pot so as it dripped through the pot, all
the media received water. Drip systems tend to run straight threw and
most of the potting media/root system remains dry. Then there is the
problem of pots getting moved around by well meaning customers and drip
emitters getting constantly knocked out of pots. The zone spray system
avoids these problems. It rains in my greenhouse in small square foot
areas I control.

Anyway, the submersible well pump of my house's well pushes water up into
a pressurized holding tank. It comes up from 50 feet underground through
a 1 inch line and goes into a small 20 gallon holding tank in my basement.
This pump uses a "surge" of electricity to accomplish this task. Water is
heavy and it has to be pushed UP a very long way but under normal
circumstances it does not have to stay on long.

A 20 gallon tank gives you 4 gallons of water usage before the pump is
switched on. If I understand correctly, most of this tank is a
pressurized air bladder. When I flush a toilet or turn on the dishwasher
water is pushed out of the tank through the 3/4 inch and 1/2 copper line
that circulates to all the faucets in my house because of the pressurized
air bladder in the holding tank. It is a very small tank but sufficient
for a low use house hold. A 50 gallon tank would be better, but it is a
20 gallon tank.

This means, I get one flush and the pressure in the tank pushes 4 gallons
of water into the toilet holding thank and this triggers the well pump to
surge on and push 4 gallons back into the holding tank. Water, once in
the pressurized holding tank, is pushed through the pipes passively; no
electrical consumption.

The first thing I noticed over the last two years with my new zone
watering system was that the well pump ran constantly and my electric bill
went way high because it takes a lot of energy to move that much water up
out of the ground but I got used to it.

However, the pump was never meant to run all the time. It was only a
matter of time before it burned out. It was 45 years old and been run to
death in the last 2 two to 5 years of it's life. It chose a coldest night
in February to die. It gave me everything it had I didn't even know it
was there, really.... Also, the holding tank pressure bladder wore out a
long time ago, apparently. This means every time I got a glass of water
for the last few years I had to rely on the well pump and the surge of
electricity it takes to move 8 oz of water from 50 feet below ground
through several thousand feet of pipe.

And the pump finally died and a well professional was called to explain
all this to me. I have no choice but to replace the pump and the holding
tank, but I am getting a more energy efficient pump and a larger 119
gallon holding tank. Without ever mentioning the electricity bill to the
well professional he looked at all this information and said, "I'll bet
you see a big drop in your electric bill with this new set-up." Anyway,
"this new set up" is costing way more than I care to admit, but it was
inevitable and I should have seen it coming.

The bottom lines he I may have to go back to watering the old way; the
10 hours a week manual method. It uses much less water than the spray
emitter zone system I installed over the last two years. I may do a
little of both depending on which is cheaper at the moment, my time OR my
electricity. One way or the other watering a commercial greenhouse turns
out to be a major expense consideration. Even out of a private well,
water is not free.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over
and over again with the subject
*^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still
asleep.

On Feb 8, 10:44 pm, "Bob Walsh" wrote:
Al,

Your well man is probably right. I've been told that it takes twice as much
electricity to start a motor as it does to run it....


Yep. A big inrush current is necessary to overcome the inertia of the
system, but pump motor designs are also more efficient than they were
45 years ago. I suspect that's where the savings will come from.

We have a pressurized hot water heating system in our house. The old
pump motor was a big, noisy monster. When it failed, it was replaced
with a small, quiet, far more efficient motor/impeller pump.

J. Del Col

On Feb 9, 8:10 am, "jadel" wrote:
On Feb 8, 10:44 pm, "Bob Walsh" wrote:

Al,

Your well man is probably right. I've been told that it takes twice as much
electricity to start a motor as it does to run it....

Yep. A big inrush current is necessary to overcome the inertia of the
system, but pump motor designs are also more efficient than they were
45 years ago. I suspect that's where the savings will come from.


And, as Bob said, the bigger holding tank will help quite a bit, too.
The fewer the daily cycles, the longer the pump life.

J. Del Col

When I lived in SC - usually very sunny in the winter, even if it did get
pretty cold at times - my "benches" were bread flats on top of 55-gallon
drums filled with water and painted black to help solar gain.

That technique worked so well that it was tough to get phals to bloom - it
just wouldn't cool enough unless I opened a vent. Of course I did have 30
drums in a 14' x 14' greenhouse.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Gene Schurg" wrote in message
news:MSHyh.13864$fT1.435@trndny02...
Al,

You have an opportunity here to be very creative.

If it was my problem I would look at what plants took the most time to
water. Are there zones in the greenhouse that are more difficult to
water? Areas that hard to reach? I would keep them on the automatic
system.

