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[email protected] 09-12-2008 09:02 PM

aos membership redux
 
it's that time of year......

Average total distribution per issue during preceding 12 months
(including free copies) of Orchids:

2004 = 24312
2005 = 22574
2006 = 20863
2007 = 18010

2008 = 17339

i picked the high number; it might actually be less than that.

--j_a

K Barrett 09-12-2008 09:50 PM

aos membership redux
 
wrote in message
...
it's that time of year......

Average total distribution per issue during preceding 12 months
(including free copies) of Orchids:

2004 = 24312
2005 = 22574
2006 = 20863
2007 = 18010

2008 = 17339

i picked the high number; it might actually be less than that.

--j_a


Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett



[email protected] 10-12-2008 09:13 PM

aos membership redux
 


Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. *At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett


i agree; i had suggested in one of their surveys that they add more
technical stuff to it, and they seem to have done that.

--j_a

Diana Kulaga[_5_] 10-12-2008 11:12 PM

aos membership redux
 
The web site is much better, too. Really, they have been trying hard and
doing some great stuff.

Diana

wrote in message
...


Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett


i agree; i had suggested in one of their surveys that they add more
technical stuff to it, and they seem to have done that.

--j_a



tenman 11-12-2008 03:43 AM

aos membership redux
 
Diana Kulaga wrote:
The web site is much better, too. Really, they have been trying hard and
doing some great stuff.

Diana

wrote in message
...


Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett



i agree; i had suggested in one of their surveys that they add more
technical stuff to it, and they seem to have done that.

--j_a


I had an interesting discussion with Linda Wilhelm who is on the AOS
judging committee, last year. She was encouraging me to return to the
fold after having dropped my AOS membership a few years back in the mass
exodus.

I used the analogy of a divorced person who is assured the ex-spouse has
changed and urged to re-unite with them. I said it took quite a few
years to alienate me, after so many years of membership, to the point
that, after a number of years of submitting objections, suggestions, and
complaints, I finally 'divorced' the AOS. And it will take quite a while
to convince me that I should re-join.

Not trying to be unnecessarily negative, but they'll just have to prove
it and that will probably take a decade at least. And a lot of
institutional change and re-direction that I don't see yet.

While I hear a lot of words proclaiming they have changed, I have yet to
see the proof. Anyone can say "we've changed!" The mag is marginally
better but still nothing like the fine Journal.

As for the website, they deliberately destroyed a cherished community
because they didn't like hearing criticism. I don't think they can ever
put Humpty Dumpty together there again. There are many orchid forums
now, all offering pretty much the same things (and none of them seem to
have that 'community' the old AOS site had) and most more interesting
that the AOS's.

Pat Brennan[_3_] 11-12-2008 11:40 AM

aos membership redux
 
I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same. Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on the
east coast and in the last year three different nonjudge members have told
me they would not be AOS members if they were not already lifetime members.
In the backrooms away from the public and the judges, vendors are bitching
about receiving awards. Seems some would rather take there spouse to dinner
than pay for an award. The committees tasked to fix this mess are made of
the very members that created it in the first place. I do not see real
change coming anytime soon and I am afraid that a decade is optimistic. I
wonder how long they are going to be able to carry that building.



[email protected] 11-12-2008 07:01 PM

aos membership redux
 
....did i mention i no longer pay for my AOS membership? it's a
gift. :)

dunno if i'd still be a member if i had to pay for it myself, despite
the improvements to the magazine...


--j_a

tenman 12-12-2008 04:59 AM

aos membership redux
 
Pat Brennan wrote:
I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same. Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on the
east coast


I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and
perhaps now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally
'divorced' from the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society
I try to focus on what's best for the society and not let my own
personal feelings influence society policy. So I'm looking for empirical
information about the issue.

Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many
vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially
without AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local
society. I know the majority of our members are newer growers and not
only don't belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly
aware of what it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS
involvement. In hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and
gift coupons, donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a
substantial figure to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to
wonder if it's all necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get
as many vendors and as many other society exhibits as currently with the
AOS-judged show.

Anybody know?

[email protected] 12-12-2008 03:47 PM

aos membership redux
 
(as a member of a non affliated society, i'm interested in folks'
thoughts on this too.... one day someone is going to move that we
affiliate, and i just don't know whether it's worth anything to us at
this point.)

--j_a

tenman 12-12-2008 06:13 PM

aos membership redux
 
wrote:
(as a member of a non affliated society, i'm interested in folks'
thoughts on this too.... one day someone is going to move that we
affiliate, and i just don't know whether it's worth anything to us at
this point.)

--j_a

Well, you're just the kind of person I'm asking.....SO, does YOUR
society have successful shows? Lots of vendors, traffic, other society
exhibits????

