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Old 10-08-2007, 05:38 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
Rob Rob is offline
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Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

K Barrett wrote:
What I want to know is who made up these names? Who are these honorees? In
the past the person making the cross got the honor of the name. Mr. Ota got
to be Otaara becasue he put a Broughtonia on a Blc first. Who the heck is
Thwaits and why does he get to be a new name? Who is Peetse that he gets to
be the new Rhylc?


I was wondering if this was all some scheme to reward patrons of the
RHS, actually. I propose we give all nothogenera a number.
Thwaiteseara could be C00235-A2007. That is almost as easy to remember,
right? *grin*

Rob



--
Rob's Rules: http://littlefrogfarm.com
1) There is always room for one more orchid
2) There is always room for two more orchids
2a) See rule 1
3) When one has insufficient credit to obtain more
orchids, obtain more credit

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Old 10-08-2007, 06:49 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

"Rob" wrote in message
...
K Barrett wrote:
What I want to know is who made up these names? Who are these honorees?
In the past the person making the cross got the honor of the name. Mr.
Ota got to be Otaara becasue he put a Broughtonia on a Blc first. Who the
heck is Thwaits and why does he get to be a new name? Who is Peetse that
he gets to be the new Rhylc?


I was wondering if this was all some scheme to reward patrons of the RHS,
actually. I propose we give all nothogenera a number. Thwaiteseara could
be C00235-A2007. That is almost as easy to remember, right? *grin*

Rob


I Like it!

And I'll bet they ARE rewarding patrons.

K Barrett


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Old 10-08-2007, 09:51 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Butch to Sundance: Who are these guys?

"I can't swim!" "Don't worry. The fall's gonna kill you!"

LOL
Diana

"K Barrett" wrote in message
. ..
What I want to know is who made up these names? Who are these honorees?
In the past the person making the cross got the honor of the name. Mr. Ota
got to be Otaara becasue he put a Broughtonia on a Blc first. Who the heck
is Thwaits and why does he get to be a new name? Who is Peetse that he
gets to be the new Rhylc?


K Barrett

"Wendy7" wrote in message
...
With all the hullabaloo going on, I just want to know how & why the
changes?
Examples from Diana's list
"Brassocattleya Maikai is now Brassanthe Maikai"
"Brassolaeliocattleya Momilani Rainbow is now Thwaitesara Momilani
Rainbow"
One could develop a speach impediment with some of these names.
I like saying Blc. Momilani Rainbow now Thwait........
Cheers Wendy
"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Get ready for mass confusion. I rec'd the following today from Alex at
OrchidWiz. I can post this as originally rec'd if you like. I converted
it to plain text for this ng, so the links are not showing. Aren't
orchid people insane enough on our own without the Taxos piling on?

DK

OrchidWiz Alert: Name Changes

We would like to bring to your attention a recent change in genus names
in the International Register of Orchid Hybrids maintained by the RHS.
The change stems from the separation of Rhyncholaelia from Brassavola;
Guarianthe from Cattleya; the change from Brazilian Laelias to
Sophronites; and the separation of Schomburgkia into Myrmecophila and
Laelia.

The changes to Laeliinae species caused a massive domino effect
throughout hybrid nomenclature, impacting many thousands of crosses. The
transformation is drastic and inescapable. To give you some examples of
popular hybrids affected:

Brassolaeliocattleya Goldenzelle in now Rhynchosophrocattleya
Goldenzelle (click link to see)
Sophrolaeliocattleya Hazel Boyd is now Guarisophleya Hazel Boyd
Cattleytonia Why Not is now Guaritonia Why Not
Laeliocattleya Trick or Treat is now Sophranthe Trick or Treat
Cattleya Chocolate Drop is now Cattlianthe Chocolate Drop
Brassocattleya Maikai is now Brassanthe Maikai
Brassolaeliocattleya Momilani Rainbow is now Thwaitesara Momilani
Rainbow
Brassolaelia Morning Glory is now Brassonitis Morning Glory
Brassolaeliocattleya Golden Tang is now Marriottara Golden Tang
Epilaeliocattleya Don Herman is now Epicatanthe Don Herman
Otaara Jane Fumiye is now Peetersara Jane Fumiye
The new nomenclature in effect obsoletes all currently-published orchid
databases. OrchidWiz has already incorporated the changes into
Encyclopedia 4.01 (the September update) which will start shipping in
the next few days. The new version will include thousands of new
registrations as well as the June AQ. Please note all existing awards,
contributed photos and other historical data will remain under the old
names which will be "aliased" (linked) to the new names.

