aos membership redux
 

it's that time of year......

Average total distribution per issue during preceding 12 months
(including free copies) of Orchids:

2004 = 24312
2005 = 22574
2006 = 20863
2007 = 18010

2008 = 17339

i picked the high number; it might actually be less than that.

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

wrote in message
...
it's that time of year......

Average total distribution per issue during preceding 12 months
(including free copies) of Orchids:

2004 = 24312
2005 = 22574
2006 = 20863
2007 = 18010

2008 = 17339

i picked the high number; it might actually be less than that.

--j_a

Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett

aos membership redux
 

Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. *At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett

i agree; i had suggested in one of their surveys that they add more
technical stuff to it, and they seem to have done that.

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

The web site is much better, too. Really, they have been trying hard and
doing some great stuff.

Diana

wrote in message
...


Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett

i agree; i had suggested in one of their surveys that they add more
technical stuff to it, and they seem to have done that.

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

Diana Kulaga wrote:
The web site is much better, too. Really, they have been trying hard and
doing some great stuff.

Diana

wrote in message
...


Pity, becasue the magazine has gotten better. At least imho and fwiw.

K Barrett


i agree; i had suggested in one of their surveys that they add more
technical stuff to it, and they seem to have done that.

--j_a


I had an interesting discussion with Linda Wilhelm who is on the AOS
judging committee, last year. She was encouraging me to return to the
fold after having dropped my AOS membership a few years back in the mass
exodus.

I used the analogy of a divorced person who is assured the ex-spouse has
changed and urged to re-unite with them. I said it took quite a few
years to alienate me, after so many years of membership, to the point
that, after a number of years of submitting objections, suggestions, and
complaints, I finally 'divorced' the AOS. And it will take quite a while
to convince me that I should re-join.

Not trying to be unnecessarily negative, but they'll just have to prove
it and that will probably take a decade at least. And a lot of
institutional change and re-direction that I don't see yet.

While I hear a lot of words proclaiming they have changed, I have yet to
see the proof. Anyone can say "we've changed!" The mag is marginally
better but still nothing like the fine Journal.

As for the website, they deliberately destroyed a cherished community
because they didn't like hearing criticism. I don't think they can ever
put Humpty Dumpty together there again. There are many orchid forums
now, all offering pretty much the same things (and none of them seem to
have that 'community' the old AOS site had) and most more interesting
that the AOS's.

aos membership redux
 

I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same. Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on the
east coast and in the last year three different nonjudge members have told
me they would not be AOS members if they were not already lifetime members.
In the backrooms away from the public and the judges, vendors are bitching
about receiving awards. Seems some would rather take there spouse to dinner
than pay for an award. The committees tasked to fix this mess are made of
the very members that created it in the first place. I do not see real
change coming anytime soon and I am afraid that a decade is optimistic. I
wonder how long they are going to be able to carry that building.

aos membership redux
 

....did i mention i no longer pay for my AOS membership? it's a
gift. :)

dunno if i'd still be a member if i had to pay for it myself, despite
the improvements to the magazine...


--j_a

aos membership redux
 

Pat Brennan wrote:
I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same. Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on the
east coast

I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and
perhaps now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally
'divorced' from the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society
I try to focus on what's best for the society and not let my own
personal feelings influence society policy. So I'm looking for empirical
information about the issue.

Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many
vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially
without AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local
society. I know the majority of our members are newer growers and not
only don't belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly
aware of what it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS
involvement. In hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and
gift coupons, donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a
substantial figure to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to
wonder if it's all necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get
as many vendors and as many other society exhibits as currently with the
AOS-judged show.

Anybody know?

aos membership redux
 

(as a member of a non affliated society, i'm interested in folks'
thoughts on this too.... one day someone is going to move that we
affiliate, and i just don't know whether it's worth anything to us at
this point.)

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

aos membership redux
 

we're not there yet--we only have informational shows, and only the
one so far. however, we had good traffic considering it was snowing
out; got 50 new people on our mailing list. (our co president (who
has many society and a few aos awards under his belt) judged--my keiki
from Al's keiki monster won 2d place in the phals. hee!) also IIRC,
our club's display won a prize in the NCOS show a few months ago, and
i think some individual plants won as well.

we have some members who found the affiliated societies to be too
formal, so they come to us. we're very laid back. :) but we've had
several good speakers so far; we can even start to afford to pay them
once we get the dues in next month, and we're going to make another
push for new members. so from where i'm sitting, i can't see the
point in affiliating. but i may not know enough about the benefits of
affiliating. based on the drop off in membership, it looks like AOS
may need my club more than my club needs it.