[email protected] 12-12-2008 11:19 PM

aos membership redux
 
we're not there yet--we only have informational shows, and only the
one so far. however, we had good traffic considering it was snowing
out; got 50 new people on our mailing list. (our co president (who
has many society and a few aos awards under his belt) judged--my keiki
from Al's keiki monster won 2d place in the phals. hee!) also IIRC,
our club's display won a prize in the NCOS show a few months ago, and
i think some individual plants won as well.

we have some members who found the affiliated societies to be too
formal, so they come to us. we're very laid back. :) but we've had
several good speakers so far; we can even start to afford to pay them
once we get the dues in next month, and we're going to make another
push for new members. so from where i'm sitting, i can't see the
point in affiliating. but i may not know enough about the benefits of
affiliating. based on the drop off in membership, it looks like AOS
may need my club more than my club needs it.

--j_a

Diana Kulaga[_5_] 12-12-2008 11:30 PM

aos membership redux
 
"tenman" wrote in message
...
Pat Brennan wrote:
I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same.
Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on
the
east coast


I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and perhaps
now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally 'divorced' from
the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society I try to focus on
what's best for the society and not let my own personal feelings influence
society policy. So I'm looking for empirical information about the issue.

Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many
vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially without
AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local society. I
know the majority of our members are newer growers and not only don't
belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly aware of what
it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS involvement. In
hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and gift coupons,
donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a substantial figure
to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to wonder if it's all
necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get as many vendors and
as many other society exhibits as currently with the AOS-judged show.

Anybody know?


Let me take a stab at answering your queestion, Tennis.

Our local Society is, and has been for quite some time, AOS affiliated. Let
me state right up front that there has been *zero* talk of changing that
status. I doubt that anyone has seriously considered it. So my reply is
based on my own observations over the past several years.

Some background first. Our membership (about 150 now) is very diverse. We
have experts, newbies and everything in between. On the Treasure Coast, ours
is the only show at which the other societies are invited to install 100 sf
floor displays. Everyone else asks for table displays of one size or
another. In 2009 our vendor list will be around 20 strong. Not absolutely
certain of the number yet; I am not in charge of that.

Let's talk about participation first. Some of our seasoned growers very much
value AOS recognition. They would not be as inclined to schlep specimen
plants for ribbon judging done by society members. Since theirs are
generally the finest plants, that would likely leave a hole.

The other societies would be less likely to go through the routine of
assembling those big floor displays if they (and the plants) were not AOS
judged. Personally, neither would I.

A few years ago, one of the area societies, out of necessity, put on a show
that was not AOS judged. They had members *judge* the displays and plants.
There was an awful lot of bellyaching, though it didn't come from our
people. Having the AOS stamp on things generally eliminates the muttering.

For the newbies, having a plant chosen by the AOS judges to receive a ribbon
(and they never expect it) is often the stimulus they need to become more
active. It's a validation of sorts.

So, how does all that apply to your questions? Pretty simple. One of the big
draws for us is those floor displays. They are the first thing people see
when they walk in the door. Customers linger at them, often before even
hitting the vendor booths.

So, if we eliminate the impetus for participants to bring in their special
plants and put up those big displays, we disappoint a lot of our attendees.
We also take away the impetus for newbies to bring in their stuff. So, you
have less plants over all. And this is not to mention the education members
get by clerking for the judges. I've seen people go from "I don't know
enough" to "I'm learning a lot!" in the blink of an eye.

Bottom line is, I don't think our show would be as vibrant or well attended
if it were not AOS judged. As far as the vendors are concerned, what they
care about is attendance. Few of them care so much for awards at this point.
Less attendance, less sales, fewer vendors in the future, and it becomes a
circular firing squad.

Perhaps this is unique to my area, but that is our experience.

Diana




Diana Kulaga[_5_] 12-12-2008 11:50 PM

aos membership redux
 
Funny what you said about AOS affiliated societies being so formal, JA. We
are not in that category at all. Yes, we have plenty of structure, but we're
not buttoned down, if you know what I mean.

It's a very friendly, welcoming group. And the refreshments are generally
pretty good, too!

Diana

wrote in message
...
we're not there yet--we only have informational shows, and only the
one so far. however, we had good traffic considering it was snowing
out; got 50 new people on our mailing list. (our co president (who
has many society and a few aos awards under his belt) judged--my keiki
from Al's keiki monster won 2d place in the phals. hee!) also IIRC,
our club's display won a prize in the NCOS show a few months ago, and
i think some individual plants won as well.

we have some members who found the affiliated societies to be too
formal, so they come to us. we're very laid back. :) but we've had
several good speakers so far; we can even start to afford to pay them
once we get the dues in next month, and we're going to make another
push for new members. so from where i'm sitting, i can't see the
point in affiliating. but i may not know enough about the benefits of
affiliating. based on the drop off in membership, it looks like AOS
may need my club more than my club needs it.