If you subscribe to the Annual Maintenance Plan you will be receiving
the update in the mail within a week or two. From now on we are holding
all new orders of 4.0 (or upgrades to 4.0) until the new software ships.

We thank you for your patience on this matter. If you have questions,
comments or concerns, please contact .

Best wishes,

- The team at OrchidWiz









  #34   Report Post  
Old 10-08-2007, 10:37 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

(((lol))) You're so funny! Cheers Wendy
wrote in message
oups.com...
i'm sitting here with a stack of internal revenue cumulative
bulletins on my desk, trying to update and change some cites in a
book--i thought *those* were tough on the renaming/cross referencing
thing--! oi. they got nothing on this orchid naming business.

i'm just going to keep calling 'em all Fred.

--j_a


  #35   Report Post  
Old 10-08-2007, 11:02 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Posts: 158
Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

IMHO, they are effectively "lost" now, because they will be so difficult to
use -- esp. for planning purposes (breeding new hybrids). I predict an
overall decrease in the number of new hybrids made -- dabblers, who have
made some really nice ones, will decide it's too much trouble -- and of
those still produced, a great increase in "trade names" like that Den. Emma
White. It isn't only Taiwan and Thailand who have begun to rebel, I see
more and more US nurseries selling unregistered hybrids, with and without
awards.

Other problems with the whole mess come up in the interaction between AOS
and RHS, and then what how Helga (if WildCatt is still around) and Alex
handle it. For example, the award on my Smbcna. (currently Ctph, last I
looked) Garnet Glory 'HCC/AOS' got dropped out of WildCatt for a couple of
years because, while RHS decided that it was a Ctph, AOS continued to list
the award as having been given to an Smbcna (or at least that's why Helga
told me it was left out, when I inquired). Alex did a better job (at least
from my point of view), but his product was not yet in wide circulation.
Others may seek awards for the personal satisfaction, but personally, if I'm
going to spend half a day dragging a plant to judging and then pay for the
award, I WANT the publicity -- to help me sell those 2000 clones ...

BTW to Diana: Apologies, I know you like your tags accurate (although what
constitutes "accurate" seems to be somewhat debatable at the moment ...),
but not even for _you_ am I going to relabel 15 or 20 thousand plants!
Kenni


"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
I think Kenni and Danny are right. I think the RHS has been pushing to
make "Cattlya" a generic name for many years now and we hobbyists have
freaked that the hybrid registration pages would be lost. SNIP





  #36   Report Post  
Old 10-08-2007, 11:31 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Kenni, I'm not even going to change *one* tag until the air clears, LOL!

Diana

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
news
IMHO, they are effectively "lost" now, because they will be so difficult
to use -- esp. for planning purposes (breeding new hybrids). I predict an
overall decrease in the number of new hybrids made -- dabblers, who have
made some really nice ones, will decide it's too much trouble -- and of
those still produced, a great increase in "trade names" like that Den.
Emma White. It isn't only Taiwan and Thailand who have begun to rebel, I
see more and more US nurseries selling unregistered hybrids, with and
without awards.