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

"tenman" wrote in message
...
Pat Brennan wrote:
I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same.
Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on
the
east coast

I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and perhaps
now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally 'divorced' from
the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society I try to focus on
what's best for the society and not let my own personal feelings influence
society policy. So I'm looking for empirical information about the issue.

Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many
vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially without
AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local society. I
know the majority of our members are newer growers and not only don't
belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly aware of what
it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS involvement. In
hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and gift coupons,
donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a substantial figure
to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to wonder if it's all
necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get as many vendors and
as many other society exhibits as currently with the AOS-judged show.

Anybody know?

Let me take a stab at answering your queestion, Tennis.

Our local Society is, and has been for quite some time, AOS affiliated. Let
me state right up front that there has been *zero* talk of changing that
status. I doubt that anyone has seriously considered it. So my reply is
based on my own observations over the past several years.

Some background first. Our membership (about 150 now) is very diverse. We
have experts, newbies and everything in between. On the Treasure Coast, ours
is the only show at which the other societies are invited to install 100 sf
floor displays. Everyone else asks for table displays of one size or
another. In 2009 our vendor list will be around 20 strong. Not absolutely
certain of the number yet; I am not in charge of that.

Let's talk about participation first. Some of our seasoned growers very much
value AOS recognition. They would not be as inclined to schlep specimen
plants for ribbon judging done by society members. Since theirs are
generally the finest plants, that would likely leave a hole.

The other societies would be less likely to go through the routine of
assembling those big floor displays if they (and the plants) were not AOS
judged. Personally, neither would I.

A few years ago, one of the area societies, out of necessity, put on a show
that was not AOS judged. They had members *judge* the displays and plants.
There was an awful lot of bellyaching, though it didn't come from our
people. Having the AOS stamp on things generally eliminates the muttering.

For the newbies, having a plant chosen by the AOS judges to receive a ribbon
(and they never expect it) is often the stimulus they need to become more
active. It's a validation of sorts.

So, how does all that apply to your questions? Pretty simple. One of the big
draws for us is those floor displays. They are the first thing people see
when they walk in the door. Customers linger at them, often before even
hitting the vendor booths.

So, if we eliminate the impetus for participants to bring in their special
plants and put up those big displays, we disappoint a lot of our attendees.
We also take away the impetus for newbies to bring in their stuff. So, you
have less plants over all. And this is not to mention the education members
get by clerking for the judges. I've seen people go from "I don't know
enough" to "I'm learning a lot!" in the blink of an eye.

Bottom line is, I don't think our show would be as vibrant or well attended
if it were not AOS judged. As far as the vendors are concerned, what they
care about is attendance. Few of them care so much for awards at this point.
Less attendance, less sales, fewer vendors in the future, and it becomes a
circular firing squad.

Perhaps this is unique to my area, but that is our experience.

Diana

aos membership redux
 

Funny what you said about AOS affiliated societies being so formal, JA. We
are not in that category at all. Yes, we have plenty of structure, but we're
not buttoned down, if you know what I mean.

It's a very friendly, welcoming group. And the refreshments are generally
pretty good, too!

Diana

wrote in message
...
we're not there yet--we only have informational shows, and only the
one so far. however, we had good traffic considering it was snowing
out; got 50 new people on our mailing list. (our co president (who
has many society and a few aos awards under his belt) judged--my keiki
from Al's keiki monster won 2d place in the phals. hee!) also IIRC,
our club's display won a prize in the NCOS show a few months ago, and
i think some individual plants won as well.

we have some members who found the affiliated societies to be too
formal, so they come to us. we're very laid back. :) but we've had
several good speakers so far; we can even start to afford to pay them
once we get the dues in next month, and we're going to make another
push for new members. so from where i'm sitting, i can't see the
point in affiliating. but i may not know enough about the benefits of
affiliating. based on the drop off in membership, it looks like AOS
may need my club more than my club needs it.

