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Old 07-05-2007, 02:26 AM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Default Bayer Advanced Tree & Shrub (imidocloprid)

Observations from a landscape (not greenhouse) gardener regarding
imidocloprid best use and best effect in zone 5a Maine.

God help you folks with greenhouses and orchids!

I'm using this product for 3rd annual application. I use it for pest
control of specifically japanese beetle and birch leaf borer, and
anything else that wants a piece of my landscaping.

I've found it works best on NEW growth. This seems to be shown true
with other posts. I'm applying it right now (5/6/07) as birches and
elms are just starting to swell leaf buds.

One fluid ounce of concentrate per inch of circumference of tree trunk
at chest height mixed in a gallon of water and watered in at base of
tree with dry ground and no rain expected for 24h hours and followed
with another gallon of water as a 'chaser'.

This is the ONLY way to get ALL edible parts of the trees. OLD
greenery on trees is not protected by late spring application, IF it's
your first application.

Chewing and sucking insects --- DIE! DIE! DIE!

This is a SYSTEMIC pesticide. I do NOT think that any 'foliar' or
'watering greenery' application techniques will have ANY effect,
except that product which hits the earth and is then taken up by root
system of plants. Note that there are folks posting this method of
application. I consider it a waste of time and product. Use other
appropriate pesticides for 'immediate' and 'application active'
effects.

The planning of early application (pre-greenery) and patience of
waiting for the little buggers to DARE chew/suck on greenery grown
from bud while soil treated have paid off well.

I also apply this to rugosa rose and clematis and wild filbert bushes
- whatever I've seen the ******* japanese beetles chewing on over the
past 14 years - scorched earth policy. These buggers are flying in
from other folks' lawns, because I have treated my minimal grassed
areas with nematodes, etc, to eradicate the larvae.

I cannot say what can and cannot be treated and at what application
rate with this product with greenhouse plants and orchids, but it must
be new growth for under 1 month initiation of protection and must
always be root application for effect. Treat all plants yearly from
smallest green thing onward?

I do think that it does stunt the rapid growth of elm trees, however.
I have three Elm Institute Dutch Elm resistant trees from 1991 - 1993
propagation and they do not seem to be growing with the 6 - 12 feet
leaps they used to have. It may be the imidocloprid and it may be
their current growth phase/size (40 -55 ft)

I've had the INTENSE and MULTIPLE pleasure of having a UMaine botony
master's student providing orchids in full bloom 'extracted' from the
Deering Greenhouses's and installed (temporarily) in my men's dorm
gang bathrooms (like they needed the moisture in bloom!?) back in the
early 1980's, so I can appreciate what some of you folks are enjoying.

Good luck. And, happy (bug) hunting!

Thanks.

ChristopherD


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Old 08-05-2007, 06:02 AM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Default Bayer Advanced Tree & Shrub (imidocloprid)

Christopher,

We've been using Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub in the OrchidMania
greenhouses for about 8 months now - applying every 4-8 weeks as our GH
manager has the time - diluted and put into a hand sprayer. We dilute to the
rate of 1/2 tsp per 24 oz water.

Scale and aphids are dramatically down - only have spot infestations now
whereas before whole sections were getting engulfed by scale and every new
bud covered in aphids.

We're starting to think about switching - I am sure the buggers are
developing resistance as we speak. We're looking at starting prophylactic
Enstar II as the next thing.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org
www.orchids.org

wrote in message
ps.com...
Observations from a landscape (not greenhouse) gardener regarding
imidocloprid best use and best effect in zone 5a Maine.



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Old 08-05-2007, 11:04 AM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Posts: 479
Default Bayer Advanced Tree & Shrub (imidocloprid)

In my opinion, one should NEVER use insecticides as a preventive treatment.

If I may "borrow" Eric's example, a killing dose of imidicloprid (via that
specific product, according to the manufacturer*) is to use 1 ounce per
gallon, applied 2 or 3 times at weekly intervals.

By using 1/2 tsp per 24 oz, the application concentration is less than half,
meaning it is less toxic and might leave some survivors that having been
exposed, may build some resistance to it. Likewise, the 4- to 8 weeks
between applications is well beyond the complete life cycle of a lot of
critters, so if they were exposed and began to develop immunity, they will
have had the opportunity to mature, reproduce, and potentially pass that
trait on.

Preventive treatments with s-kinoprene (Enstar II) on the other had, is
safe, and definitely the way to go, as the chemical is an insect growth
regulator that prevents the maturation of all stages of the insects' life.
No maturation = no reproduction = no population and more importantly, no way
to develop and pass on immunity to offspring, which is how a resistant
population develops.

Even better, Enstar II apparently has no effect on bees, which cannot be
said for most insecticides.

If one absolutely insists on doing "preventive" insecticidal treatments, the
very least that should be done is to switch insecticides - or more
specifically, the killing mechanism - at each treatment. By doing so, even
though you are not affecting a complete kill, the likelihood of a bug being
resistant to two different chemicals is much lower than to repeated doses of
a singe one.

* The asterisk next to the "according to the manufacturer" comment was to
remind me to state that in a phone call, it was recommended that I purchase
a different (more dilute and more expensive) Bayer product for use in the
greenhouse, but after some prodding about a comparison of the concentration
of the active ingredient, the CSR acknowledged that the Tree & Shrub stuff
was fine...

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


"Eric Hunt" wrote in message
...
Christopher,

We've been using Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub in the OrchidMania
greenhouses for about 8 months now - applying every 4-8 weeks as our GH
manager has the time - diluted and put into a hand sprayer. We dilute to
the rate of 1/2 tsp per 24 oz water.

Scale and aphids are dramatically down - only have spot infestations now
whereas before whole sections were getting engulfed by scale and every new
bud covered in aphids.

We're starting to think about switching - I am sure the buggers are
developing resistance as we speak. We're looking at starting prophylactic
Enstar II as the next thing.

-Eric in SF
www.orchidphotos.org
www.orchids.org

wrote in message
ps.com...
Observations from a landscape (not greenhouse) gardener regarding
imidocloprid best use and best effect in zone 5a Maine.







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