Other problems with the whole mess come up in the interaction between AOS
and RHS, and then what how Helga (if WildCatt is still around) and Alex
handle it. For example, the award on my Smbcna. (currently Ctph, last I
looked) Garnet Glory 'HCC/AOS' got dropped out of WildCatt for a couple of
years because, while RHS decided that it was a Ctph, AOS continued to list
the award as having been given to an Smbcna (or at least that's why Helga
told me it was left out, when I inquired). Alex did a better job (at
least from my point of view), but his product was not yet in wide
circulation. Others may seek awards for the personal satisfaction, but
personally, if I'm going to spend half a day dragging a plant to judging
and then pay for the award, I WANT the publicity -- to help me sell those
2000 clones ...

BTW to Diana: Apologies, I know you like your tags accurate (although
what constitutes "accurate" seems to be somewhat debatable at the moment
...), but not even for _you_ am I going to relabel 15 or 20 thousand
plants! Kenni


"K Barrett" wrote in message
...
I think Kenni and Danny are right. I think the RHS has been pushing to
make "Cattlya" a generic name for many years now and we hobbyists have
freaked that the hybrid registration pages would be lost. SNIP





  #37   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2007, 12:18 PM
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenni Judd View Post
IMHO, they are effectively "lost" now, because they will be so difficult to
use -- esp. for planning purposes (breeding new hybrids). I predict an
overall decrease in the number of new hybrids made -- dabblers, who have
made some really nice ones, will decide it's too much trouble -- and of
those still produced, a great increase in "trade names" like that Den. Emma
White. It isn't only Taiwan and Thailand who have begun to rebel, I see
more and more US nurseries selling unregistered hybrids, with and without
awards.
[/color]
May I ask why changing names is such a big deal? after all, the people who create new hybrids are supposed to do their research anyway. Changing names wont mean hybridization becomes suddenly more difficult. The plants are the same. I think it is very unlikely that commercial growers and serious hobbyists suddenly will stop hybridization just because the name of the crosses is different.

And as for the nurseries selling unregistered hybrids. it's nothing new or a big deal after all. Those plants are marketed for mass consumption as decorative plants. Many growers don't care about AOS awards or RHS registration, they just want to produce as many blooming plants as they can for valentine's, mother's day, etc. And most consumers don't care about tags either, nor should they be required. Again I fail to see how these changes will make any difference.
  #38   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2007, 03:54 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Posts: 1,344
Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Louis, so if it wasn't such a big deal and any serious person would do their
research anyway then why change them in the first place? Just to make the
names align with "current" thought? We are seeing great changes in
'current' thought and there's as yet no agreement on what 'current' thought
is ... so what's the rush?

And as for unregistered hybrids, the trouble is they don't stay in the mass
market, they sneak into hybridizing efforts. There are plenty of 'unknown'
parentage in the hybrid registry, and it makes for interesting discussions
about whether a plant truly is what it purports to be. But rememeber it
limits the ability for someone to remake a cross with better parentage as
breeding lines improve if they are dealing with 'unknowns'.

K Barrett

"Louis Ablazzo" wrote in message
...


May I ask why changing names is such a big deal? after all, the people
who create new hybrids are supposed to do their research anyway.
Changing names wont mean hybridization becomes suddenly more difficult.
The plants are the same. I think it is very unlikely that commercial
growers and serious hobbyists suddenly will stop hybridization just
because the name of the crosses is different.

And as for the nurseries selling unregistered hybrids. it's nothing new
or a big deal after all. Those plants are marketed for mass consumption
as decorative plants. Many growers don't care about AOS awards or RHS
registration, they just want to produce as many blooming plants as they
can for valentine's, mother's day, etc. And most consumers don't care
about tags either, nor should they be required. Again I fail to see how
these changes will make any difference.




--
Louis Ablazzo



  #39   Report Post  
Old 11-08-2007, 05:07 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Posts: 158
Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Louis: Obviously, new hybrids will continue to be made, but some percentage
of the folks who have been doing it till now are going to decide it's just
too much trouble. K's point about attempted re-makes is quite valid (take a
look at the "family tree" of Blc. Goldenzelle, for example, and then picture
it after all the name changes ...). But I think more would-be hybridizers
would rather make a *new* cross (so they can name it, or in the case of a
commercial grower, so that they can have an "exclusive," etc.). Trying to
determine that one's proposed cross does not already exist, under some name
or another, is going to be a LOT more difficult. Kenni


"Louis Ablazzo" wrote in message
...