Have you considered getting water barrels and storing water around the
edges of the Greenhouse. This could help with the heating costs by
creating a heat sink. Could then use that water to run some of the zones
with a sump pump. Refilling the barrels could be at a slower drip rate
that would not put as much demand on the well pump. You are very creative
and I'm sure you have all the calculations for the size of the barrels,
gallons per hour, etc.

900 gallons a day at 50 gallons per barrel would be 18 barrels of 55
degree water. Pump it up for 20 hours and disperse it over 4 hours. If
you installed a swimming pool in the center of the Greenhouse you could
also take a dip in middle of the day. Be creative!

What about collecting rainwater? Could you collect rainwater for the GH
and store it in barrels?

Good Growing,
Gene



"al" wrote in message
news:nFqyh.37305$5U4.4709@trnddc07...
or "all wet in Leesburg on a freezing day"

My greenhouse is 30 x 100 feet and I consider it to be a 'barely'
commercial sized greenhouse. It sits on my property with my home. When
I built it I ran water from my house into the greenhouse and was thankful
that I was on a private well and did not need to worry about paying for
water from the city.

As the greenhouse grew to its final size and filled with orchids I came
to the understanding that I was spending 10 hours a week on watering
chores by hose, so over the last two years I have been adding small
self-watering zones which I can run for 1/2 an hour each. This strategy
frees up my time, but the trade off is in water usage. Water is running
on average about 4 hours a day.

When I ran the water line from the house to greenhouse I was smart enough
to bring out hot water too. This allows me to mix in warm water so i
don't shock the plants with ground water which is around 55 (not
Celsius). However, I did not understand how pipe dimensions effect flow
rate and I allowed the plumber to run 1/2 line into the greenhouse off
the 3/4 line in the house. This limited my gallons per hour (gph) max
flow to about 220 down from something closer to 375 gph. (Once you step
down to 1/2 diameter line, screwing on a 3/4 inch hose in the greenhouse
does not re-increase the flow rate.) So each zone in my greenhouse is
limited to 222 gph. I have a lot of zones. I have calculated that if I
run each zone for half an hour I soak each pot in the zone with the
equivalent of 1/2 of rain and this seems to work. I arrange the
plants/pot sizes in each zone so that they require watering at about the
same time as the other plants/pot sizes in the same zone. Some zones get
watered every day, like the Vandas. Some get watered two or three times
a week, some only once....

At about 4 hours a day average, I am drawing about 900 gallons a day from
my well, which fortunately has a very good refresh rate. I am throwing
water in a spray pattern into zones and a lot gets wasted, but I am
saving time since I don't have to spend 10 hours a week with a hose
putting water into each pot that needs it. I haven't quite figured out
how to make the drip irrigation idea work on a pot only basis with orchid
bark/course potting material. It would be very nice to find a way to
spray water only over the top of say a six inch pot so as it dripped
through the pot, all the media received water. Drip systems tend to run
straight threw and most of the potting media/root system remains dry.
Then there is the problem of pots getting moved around by well meaning
customers and drip emitters getting constantly knocked out of pots. The
zone spray system avoids these problems. It rains in my greenhouse in
small square foot areas I control.

Anyway, the submersible well pump of my house's well pushes water up into
a pressurized holding tank. It comes up from 50 feet underground through
a 1 inch line and goes into a small 20 gallon holding tank in my
basement. This pump uses a "surge" of electricity to accomplish this
task. Water is heavy and it has to be pushed UP a very long way but
under normal circumstances it does not have to stay on long.

A 20 gallon tank gives you 4 gallons of water usage before the pump is
switched on. If I understand correctly, most of this tank is a
pressurized air bladder. When I flush a toilet or turn on the dishwasher
water is pushed out of the tank through the 3/4 inch and 1/2 copper line
that circulates to all the faucets in my house because of the pressurized
air bladder in the holding tank. It is a very small tank but sufficient
for a low use house hold. A 50 gallon tank would be better, but it is a
20 gallon tank.

This means, I get one flush and the pressure in the tank pushes 4 gallons
of water into the toilet holding thank and this triggers the well pump to
surge on and push 4 gallons back into the holding tank. Water, once in
the pressurized holding tank, is pushed through the pipes passively; no
electrical consumption.

The first thing I noticed over the last two years with my new zone
watering system was that the well pump ran constantly and my electric
bill went way high because it takes a lot of energy to move that much
water up out of the ground but I got used to it.

However, the pump was never meant to run all the time. It was only a
matter of time before it burned out. It was 45 years old and been run to
death in the last 2 two to 5 years of it's life. It chose a coldest
night in February to die. It gave me everything it had I didn't even
know it was there, really.... Also, the holding tank pressure bladder
wore out a long time ago, apparently. This means every time I got a
glass of water for the last few years I had to rely on the well pump and
the surge of electricity it takes to move 8 oz of water from 50 feet
below ground through several thousand feet of pipe.

