I am sending best wishes to you all during this holiday season. With so
many stresses in the world, cultivation of our orchids can point to
directions and attitudes that could benefit society as a whole. If only we
could learn the lessons nature has to teach us!

Enough of the quasi-philiosophical and on to the mundane and pragmatic. I
am trying to cut down on the use of chemicals in the greenhouse for
contolling the various pests and critters that so delight in my orchids. I
recall from a long time ago a mix which I never used of Formula 409 and
isopropyl alcohol. Thoughts regarding its efficacy, proportions,
environmental issues would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and again Happy Holidays!

Frank H. Kirchner

Best wishes to you as well, Frank. For info on natural remedies, including
soap/alcohol, try Ray's site:
http://firstrays.com/

Loads of info there.

Diana

"Frank H. Kirchner" wrote in message
...
I am sending best wishes to you all during this holiday season. With so
many stresses in the world, cultivation of our orchids can point to
directions and attitudes that could benefit society as a whole. If only we
could learn the lessons nature has to teach us!

Enough of the quasi-philiosophical and on to the mundane and pragmatic. I
am trying to cut down on the use of chemicals in the greenhouse for
contolling the various pests and critters that so delight in my orchids.
I recall from a long time ago a mix which I never used of Formula 409 and
isopropyl alcohol. Thoughts regarding its efficacy, proportions,
environmental issues would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and again Happy Holidays!

Frank H. Kirchner

"Frank H. Kirchner" wrote in message
...
I am sending best wishes to you all during this holiday season. With so
many stresses in the world, cultivation of our orchids can point to
directions and attitudes that could benefit society as a whole. If only we
could learn the lessons nature has to teach us!

Enough of the quasi-philiosophical and on to the mundane and pragmatic. I
am trying to cut down on the use of chemicals in the greenhouse for
contolling the various pests and critters that so delight in my orchids.
I recall from a long time ago a mix which I never used of Formula 409 and
isopropyl alcohol. Thoughts regarding its efficacy, proportions,
environmental issues would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and again Happy Holidays!

Frank H. Kirchner



Me too. I'm usually a better living through chemistry kind of person, but
even I am trying other means. Steve always corrects me, but if I recall
correctly it 1 part alcohol, 1 part 409 and 6 parts water. I've started
using plain of 409 and also plain old alcohol, sprayed on the plants and or
insects. Be careful not to let the straight alcohol stand in the leaf axils
of very tight plants, like tolumnias, paphs or some vandas as its very
drying. I'm amazed at how well 409 kills ants. I have no experience with
how it works on scale or mealies. I've started using horicultural oil on
scale and insecticidal soap on mealies. I assume plain old dish soap would
probably work as well. Of course if I was a commercial grower I'd use some
real insecticides and gear up with personal protective equipment for their
use.

Happy Holidays to rgo!

K Barrett

Thank you both for your input! Hopefully New Year's Day will have extra
time for orchid maintenance and cleaning. Ah the joys of midwinter!!!

Frank
"Frank H. Kirchner" wrote in message
...
I am sending best wishes to you all during this holiday season. With so
many stresses in the world, cultivation of our orchids can point to
directions and attitudes that could benefit society as a whole. If only we
could learn the lessons nature has to teach us!

Enough of the quasi-philiosophical and on to the mundane and pragmatic. I
am trying to cut down on the use of chemicals in the greenhouse for
contolling the various pests and critters that so delight in my orchids.
I recall from a long time ago a mix which I never used of Formula 409 and
isopropyl alcohol. Thoughts regarding its efficacy, proportions,
environmental issues would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and again Happy Holidays!

Frank H. Kirchner

I've been using 409 and Isopropyl alcohol for years. Denatured alchol is a
faster kill. People say "Don't use it! period". I've tried it since I'm and
incurable "Try what they say not to do and see what happens". If the plant
is in poor shape from disease or insects you can probably get it to recover
if it's worth it to you. Otherwise toss it and don't worry about the
insects. Wear gloves when using this especially if you're going to do a
bunch. Denatured alcohol is more toxic to man or beast. It's 95% dtinking
alcohol and 5% wood alcohol which is really toxic. If you wear gloves, don't
inhale for periods of time and don't drink it I really don't see much of a
problem. Plants don't seem to object. If you use isopropyl (least toxic of
the common alcohols) go for the 70% in the drug store or big box store. It
might cost a speck more but the kill rate is better for the buck. I mix 1/2
spray bottle of 409 (somewhere around 20 oz I think, I's have to check) with
1 gal of alcohol. That's about 2 oz/ pt bottle of alcohol. It use it for
weekly spot treatment between major blasts 3-4 times/ yr. Good luck.
Gary

"Frank H. Kirchner" wrote in message
...
I am sending best wishes to you all during this holiday season. With so
many stresses in the world, cultivation of our orchids can point to
directions and attitudes that could benefit society as a whole. If only we
could learn the lessons nature has to teach us!

Enough of the quasi-philiosophical and on to the mundane and pragmatic. I
am trying to cut down on the use of chemicals in the greenhouse for
contolling the various pests and critters that so delight in my orchids.
I recall from a long time ago a mix which I never used of Formula 409 and
isopropyl alcohol. Thoughts regarding its efficacy, proportions,
environmental issues would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and again Happy Holidays!