Kenni Judd;738223 Wrote:
IMHO, they are effectively "lost" now, because they will be so difficult
to
use -- esp. for planning purposes (breeding new hybrids). I predict an

overall decrease in the number of new hybrids made -- dabblers, who
have
made some really nice ones, will decide it's too much trouble -- and of

those still produced, a great increase in "trade names" like that Den.
Emma
White. It isn't only Taiwan and Thailand who have begun to rebel, I
see
more and more US nurseries selling unregistered hybrids, with and
without
awards.


May I ask why changing names is such a big deal? after all, the people
who create new hybrids are supposed to do their research anyway.
Changing names wont mean hybridization becomes suddenly more difficult.
The plants are the same. I think it is very unlikely that commercial
growers and serious hobbyists suddenly will stop hybridization just
because the name of the crosses is different.

And as for the nurseries selling unregistered hybrids. it's nothing new
or a big deal after all. Those plants are marketed for mass consumption
as decorative plants. Many growers don't care about AOS awards or RHS
registration, they just want to produce as many blooming plants as they
can for valentine's, mother's day, etc. And most consumers don't care
about tags either, nor should they be required. Again I fail to see how
these changes will make any difference.




--
Louis Ablazzo
[/color]


  #40   Report Post  
Old 12-08-2007, 11:46 PM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Posts: 95
Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Hi Diana,

Let me through in my two cents.

It must be time for money grant among the PHD's. Every time it happens we
get these kind of change. Now I like change, but I tend to measure change in
terms of 'VALUE ADD'. As far as I can see, the only value add is to the book
and data base suppliers so they can sell more books.
I really get upset at these 'academic make work projects' and the resulting
trouble they cause.

Roy


"Diana Kulaga" wrote in message
...
Get ready for mass confusion. I rec'd the following today from Alex at
OrchidWiz. I can post this as originally rec'd if you like. I converted it
to plain text for this ng, so the links are not showing. Aren't orchid
people insane enough on our own without the Taxos piling on?

DK

OrchidWiz Alert: Name Changes

We would like to bring to your attention a recent change in genus names in
the International Register of Orchid Hybrids maintained by the RHS. The
change stems from the separation of Rhyncholaelia from Brassavola;
Guarianthe from Cattleya; the change from Brazilian Laelias to

Sophronites;
and the separation of Schomburgkia into Myrmecophila and Laelia.

The changes to Laeliinae species caused a massive domino effect throughout
hybrid nomenclature, impacting many thousands of crosses. The

transformation
is drastic and inescapable. To give you some examples of popular hybrids
affected:

Brassolaeliocattleya Goldenzelle in now Rhynchosophrocattleya Goldenzelle
(click link to see)
Sophrolaeliocattleya Hazel Boyd is now Guarisophleya Hazel Boyd
Cattleytonia Why Not is now Guaritonia Why Not
Laeliocattleya Trick or Treat is now Sophranthe Trick or Treat
Cattleya Chocolate Drop is now Cattlianthe Chocolate Drop
Brassocattleya Maikai is now Brassanthe Maikai
Brassolaeliocattleya Momilani Rainbow is now Thwaitesara Momilani Rainbow
Brassolaelia Morning Glory is now Brassonitis Morning Glory
Brassolaeliocattleya Golden Tang is now Marriottara Golden Tang
Epilaeliocattleya Don Herman is now Epicatanthe Don Herman
Otaara Jane Fumiye is now Peetersara Jane Fumiye
The new nomenclature in effect obsoletes all currently-published orchid
databases. OrchidWiz has already incorporated the changes into

Encyclopedia
4.01 (the September update) which will start shipping in the next few

days.
The new version will include thousands of new registrations as well as the
June AQ. Please note all existing awards, contributed photos and other
historical data will remain under the old names which will be "aliased"
(linked) to the new names.