And the pump finally died and a well professional was called to explain
all this to me. I have no choice but to replace the pump and the holding
tank, but I am getting a more energy efficient pump and a larger 119
gallon holding tank. Without ever mentioning the electricity bill to the
well professional he looked at all this information and said, "I'll bet
you see a big drop in your electric bill with this new set-up." Anyway,
"this new set up" is costing way more than I care to admit, but it was
inevitable and I should have seen it coming.

The bottom lines he I may have to go back to watering the old way;
the 10 hours a week manual method. It uses much less water than the
spray emitter zone system I installed over the last two years. I may do
a little of both depending on which is cheaper at the moment, my time OR
my electricity. One way or the other watering a commercial greenhouse
turns out to be a major expense consideration. Even out of a private
well, water is not free.

Thank you for reading. I may post this to 25 different newsgroups over
and over again with the subject
*^*^*^*^*Winches in T-shirts all wet in frigid Leesburg while British M15
agency secretly watches^*^*^*^*^*^"
just to see how many ISP abuse desk clerks on the internet are still
asleep.

On Feb 9, 10:07 am, "Ray B" wrote:
When I lived in SC - usually very sunny in the winter, even if it did get
pretty cold at times - my "benches" were bread flats on top of 55-gallon
drums filled with water and painted black to help solar gain.

That technique worked so well that it was tough to get phals to bloom - it
just wouldn't cool enough unless I opened a vent. Of course I did have 30
drums in a 14' x 14' greenhouse.


Thirty drums?! No wonder it stayed toasty. The aisles must have been
a bit tight.

J. Del Col

On Feb 8, 9:21 pm, Dayton wrote:


When I left for work yesterday morning at 6:30 a.m., it was minus 15°F
(not counting the wind) in mid-coast Maine. I've taken to putting an
extra sheet of plexiglass between the window orchids and the windows
they're in. Seem to keep them from dying.

i stuck bubble wrap to my windows. plants still look sickly, and the
damn phals still aren't spiking.

al, you are a better man than i am. i have two dozen that get hauled
in to the kitchen and watered in the sink once a week, and that's a
big enough pain in the butt for me.

--j_a

On Feb 9, 10:26 am, "jadel" wrote:
On Feb 9, 10:07 am, "Ray B" wrote:

When I lived in SC - usually very sunny in the winter, even if it did get
pretty cold at times - my "benches" were bread flats on top of 55-gallon
drums filled with water and painted black to help solar gain.

That technique worked so well that it was tough to get phals to bloom - it
just wouldn't cool enough unless I opened a vent. Of course I did have 30
drums in a 14' x 14' greenhouse.


Hmmm... according to my hasty calculations, those drums, including
the space between them, took up about 90 square feet of the 196 sq/ft
area. Did you put them all in the center and work around them?

J. Del Col

J_a,

I on the other hand have 53 orchids that all get hauled to the kitchen sink
and watered on a schedule that is based on an average of previous watering
times for each particular plant as calculated by the MsAccess database
query -- at times of low humidity (such as now) I look ahead in the query
and check whether the orchids for the next few days should already be
watered -- when the wheather changes though I am able to slack off more and
not check my database query as often and water orchids that are overdue. I
find that for me it is easier if I water a few every day or every other day
than watering only once a week and then having to spend an hour or two
watering them all. Of course there are times when I slack off at
inappropriate times and then my orchids get extra-dry, but since most of
them are fairly tolerant of neglect, that's ok. I am thinking of tossing my
cochleanthes amazonica, it's not doing well, and it's too high
maintenance -- not tolerant of neglect. I am going to keep my toddler
though, even though the too high maintenance would apply to him as well, but
unlike the cochleanthes he's worth it. ;-)

Joanna


wrote in message
oups.com...
On Feb 8, 9:21 pm, Dayton wrote:


When I left for work yesterday morning at 6:30 a.m., it was minus 15°F
(not counting the wind) in mid-coast Maine. I've taken to putting an
extra sheet of plexiglass between the window orchids and the windows
they're in. Seem to keep them from dying.

i stuck bubble wrap to my windows. plants still look sickly, and the
damn phals still aren't spiking.

al, you are a better man than i am. i have two dozen that get hauled
in to the kitchen and watered in the sink once a week, and that's a
big enough pain in the butt for me.

--j_a

I am going to keep my toddler though, even though the too high maintenance
would apply to him as well, but unlike the cochleanthes he's worth it. ;-)

Well, one hopes so!! S

Diana