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

In article , "Diana Kulaga" wrote:
"tenman" wrote in message
...
Pat Brennan wrote:
I like the divorce analogy. It has been both sad and funny watching the
judges trying to recruit (bring back into the fold) commercial growers.
Carlos is as good a person as you will find anywhere and the AOS has been
lucky to have him, but it has not been change, just more of the same.
Over
the last year or so the 'NO AOS Judging' signs have started appearing on
the
east coast

I posed a question last year that I received scant answer to, and perhaps
now is a good time to revisit it. While I am personally 'divorced' from
the AOS, as president of my local AOS-affiliated society I try to focus on
what's best for the society and not let my own personal feelings influence
society policy. So I'm looking for empirical information about the issue.

Are local orchid societies able to have shows as successful (as many
vendors, as much attendance and the same bottom line financially without
AOS involvement? I have considered the options for my own local society. I
know the majority of our members are newer growers and not only don't
belong to or owe any loyalty to the AOS, they are only dimly aware of what
it is and would feel no loss at all if we were to drop AOS involvement. In
hard times, when AOS membership, judges' luncheons and gift coupons,
donations to judging centers, Orchids, AQ, etc, add a substantial figure
to the society's limited budget, it is fair game to wonder if it's all
necessary or beneficial. I just wonder if one can get as many vendors and
as many other society exhibits as currently with the AOS-judged show.

Anybody know?

Let me take a stab at answering your queestion, Tennis.

Our local Society is, and has been for quite some time, AOS affiliated. Let
me state right up front that there has been *zero* talk of changing that
status. I doubt that anyone has seriously considered it. So my reply is
based on my own observations over the past several years.

Some background first. Our membership (about 150 now) is very diverse. We
have experts, newbies and everything in between. On the Treasure Coast, ours
is the only show at which the other societies are invited to install 100 sf
floor displays. Everyone else asks for table displays of one size or
another. In 2009 our vendor list will be around 20 strong. Not absolutely
certain of the number yet; I am not in charge of that.

Let's talk about participation first. Some of our seasoned growers very much
value AOS recognition. They would not be as inclined to schlep specimen
plants for ribbon judging done by society members. Since theirs are
generally the finest plants, that would likely leave a hole.

The other societies would be less likely to go through the routine of
assembling those big floor displays if they (and the plants) were not AOS
judged. Personally, neither would I.

A few years ago, one of the area societies, out of necessity, put on a show
that was not AOS judged. They had members *judge* the displays and plants.
There was an awful lot of bellyaching, though it didn't come from our
people. Having the AOS stamp on things generally eliminates the muttering.

For the newbies, having a plant chosen by the AOS judges to receive a ribbon
(and they never expect it) is often the stimulus they need to become more
active. It's a validation of sorts.

So, how does all that apply to your questions? Pretty simple. One of the big
draws for us is those floor displays. They are the first thing people see
when they walk in the door. Customers linger at them, often before even
hitting the vendor booths.

So, if we eliminate the impetus for participants to bring in their special
plants and put up those big displays, we disappoint a lot of our attendees.
We also take away the impetus for newbies to bring in their stuff. So, you
have less plants over all. And this is not to mention the education members
get by clerking for the judges. I've seen people go from "I don't know
enough" to "I'm learning a lot!" in the blink of an eye.

Bottom line is, I don't think our show would be as vibrant or well attended
if it were not AOS judged. As far as the vendors are concerned, what they
care about is attendance. Few of them care so much for awards at this point.
Less attendance, less sales, fewer vendors in the future, and it becomes a
circular firing squad.

Perhaps this is unique to my area, but that is our experience.

Diana



As for me, I have renewed my membership once again (after more than 25 years).
Yet I do flinch at the membership fee now, $60.

On the matter of shows that are AOS judged, I find that they are valuable in
that you see what 'quality' looks like when you see a plant with a ribbon or
even a certificate, e.g., 'Best . . . . . . in Show' , let alone an AOS award.

I have attended a couple of 'not AOS judged shows' this year. My own reaction
was a bit of a let down. There were lots of people, vendors, etc, but maybe
it was my imagination that I didn't see any spectacular plants and/or
displays. Don't get me wrong, they were very nice.

But, what do I know......? Just my opinion.