If you subscribe to the Annual Maintenance Plan you will be receiving the
update in the mail within a week or two. From now on we are holding all

new
orders of 4.0 (or upgrades to 4.0) until the new software ships.

We thank you for your patience on this matter. If you have questions,
comments or concerns, please contact .

Best wishes,

- The team at OrchidWiz







  #41   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2007, 12:20 AM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Posts: 158
Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Alex will work HARD for any extra $$ he makes! Economy Label Sales and its
competitors, OTOH ... Kenni

"Roy" wrote in message
...

SNIPAs far as I can see, the only value add is to the book
and data base suppliers so they can sell more books.
I really get upset at these 'academic make work projects' and the
resulting
trouble they cause.

Roy



  #42   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2007, 12:40 AM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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Posts: 296
Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Alex, given his druthers, I suspect would rather not have this extra work.

Diana

"Kenni Judd" wrote in message
...
Alex will work HARD for any extra $$ he makes! Economy Label Sales and
its competitors, OTOH ... Kenni

"Roy" wrote in message
...

SNIPAs far as I can see, the only value add is to the book
and data base suppliers so they can sell more books.
I really get upset at these 'academic make work projects' and the
resulting
trouble they cause.

Roy





  #43   Report Post  
Old 13-08-2007, 04:26 AM posted to rec.gardens.orchids
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First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 48
Default Taxo troubles. Chaos ahead.

Ordinarily I'd be compassionate but as I grow Australian orchids I
have an insatiable desire to chuckle in a 'Let's see how you like it!'
kind of way :-)


On Aug 8, 9:53 am, "Diana Kulaga" wrote:
Get ready for mass confusion. I rec'd the following today from Alex at
OrchidWiz. I can post this as originally rec'd if you like. I converted it
to plain text for this ng, so the links are not showing. Aren't orchid
people insane enough on our own without the Taxos piling on?

DK

OrchidWiz Alert: Name Changes

We would like to bring to your attention a recent change in genus names in
the International Register of Orchid Hybrids maintained by the RHS. The
change stems from the separation of Rhyncholaelia from Brassavola;
Guarianthe from Cattleya; the change from Brazilian Laelias to Sophronites;
and the separation of Schomburgkia into Myrmecophila and Laelia.

The changes to Laeliinae species caused a massive domino effect throughout
hybrid nomenclature, impacting many thousands of crosses. The transformation
is drastic and inescapable. To give you some examples of popular hybrids
affected:

Brassolaeliocattleya Goldenzelle in now Rhynchosophrocattleya Goldenzelle
(click link to see)
Sophrolaeliocattleya Hazel Boyd is now Guarisophleya Hazel Boyd
Cattleytonia Why Not is now Guaritonia Why Not
Laeliocattleya Trick or Treat is now Sophranthe Trick or Treat
Cattleya Chocolate Drop is now Cattlianthe Chocolate Drop
Brassocattleya Maikai is now Brassanthe Maikai
Brassolaeliocattleya Momilani Rainbow is now Thwaitesara Momilani Rainbow
Brassolaelia Morning Glory is now Brassonitis Morning Glory
Brassolaeliocattleya Golden Tang is now Marriottara Golden Tang
Epilaeliocattleya Don Herman is now Epicatanthe Don Herman
Otaara Jane Fumiye is now Peetersara Jane Fumiye
The new nomenclature in effect obsoletes all currently-published orchid
databases. OrchidWiz has already incorporated the changes into Encyclopedia
4.01 (the September update) which will start shipping in the next few days.
The new version will include thousands of new registrations as well as the
June AQ. Please note all existing awards, contributed photos and other
historical data will remain under the old names which will be "aliased"
(linked) to the new names.

If you subscribe to the Annual Maintenance Plan you will be receiving the
update in the mail within a week or two. From now on we are holding all new
orders of 4.0 (or upgrades to 4.0) until the new software ships.

We thank you for your patience on this matter. If you have questions,
comments or concerns, please contact .

Best wishes,

- The team at OrchidWiz



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