Frank H. Kirchner

I was surprised to find out that denatured alcohol has methanol in it.
Until now, I had always believed denatured alcohol was ethanol with a
bitter compound in it so it couldn't be consumed.
So I looked it up and chose to read the Wikipedia article on denatured
alcohol. Of course you are right. Methanol is one of the common ways to
make it.
Here's the funny part. You know how Wikipedia often has links to other
web sites at the bottom? One of the links was about mealybugs. I figured
I would read that and see what it said about killing mealybugs with
denatured alcohol. Sure enough, it was an article that included non
toxic ways of killing mealybugs but I couldn't spot the word alcohol
anywhere on the whole page.

Steve

v_coerulea wrote:
I've been using 409 and Isopropyl alcohol for years. Denatured alchol is a
faster kill. People say "Don't use it! period". I've tried it since I'm and
incurable "Try what they say not to do and see what happens". If the plant
is in poor shape from disease or insects you can probably get it to recover
if it's worth it to you. Otherwise toss it and don't worry about the
insects. Wear gloves when using this especially if you're going to do a
bunch. Denatured alcohol is more toxic to man or beast. It's 95% dtinking
alcohol and 5% wood alcohol which is really toxic. If you wear gloves, don't
inhale for periods of time and don't drink it I really don't see much of a
problem. Plants don't seem to object. If you use isopropyl (least toxic of
the common alcohols) go for the 70% in the drug store or big box store. It
might cost a speck more but the kill rate is better for the buck. I mix 1/2
spray bottle of 409 (somewhere around 20 oz I think, I's have to check) with
1 gal of alcohol. That's about 2 oz/ pt bottle of alcohol. It use it for
weekly spot treatment between major blasts 3-4 times/ yr. Good luck.
Gary

"Frank H. Kirchner" wrote in message
...
I am sending best wishes to you all during this holiday season. With so
many stresses in the world, cultivation of our orchids can point to
directions and attitudes that could benefit society as a whole. If only we
could learn the lessons nature has to teach us!

Enough of the quasi-philiosophical and on to the mundane and pragmatic. I
am trying to cut down on the use of chemicals in the greenhouse for
contolling the various pests and critters that so delight in my orchids.
I recall from a long time ago a mix which I never used of Formula 409 and
isopropyl alcohol. Thoughts regarding its efficacy, proportions,
environmental issues would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and again Happy Holidays!

Frank H. Kirchner

Believe me, Steve, if denatured alcohol was just bitter people would still
drink it. You don't drink scotch do you? I know, I believe most of them
belong in Scotland too. Do you add Angostura bitters to your Manhattan to
counteract the vermouth? People eat and drink bitter things the world over.
Denatured alcohol would just be one more.
Happy New Year.
Gary

"Steve" wrote in message
...
I was surprised to find out that denatured alcohol has methanol in it.
Until now, I had always believed denatured alcohol was ethanol with a
bitter compound in it so it couldn't be consumed.
So I looked it up and chose to read the Wikipedia article on denatured
alcohol. Of course you are right. Methanol is one of the common ways to
make it.
Here's the funny part. You know how Wikipedia often has links to other web
sites at the bottom? One of the links was about mealybugs. I figured I
would read that and see what it said about killing mealybugs with
denatured alcohol. Sure enough, it was an article that included non toxic
ways of killing mealybugs but I couldn't spot the word alcohol anywhere on
the whole page.

Steve

v_coerulea wrote:
I've been using 409 and Isopropyl alcohol for years. Denatured alchol is
a faster kill. People say "Don't use it! period". I've tried it since I'm
and incurable "Try what they say not to do and see what happens". If the
plant is in poor shape from disease or insects you can probably get it to
recover if it's worth it to you. Otherwise toss it and don't worry about
the insects. Wear gloves when using this especially if you're going to do
a bunch. Denatured alcohol is more toxic to man or beast. It's 95%
dtinking alcohol and 5% wood alcohol which is really toxic. If you wear
gloves, don't inhale for periods of time and don't drink it I really
don't see much of a problem. Plants don't seem to object. If you use
isopropyl (least toxic of the common alcohols) go for the 70% in the drug
store or big box store. It might cost a speck more but the kill rate is
better for the buck. I mix 1/2 spray bottle of 409 (somewhere around 20
oz I think, I's have to check) with 1 gal of alcohol. That's about 2 oz/
pt bottle of alcohol. It use it for weekly spot treatment between major
blasts 3-4 times/ yr. Good luck.
Gary

"Frank H. Kirchner" wrote in message
...
I am sending best wishes to you all during this holiday season. With so
many stresses in the world, cultivation of our orchids can point to
directions and attitudes that could benefit society as a whole. If only
we could learn the lessons nature has to teach us!

Enough of the quasi-philiosophical and on to the mundane and pragmatic.
I am trying to cut down on the use of chemicals in the greenhouse for
contolling the various pests and critters that so delight in my orchids.
I recall from a long time ago a mix which I never used of Formula 409
and isopropyl alcohol. Thoughts regarding its efficacy, proportions,
environmental issues would be appreciated.

Thank you in advance and again Happy Holidays!

Frank H. Kirchner