Chris in Central Florida
(delete the word not from address to respond directly)

aos membership redux
 

If we are talking ribbonned shows, I agree with Diana. I would even say
that you would be insane to attempt a ribbonned show without the support of
AOS judges. There is just too much learned knowledge about judging shows,
too many tried rules and schedules, and just too much raw man and woman
power that comes with the AOS judges. Tennis, if you do not understand what
I am trying to say, I highly recommend that you hang out at a couple of
shows from the time registration opens until the start of the preview party.
It will blow your mind; the work, the lost nights sleep, and the skill,
experience, and the dedication of the various people making it happen. I
think you would have more fun repeatedly hitting your thumb with a hammer
than producing a ribbonned show with out the support of AOS judging.

There is nothing that says you show has to be ribbonned, but it would not be
what most of us think of as an orchid show. That is not a bad thing.
Orchids shows are having a hard time right now and maybe a society thinking
outside of the box could come up with a very successful format.

Pat

aos membership redux
 

"Pat Brennan" wrote in message
g.com...

. . . Tennis, if you do not understand what I am trying to say, I highly
recommend that you hang out at a couple of shows from the time
registration opens until the start of the preview party.


Tenman, sorry about that.

aos membership redux
 

Pat Brennan wrote:
If we are talking ribbonned shows, I agree with Diana. I would even say
that you would be insane to attempt a ribbonned show without the support of
AOS judges. There is just too much learned knowledge about judging shows,
too many tried rules and schedules, and just too much raw man and woman
power that comes with the AOS judges. Tennis, if you do not understand what
I am trying to say, I highly recommend that you hang out at a couple of
shows from the time registration opens until the start of the preview party.
It will blow your mind; the work, the lost nights sleep, and the skill,
experience, and the dedication of the various people making it happen. I
think you would have more fun repeatedly hitting your thumb with a hammer
than producing a ribbonned show with out the support of AOS judging.

There is nothing that says you show has to be ribbonned, but it would not be
what most of us think of as an orchid show. That is not a bad thing.
Orchids shows are having a hard time right now and maybe a society thinking
outside of the box could come up with a very successful format.

Pat


Although I appreciate the input, my focus here is in trying to find out
from people who have actual experience with such shows and whether they
have been successful, rather than evaluating the possibility in a
theoretical fashion.

Of course, such a show would include ribbon judging, easily accomplished
by experienced orchidists as it is currently done at our second show of
the year, a smaller show than our annual AOS-judged affair. I have been
involved sufficiently with shows to be familiar with the mechanics
involved in the entire judging process, and, more importantly, the expense.

Our current set-up is a full-scale show in the spring and a
smaller-scale show in the fall which we have been ramping up in
preparation to making it a second full-scale AOS-judged show. Our chief
problem has been in getting willing volunteers to set-up, clerk, and man
the various operations involved. No-one seems to be willing to do
anything anymore, and we have scaled back our plans for the second full
show and decided for now to keep it as a smaller-scale non-AOS judged
show. It has brought the entire concept of AOS membership (as a society)
and AOS judging into question. As times are hard and belts
(includingthose of organizations such as ours) tighten, all expenses are
subjuect to new scrutiny.

'Contributions' to judging centers, Orchids, AQ - and the required
laptop, expenses associated with judging (photography, judges'
luncheons, judges' coupons, etc, add up to a sizeable portion of the
organizational budget. Revenue sources are becoiming less reliable and
budgets must be evaluated with an eye at ensuring solvency.

aos membership redux
 

On Dec 15, 12:15*pm, tenman wrote:


'Contributions' to judging centers, Orchids, AQ - and the required
laptop, expenses associated with judging (photography, judges'
luncheons, judges' coupons, etc, add up to a sizeable portion of the
organizational budget. Revenue sources are becoiming less reliable and
budgets must be evaluated with an eye at ensuring solvency.



roughly how much does all that end up adding up to?

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

Hi Tenman,

I do between 35 and 40 events a year and have been doing shows for almost 20
years now. I do both judged and token ribbon/unjudged shows, of those
judged some are judged by AOS judges and some are not. My comments were not
as theoretically based as you might think. In addition, I have more of a
dog in this fight than you might realize. In the last 18 months I have lost
my two biggest shows; one to financial problems and the other as best as I
can figure because no society member came forward and made the show happen.
As a vendor I do not really care about the format, my measure of success is
what's in the pouch at the end of the show. But what plants I do bring for
show is greatly influenced by the format.