--j_a




Chris Savas 13-12-2008 12:21 AM

aos membership redux
 
In article , "Diana Kulaga" wrote:
"tenman" wrote in message
...
Pat Brennan wrote:
I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same.
Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on
the
east coast


I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and perhaps
now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally 'divorced' from
the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society I try to focus on
what's best for the society and not let my own personal feelings influence
society policy. So I'm looking for empirical information about the issue.

Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many
vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially without
AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local society. I
know the majority of our members are newer growers and not only don't
belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly aware of what
it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS involvement. In
hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and gift coupons,
donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a substantial figure
to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to wonder if it's all
necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get as many vendors and
as many other society exhibits as currently with the AOS-judged show.

Anybody know?


Let me take a stab at answering your queestion, Tennis.

Our local Society is, and has been for quite some time, AOS affiliated. Let
me state right up front that there has been *zero* talk of changing that
status. I doubt that anyone has seriously considered it. So my reply is
based on my own observations over the past several years.

Some background first. Our membership (about 150 now) is very diverse. We
have experts, newbies and everything in between. On the Treasure Coast, ours
is the only show at which the other societies are invited to install 100 sf
floor displays. Everyone else asks for table displays of one size or
another. In 2009 our vendor list will be around 20 strong. Not absolutely
certain of the number yet; I am not in charge of that.

Let's talk about participation first. Some of our seasoned growers very much
value AOS recognition. They would not be as inclined to schlep specimen
plants for ribbon judging done by society members. Since theirs are
generally the finest plants, that would likely leave a hole.

The other societies would be less likely to go through the routine of
assembling those big floor displays if they (and the plants) were not AOS
judged. Personally, neither would I.

A few years ago, one of the area societies, out of necessity, put on a show
that was not AOS judged. They had members *judge* the displays and plants.
There was an awful lot of bellyaching, though it didn't come from our
people. Having the AOS stamp on things generally eliminates the muttering.

For the newbies, having a plant chosen by the AOS judges to receive a ribbon
(and they never expect it) is often the stimulus they need to become more
active. It's a validation of sorts.

So, how does all that apply to your questions? Pretty simple. One of the big
draws for us is those floor displays. They are the first thing people see
when they walk in the door. Customers linger at them, often before even
hitting the vendor booths.

So, if we eliminate the impetus for participants to bring in their special
plants and put up those big displays, we disappoint a lot of our attendees.
We also take away the impetus for newbies to bring in their stuff. So, you
have less plants over all. And this is not to mention the education members
get by clerking for the judges. I've seen people go from "I don't know
enough" to "I'm learning a lot!" in the blink of an eye.

Bottom line is, I don't think our show would be as vibrant or well attended
if it were not AOS judged. As far as the vendors are concerned, what they
care about is attendance. Few of them care so much for awards at this point.
Less attendance, less sales, fewer vendors in the future, and it becomes a
circular firing squad.

Perhaps this is unique to my area, but that is our experience.

Diana



As for me, I have renewed my membership once again (after more than 25 years).
Yet I do flinch at the membership fee now, $60.

On the matter of shows that are AOS judged, I find that they are valuable in
that you see what 'quality' looks like when you see a plant with a ribbon or
even a certificate, e.g., 'Best . . . . . . in Show' , let alone an AOS award.

I have attended a couple of 'not AOS judged shows' this year. My own reaction
was a bit of a let down. There were lots of people, vendors, etc, but maybe
it was my imagination that I didn't see any spectacular plants and/or
displays. Don't get me wrong, they were very nice.

But, what do I know......? Just my opinion.

Chris in Central Florida
(delete the word not from address to respond directly)

Pat Brennan[_3_] 15-12-2008 11:12 AM

aos membership redux
 
If we are talking ribbonned shows, I agree with Diana. I would even say
that you would be insane to attempt a ribbonned show without the support of
AOS judges. There is just too much learned knowledge about judging shows,
too many tried rules and schedules, and just too much raw man and woman
power that comes with the AOS judges. Tennis, if you do not understand what
I am trying to say, I highly recommend that you hang out at a couple of
shows from the time registration opens until the start of the preview party.
It will blow your mind; the work, the lost nights sleep, and the skill,
experience, and the dedication of the various people making it happen. I
think you would have more fun repeatedly hitting your thumb with a hammer
than producing a ribbonned show with out the support of AOS judging.

There is nothing that says you show has to be ribbonned, but it would not be
what most of us think of as an orchid show. That is not a bad thing.
Orchids shows are having a hard time right now and maybe a society thinking
outside of the box could come up with a very successful format.

Pat




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