As you said, times are hard and belts tighten. I just sent a table fee
check for an up coming show. To help recover from last years losses, this
show has increased table fees, increased show admission and added an
additional vendor. I trust that with the hits the vendors are taking some
of the perks have been removed from the judging budget. I expect I will see
a vendor revolt if not. I do a small gated show. A few years back the
society decided that to continue attracting good vendors they had to drop
their commission from 20% to 15%. (As a gated show they knew everyone's
take.) As you might guess all budgets got slashed, they even collect
unneeded ribbons at the end of the show for next year use. Judges perks at
this show are coffee and donuts in the morning and cold cuts and a can of
Coke at lunch. Everyone tries to bring really nice plants and getting the
judges to come has never been a problem. Most judges truly enjoy judging
plants and it is a fun show.

I could go on and on but why. Try the format and see if you guys can make
it work. If it has too many problems, meet with the local judging center to
see if there is not some sort of middle ground. Maybe you could do AOS
plant judging at some point during the show with just a small judging team.
Good luck with it and put your best people on advertising

Pat

aos membership redux
 

Janet,

I can't answer for Tennis, but I can tell you what our costs are, roughly.

Once a year, we volunteer to pay for a lunch for the judges at their WPB
center. Not all societies do it. We choose to. The cost is never more than
$100, and generally less. We don't even need to go down and deliver the
food.

As for the show, we do need to have a photographer in case of awards. I
think he got around $45/awarded plant last year. We also ask him to judge
our photo entries (we have a category for orchid photography).

I don't recall how much our hospitality budget was for the show last year,
but it was money well spent and IMO not a lot. We offer fruit & cheese,
along with soft drinks, on set up day. The other societies (not to mention
our own members) and the vendors need a break in the middle of the day. We
would do this whether the show was AOS sanctioned or not. Coffee, donuts,
bagels, fruit and whatever are available throughout the show, in the break
room. After the judges lunch, we provide the vendors with lunch on that one
day. This isn't fancy stuff, just sandwiches and side salads.

We are still getting AQ, but it is becoming less necessary with the advent
of OrchidWiz. As most now know, OW is not expensive to maintain. Anyhow,
that too is a minor expense in the grand scheme of things.

There is the cost of trophies, but we always have enough sponsors to cover
that. Many of our members sponsor trophies, and most of the vendors do as
well. Those sponsorships also pay for the AOS show trophy. If we were doing
a "society judged" show, we'd still have to pay for ribbons and rosettes.
And none of the above addresses the impartiality of the judges. I doubt that
the same could be said of lay people from the society.

Bottom line for me: the minor costs associated with having the AOS imprint
on the show are well worth it. And, it's good to remember that the judges
are UNPAID (sorry for shouting) volunteers who have spent years of
apprenticeship, again, unpaid. The least we can do is buy 'em lunch a couple
of times a year.

I know times are tough for lots of folks, and that spills over to some
societies. Fortunately, we have a steady influx of new members, and that
keeps us fresh and on our toes. It also means that many of the people who
volunteered for various jobs over the years can take a well deserved break.

Just my 2 cents, again. Well, make that a nickel.

Diana


wrote in message
...
On Dec 15, 12:15 pm, tenman wrote:


'Contributions' to judging centers, Orchids, AQ - and the required
laptop, expenses associated with judging (photography, judges'
luncheons, judges' coupons, etc, add up to a sizeable portion of the
organizational budget. Revenue sources are becoiming less reliable and
budgets must be evaluated with an eye at ensuring solvency.



roughly how much does all that end up adding up to?

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

i was all for taking our speakers out to dinner, or out for lunch
beforehand (our meetings are at three pm) but i don't know if anyone
did that....

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

Our meetings are at 1:00. We don't generally take the speakers out, but we
do have a break with refreshments, and that gives us a chance to chat.

Diana

wrote in message
...
i was all for taking our speakers out to dinner, or out for lunch
beforehand (our meetings are at three pm) but i don't know if anyone
did that....

--j_a

aos membership redux
 

aos membership redux
 

As an occasional speaker, I can tell you that it is a fairly common gesture.

--

Ray Barkalow - First Rays Orchids - www.firstrays.com
Plants, Supplies. Books, Artwork, and lots of Free Info!


wrote in message
...
i was all for taking our speakers out to dinner, or out for lunch
beforehand (our meetings are at three pm) but i don't know if anyone
did that....

--j_a